LOA hopping on the supplement bandwagon

[Domicron]

Can I just say I love you guys?

Anyhow can we get back to being baffled at the flavoring being separate?

[themonkay]

edited post above to elaborate my point. Of course, i'm sure you'll find a way to twist my words again Former

[Domicron]

What's so baffling? Even custom protein companies separate their flavors for you or mix it in if you want.

Well I didnt know custom companiss did that sort of thing, still seems strange to me.

[Former300lber]

edited post above to elaborate my point. Of course, i'm sure you'll find a way to twist my words again Former

You're coming off extremely butt hurt, and for this I'm sorry that you are unable to take in some tough criticizing even though you are so willing to give it out. You still lack the understanding of what the difference between an isolate and concentrate actually is, let me give you some homework for today, use Google, type in this "The difference between whey isolate, and whey concentrate" do a little bit of reading, not too much I wouldn't want you to get all confused and get frustrated. After you've done your reading you'll see there is in fact a difference between Isolate and Concentrate, I have already told you what the difference is but you still were unable to pick that up amongst my text.

Also, don't rep me, I'm not gonna rep you back or start agreeing with you because you gave me points lol, grow a back bone.

when it comes to hydrolyzed isolate protein, the whole idea of marketing it is to imply that its more effective than your standard whey protein.

That's NOT the marketing behind isolate vs concentrate, you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

BTW strong handpicking a few supplements out of the many which are useless...you're just making yourself look completely clueless. I'm sure you get a free magazine whenever you buy your protein powder right? I personally throw those magazines right away, but I challenge you to show me even one magazine that has at least 50% of their supplements which are genuinely beneficial for the general population.

Since when did Bodybuilders and Strength athletes (Those that most supplement companies / magazines are aimed towards) become part of the general population? Lol'd @ the Magazine comment tho, just go's to show where your maturity level's at.

[Tyler31622]

He is butthurt, he negged me saying "Stay Red" for no reason.

[themonkay]

You're coming off extremely butt hurt, and for this I'm sorry that you are unable to take in some tough criticizing even though you are so willing to give it out. You still lack the understanding of what the difference between an isolate and concentrate actually is, let me give you some homework for today, use Google, type in this "The difference between whey isolate, and whey concentrate" do a little bit of reading, not too much I wouldn't want you to get all confused and get frustrated. After you've done your reading you'll see there is in fact a difference between Isolate and Concentrate, I have already told you what the difference is but you still were unable to pick that up amongst my text.

Also, don't rep me, I'm not gonna rep you back or start agreeing with you because you gave me points lol, grow a back bone.




That's NOT the marketing behind isolate vs concentrate, you don't know what the hell you are talking about.



Since when did Bodybuilders and Strength athletes (Those that most supplement companies / magazines are aimed towards) become part of the general population? Lol'd @ the Magazine comment tho, just go's to show where your maturity level's at.

Strong neg. I repped you after your first response (before you decided to act like a dik) because I rep anyone in the nutmisc who responds in my threads, regardless of whether they agree with me or not. You can easily see the time I repped you if you think I'm lieing and its the exact same time I repped Maaster.

You're delusional about the supplement industry if you think they exist simply to supplement what our diet cannot provide. That's cute how you twisted my words into meaning general population=bodybuilders. I guess I should have said "general fitness market segment", but of course you would find something else to twist.

You're clearly just arguing because you can't accept that some people might have a different opinion than you. Its called the real world buddy...

Other than its fast digesting properties, which have no practical use, you have failed to tell me any reason why someone would purchase hydrolyzed whey vs whey concentrate.

Clearly you're ok with selling a subpar product at an unreasonably inflated price. I'm not. Obviously I shouldnt expect much more from you since you're stuck on the idea that the supplement industry is actually an ethical business.

[Former300lber]

Learn to read, I've given you a reason why people buy isolate over concentrate, but here let me repeat my self for you.


"More Protein Per Unit"

Can you comprehend that? Want me to break it down a little further for you? What that means is this;

The primary difference between isolate and concentrate is that the isolate is the most purest form of protein. Whey isolate usually contains between 90-94% protein while whey concentrate has a protein ratio of around 70-85%. 

I can break that down further for you;

Isolate = more protein, less carbs and fat.

If you need me to break down that even further, I'll do my best, but I don't know how simpler I can get.

[themonkay]

Learn to read, I've given you a reason why people buy isolate over concentrate, but here let me repeat my self for you.


"More Protein Per Unit"

Can you comprehend that? Want me to break it down a little further for you? What that means is this;

Isolate = More protein, less carbs and fat per serving.

If you need me to break down that even further, I'll do my best, but I don't know how simpler I can get.

You realize that its still more $/gram of protein don't you? The product in the OP is $1.50/22.5 grams of protein. ON gold standard is $.75/24 grams of protein.

[Former300lber]

You realize that its still more $/gram of protein don't you? The product in the OP is $1.50/22.5 grams of protein. ON gold standard is $.75/24 grams of protein.

What is your point? The argument you tried to get across was that isolate was useless in comparison to Concentrate, pretend it didn't have a price tag, the fact remains isolate = more protein, less carbs, less fat then concentrate. You realize that don't you?

Also lol @ Comparing Optimum Nutrition to there whey, obviously it's gonna be cheaper, do you know how business works? that's like comparing Wal-mart pricing to the local ma and pa shops prices, which do you think is gonna be cheaper? lol just lol, your logic.

[themonkay]

What is your point? The argument you tried to get across was that isolate was useless in comparison to Concentrate, pretend it didn't have a price tag, the fact remains isolate = more protein, less carbs, less fat then concentrate. You realize that don't you?

Lol. Now you're just being desperate. My point was that LOA is selling a subpar product compared to the alternative in multiple ways.

I have repeatedly asked you to show me a PRACTICAL use of hydrolyzed whey as opposed to whey concentrate. Even those who follow a keto protocol could give less of a fuk about the trace carbs in whey concentrate.

If you honestly can sit there and tell me that doubling the price per serving is justifiable for a few less grams of carbs and fat, then I'm sorry, but that speaks miles in itself about your character.

[Former300lber]

If you honestly can sit there and tell me that doubling the price per serving is justifiable for a few less grams of carbs and fat, then I'm sorry, but that speaks miles in itself about your character.

My character? pretty sure anybody who runs there own business wants to intake as much profit as possible, if people are willing to pay, who am I or you to say they shouldn't? Nobody is forcing you to buy there product, I guess people who buy Armani over Walmart clothes have poor character, you don't know how business work's bud, keep your hippy crap to your self.

[themonkay]

Also lol @ Comparing Optimum Nutrition to there whey, obviously it's gonna be cheaper, do you know how business works? that's like comparing Wal-mart pricing to the local ma and pa shops prices, which do you think is gonna be cheaper? lol just lol, your logic.

Ok i can concede that its a bit unfair to compare LOA's hydrolyzed whey to ON's whey concentrate IN PRICE. See that? I can admit when the opposite side has a valid point because i don't have my panties in a bunch over a disagreement. Although I would then question why they didn't just wait to release their whey concentrate product first instead, which they have stated they are coming out with soon. Personally I think its because they needed a supplement to sell for the san jose fit expo, although I'm aware there may be plenty of other variables involved with that decision. (Still, I could then name smaller brands in supplements which sell their product at a reasonable price in comparison to their much larger competitors.)

You still are failing to show me why hydrolyzed whey has any practical use over whey concentrate. You have given an arbitrary % difference. Are you aware that this product: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/op...kwid=143776753
has 200% more carbs than this product:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/dymatize/iso-100.html

^^^^that is your logic
it doesn't mean sh!t when we're talking about 3 grams of carbs vs 1 gram of carbs. Seriously, who in the blue hell does that make any difference for?

[themonkay]

I guess people who buy Armani over Walmart clothes have poor character

Strong word twisting again. I never said anything about the consumer of an overpriced product.

And honestly, are you trolling or are you seriously just that delusional. The only business ethics I have questioned in this entire thread is that of the supplement industry.

[TypeNirvash]

Well I didnt know custom companiss did that sort of thing, still seems strange to me.

I'm so very thankful that I'm not the only one. That was incredibly weird.

Yikes, guys! We're all amigos here Let's turn this thread back into a conversation as it was initially intended and not an argument.

Monkay, I see where you're coming from regarding how LOA's initial purpose was to denote certain practices, and now that they are joining the market it seems somewhat counter productive. I think that's a completely understandable point of view to take in the situation, but I kind of also get where LOA is coming from as well.

Sure, they're releasing a supplement that is somewhat costly compared to typical market price... But we also don't know anything about it. Okay, I admit it is kind of weird that you have to add your own flavor...

But I think that what really needs to be considered here when talking about whether or not a supplement is worth it would be these things;

Nutrient Profile

I see that the amino profile is listed on the site as well. Not quite sure how to decipher that, and I'll leave it to somebody who knows a little more about the subject to determine how worthwhile the product is in this sense.

Flavor:
Sure, you can have an amazing nutrient profile... But come on, we're spoiled in this day and age. If we have the technology to make things taste good, then why shouldn't we?

Mixability
Nobody wants a clumpy drink.

Effectiveness
I'd say that this one is somewhat relative to the user's end-goal (and the type of supplement).

While I'm not justifying the cost, I'm simply saying that it's worth determining whether or not you think the supplement is worth the money given the nature of other products.

I get that LOA is most likely searching for sources of income, and you really can't blame them for making a decision that might help them increase revenue. Granted, I'd still say that a protein supplement isn't going to magically make your body stronger (and I don't really see them making that claim). I think that in the end, nobody absolutely has to buy the supplement--anybody purchasing it will be doing so of their own free will.

I mean, the way I see it is this;

If somebody offered me a couple extra thousand dollars a year to endorse a protein supplement (or if I had the ability to make my own product), I think I'd take it. I mean, I'd attempt to use my moral compass as much as possible regarding how I advertised it and what I said about it, but ultimately, there is nothing wrong with making some money by providing a useful supplement. Because in the end, whether it be whey or isolate, it's still useful

[themonkay]

@Type
Thank you for your sound response. Would rep but your still on spread.

LOA's initial purpose was to denote certain practices, and now that they are joining the market it seems somewhat counter productive.

That is essentially where I am shaking my head at them. I don't even like Ian Mccarthy, but you can't really say anything negative about his preworkout supplement. Same goes for a smaller company such as citadel. I guess I would have expected something similar from LOA.

I get that LOA is looking for ways to increase their revenues. The morality in how they are doing that could be debated endlessly but I find many of their approaches to be unethical. For instance, their consumer target (teens and very young adults) is easily the most impressionable group within their market segment.

@former
hippy crap? mmmkay. Would you like me to post a picture of my neighborhood or the cars on my driveway? From personally witnessing my own family and the community they are involved with I can tell you that I have seen ethical business, unethical business, and many things in between. Don't associate my opinion on the supplement industry to opinion on business as a whole.

[TypeNirvash]

@Type
Thank you for your sound response. Would rep but your still on spread.


That is essentially where I am shaking my head at them. I don't even like Ian Mccarthy, but you can't really say anything negative about his preworkout supplement. Same goes for a smaller company such as citadel. I guess I would have expected something similar from LOA.

No worries, man.

Again, you're making a very valid point. When you expect a certain level of performance from a group or individual it's very easy to be let down. By the same token, you could also debate that Ian Mccarthy's pre-workout is not necessary but useful in the same way that LOA's protein supplement is (although they have different uses, they still serve a similar purpose in an individual's end-game).

You can put it this way, having a protein supplement can help you reach your daily minimum intake of protein. While you don't need to take it, LOA's supplement is definitely at least of some use.

I get that LOA is looking for ways to increase their revenues. The morality in how they are doing that could be debated endlessly but I find many of their approaches to be unethical. For instance, their consumer target (teens and very young adults) is easily the most impressionable group within their market segment.

I can see how that would come across as unethical. Especially considering the fact that when I was young, I thought that protein powder was going to make me big and strong (and found out the hard way that this is not the case). But I would also have to play the role of the devil's advocate here, and say that it's partially the consumer's responsibility to research and understand the product that they are purchasing. I believe strongly that if you're going to put something in your body, at least know exactly what it does and what purpose it serves (if only at the most basic level, ie; pre-workouts will help you perform better; protein supplements are a processed food that aids increasing protein intake; food reduces hunger.). If you're not going to educate yourself as a consumer, then you're just asking to be swindled.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it makes the practice of advertising to the impressionable youth any better/worse... But the information is available, and if a consumer only listens to one source of information eventually they're going to end up spinning their wheels (or seeing sub-optimal results at best).

While the customer base is mostly "bros", I'd still have to say that in the end LOA is not using misleading advertisement (especially considering that all of the information one could ever need is available for free with a quick google search). I say this only because the product they are offering does not state that it's going to make the diet instantly better, and that there are many other options available.

EDIT: I think that the idea that people "need" protein supplements comes back to the lack of education on the subject and the apathy/laziness exhibited by the layman regarding exercise and nutrition.

[brendbro]

i wish Brady would release Bro-on already hehehe

[DAaaMan64]

But I would also have to play the role of the devil's advocate here, and say that it's partially the consumer's responsibility to research and understand the product that they are purchasing.

No. I cannot even deal with this world. I see tons of people, intelligent, stupid, my friends, my family spinning their wheels because one person is "just tryin' to make a livin'".

When I try to quantify the amount of energy and money wasted on unethical business I just cringe. Recall that ethical business would save all this money and increase consumer positive results. This is the real goal, NOT makin' sure KaliMuscle makes a living miss-leading n00bs.

Edit: You're being plenty reasonable Type, don't take this as an attack. We're not that many degrees off from each other on this issue.

[themonkay]

^^^ pretty much the school of thought i'm coming from.

I agree with type that the consumer definitely has a high level of responsibility to research what they are putting into their body, but the reality is, most teens and young adults aren't going to do that. They are going to see the LOA brand name, jizz their pants, and spend their money on the product. Brand association is a very strong tactic in marketing, and its going to be interesting to see what other supplement products LOA decides to come out with.

[foodandfitness]

I see the fitness entrepreneurs in LOA making a strategic business move. Good for them. I hope they use marketing that finds the right balance between honest and effective.

[TypeNirvash]

No. I cannot even deal with this world. I see tons of people, intelligent, stupid, my friends, my family spinning their wheels because one person is "just tryin' to make a livin'".

When I try to quantify the amount of energy and money wasted on unethical business I just cringe. Recall that ethical business would save all this money and increase consumer positive results. This is the real goal, NOT makin' sure KaliMuscle makes a living miss-leading n00bs.

Edit: You're being plenty reasonable Type, don't take this as an attack. We're not that many degrees off from each other on this issue.

I definitely see what you're saying. Believe me, I hate seeing people get taken advantage of just as much (if not more) than the next guy... But unfortunately, today's market is geared toward pushing products without regards for the consumer base. Unethical practice is wrong, and I would never justify it by any means.

EDIT: At the current moment, though, I don't know whether or not I could classify this action by LOA as unethical. And that's mainly because the information they've provided isn't necessarily false... And while still a money-grab, it seems like the product is fairly solid. I'd go on to say that this practice is continued across the market with many companies, who may or may not have better prices. I don't see anything wrong with selling a protein supplement as long as it's usefulness is elaborated upon.

But the best way to protect oneself as a consumer is to be informed just in case the product in question is not fully explained.

^^^ pretty much the school of thought i'm coming from.

I agree with type that the consumer definitely has a high level of responsibility to research what they are putting into their body, but the reality is, most teens and young adults aren't going to do that. They are going to see the LOA brand name, jizz their pants, and spend their money on the product. Brand association is a very strong tactic in marketing, and its going to be interesting to see what other supplement products LOA decides to come out with.

You guys both have some very moral and compassionate views regarding the industry. It's refreshing to see that people do care about what's going on, and it's kind of nice when things like this do get brought to the light.

While I get that it is kind of a blatant money-grab, there's no denying that we don't really need protein supplements from any company and that they just make life a little bit easier. Brand association is a big thing, and there's no doubt in my mind that people will purchase this product. There will be many people who purchase this without really understanding what it does. But people are purchasing protein supplements from almost any other company--at this very moment--without realizing what they actually do.

We, as consumers, have more power than we're lead to believe. Through consumer education, there's no reason why unethical practice can't be stopped.