Kelei Routines/Advice

[fymm]

Looks awesome; should I stick with all pro or try this out?
I've been lifting on and off for the past year at maintenance. Goal is to just have a nice v-taper and a bulkier upper body.

[Qxx]

Looks awesome; should I stick with all pro or try this out?
I've been lifting on and off for the past year at maintenance. Goal is to just have a nice v-taper and a bulkier upper body.

If you're looking for muscle (which means you're hunting hypertrophy), this is the routine to use.

[Qxx]

You're the ****ing man. Thanks for all your advice/support and answering questions and private messages. Congratulations on this new and exciting chapter in your life.

Where do you recommend we pull the bar to in elbow tucked row?

In line with your elbow. Your forearms should be relaxed as much as possible when rowing. Where the bar will hit your body depends on the individual, everyone has different ratio of forearm/upper arm length.

[standalj]

Dam lol 45sec? Ive been doing iy wrong, I rest like 15sec.

It varies by person, by exercise, by volume, etc.

There are some exercises where I can pause 15 seconds between sets and others I need 30 seconds. This is when doing the 3 rep intervals and I know that a longer pause will be required to perform 5 rep intervals.

[davo26]

There's something I'd like to mention regarding muscle recruitment and EMG (as far as I can recall I've never mentioned this in my previous threads, I think it's a useful piece of information for you all). Most EMG studies employ submaximal weights and sets aren't taken to/near failure, as such I believe the results can be misleading.

Your nervous prefers to recruit motor units from smallest/slowest to largest/fastest but it also has another recruitment preference/order, it tries to recruit the motor units (and even entire muscles) with an optimal line of pull and tension/length relationship.

So for example during flat bench press at the beginning of a set using submaximal weight the nervous system might preferentially recruit the sternal portion of the pecs (due to line of pull and length/tension relationship advantages), so during the first few reps the sternal portion of the pecs will be working harder than the clavicular portion, relatively speaking. However things change as fatigue sets in and you start getting closer to failure, because the sternal head was preferentially recruited earlier in the set it also means that it'll fatigue earlier than the clavicular head, so what ends up happening is that as the sternal head fatigues the nervous system starts calling the clavicular head into action more and more in order to offset the reduced force generation of the sternal head.

Performing only 5 reps with a 10RM during an EMG test will show higher average sternal head activity when averaged over the entire set compared with the clavicular head, if the set was taken to failure the average sternal/clavicular activity ratio would be more balanced because the clavicular head was given the opportunity to "kick in" near the end of the set.

Now of course this applies to all exercises, during tricep pressdowns the lateral head might start the set with higher activity than the long head but as the lateral head fatigues the long head will progressively become more and more active to compensate for the reduced force output of the fatiguing lateral head.

It also applies to seperate muscles entirely (assuming they share a function), for example as the brachialis fatigues biceps recruitment will increase and vice versa, this is why I don't bother performing seperate brachialis and bicep exercises, any elbow flexion exercise performed near/to failure will eventually annihilate the both of them.

ok, heres a possibly far too technical question being asked by someone who doesnt understand the science behind it at all, but just accepts youre right at all times :-D........

am i right in assuming that because both areas of the muscle are worked over the 10 reps, thats good and will result in ideal muscle growth? because if so, then doesnt the rest/pause aspect of the workout then just promote bigger growth in only one area? so written differently, a triceps exercise could maybe be seen as 10 reps (lat then long head), 4 (just long), 4 (just long), 4 (just long), 4 (just long), 4 (just long) etc etc. you see where im going with that? the lateral head only being worked in the first set?
and flat bench would be sternal/clavicular, clavicular, clavicular, clavicular etc?
so i spose im asking wouldnt you get a fuller chest from 3 X 10 rather than just the 'last part of 10 reps' each time?
or does that not matter at all? or am i just thinking sh*t? :-D (they were just my thoughts as soon as i read that post, but not being techy minded, i dont understand the relevance of it.)

[davo26]

im sticking with A/B too for now, if only for the fact that i hate legs day, and prefer to spread it out, front squats one day, RDL the next. ive had a real good run of no injuries or tweaks for ages now, due to your advice on swapping mainly triceps exercises. my workout these days are......

A - front squat, chins, incline bench, reverse fly, ham curl, preacher curl, tricep dips, standing calf, wide-grip upright row

B - RDL, pull-ups, flat bench, supported row (now to be changed to elbows tucked, hammer style), leg extension, incline curl, rope pulldown, standing calf, lateral raise


before you shoot off could you firstly run a quick eye over them to give them your nod of approval, and secondly answer a bench press question. just reading your latest advice on bench, and seeing flys down as one of your main exercises, i dont include flys as i never seem to feel much from them. i could see the benefit with cables, as in theres constant strain, but i just have weights, and once the dbs are probably halfway up or whatever, theres no strain any more. so my chest routine above is purely flat one day, incline the next.
would you agree thatll be best for chest growth, or now that the incline seems to be pushed to one side a little, would you recommend flat one day, flys the next instead? flys with weights that is, rather than cable?

thanks

[Kelei]

ok, heres a possibly far too technical question being asked by someone who doesnt understand the science behind it at all, but just accepts youre right at all times :-D........

am i right in assuming that because both areas of the muscle are worked over the 10 reps, thats good and will result in ideal muscle growth? because if so, then doesnt the rest/pause aspect of the workout then just promote bigger growth in only one area? so written differently, a triceps exercise could maybe be seen as 10 reps (lat then long head), 4 (just long), 4 (just long), 4 (just long), 4 (just long), 4 (just long) etc etc. you see where im going with that? the lateral head only being worked in the first set?
or does that not matter at all? or am i just thinking sh*t? :-D (they were just my thoughts as soon as i read that post, but not being techy minded, i dont understand the relevance of it.)

Doesn't work that way, the activation/fatigue ratios between different muscles (which share functions), muscle heads and even different motor units within single muscles will eventually reach equilibrium, after reaching failure the lateral and long heads will be equally fatigued.

[reinvdw]

Kelei why don't you make a training program in the bodyspace workout program's section?

[krysix]

Thank you Kelei. In the straight sets routine I hardly got more than 5 reps in the second set of the hardest compounds so I guess I could even rest 1:30 and still do rest pause.
One question about creatine, I stopped taking it and now I was thinking about taking it again because it was hard to me to do many reps after the first set in the straight sets routine but if we are trying to get closer to failure isn't the creatine counterproductive?

[64509chvl]

Good stuff big guy! Appreciate all you've provided for us!

[Jonesman59]

In line with your elbow. Your forearms should be relaxed as much as possible when rowing. Where the bar will hit your body depends on the individual, everyone has different ratio of forearm/upper arm length.

Thanks that is what I figured.

[Kelei]

im sticking with A/B too for now, if only for the fact that i hate legs day, and prefer to spread it out, front squats one day, RDL the next. ive had a real good run of no injuries or tweaks for ages now, due to your advice on swapping mainly triceps exercises. my workout these days are......

A - front squat, chins, incline bench, reverse fly, ham curl, preacher curl, tricep dips, standing calf, wide-grip upright row

B - RDL, pull-ups, flat bench, supported row (now to be changed to elbows tucked, hammer style), leg extension, incline curl, rope pulldown, standing calf, lateral raise


before you shoot off could you firstly run a quick eye over them to give them your nod of approval, and secondly answer a bench press question. just reading your latest advice on bench, and seeing flys down as one of your main exercises, i dont include flys as i never seem to feel much from them. i could see the benefit with cables, as in theres constant strain, but i just have weights, and once the dbs are probably halfway up or whatever, theres no strain any more. so my chest routine above is purely flat one day, incline the next.
would you agree thatll be best for chest growth, or now that the incline seems to be pushed to one side a little, would you recommend flat one day, flys the next instead? even flys with weights?

thanks

Looks fine, flat bench press and dumbbell flyes are all you need to build an impressive chest. You only need to come 2/3 of the way up during dumbbell flyes, there's not much tension on the pecs during the top 1/3 of the ROM, during cable flyes/crossovers you can maintain tension in that final 1/3 of the ROM but it's of little significance because the pecs enter active insufficiency during this portion of the ROM, I'd rather lift heavier weights and perform only the first 2/3 of the ROM, this eliminates the active insufficiency portion of the rep thus enabling you to overload the rest of the ROM with more weight and hence expose the pecs to a greater magnitude of tension.

I guess this is a topic for another time.

Thank you Kelei. In the straight sets routine I hardly got more than 5 reps in the second set of the hardest compounds so I guess I could even rest 1:30 and still do rest pause.
One question about creatine, I stopped taking it and now I was thinking about taking it again because it was hard to me to do many reps after the first set in the straight sets routine but if we are trying to get closer to failure isn't the creatine counterproductive?

It's not counterproductive, it simply means you'll require less rest between sets because creatine speeds up recovery between sets and can delay fatigue during sets, for example you might be able to perform 12 reps instead of only 11 before failing and you might need only 30 seconds rest between sets instead of 35 seconds.

[NvDeus]

Looks fine, flat bench press and dumbbell flyes are all you need to build an impressive chest.

What about Dips and Flyes Kelei ?

[Kelei]

What about Dips and Flyes Kelei ?

Dips and flat bench are interchangable.

[NvDeus]

Ok, i will stick with ring dips then, Thanks !!

[fymm]

If you're looking for muscle (which means you're hunting hypertrophy), this is the routine to use.

Thanks for the reply; So this is more geared towards hypertrophy than All Pro?

[DravenCarey]

Glad I found the new post before heading out today. I wanted to ask a few simple questions real fast.

1.) On deload weeks, if I hit 12 reps on an exercise, do I still go up in weight?

2.) Will rest-pause give significantly better results than the straight sets? I've come to like the straight sets (and I lift with my GF who's a creature of habit and might put up a fight for anything changing lol) so in preparation for that conversation, how much better would RP be? For those of you who're experienced (it's been a long time since I was doing RP) how would you compare straight sets to RP in terms of total time in the gym?

3.) For the seated rows, is it still done with a "lat pulldown bar" (don't know the correct name for it offhand); if so is it with a shoulder-width grip now (to get elbows tucked)? Or is it better to use the hammer-grip attachment?

Well I think that's about all I had for questions, thank you so much for all your time, commitment, and self-less sharing of information. We're all much wiser because of you! May life have nothing but good things in store for you.

[standalj]

2.) Will rest-pause give significantly better results than the straight sets? I've come to like the straight sets (and I lift with my GF who's a creature of habit and might put up a fight for anything changing lol) so in preparation for that conversation, how much better would RP be? For those of you who're experienced (it's been a long time since I was doing RP) how would you compare straight sets to RP in terms of total time in the gym?

3.) For the seated rows, is it still done with a "lat pulldown bar" (don't know the correct name for it offhand); if so is it with a shoulder-width grip now (to get elbows tucked)? Or is it better to use the hammer-grip attachment?

This has been beaten to death in the previous 3 threads.

Hammer grip.

[klaximilian]

I'd rep Kelei x100 over if I could. Excellent work and thank you for doing this yet again.

In on the PPL, and it looks like I'll be switching to flat bench over 15˚ Incline at the end of my cut.

Congrats on the next chapter of you life man.

[Alyion]

Glad I found the new post before heading out today. I wanted to ask a few simple questions real fast.

1.) On deload weeks, if I hit 12 reps on an exercise, do I still go up in weight?

2.) Will rest-pause give significantly better results than the straight sets? I've come to like the straight sets (and I lift with my GF who's a creature of habit and might put up a fight for anything changing lol) so in preparation for that conversation, how much better would RP be? For those of you who're experienced (it's been a long time since I was doing RP) how would you compare straight sets to RP in terms of total time in the gym?

1.) Yes

2.) It largely depends on the individual to be honest. Personally I (and most on this thread, including Kelei) will claim rest pause to be superior due to the idea of "money reps" being performed (you can/should read through Kelei's previous posts on this, but as a start read this entire page http://tinyurl.com/odfth7y). That being said I love the intensity the routine brings whereas others may legitimately like pump work - at the end of the day you should do whatever you enjoy and more importantly can stick with.

But yes in a nutshell rest-pause is better

[Qxx]

Thanks for the reply; So this is more geared towards hypertrophy than All Pro?

Si, amigo.

EDIT: I might try a straight bar for the seated rows. Slightly bigger ROM, more squeeeeeeeze. Good for upper back.

[standalj]

EDIT: I might try a straight bar for the seated rows. Slightly bigger ROM, more squeeeeeeeze. Good for upper back.

Problem with the straight bar is you might be more prone to flare your elbows. Requires more conscious thought.

[DeaAx7]

on the intermediate routine would it be acceptable to substitute reverse flys with pull-ups?

[AD1984]

I think this thread sums up everything quite beautifully.

I used to post progress pictures back when I had a log here, but I've never shown anyone where I was before I started lifting. Here's a before and after that shows my progress over the past 4 years or so. I started lifting in May 2010. Been on Kelei's training routines since August 2012. I've never done any strength routines, it's always been the 10-12 rep range, focusing on the big compounds along with isolation exercises. I've bulked and cut several times. All the progress I've made up until very recent has been done naturally (I mean it, I'm not here to BS anyone). I'm currently sitting at 132lbs, focusing on gaining more mass, but the present will make for next year's progress pictures. The journey never ends.

Height: 5'3"
First picture: September 2009, about 140lbs and with postural issues.




Second picture: February 2014, 124lbs

[standalj]

on the intermediate routine would it be acceptable to substitute reverse flys with pull-ups?

Reverse flyes were to be used in combination with flyes. Flyes work the chest, reverse flyes work the shoulders. Pull-ups work the lats. You aren't targeting the same muscle group.

[standalj]

Great work AD!

[fymm]

The tricep pressdowns are cable, right?
Also, is there any harm in doing dumbell lateral raises instead of cable?

[Luus]

^^
Astonishing progress, well done.

Thanks for everything Kelei, made great gains and have learned a lot.

I have added two text files in a zip file with all Kelei's posts of his first two threads. Just search for a keyword that is relevant to your question regarding fitness or nutrition in the text files. Someone else made these text files, so credit goes to him/her.

[Luus]

The tricep pressdowns are cable, right?
Also, is there any harm in doing dumbell lateral raises instead of cable?

Cable yes.

No, I do them dumbell style myself. You could also do wide grip upright rows for your side delts.

[DeaAx7]

Reverse flyes were to be used in combination with flyes. Flyes work the chest, reverse flyes work the shoulders. Pull-ups work the lats. You aren't targeting the same muscle group.

Understood.

I'm just curious though as to why there isn't a vertical pull in the intermediate or the beginner routine.