First Bulk - Three Months - 157 to 173 - Looking For Advice

[rimduglep]

Well, I finished bulking at around 186 pounds, which means all together I gained about 30 pounds in 27 weeks. I'm never going to get this fat again. Here are my end-bulk pics, if anyone was wondering where I went from there. And yeah, I know I can't pose and the lighting sucks.









I did end up changing my workouts up a bit over the past three and a half months - the time since the last pictures I posted. I focused more on adding some volume and I started incorporating some upright rows and, more recently, took out push-ups and replaced them with incline bench and took out door pull ups and replaced them with actual chinups.

Current maxes...

Bench 185
Pendlay Row 210
Stiff Leg Dead Lift 310
Barbell Curl 100
Overhead Press 115

I'm now planning on a long slow cut back down to as lean/if not leaner than I was at 157. Hopefully I can do that at weight about 10 pounds heavier now. We shall see.

[Edman316]

I'm not sure why you decided to bulk. You should have continued training at 157 pounds with a slight increase in daily calories. You would have been far better off today.

[Flounderbout]

Noobs putting on 1lb a month are putting a lot on their legs and a lot of all-over mass from big compounds, I.e. squats and deads. You have been packing a lot more weight on than that and with next to no leg or all body work. The outcome is not that surprising.

But then you have been given ample advice for addressing that ITT.

[bradandblake]

I can tell you've added some muscle mass (shoulders, forearms, outer chest). Good work, but not, because you added a lot of unnecessary fat with it. If you are going to cut now, do it slowly. IMO, aim for 1-2 pounds loss a week. I'd really focus on keeping your strength up.

...and since you haven't been working your legs much, do it now. There is no reason to believe you can't strengthen them up while you are cutting.

[rimduglep]

I'm not sure why you decided to bulk. You should have continued training at 157 pounds with a slight increase in daily calories. You would have been far better off today.

I decided to bulk because I was sick of being stuck at the same weights on my lifts for about a year... When I started with a slight increase in calories, that didn't seem to do much for me in terms of strength. When I try to gain again in the future, it will definitely be slower. I just worry that I won't give myself the ample calories to gain anything. We shall see.

[rimduglep]

Noobs putting on 1lb a month are putting a lot on their legs and a lot of all-over mass from big compounds, I.e. squats and deads. You have been packing a lot more weight on than that and with next to no leg or all body work. The outcome is not that surprising.

But then you have been given ample advice for addressing that ITT.

Thanks for the response.

For most of this bulk I was doing some hamstring curls as well. I haven't hit quads very hard as I was trying to counteract the fact that I sit for about 10 hours a day at work, leading to pretty bad anterior pelvic tilt. I sit straighter now though and I'm better at keeping my abs contracted and so I'm more likely to add squats soon - whenever I get my new set up in the next couple of months.

[rimduglep]

I can tell you've added some muscle mass (shoulders, forearms, outer chest). Good work, but not, because you added a lot of unnecessary fat with it. If you are going to cut now, do it slowly. IMO, aim for 1-2 pounds loss a week. I'd really focus on keeping your strength up.

...and since you haven't been working your legs much, do it now. There is no reason to believe you can't strengthen them up while you are cutting.

Thanks for your response. Yeah, I am looking to hit my legs harder - especially when I have the necessary equipment to squat. I used to squat a bit with this same cheap bench - I would set the base of it up on some cinder blocks and unlock the actual bench so that I could lift that up and prop it up with a broom stick so I could walk into the base to get the bar. It was really dangerous and dumb... I topped out at 165 on squats after doing them for about a year back then while trying to do Starting Strength. I'm sure I'll get further with them this time.

Yeah, I'm definitely looking to lose slowly, and I will. I want to hold on to as much lean mass as I can on the way down to 10-11%.

[Flounderbout]

Thanks for the response.

For most of this bulk I was doing some hamstring curls as well. I haven't hit quads very hard as I was trying to counteract the fact that I sit for about 10 hours a day at work, leading to pretty bad anterior pelvic tilt. I sit straighter now though and I'm better at keeping my abs contracted and so I'm more likely to add squats soon - whenever I get my new set up in the next couple of months.

Squats are very far from just quad work. I spent 14 weeks doing nothing but squats (Smolov) when I had a shoulder injury, and I can honestly say that in that period I went through a more pronounced change in shape than at any other time lifting. My abs were the most pronounced they have ever been (and no I was not losing weight - in fact I gained slightly since I was on a big, or what I thought was a big, calorie surplus). If you are not squatting then there is a huge hole in your program to fill. That doesn't mean you have to squat - some people can't for whatever reason and I get that. But you are going to have to work hard to fill the gap. A few hamstring curls and SLDLs does not even come close to making a leg workout, let alone the sort of full body workout that you are getting from squats and deads.

I know people can come across as a bit like a religious cult in here when they endlessly advocate heavy squats and deads. But that is because they know their worth.

Obviously getting a rack will make a big difference.

[rimduglep]

Squats are very far from just quad work. I spent 14 weeks doing nothing but squats (Smolov) when I had a shoulder injury, and I can honestly say that in that period I went through a more pronounced change in shape than at any other time lifting. My abs were the most pronounced they have ever been (and no I was not losing weight - in fact I gained slightly since I was on a big, or what I thought was a big, calorie surplus). If you are not squatting then there is a huge hole in your program to fill. That doesn't mean you have to squat - some people can't for whatever reason and I get that. But you are going to have to work hard to fill the gap. A few hamstring curls and SLDLs does not even come close to making a leg workout, let alone the sort of full body workout that you are getting from squats and deads.

I know people can come across as a bit like a religious cult in here when they endlessly advocate heavy squats and deads. But that is because they know their worth.

Obviously getting a rack will make a big difference.

I want to add squats to my workouts. As I don't have a squat rack, at this time I would have to clean the bar into place to do them. As such, it's going to be a requirement that I start very light on the squats. I would rather go heavy - rather, heavy for me, but I'm trying to do what I can. So, I have been looking at the All Pro Beginner routine and I'm thinking about taking the plunge... So, with these being my current work sets on my own program...

Bench 160 X 5
Pendlay Row 175 X 5
Stiff Legged Dead Lift 275 X 5
Overhead Press 95 X 5
Barbell Curl 85 X 5

...Is it going to be absolutely ridiculous to start with an extremely low weigh on squats in relation to my SLDL, for which my 10 RM is around 240? I plan on buying a squat rack in the future - probably two months away - so I need to make sure that I don't progress too fast before then (beyond my ability to clean) but at the same time I want to make sure that I am doing something... Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Flounderbout]

...Is it going to be absolutely ridiculous to start with an extremely low weigh on squats in relation to my SLDL, for which my 10 RM is around 240? I plan on buying a squat rack in the future - probably two months away - so I need to make sure that I don't progress too fast before then (beyond my ability to clean) but at the same time I want to make sure that I am doing something... Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

What your SLDL is is pretty irrelevant, and anyway your squats will catch up pretty quick. You ought to be doing heavy deads btw. SLDLs really are not a substitute.

Personally until you get a rack, I would do Bulgarian Split Squats. You need less than half the weight you would use for a back squat for them to be tough, so you can easily clean the bar into place. That is what I did before I got my rack. They are very hard and I hated them.

[grubman]

As far as cutting and bulking, I wasn't even familiar with those concepts until a few years ago (and I had been lifting religiously for 15 years at that point). In other words, I wouldn't be too concerned with trying to bulk or cut at this stage. Make sure you get enough quality food so you aren't ever hungry, and focus on getting stronger.

I know what you mean. I'm getting so sick of beginners or low level intermediates* on this forum talking about "bulking" and "cutting". They don't seem to understand that you have to have a solid core of muscle already before bothering with either of these (no offence OP). Yes, diet is important, but cutting and bulking is for more advanced developed guys. If you don't have the muscle underneath, cutting is just losing fat (a diet) and bulking is just getting fat.

OP...I also don't understand all the beginners trying all these "fancy" workouts. Blog standard starting bodybuilding 101 for naturals has always been solid compound exercises, 6 sets for big body parts, 3 sets for small, 8-10 reps per set. Try to increase weight or reps every workout. It isn't glamorous, and nobody is trying to "sell" it online, but darn it, it'll teach you form, build strength,shape, and size, and most importantly it will give you a foundation of understanding how your body responds.

I'm a nice guy, really, but I'm going to say what I would want to hear if I was you...the "bulk" is not good, you just got fat, and now you have to lose it again. IMHO, at your state of development, get back to where you were after that "cut" (diet), then eat good healthy meals at your maintenance . With a solid lifting plan you will gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. It won't be fast, but it will be slow and steady and solid.

Just my opinion.

*For the record, I consider myself a "lifetime intermediate".

[grubman]

P.S. Thought you looked pretty good after the "cut".

[rimduglep]

I know what you mean. I'm getting so sick of beginners or low level intermediates* on this forum talking about "bulking" and "cutting". They don't seem to understand that you have to have a solid core of muscle already before bothering with either of these (no offence OP). Yes, diet is important, but cutting and bulking is for more advanced developed guys. If you don't have the muscle underneath, cutting is just losing fat (a diet) and bulking is just getting fat.

OP...I also don't understand all the beginners trying all these "fancy" workouts. Blog standard starting bodybuilding 101 for naturals has always been solid compound exercises, 6 sets for big body parts, 3 sets for small, 8-10 reps per set. Try to increase weight or reps every workout. It isn't glamorous, and nobody is trying to "sell" it online, but darn it, it'll teach you form, build strength,shape, and size, and most importantly it will give you a foundation of understanding how your body responds.

I'm a nice guy, really, but I'm going to say what I would want to hear if I was you...the "bulk" is not good, you just got fat, and now you have to lose it again. IMHO, at your state of development, get back to where you were after that "cut" (diet), then eat good healthy meals at your maintenance . With a solid lifting plan you will gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. It won't be fast, but it will be slow and steady and solid.

Just my opinion.

*For the record, I consider myself a "lifetime intermediate".

Thanks for all of the advice. And yeah, I wish I would have just taken it easy but I am proud that I finally made some strength gains along the way. Being stuck doing reps at 130 on bench for six months before this and patting myself on the back for perseverance was getting old.

I'm sure I'll be in a pretty good spot six months from now as I lose some fat and add squats and more volume to my routine. We shall see.

I posted a thread a few days ago entitled "Just wow" - basically, talking about the fact that sometimes I see the progress people make and I'm amazed - it almost seems like photoshopping to me, but I know it's all real. I think about the kind of effort I have put in and the way my elbows ache and all of that and it's frustrating. But effort isn't enough.

[anonymous]

I posted a thread a few days ago entitled "Just wow" - basically, talking about the fact that sometimes I see the progress people make and I'm amazed - it almost seems like photoshopping to me, but I know it's all real. I think about the kind of effort I have put in and the way my elbows ache and all of that and it's frustrating. But effort isn't enough.

no kidding.

there's a little something we're not allowed to talk about here that's responsible for 95% of head turning rapid transformations - sadly the result of the induced delusion is thousands of natties getting fat from overeating

You looked pretty good lean, cut back to 160 and work from there

[rimduglep]

Welp, I took the plunge. All Pro's Beginner's Routine. If you care to follow, I have a workout journal...

Here were my starting weights...

Squat 15 X 8, 30 X 8, 60 X 8, 60 X 8
Bench Press 30 X 8, 65 X 8, 135 X 8, 135 X 8
Pendlay Row 115 X 8, 150 X 8, 150 X 8
Military Press 80 X 8, 80 X 8
Stiff Legged Dead Lift 240 X 8, 240 X 8
Barbell Curls 70 X 8, 70 X 8
Calf Raises 60 X 8, 60 X 8

Thoughts... Yeah, my knees are terrible and squats are going to kill me just like they always did. I feel strange being done in like an hour as my old workouts took me an hour and a half due to the long rests between set that I required to lift as much weight as I was. I feel like I'm going to miss chin ups and incline bench but I am going to trust everyone. I'll do pics again after the first time through

[Edman316]

I know what you mean. I'm getting so sick of beginners or low level intermediates* on this forum talking about "bulking" and "cutting". They don't seem to understand that you have to have a solid core of muscle already before bothering with either of these (no offence OP). Yes, diet is important, but cutting and bulking is for more advanced developed guys. If you don't have the muscle underneath, cutting is just losing fat (a diet) and bulking is just getting fat.

OP...I also don't understand all the beginners trying all these "fancy" workouts. Blog standard starting bodybuilding 101 for naturals has always been solid compound exercises, 6 sets for big body parts, 3 sets for small, 8-10 reps per set. Try to increase weight or reps every workout. It isn't glamorous, and nobody is trying to "sell" it online, but darn it, it'll teach you form, build strength,shape, and size, and most importantly it will give you a foundation of understanding how your body responds.

I'm a nice guy, really, but I'm going to say what I would want to hear if I was you...the "bulk" is not good, you just got fat, and now you have to lose it again. IMHO, at your state of development, get back to where you were after that "cut" (diet), then eat good healthy meals at your maintenance . With a solid lifting plan you will gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. It won't be fast, but it will be slow and steady and solid.

Just my opinion.

*For the record, I consider myself a "lifetime intermediate".

I agree 100% and I've only been here a short time. Granted, I took a long break (12 years) but I was pretty serious about working out from my teens to age 33. I spent years adding muscle to my frame. There seems to be 2 types of new lifters here today that were not common 12 years ago: Skinny fat guy that trains for 6 months and thinks he added enough LBM to cut. Fat guy that trains for a couple months, loses a little weight and feels it is now time to bulk. The skinny fat guy cuts down to silly low body weight and complains he can't see the muscle he don't freaking have. Fat guy bulks (fattens) himself up close to his original weight (one of the dumbest moves I see here over and over) and can't understand why he isn't making progress. It's called body building - not body cutting - or bulking fat to add muscle.

These guys need to spend a couple years training and eating right instead of looking for the fast track to success because it does not exsist.

[rimduglep]

You want to see something really sad? Here's when I first started, in 2004... I had crash diet from 196 to 160 in three months and I was just about to start lifting a bit.

And here I am now, not a whole lot different. More dedicated, a lot stronger, but not close to my goals.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...=301625&page=1

[ironripped]

Lol

Looks like the first and third pic are same.

[rimduglep]

Lol

Looks like the first and third pic are same.

Gotta keep it consistent.

[ironripped]

Gotta keep it consistent.

This is what happens when you yoyo between bulk and cut.

[acrawlingchaos]

You looked pretty good lean, cut back to 160 and work from there

Have to agree with this. I had a lot of the same issues as you starting out with diet. My first bulk I went from 152-190 in the span of 5 months and ended up looking like a bag of smashed *ssholes all said and done. I dieted back to 150 and had to start over. I've become better at judging how fast I can put on weight, and have gone from 160-172 since April. Keeping your diet less aggressive means more time lifting in a positive energy state without having a breakdown and needing to diet again.

As far as pain on lifts. Work on your mobility as aggressively as you did your diet and I doubt you'll have the issues you do.

[rimduglep]

Hey there, just thought I'd post an update here.

I'm five weeks into All Pro's Beginner's Routine now and I'm enjoying it. Struggling at these higher rep ranges but I feel like this will probably end up yielding better aesthetic results in the end.

I'm down about 4.5 pounds since starting the routine - nice and slow loss, I believe.

Any thoughts, other than the idea that I should learn how to pose and pointing out the fact that my navel is off center? Ha ha.

[Casedogg43]

This makes me question the intensity of your workouts. I used to train guys who were scared to death of "getting too big," and I always had to laugh at that statement. It is REALLY difficult to get so big that your clothes stop fitting and things like that. It definitely doesn't happen overnight. You have to eat like it's your job and constantly push yourself to the breaking point at the gym. It sounds like you've made some decent strength gains, but I wouldn't be scared of going heavier and increasing the intensity. If you end up with more muscle than you want, feel free to send it my way

As far as cutting and bulking, I wasn't even familiar with those concepts until a few years ago (and I had been lifting religiously for 15 years at that point). In other words, I wouldn't be too concerned with trying to bulk or cut at this stage. Make sure you get enough quality food so you aren't ever hungry, and focus on getting stronger.

^^^^^^^^^^
This is exactly my thoughts! INTENSITY of your workouts? Find a great set of headphones, hit your music, IGNORE everyone else in the gym. And go in the gym and knock your workout out in 40-45mins. take 60-90 sec breaks in between sets NOT more.
Go to failure each set.... Last set hit a drop set
Get your intensity up!

Not sure of your diet. Don't remember seeing that mentioned. But that will mean a lot in your fat loss. You can still maintain or even gain muscle at your stage while cutting fat.

Did I mention intensity??!!

Good luck bro

[mfpd00]

As mentioned above, you really need to up the intensity to your program.

I would consider a day or two of HIIT training to supplement your workouts. Don't worry about his bulk/cut stuff. You need to get a solid base of muscle. Taking away the fat right now will just make you skinny. I would watch out getting any more fat than what you have. I try to stay fairly lean all year long. I never want to be more than 10 weeks out from show condition.

As the guy said above, you have enough fat that you can lose fat and still gain muscle. I do not mean to say that you are obese or anything. You are just carrying enough that you can do both fat loss and muscle gain for a short period. Diet is going to be key for you.

Best of luck and keep working toward your goals. We only fail when we quit.

[rimduglep]

I guess I'm just not getting what you guy mean by intensity.

I'm currently doing the All Pro Beginner's Routine, as it has structure to it and is higher in rep ranges than my old personally made workout. I saw strength gains on the old program but only when I stuffed my face, and I never really saw any aesthetic gains with that workout. I think that will change as I see All Pro's through five cycles with the increasing rep ranges and test days... And when that levels out, I will move to the intermediate version.

As far as gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time, I was under the impression that that was only possible for total newbies and kids between 15-22 years old or so. I've been lifting on and off for about ten years and for about a year and a half without stopping at this point, so I assumed I was past that and needed to commit to losing fat or gaining muscle (slowly) from here on out...

[BentArrow]

Might need to clean bulk, Bro. Clean carbs. YAMS!

[rimduglep]

Hey, I just finished my second cycle of All Pro's so I thought I would post an update here. I wish that I could change the name of the thread, but hey.

I'm currently sitting at 179.0 - down a few pounds from the five weeks ago, continuing to diet down nice and easy.

[anonymous]

You need to focus on losing weight ASAP, your waist is wider than your chest after ten years training. None of this nice and easy, lean bulking stuff, you need to suffer for a few months in a meaningful deficit

Drop your cals and deal with the "muscle" loss (it's not muscle) until that waist is under control otherwise what's the point in even lifting?

[silverlightning]

add some squats and dead lifts and don't worry about getting to big or looking like a homo AB fitch model. look into strong lifts 5x5 and ditch your routine as it's not working.

[silverlightning]

i have a big head, but OP yours takes the cake. stop worrying about abs when you have no real muscle. can you post some videos of your training? something is off.