Sciencey Supplement Review: Cellucor N0 (N-Zero) Extreme

[BetterThanLife]

Product Description: http://www.cellucor.com/products/2-n0-extreme

This review will objectively discuss the evidence supporting each ingredient in the product, unlike many of the subjective testimonials that merely discuss their personal experience with a product. Below are the highlights of each ingredient taken from the full-length version of this review. The absurdly long description of each ingredient can be found here

INGREDIENTS

Arginine Nitrate
Arginine nitrate is a combination of nitric acid and arginine. According to the patent application, arginine nitrate may promote vasodilation through production of Nitric Oxide (NO) by two different pathways: the arginine citrullization pathway and the nitrate reduction pathway [http://www.google.com/patents/US7777074]. Given that arginine nitrate has yet to be studied, each component of this ingredient, arginine and nitrate, will be considered individually based on the available evidence.

Arginine
Multiple studies involving oral intake of L-arginine at dosages from 10-20 grams indicate no benefit with regards to increasing NO or enhancing blood flow [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7560599, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8797150, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12900683, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19276857].

The rationale for inclusion of L-arginine within pre-workout supplements is primarily based on research using intravenous L-arginine, often at dosages as high as 20-30 grams, rather than oral intake of L-arginine.

Only subjects with poor NO synthesis, such as patients at risk for atherosclerosis, are likely to benefit from L-arginine supplementation. It appears that L-arginine is a limiting factor for NO synthesis in patients at risk for atherosclerosis, but not for healthy individuals [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9799202].

Adding L-arginine to a pre-workout powder for purposes of increasing NO is not supported by the available literature.

Preparing to mix a serving of N0 Extreme in 8 ounces of water

Nitrate
NO is also produced independently of the L-arginine-NOS pathway through the ‘nitrate–nitrite–NO’ pathway. Nitrate and nitrite are the main precursors for NO synthesis in this alternative system.

The first study to show that nitrate supplementation may improve exercise efficiency was published in 2007 [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17635415]. In that study, nitrate ingestion resulted in a reduction of V̇O2 during submaximal work and a significant increase in muscular efficiency.

In a follow-up study, the same researchers reported that dietary supplementation with sodium nitrate for 2 days significantly decreased V̇O2 max at maximal combined arm and leg exercise, and this effect occurred with a trend toward increased performance [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19913611].

Dietary supplementation with nitrate-rich beetroot juice significantly reduced the O2 cost of exercise at the same submaximal work rate (i.e. improved exercise efficiency) and resulted in an extended time to exhaustion during high-intensity exercise. The authors stressed that the remarkable reduction in the O2 cost of submaximal exercise following dietary supplementation with inorganic nitrate in the form of a natural food product cannot be achieved by any other known means [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19661447].

A single dose of nitrate-rich beetroot juice improved 4-km performance time-trial performance by 2.8% and 16.1-km performance by 2.7%. Plasma nitrite was significantly increased 2.5 hours after supplementation, and systolic blood pressure was reduced, consistent with an increased NO bioavailability [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21471821].

Nitrate supplementation lead to lowered V̇O2 during submaximal exercise and improved 10-km time-trial performance [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22248502].

In contrast, several studies have reported no ergogenic effect of acute or short-term nitrate supplementation on exercise performance in highly trained endurance athletes.

“Highly trained subjects are likely to have high NOS activity, which might render the nitrate–nitrite–NO pathway relatively less important for NO production. Moreover, highly trained subjects may have higher plasma [nitrite] values than sedentary or lesser trained subjects, such that the response to a standard dose of nitrate may be diminished [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24791915]."

The minimum dose and duration of nitrate supplementation needed to elicit ergogenic effects remain largely unknown.

From the research cited above, it appears that dietary nitrate has the potential to reduce blood pressure, lower the oxygen cost of exercise, and, at least in some circumstances, enhance exercise capacity.

A peek inside the tub

L-Citrulline Malate
Citrulline malate (CM) is a mixture of citrulline, a non-essential amino acid, and malate, an intermediate component of the tricarboxylic acid cycle.

It has been indicated that oral citrulline is a more efficient way of increasing body arginine levels than oral arginine [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17693747, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15542514]. Two studies have shown an increase in plasma NO metabolites in endurance athletes with a single dose of CM (6 g) 2 hours before exercise [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19585317, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20499249].

In a rat model, resistance to fatigue was improved after CM treatment [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9164703]. In humans, supplementation with 6 grams of CM for 15 days led to a 34% increase in the rate of oxidative ATP production during exercise (finger flexions), a 20% increase in the rate of phosphocreatine recovery after exercise, and a significant reduction in the sensation of fatigue [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12145119].

To establish whether CM really improves exercise performance or not, researchers sought to determine the effect of supplementing with CM on a) performance in an anaerobic exercise of a high intensity comprising repeated sets of flat barbell bench press, and b) muscle soreness measured 24 and 48 hours following the high intensity exercise bout [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20386132]. The results of this study showed that ingestion of 8 grams of CM prior to the chest workout significantly increased repetitions performed by approximately 53% and decreased soreness by 40% post-workout.

While evidence is limited in humans, CM may increase lactate absorption, enhance ATP resynthesis, delay fatigue during intense exercise, increase performance in high intensity anaerobic exercises with short rest times, and relieve post-exercise muscle soreness.

Based on the evidence currently available, the best consumption pattern appears to be a single dose of 6-8g of CM taken 1 hour before exercise.

Size of the scoop

[BetterThanLife]

Continued...

Beta-Alanine
β-alanine is a non-essential amino-acid that is one of the precursors to carnosine. The most effective way to increase intramuscular carnosine concentration is through β-alanine supplementation. The elevation of muscle carnosine concentrations could provide a method of increasing intracellular buffering capacity during exercise, thus potentially providing a means of increasing high-intensity exercise capacity and performance.

Daily doses of 4.8–6.4 g of β-alanine can elevate human muscle carnosine content by 60% in 4 weeks and 80% in 10 weeks [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16554972, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16868650].

In one of the first studies, men supplemented with β-alanine (6.4 g/day) for 10 weeks [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16868650]. The total work done during a cycle capacity test at 110% of their maximal power increased following 4 and 10 weeks of b-alanine supplementation.

β-alanine supplementation, despite not enhancing maximal strength performance, resulted in a ~20% increase in total work volume in strength training sessions in well trained resistance athletes [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18548362].

β-alanine supplementation improved the 30-second sprint capacity by 11% at the end of a 2-hour simulated cycling race [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19276843].

Studies evaluating the effects of β-alanine supplementation on the onset of neuromuscular fatigue have been unanimous in demonstrating its ability in delaying fatigue. The most attractive explanation for these results is the less acidic environment inside muscle cells caused by a greater buffering capacity, which allowed subjects to attain a higher power output with a smaller lactate concentration.

On the other hand, when exercise protocols elicit a less extreme muscular acidosis (i.e., a single bout of exercise lasting less than 60 seconds or a single bout of exercises using small muscle groups), no effects of β-alanine have been observed [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17690198, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18548362, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18175046].

From the data available to date, it can be concluded that β-alanine supplementation elicits a significant ergogenic effect on high-intensity exercise, particularly when the exercise lasts between 1 and 4 min, whereas exercise of less than 60 seconds duration are not improved by β-alanine supplementation [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22270875].

Given that an increase in muscle carnosine content cannot be achieved by a single dose, but only following several weeks of supplementation, β-alanine will not contribute to performance improvements following the first use of N0 Extreme.

Standard supplementation advice is to supplement 4–6.4 g/day (divided over 0.8–1 g servings) for at least 4 weeks [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20199122].

After adding the scoop to water and prior to shaking

L-Norvaline
Empirical studies indicate that L-norvaline inhibits the enzyme arginase and thus decreases the rate of conversion of the amino acid arginine to urea [http://jb.oxfordjournals.org/content/86/3/745].

Research suggests that increased endothelial arginase activity decreases L-arginine availability for eNOS to produce NO under various pathological conditions [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16600160].

L-norvaline has been previously shown to improve endothelial NO release via inhibition of arginase [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15569838].

L-norvaline caused a 28% enhancement in NO production at the normal physiological level of L-arginine [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9458885].


BCAAs (L-Leucine, L-Isoleucine, L-Valine)
Please refer to this 4-Part Series on BCAA Supplementation

After 30 seconds of vigorous shaking

Caffeine
Caffeine is the most widely used drug in the world and is extremely common among all levels of athletes hoping to gain an ergogenic benefit.

The inhibition of adenosine receptors, including those in the central nervous system, appears to be the most likely mediator of caffeine's ergogenic properties [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12834577].

To date, many research trials have demonstrated caffeine to be an ergogenic aid for exercise of varying intensities, durations and modalities in an athletic population. Benefits associated with caffeine ingestion in this population include delayed feelings of fatigue [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1396643, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8904583]. reduced sensations of pain and exertion [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12235019], increased time to exhaustion [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1778925], increased fatty acid oxidation [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2583149], increased mean power output [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11079528], decreased times to complete a set amount of work [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16492607], stimulation of motor activity [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15095008], as well as an increase in alertness, feelings of subjective energy and ability to concentrate [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16822345].

Numerous studies have shown the efficacy of acute caffeine ingestion for improving prolonged endurance exercise performance [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15657469].

A large number of studies have also found improvements in endurance sports-specific performance including running, cross-country skiing, and cycling (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9132918 for a review).

Studies using caffeine to improve resistance exercise performance have been mixed.

The vast majority of studies have used caffeine doses in the range of 3–6 mg/kg taken approximately 1 hour prior to exercise. Trained athletes seem to benefit from a moderate dose of 5 mg/kg [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18708685]. However, even lower doses of caffeine (1.0–2.0 mg/kg) may improve performance [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12183495].

View from the top

Cinnamon Bark
Interest in this spice has increased since the discovery of its insulin potentiating properties and initial findings illustrating cinnamon’s ability to reduce fasting blood glucose and plasma lipids [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14633804].

In short-term studies of healthy individuals, ingestion of 3 to 6 g of ground cinnamon (or its equivalent in aqueous extract) at mealtime has been shown to significantly lower postprandial blood glucose and insulin concentrations [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17556692, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17924872, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19158209].

Despite its inclusion in N0 Extreme, there is no evidence that cinnamon improves exercise performance or that it boosts nitric oxide levels.


Theobromine
Theobromine, a methylxanthine, is found primarily in chocolate. Theobromine from cacao consumption significantly increases plasma HDL cholesterol levels, and decreases LDL concentration in plasma, conferring cardiovascular protection and reducing the risk of coronary heart disease [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21550218, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23595874].

A study assessed the effect of three theobromine doses (100, 200, and 400 mg) on mood and vigilance parameters [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23764688]. At every dose tested, theobromine failed to consistently affect mood state or vigilance. Using a higher dose, researchers found that 700 mg of theobromine lowered blood pressure, decreased self-report calmness, and increased subjects’ ratings of how interesting they found performance of study tasks [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21839757].

A study was conducted to investigate whether theobromine (700mg) and caffeine (120 mg) have a synergistic action on mood, attention, and blood pressure [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21839757]. Theobromine had no effect on alertness at any time, although it did decrease blood pressure. Therefore, it is possible that theobromine affects peripheral physiology, but lacks the strong CNS-activating properties of caffeine.

View from the bottom. Specks of cinnamon from the Cinnamon Bark ingredient can be seen

[BetterThanLife]

Continued...

Synephrine HCl
Synephrine is a mild stimulant and the primary protoalkaloid in bitter orange extract. Synephrine is thought to contribute to appetite suppression, increased metabolic rate and lipolysis [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15337824].

A five-hour human study involving 30 subjects demonstrated the thermic effect of orally administered p-synephrine (26 mg) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16076988], and another study showed that the oral administration of 50 mg p-synephrine increased resting metabolic rate with no effect on heart rate or blood pressure in humans [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21537493].

Nine studies involving the administration of bitter orange extract alone or in combination with other constituents demonstrated an increase in metabolic rate without an increase in heart rate or blood pressure. These results suggest that bitter orange extract and p-synephrine may be beneficial in weight management [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22991491].

Synephrine has emerged as a popular alternative to ephedra in dietary supplements, yet uncertainty has existed concerning the safety of bitter orange extract and p-synephrine. “The results involving both published and unpublished clinical studies indicate that p-synephrine alone or in combination with caffeine does not appear to produce significant adverse cardiovascular effects or pose a risk to human health at doses commonly ingested orally. No adverse effects have been directly attributable to bitter orange extract or p-synephrine [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22991491]."


Methyltyramine
Methyltyramine is the methyl analog of tyramine, a decarboxylation product of the amino-acid tyrosine. As far as I can tell, neither methyletyramine or tyramine has been studied as an oral supplement in humans, and thus the contribution it makes in this formula is unknown. Ironically, infusion of tyramine in humans has been shown to cause the release of stored monoamines known to cause vasoconstriction, such as norepinephrine, from sympathetic nerve terminals [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20237299]. Vasoconstriction is the narrowing of the blood vessels resulting from contraction of the muscular walls of the vessels, which is the opposite of N0 Extreme’s purpose of producing vasodilation.

Oxovanadium
I was unable to locate any published literature regarding the effects of oxovanadium as an oral supplement in humans, thus I am unable to determine its usefulness in N0 Extreme.


Vinpocetine
Vinpocetine is a cerebral vasodilator that dilates blood vessels to improve circulation to the brain [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2987571].

The reason for putting vinpocetine in N0 Extreme is to complement arginine nitrate, because research has demonstrated the ability of vinpocetine to limit nitrate tolerance [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11696475].


Vitamin C
In an attempt to minimize the effects of oxidative stress during physical activity, many athletes are supplementing with antioxidant vitamins, including vitamin C, which may be expected to enhance athletic performance by reducing the potential negative consequences of ROS.

Several major reviews support the general conclusion that vitamin C supplementation does not enhance physical performance in well-nourished individuals [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2695554, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2507696]. Antioxidant vitamin supplementation does not appear to lessen exercise-induced oxidative stress damage in humans [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10364419, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20086526].

Administration of vitamins C and E to individuals with no previous vitamin deficiencies had no effect on physical adaptations to strenuous endurance training. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20019626]. Vitamin C and E supplementation (500 or 1000 mg or IU per day) for four weeks does not reduce either biochemical or ultrastructural indices of muscle damage in experienced runners after a half marathon [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11774060].

Supplementation with vitamin C to prevent delayed-onset muscle soreness after exercise does not preserve muscle function and hinders the recovery process, thereby being detrimental to future performance [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16611389].

Although many athletes supplement with antioxidants in the belief they will reduce cell damage and attenuate fatigue during daily training, undertaking such practices may actually attenuate muscle adaptations to exercise training and impair the training-induced improvements in endurance performance.

Supplementation with vitamin C not only failed to improve, but partially decreased the improvement in V̇O2max associated with exercise training. Moreover, it very significantly hampered endurance capacity in animals [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18175748].

The inhibition of mitochondrial growth is one mechanism by which vitamin C impairs performance, given the important role that the mitochondria play in aerobic energy metabolism [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19433800]. Additionally, vitamin C may reduce exercise-induced blood flow, reducing exercise capacity and performance [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17114239].

The overwhelming consensus of a fairly large number of well-conducted investigations is that vitamin C has no ergogenic effect in persons who are not deficient in vitamin C [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10919971], and vitamin C supplementation does not improve physical performance in well-nourished athletes [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1895365].

The current recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for vitamin C is 90 mg/day for adult men age 19 or older and 75 mg/day for adult women. Athletes should obviously consume less than 1 g per day based on the evidence presented above.

Final Thoughts
It is reasonable to assume that the combination of ingredients in N0 Extreme’s formula will work synergistically, thus being more effective together than by themselves. The effects of combining arginine nitrate, citrulline malate, norvaline and vinpocetine has not been studied, but the combination is sure to increase circulating nitric oxide and result in an improvement in blood flow and muscle pump. The nitric oxide precursors, arginine nitrate and citrulline malate, may further increase circulating nitric oxide when used in conjunction compared to either ingredient alone. In addition, arginine nitrate may be enhanced by L-norvaline and vinpocetine. Norvaline enhances the vasodilating properties of arginine through the inhibition of arginase, whereas vinpocetine may promote the vasodilating properties of nitrates and limit nitrate tolerance. The formula also features a trio of stimulants to instantly boost energy, including caffeine, theorbromine, and synephrine HCl. Also, routine use of N0 Extreme may result in favorable effects on exercise performance over time, and this is particularly true for beta-alanine, which needs to be consumed on a regular basis in order to provide ergogenic effects.

Collectively, numerous studies have been conducted testing N0 Extreme’s ingredients in isolation, some of which reported positive findings related to the chosen outcome measures. While the data obtained from investigations focused on the study of individual ingredients are valuable for determining their usefulness, as well as the proper dosages, the effects of these multiple ingredients when used in combination is unknown. As with most nutritional supplements, the simple reality is that some individuals will respond better to treatment, while others will experience little benefit. In this case, individual experimentation is needed. However, given the power of the placebo effect [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19317519], it is reassuring to see objective data supporting the use of ingredients within a product, rather than relying on subjective testimonials and personal experience.

[The Solution]

How did the product aid your workouts?
How many scoops did you use prior to your workout and how did you set up your own dosing?
How were your workouts? how was the energy? Could you compare it to any other pre-workouts you have used in the past?
Did you note much difference from the c4 to N-Zero in your experience?
Eager to here how the product worked for you and the reaction you got, great detail on the ingredient profile.

[VaughnTrue]

How bout no BTL...how bout no...


I read all 3 posts(pages really) and I can barely tell what you think about the product.

[VaughnTrue]

I also thought company reps can't review other company products

[NaturalPursuit]

SOlID intro but like others said...how did you like the taste? effects? mixability?...need more detail

[TMac26]

I think BTL missed the part where in literature its discussed about L-Arg and Nitrate tolerance.


But what are you gonna do?

[eatyourspinach]

"Two studies have shown an increase in plasma NO metabolites in endurance athletes with a single dose of CM (6 g) 2 hours before exercise"

So I guess the other ingredients compensate for the 5-7 grams that aren't in this.

[TMac26]

Hey BTL, in response to your neg.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1572089/

Irrespective of these mechanistic uncertainties, these observations add l-arginine to the growing list of agents that have been shown to reduce nitrate tolerance in animal (vitamin C, ACE inhibitors, glutathione) and human (ACE inhibitors, beta adrenergic blockers, hydrallazine, N-acetylcysteine, dipyridamole) studies


There you go pal.

[The Solution]

I also thought company reps can't review other company products

Interesting, he worked the booth for Body nutrition / Tao Nutrition at the time at the Olympia. which was in september

[BlueRev]

Interesting, he worked the booth for Body nutrition / Tao Nutrition at the time at the Olympia. which was in september

[ig]http://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/p403x403/1385705_10151643339641924_493419874_n.jpg[/img]

[im]http://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/1380509_10100583405559487_1830634925_n.jpg[/img]

Even more so that his first thread back was a thread about the company he use to rep for /confused

Intrested to hear what greg has to say, I believe I was told before if you get caught with unbranded reps your company could be banned off the forums, not sure if this is still the rule.

@BTL you posted all that info, but didn't say much of what you thought of the product... or how you reacted...

[VaughnTrue]

Even more so that his first thread back was a thread about the company he use to rep for /confused

Intrested to hear what greg has to say, I believe I was told before if you get caught with unbranded reps your company could be banned off the forums, not sure if this is still the rule.

@BTL you posted all that info, but didn't say much of what you thought of the product... or how you reacted...

And they moved said thread to company promotion which means the mods know what is going on here. It's a holiday weekend, so can't expect them to be on 24/7. Has anyone reported the OP yet?

[BetterThanLife]

Interesting, he worked the booth for Body nutrition / Tao Nutrition at the time at the Olympia. which was in september

[img]http://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/p403x403/1385705_10151643339641924_493419874_n

[img]http://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/1380509_10100583405559487_1830634925_n

That was in September of last year, as you noted. I was going to be there anyways since I live nearby and the owner asked if I would help out at his booth. What's wrong with that? It has nothing to do with being compensated as a forum rep on a forum that I haven't posted on since early 2013.

On a side note, please ask before posting my personal photos on public forums, as it's not really appropriate to do.

[VaughnTrue]

That was in September of last year, as you noted. I was going to be there anyways since I live nearby and the owner asked if I would help out at his booth. What's wrong with that? It has nothing to do with being compensated as a forum rep on a forum that I haven't posted on since early 2013.

On a side note, please ask before posting my personal photos on public forums, as it's not really appropriate to do.

How are they personal if they're readily accessible online?

You put something online, it ain't private. Man up buttercup.

[AfroPope]

CLIFFS NOTES: Is this basically C4 without creatine?

[The Solution]

CLIFFS NOTES: Is this basically C4 without creatine?

Totally different formula's
Creatine Nitrate + 135mg Caffeine + 1.5g BA
Arganine Nitrate + higher Stim (150mg) + higher BA (2g) + L-Norvaline + Citrulline (1g)

[AfroPope]

Totally different formula's
Creatine Nitrate + 135mg Caffeine + 1.5g BA
Arganine Nitrate + higher Stim (150mg) + higher BA (2g) + L-Norvaline + Citrulline (1g)

Neat. I got bored about a quarter of the way through that word fortress.

[The Solution]

Neat. I got bored about a quarter of the way through that word fortress.

I am still looking for the review and use of the product myself.

[NaturalPursuit]

OP did you just post this as a type of supplement overview and breakdown of the formula? Not a review?

[The Solution]

OP did you just post this as a type of supplement overview and breakdown of the formula? Not a review?

Tough to tell since he is banned, but almost all his reviews are very similar in nature... Read the link in his signature, and his other reviews in the store on cellucor products. They dont even detail his use of the product, taste, mixability etc.

[NaturalPursuit]

Tough to tell since he is banned, but almost all his reviews are very similar in nature... Read the link in his signature, and his other reviews in the store on cellucor products. They dont even detail his use of the product, taste, mixability etc.

Ah now it all makes sense