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  1. #181
    cutting to womens figure seanjoe0's Avatar
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    I don't post in here very much but it's kinda sad to see what its become over the years....this guy posts about making it as an ifbb pro (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=162893291) and of course the comments start flooding in about "take it to bikini section" / "not real pro" etc etc. How can you not tip the cap to the progress this guy made in 8 months! Obviously he has just as much dedication to his craft as any other bodybuilder, or do you think he doesn't life everyday, do hours of cardio and diet? Are you just mad that no "real" ifbb pro gives a flying f*k about posting here on a regular basis like the old days?

    Is Physique different than regular? Sure it is, but that doesn't make it any less respectable. This division was largely born out of the frustrations of people on these exact forums that used to rail about the distended guts that plagued regular bodybuilding for years.

    I could really careless about a split and I prefer "real bodybuilding" like most people here, but I think what's going on here is the guys who post every single day think this section is there home and they don't want it polluted with physique threads bc physique is "ghey" so they want a separate section so we can laugh about how its a ghost town where no one posts except for the newly minted anonymous pros to brag and beg for instagram followers. I mean seriously, are we really being inundated with physique posts aside from the ones who come from guys who just wanna laugh at the division?

    for christ sake get over yourselves, there's more jason genova threads then workout video threads....this section sucks bc pros dont care about putting content out anymore so we are left with stimulating debates of the merits of rich piana's physique

    inb4 "it's not real bb'ing, workout for 1 year and your physique pro at age 20!!!" brb dallas mccarver, brb aaron clark, brb flex lewis, brb justin compton

    flame away!

  2. #182
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    Originally Posted by Dreambulker View Post
    why are people so mad that the physique guys are bigger than half of them in this thread?
    But ifbb bodybuilders are even bigger but nobody's mad about that.


    Even if there's any doubt that mp generates enough traffic at the moment, look how fast it's growing, and that will only increase with the creation of its own subsection.

  3. #183
    king of atrophy Groggery's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by seanjoe0 View Post
    Is Physique different than regular? Sure it is, but that doesn't make it any less respectable.
    People get respect for working out and achieving results, anywhere, at any time. This though is the Pro section, for shows, competitors and placings.

    All a physique competitor can do here is make a thread saying hi, linking his ******** or w/e and then quietly fading. We can't compare him to any of the rest of his division, because the damn rules aren't even there. They can't have a Coleman, because nobody knows how the hell you win, apart from being involved with the judges.

    We don't have a clear and easily accessible MP show schedule, streams and competitor lists. We don't have any rules and qualities to differentiate the guys from one another, as they don't behave like bodybuilders.

    So what the flying **** do you think we can do when they post here? This is why this thread exists. To give them their own little corner, where they can figure out the details.
    People these days have more reps than brain cells

  4. #184
    Registered User TTimmerman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by seanjoe0 View Post
    Is Physique different than regular? Sure it is, but that doesn't make it any less respectable.
    stopped reading right here. apart from missing the point to why they could use their own section you also fail to realize the level of sacrifice/investment/commitment IFBB pro bodybuilding takes versus the walk in the park MP is. good that you don't post often

  5. #185
    Registered User TropicalSunset's Avatar
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    A separate forum would be great, as I have said before, but the amount of hate by some of you for the physique competitors is just outright ludicrous.

  6. #186
    anonymous
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    So considering this:

    Rename to: IFBB Bodybuilding/Fitness
    ---subforum Men's Physique

    How much posting pertains to the fitness disciplines, aren't most topics about bodybuilding?

  7. #187
    Registered User Unbiasedfan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ForumSentinel View Post
    So considering this:

    Rename to: IFBB Bodybuilding/Fitness
    ---subforum Men's Physique

    How much posting pertains to the fitness disciplines, aren't most topics about bodybuilding?
    Not sure what a fitness discipline is but most topics are about bodybuilding by far. Simply adding the MP subsect seems to make more sense

  8. #188
    Registered User TTimmerman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ForumSentinel View Post
    So considering this:

    Rename to: IFBB Bodybuilding/Fitness
    ---subforum Men's Physique

    How much posting pertains to the fitness disciplines, aren't most topics about bodybuilding?
    retain current name please, but the subforum is a start to a different section if time is ripe

  9. #189
    anonymous
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    Originally Posted by Unbiasedfan View Post
    Not sure what a fitness discipline is but most topics are about bodybuilding by far. Simply adding the MP subsect seems to make more sense
    As mentioned earlier in the thread, if we're going with IFBB disciplines as laid out: http://www.ifbb.com/our-disciplines

    There are bodybuilding, men and women's fitness and men's physique. If Men's physique has its own section, it makes sense the larger forum category would be IFBB disciplines.

  10. #190
    Registered User Unbiasedfan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ForumSentinel View Post
    As mentioned earlier in the thread, if we're going with IFBB disciplines as laid out: http://www.ifbb.com/our-disciplines

    There are bodybuilding, men and women's fitness and men's physique. If Men's physique has its own section, it makes sense the larger forum category would be IFBB disciplines.
    There are categories missing there. Women's physique, bikini and figure. Aside from bodybuilding, and some hot girl talk, the only one mentioned is men's physique. I never even knew there was such a thing as "men's fitness", and i've been following this section for years.

  11. #191
    Registered User TTimmerman's Avatar
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    retain current name with MP Subsection, althought that would cause a lot less traffic for them than a real subsection

  12. #192
    not considered normal pUniCepts's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RoroCwalker View Post
    I'm no statistics expert, but I believe you're under-estimating the traffic the whole IFBB sub-divisions can cause, especially if you include Bikini/Figure/Physique/Men's Physique.

    Again, these divisions are highly present on media outlets, having an actual section where they can respond to the questions and chat with their fans is a great bonus for us, them and bodybuilding.com.

    I'm not really sure about this but isn't Amanda Latona/ Nicole Wilkins/ Steve Cook associated with bodybuilding.com? Imagine the traffic they would generate.

    Men's Physique was introduced 2/3 years ago, Bodybuilding was introduced 50 years ago.

    A new section should have been put in place the moment Men's Physique made it's appearance, which is what is being done now, simply delayed.
    this section has been around for 10 years, with no separation of divisions. that means they're already included, so tell me more about generating traffic.
    why does it need it's own section when they can, and do, post about it here?

    Originally Posted by tsiparlanaeht View Post
    pUniCepts, I will say this with utter most humility and as humble as I possibly can since you are a mod on BB.com but just because you quote a wiki article on how to pronounce bodybuilding trying to give us a definition does not make you qualified to speak for this section. You are the minority, how often do you post here? You seem to have no grasp on this section or educated enough in bodybuilding in general. Maybe it's time to go back to the misc if you can't debate with us with constructive points to back up your argument and let Forumsentinel handle this.

    We are backing things up with facts and are voicing our opinion as a democracy.

    I applaud you for giving this your time, for looking at this and do appreciate it and I am not trying to come across as a dick. You do a good job in the misc but this is our home and our section.

    Forumsentinel thank you for your time and letting us voice our opinion, we are very humbled by the powers that be on this site listening to us.
    grasp on this section?

    "Forum: IFBB Pro Bodybuilding
    Here you can discuss pro bodybuilding contests and competitors! Chat with real IFBB pros."


    seems pretty straight forward, and nothing much else to grasp other than a few people in this section feel they're entitled to a separate section, even though their section is dead, and there is plenty of space to for all IFBB Pros. would you be happier if "Bobybuilding" was removed from the forum title?

    Originally Posted by TTimmerman View Post
    seriously why are you even in this discussion? every single post off you didn't make no sense, with arguments that have already been debunked twice in this thread and also some that are just childish . you're just coming of as a powertripping mod right now who isn't contributing at all

    (your reaction now will just prove my point)

    Can we please just continue this debate with Forumsentinel who is actually constructive as hell and open for this idea, thank you.
    Sentinel let's get back to one of your last posts; this section wouldn't be split in half at all... but creating a MP section would open the door to a lot more traffic and publicity for those guys.

    at the very least the best option would be like that in the misc where there are subsections on top like relationship advice etc for the different categories if you reckon an entire new subsection is far out right now
    how am I powertripping by voicing my opinion?

    No one debunked my statement about traffic. creating a new section doesn't open a door for new traffic, the door is already open. they can post here.

    Originally Posted by TTimmerman View Post
    stopped reading right here. apart from missing the point to why they could use their own section you also fail to realize the level of sacrifice/investment/commitment IFBB pro bodybuilding takes versus the walk in the park MP is. good that you don't post often
    you're an elitist, and that's all this is about. trying to sell a new section based on imaginary potential traffic, so you can have your own little section.
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  13. #193
    anonymous
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    Originally Posted by TTimmerman View Post
    retain current name with MP Subsection, althought that would cause a lot less traffic for them than a real subsection
    You keep bringing up about the traffic, and I understand the "if you build it they will come" philosophy, but the volume just isn't there. If it becomes clear that an entire forum category is needed because the new forum opened up the floodgates, we could approach it then. The misc subforums have more traffic than I'd imagine this MP section ever will, and they do just fine as subforums.

  14. #194
    king of atrophy Groggery's Avatar
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    You really achieve absolutely nothing by opposing for no reason other than not being convinced. What does it actually cost your team to add a subsection?

    Sentinel seems reasonable and willing to hear people out. You on the other hand have always acted contrary to other people's ideas for a long time. The misc has a few choice words for you too.
    People these days have more reps than brain cells

  15. #195
    anonymous
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    Originally Posted by Groggery View Post
    You really achieve absolutely nothing by opposing for no reason other than not being convinced. What does it actually cost your team to add a subsection?

    Sentinel seems reasonable and willing to hear people out. You on the other hand have always acted contrary to other people's ideas for a long time. The misc has a few choice words for you too.
    Dead sections split populations and are a visual eyesore. I don't see where adding a subforum and seeing how that works out first is an issue. It's still a step toward your request of giving MP it's own section.

  16. #196
    Registered User Unbiasedfan's Avatar
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    Was groggery banned for that last post?

    Its all about investment. People will be more compelled to post at a MP thread if it has its own forum than they are at a subsection. On the other hand, the risk of what you called "eye sore" its higher. Its risking "eye sore" for a possibility of bigger traffic and more pros (MP pros) to the forum. Whatever the choice made, it has its ups and downs.
    Last edited by Unbiasedfan; 07-11-2014 at 11:29 AM.

  17. #197
    Registered User TTimmerman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pUniCepts View Post
    you're an elitist, and that's all this is about. trying to sell a new section based on imaginary potential traffic, so you can have your own little section.
    wasn't the only one to mention traffic, in fact there were plenty others

    and yes i don't expect someone who doesn't compete to understand, if that makes me an elitist because i have a different pov and know exactly what the difference is between MP and Bodybuilding then so be it

  18. #198
    fapping into a volcano Exane's Avatar
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    Too much arguing and disagreeing to actually get anywhere at this point... why not experiment and try to see where the traffic is at and where it goes. Make a sticky or two, something like a general physique chat and possibly one for any pro's that want to come and post. If the guys that hate physique back off an keep the negativity out of the threads and the threads do take off, then we can visit the idea of a sub forum again.

    ****, it might breath some new life into this forum as a whole anyways. I got into the "sport" of bodybuilding through wanting to do physique and it just might get others into it as well. I dont care much for IFBB Physique anymore, but I do respect the hell out of most of the top guys.
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  19. #199
    not considered normal pUniCepts's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TTimmerman View Post
    wasn't the only one to mention traffic, in fact there were plenty others

    and yes i don't expect someone who doesn't compete to understand, if that makes me an elitist because i have a different pov and know exactly what the difference is between MP and Bodybuilding then so be it
    there's a difference between religion and politics; there's a difference between muscle cars and tuners, and racers and show cars. it doesn't matter what the difference is, or if someone doesn't appreciate or respect the other. the section is big enough to encompass all disciplines and not even approach fast moving.

    add Physique to the title. that will draw the same traffic that you think will come with a separate section. if it comes, then split them.
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  20. #200
    Poppin Rolaids like Candy PillClinton's Avatar
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    Tim, I hope you don't mind me stepping up and just saying a few words on behalf of you and some other people.


    Back up for just a minute and lets just summarize where we are at.


    The regulars of the IFBB Pro Forum are requesting a split from MP, Bikini, etc. boards, by having this forum specifically designed for professional men's Bodybuilding; specifically, the type of bodybuilding that competes for the Sandow, and the competition that Arnold, Ronnie Coleman, etc. compete in.
    - By specifying EXACTLY what kind of board and content on the board we are looking for, we move away from debating whether men's physique is bodybuilding or not. That debate doesn't even need to happen to have the outcome any of us want.


    Points to be taken from the above:
    A) the main source of traffic and content on this board are from regulars - they are the strong majority.
    B) I specified exactly what type of board these guys are looking for, because there is literally no point in debating "what is pro bodybuilding" when I can just spell out what we should be talking about


    One main problem with having a discussion surrounding the above request is that there are too many people trying to talk over one another.


    The key players who should be a part of this conversation are: The majority (the regulars on the IFBB board) and the deciding Moderator (the person who can actively approve, or deny the above request).


    These are literally the only two parties who should be taking part in this conversation moving forward if its going to continue being productive. Those who fall outside of those two parties, should understand, that whether they agree or disagree with the request, their input, and long-winded opinions, are only going to further destroy the process of a productive conversation that is important to many of the regulars here and will cause a lot of frustration (as it already has).



    Moving forward, I ask that ForumSentinel, if you will please summarize all of your reasons preventing you from approving our request (right now), so that the regulars can address your concerns in a collaborative manner and see if we can come to some sort of compromise



    Edit: Forumsentinel, I have heard that Mods can create "secret" forums that allow only a few select people to discuss topics. Would this type of forum be possible (for a short period of time) to host for a select few regulars (5-8?) so that we can cut out some of the white noise so that this conversation can move forward?
    Last edited by PillClinton; 07-11-2014 at 11:57 AM.

  21. #201
    anonymous
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    Originally Posted by Exane View Post
    Too much arguing and disagreeing to actually get anywhere at this point... why not experiment and try to see where the traffic is at and where it goes. Make a sticky or two, something like a general physique chat and possibly one for any pro's that want to come and post. If the guys that hate physique back off an keep the negativity out of the threads and the threads do take off, then we can visit the idea of a sub forum again.

    ****, it might breath some new life into this forum as a whole anyways. I got into the "sport" of bodybuilding through wanting to do physique and it just might get others into it as well. I dont care much for IFBB Physique anymore, but I do respect the hell out of most of the top guys.
    Originally Posted by PillClinton View Post
    Tim, I hope you don't mind me stepping up and just saying a few words on behalf of you and some other people.


    Back up for just a minute and lets just summarize where we are at.


    The regulars of the IFBB Pro Forum are requesting a split from MP, Bikini, etc. boards, by having this forum specifically designed for professional men's Bodybuilding; specifically, the type of bodybuilding that competes for the Sandow, and the competition that Arnold, Ronnie Coleman, etc. compete in.
    - By specifying EXACTLY what kind of board and content on the board we are looking for, we move away from debating whether men's physique is bodybuilding or not. That debate doesn't even need to happen to have the outcome any of us want.


    Points to be taken from the above:
    A) the main source of traffic and content on this board are from regulars - they are the strong majority.
    B) I specified exactly what type of board these guys are looking for, because there is literally no point in debating "what is pro bodybuilding" when I can just spell out what we should be talking about


    One main problem with having a discussion surrounding the above request is that there are too many people trying to talk over one another.


    The key players who should be a part of this conversation are: The majority (the regulars on the IFBB board) and the deciding Moderator (the person who can actively approve, or deny the above request).


    These are literally the only two parties who should be taking part in this conversation moving forward if its going to continue being productive. Those who fall outside of those two parties, should understand, that whether they agree or disagree with the request, their input, and long-winded opinions, are only going to further destroy the process of a productive conversation that is important to many of the regulars here and will cause a lot of frustration (as it already has).



    Moving forward, I ask that ForumSentinel, if you will please summarize all of your reasons preventing you from approving our request (right now), so that the regulars can address your concerns in a collaborative manner and see if we can come to some sort of compromise



    Edit: Forumsentinel, I have heard that Mods can create "secret" forums that allow only a few select people to discuss topics. Would this type of forum be possible (for a short period of time) to host for a select few regulars (5-8?) so that we can cut out some of the white noise so that this conversation can move forward?
    Probably my main hesitation for creating this section is one of exclusion, not inclusion. When I added automotive to the misc, it was because it was often asked for by users who wanted to discuss vehicles of all kinds. Thus, the content creators were already present. Here, it's the bodybuilding crowd that wants MP so they don't post in the main section, the content creators (being those would would post in MP) aren't asking for it. I don't doubt there would be some new life with a new section, but not as much as some of you might think, at least not initially. If the content creators were asking for it, I would be more inclined to immediately add it, because new threads/stickies/chats would be established quickly.

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    Originally Posted by TTimmerman View Post
    wasn't the only one to mention traffic, in fact there were plenty others

    and yes i don't expect someone who doesn't compete to understand, if that makes me an elitist because i have a different pov and know exactly what the difference is between MP and Bodybuilding then so be it
    your points are tantamount to a MLB forum having a sub-section of people who only played in college/minors debate the pro game, get over yourself lol

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    Originally Posted by ForumSentinel View Post
    Probably my main hesitation for creating this section is one of exclusion, not inclusion. When I added automotive to the misc, it was because it was often asked for by users who wanted to discuss vehicles of all kinds. Thus, the content creators were already present. Here, it's the bodybuilding crowd that wants MP so they don't post in the main section, the content creators (being those would would post in MP) aren't asking for it. I don't doubt there would be some new life with a new section, but not as much as some of you might think, at least not initially. If the content creators were asking for it, I would be more inclined to immediately add it, because new threads/stickies/chats would be established quickly.
    I just wonder if there are or have been some people who would post about Physique, but don't since this is the bodybuilding section. But then I think, well, if those people are around, they would probably be asking for their own section. My own opinion is that I do think they should be seperate.
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    Originally Posted by seanjoe0 View Post
    your points are tantamount to a MLB forum having a sub-section of people who only played in college/minors debate the pro game, get over yourself lol
    No, it's like a general baseball forum having separate subsections for MLB and softball

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    Originally Posted by seanjoe0 View Post
    your points are tantamount to a MLB forum having a sub-section of people who only played in college/minors debate the pro game, get over yourself lol
    We have threads created all the time posting footage or news from national level bodybuilders that are still amateur, and those are welcomed. Men's Physique is simply a different animal, and promotes mediocrity (conditioning/size).

    Don't get me wrong, there's some very impressive MP guys out there, but we (the regulars and avid fans of bodybuilding) are not here for that. We're here to see the human body pushed to the limit. The title "IFBB Pro" used to mean something. It used to mean that you were elite. Now it means that you took 2nd place in Class C, Section 14, Category 9-B, along with the other 200 guys that earned their "pro" status that day.

    Good luck with your upcoming figure competition. You go and get that pro card.
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    Originally Posted by seanjoe0 View Post
    your points are tantamount to a MLB forum having a sub-section of people who only played in college/minors debate the pro game, get over yourself lol
    next time read entire sentences, you completely missed the point

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    Originally Posted by masthead716 View Post
    We have threads created all the time posting footage or news from national level bodybuilders that are still amateur, and those are welcomed. Men's Physique is simply a different animal, and promotes mediocrity (conditioning/size).

    Don't get me wrong, there's some very impressive MP guys out there, but we (the regulars and avid fans of bodybuilding) are not here for that. We're here to see the human body pushed to the limit. The title "IFBB Pro" used to mean something. It used to mean that you were elite. Now it means that you took 2nd place in Class C, Section 14, Category 9-B, along with the other 200 guys that earned their "pro" status that day.

    Good luck with your upcoming figure competition. You go and get that pro card.
    Why even have a sub-section for it then? who is the audience? It seems as if no one here even respects forget about admires/follows Physique (including me), how can you justify the sub forum in a section of people that hate the topic

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    Poppin Rolaids like Candy PillClinton's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ForumSentinel View Post
    Probably my main hesitation for creating this section is one of exclusion, not inclusion. When I added automotive to the misc, it was because it was often asked for by users who wanted to discuss vehicles of all kinds. Thus, the content creators were already present. Here, it's the bodybuilding crowd that wants MP so they don't post in the main section, the content creators (being those would would post in MP) aren't asking for it. I don't doubt there would be some new life with a new section, but not as much as some of you might think, at least not initially. If the content creators were asking for it, I would be more inclined to immediately add it, because new threads/stickies/chats would be established quickly.
    Here is where the dilemma that comes up.

    I get that, if content creators asked, they could potentially receive.

    The issue is that the content creators of bikini, MP, etc. are fleetingly active participants of the board; they throw up a thread here and there about themselves or others, then leave (then a new one pops up, does the same, rinse/repeat). We churn through different people posting stuff about it each week (they then get ridiculed, but thats besides the point).

    In essence, because content creators of MP/bikiniare are transient, we (the ifbb forum regulars) can't establish a forum that doesn't warrant their "contributions" and you, as a moderator, will never get a request from them to have a sub-section.

    So you can see that, by having this requirement, its putting us in a bind. We can't have our needs/concerns met and neither can you because both of us are asking a inconsistent population for action. If there is going to be a compromise, or something to satisfy you, there needs to be another way of making a decision

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    Originally Posted by seanjoe0 View Post
    Why even have a sub-section for it then? who is the audience? It seems as if no one here even respects forget about admires/follows Physique (including me), how can you justify the sub forum in a section of people that hate the topic
    there is no point in even discussing this. You aren't a regular, you aren't a mod. You hold no weight, and bring nothing new to the table. I'm being blunt, and I think I need to be to get the point across that you aren't helping move this conversation anywhere outside of satisfying your own curiosity, which also means very little to the main parties involved.

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    Originally Posted by seanjoe0 View Post
    your points are tantamount to a MLB forum having a sub-section of people who only played in college/minors debate the pro game, get over yourself lol
    cliffs: i literally can't read
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