Proof that the Nutmisc Lifts! (kinda)

[themonkay]

good stuff erik
lol'd hard at the morning kickstart


on another note, high rep squats are the devil


and by high rep i mean more than 5 lol

[TypeNirvash]

http://vid187.photobucket.com/albums...psb8a1e17f.mp4

Any Deadlift comments? Not a PR by any stretch, but did a couple of reps at the end of the workout so I could see whether or not I've developed.

[DAaaMan64]

Is there a reason why in your setup your shins aren't touching the bar? Your shins are so far from the bar that every rep after that you've moved the bar path closer to you. The starting position should have your shins touching the bar and your chest pulled up and pushed a little forward until your arms are in full extension. Try to get in this position without actually lowering the hips. It should actually feel pretty stupid.

I'm just flexing my knowledge here, so hopefully someone else will chime in.

Hey Da, have you tried high bar squats? I was going over your videos again and noticed you stick to low bar and thus lean in quite a bit to keep the bar parallel to your midfoot. Though you could always rest the bar lower than you normally would and not having to lean in so much to get it parallel.

I did high bar up until a few weeks ago, I switched to lower bar because it seemed like my back didn't have to do near as much work in low bar. Low bar seems to have it's fair share of problems though, I cannot seem to keep the weight out of my hands and my chest up, my wrists or thumbs hurt pretty bad depending on grip choice.

[TypeNirvash]

Is there a reason why in your setup your shins aren't touching the bar? Your shins are so far from the bar that every rep after that you've moved the bar path closer to you. The starting position should have your shins touching the bar and your chest pulled up and pushed a little forward until your arms are in full extension. Try to get in this position without actually lowering the hips. It should actually feel pretty stupid.

I'm just flexing my knowledge here, so hopefully someone else will chime in. .

Man, I just can't get this right

Back to the drawing board with this one.

[Lvisaa2]

Erik, should your OHP touch your chest each rep? And it looks like old dbag doesn't think lock out occurs until what looks like your last rep.

No hate, just learnin'. Nice liftin

IMO, no. OHP isn't a meet lift. Doing mostly good form and not the exact form is fine. If talking purely for hypertrophy or simply improving overall shoulder power then I think a reduced ROM actually is better. Look at any bodybuilder - no one does OHP full ROM and there's a reason. The lockout portion of the OHP focuses a very small amount of musculature comparatively to most of the rest of the movement. So a tiny part of the movement can severely limit your weight limit. If you can do 190x5 without going into full lockout, but can only do 175x3 doing full lockout then IMO, it is an easy choice.

As usual I am extremely flattered by all your guys' advice and help. It's motivating and I hope my continued efforts make the most of your efforts to help me.

I'm still reviewing the programs and trying to decide how to proceed.



I do have several, this is certainly not my worst sets, but here is a video of me working up to "failure":


Most of the time, I just end up doing a morning. From 2 minutes to 3:33 minutes is where I start doing mornings, finally giving up at 215lbs.

There is a PT at my gym who is a power lifter, I'm going to get his help with my squats tomorrow I think.

I have yet to ever have to dump a squat bar, though it looks pretty fun.

Your problem, IMO, isn't necessarily leg strength. Your either failing to keep your midsection tight or it lacks strength (likely a combination of both). This happens to me more with low bar + wide stance. It takes the emphasis off of my legs and puts it on my hips and lower back. You will limit your strength and your progression, because instead of making it into multiple muscles working inconjuction - you have to rely on two specific muscles. Also, it'll likely end up eating your hips. I can tell when I get too loose through a workout because I will have tighter hips and it makes my piriformis flare up, which then puts pressure on my sciatic nerve and causes me issues.

So then what can you do. First, I'd look at my foot positioning - both width and how your toes are pointing. The wider you go and the further your toes are pointed out, the more hip and lower back you'll be using. I'd contemplate bringing in your feet a touch and looking at toe positioning. IMO, the so you think you can squat series is great, but I think it also ended up breeding a more one-track mindset on squatting (especially around here). The greatest thing for my progression that I did was to bring my feet in some and keep my toes further pointed in. It helped me keep my core tighter.

Second, core strength. Work it. Hard. Lower back. Abs, but focus also on ab stability. Keeping your core tight isn't simply about being able to do 20 leg raises - it is about to be able to hold those raises. If nothing else, start incorporating holds in your ab work.

Third, work on your cues. When I go up to squat, I have my ritual. When I get to the bar, I literally jam it into the shelf. I can squat without even closing my hands around the bar, simply by applying enough pressure to push the bar onto the shelf. Second, after I lift the bar off and am in position. I puff my chest out. Literally, pushing my chest out and up. As you do this, you should feel your core tightening. Finally, I bring in the extra core tightness and begin the movement. Get your ritual, do it for every set. 225 or 450 - exactly the same. Same general tempo, same everything. You were taking more time for certain sets. Don't. Stop thinking more than you need to. You do the lift. Your focus is getting yourself into the correct position to do the lift THEN YOU DON'T THINK. After set up, you should be purely instinctual. Do you think about walking? No - so don't think about squatting. Get in your head and you'll destroy your focus, you'll have the bar sitting on you longer, and you'll lose tightness. If you want to get into your 'zone' then do it before lift off. After lift off, it should be pretty much robotic.

[DAaaMan64]

Man, I just can't get this right

Back to the drawing board with this one.

uhh hell no. waiiittt for others to chime in. The basics of your lift is fine and it's actually safe now. Sorry man, wasn't trying to say it sucked, just nitpicking it.

[StrikingMoose]

First legs day after two vacations, bout 10 days since last leg day squat down to 215 oops.

Good tips above, read them halfway through my sets and tried to incorporate.

[TypeNirvash]

uhh hell no. waiiittt for others to chime in. The basics of your lift is fine and it's actually safe now. Sorry man, wasn't trying to say it sucked, just nitpicking it.

Thanks, man... Considering the last couple times I posted form check videos, I get really discouraged with this lift. It's easily one of my worst lifts, and has really been conquering me (have been working very hard to get this right). I'm glad to know that it looks safer now. Was worried that I was still doing something unsafe, is all.

[Lvisaa2]

http://vid187.photobucket.com/albums...psb8a1e17f.mp4

Any Deadlift comments? Not a PR by any stretch, but did a couple of reps at the end of the workout so I could see whether or not I've developed.

Weight is too light for your form to break down. With lighter weight (obviously comparatively to what your max is) will enable you to have setup issues / form issues that won't manifest into actual issues. I agree with DA, you're too horizontal when pulling. I think this is actually a suitable alternative eventually, but I wouldn't experiment until you've learned your form and then are purposefully playing with it. You should be sitting into it more. Chest up, but you can't currently get it up, because the bar placement is too far away.

[Lvisaa2]

Thanks, man... Considering the last couple times I posted form check videos, I get really discouraged with this lift. It's easily one of my worst lifts, and has really been conquering me (have been working very hard to get this right). I'm glad to know that it looks safer now. Was worried that I was still doing something unsafe, is all.

You will always tweak form. It is a constant thing. Be safe, continue learning, and continue getting stronger. The greatest teacher is simply time under the bar (not really under here, but you get the drift). Someone can tell you a cue or how you should set up, but until you get under the bar and FEEL IT then it won't truly sink in. Then once it sinks in, you still have to work it until it becomes automatic.

[DAaaMan64]

Thanks, man... Considering the last couple times I posted form check videos, I get really discouraged with this lift. It's easily one of my worst lifts, and has really been conquering me (have been working very hard to get this right). I'm glad to know that it looks safer now. Was worried that I was still doing something unsafe, is all.

Well the 3 big lifts are actually pretty complicated. A hell of a lot more complicated than all the rando isolation lifts and cardio all the n00bs and bros are doing.

I am Indian And let me tell you, it's actually a great thing. Aren't you glad you don't go into the gym and shut your brain off for an hour or so like some cardio bunny? Aren't you glad your spending your time learning a complex topic? Learning how your body works? Counting macros, learning about form, forming an opinion, and spending so much reading people's thoughts on the lifts?

The complexity is keeping us interested, it's the hobby. As my squat form continues to suck, I try to remember this.

[TypeNirvash]

Thanks, Lvisa, and Da. I really appreciate the feedback from you guys. You're both totally right. I really needed to hear that.

Will certainly work on bar placement next time I do deadlifts--will make sure to place the bar closer to my shins and get my chest up. Would rep you both, but am on spread.

[themonkay]

Pretty much agree with everything lee is saying on the squat, except I always thought the so-you-think-you-can squat series was more for geared powerlifting (could be wrong here as i haven't watched it in like 2 years).

On top of that, standing there and waiting to squat after unracking it is one of the best ways to ensure a set goes to shyt imo. Not saying you should just unrack and drop, but the longer you stand there, the more you're tiring your core and lower back from stabilizing the weight, as well as the fact that your already succumbing to some mental defeat before even starting your set.

[themonkay]

Well the 3 big lifts are actually pretty complicated. A hell of a lot more complicated than all the rando isolation lifts and cardio all the n00bs and bros are doing.

I am Indian And let me tell you, it's actually a great thing. Aren't you glad you don't go into the gym and shut your brain off for an hour or so like some cardio bunny? Aren't you glad your spending your time learning a complex topic? Learning how your body works? Counting macros, learning about form, forming an opinion, and spending so much reading people's thoughts on the lifts?

The complexity is keeping us interested, it's the hobby. As my squat form continues to suck, I try to remember this.

you cheeky kunt...
das racist
never letting you in my cab

IDK, I actually hate analyzing my own form. Its not one of the things I enjoy about training, since I prefer to just be mentally zoned out during my workouts. I'd rather just move how I move, if something is uncomfortable or not getting me the results I want, then I will fix it from there.

[TypeNirvash]

you cheeky kunt...
das racist
never letting you in my cab

IDK, I actually hate analyzing my own form. Its not one of the things I enjoy about training, since I prefer to just be mentally zoned out during my workouts. I'd rather just move how I move, if something is uncomfortable or not getting me the results I want, then I will fix it from there.

I did not even see that, but I was curious as to why there was a space there. That's f***ing hilarious. Just died in my office.

[themonkay]

Still not sure how I feel about sumo-pulls. 365 by a pretty easy 2 reps yesterday after 315*8. I suspect I can get sumos to easily catch up to my conventional. Both actually feel very natural to me.

[TypeNirvash]

Still not sure how I feel about sumo-pulls. 365 by a pretty easy 2 reps yesterday after 315*8. I suspect I can get sumos to easily catch up to my conventional. Both actually feel very natural to me.

Dora?

>.> I don't see a problem with doing both.

[DAaaMan64]

I can't even think about writing "And let me tell you" without thinking of that damn misc copy pasta



I will really ramp up core work. Thanks guys.

[themonkay]

idk where the gif is from lol. some commercial

[Lvisaa2]

Aren't you glad you don't go into the gym and shut your brain off for an hour or so like some cardio bunny?

That's actually exactly what I do and one of the reasons I love the gym. It has always been an escape from my mind, which rarely happens elsewhere. I always ran with the motto - I train in the gym, I don't think in the gym.

I'm being lazy and I've posted about this a few times so I'm just gonna copy/paste. Obviously, the context was regarding training, but I touch on mindset.

"I've always done my own programs and I've almost always (although when doing more pure strength training then I had pretty set programming and tracked progress better) done intuitive training. Does your body run on a blueprint? Does your body say, I lifted x, y, and z so therefore, I should be able to lift t next week. No. I will say, to train intuitively and progress decently in strength, then one has to have a certain mind set. If you can go in a float through workouts, then it won't work well. I don't talk in the gym, I don't socialize, I don't rest. I'm there to lift and push my body.

My methods are far from conventional, but they have a very basic premise that I've always ran on. You push your body until it is completely done. And that's YOUR BODY, not your mind. People think too much when they lift. You plan, tweak, etc. outside of the gym. When you are in the gym, you should really shut your brain off. Your brain will give you doubts, fears, etc. Your brain works in the subjective realm. Your body works in reality. There is no, "I wonder if I can lift this for 6 reps." Your body says yes or no. Your brain says, "man I'm tired". Your body says I'm done. But I've always approached it differently than most. I see a lot of people go in and try to do the minimum. Well research says X is fine, so I'll do X then leave. Or I grow on Y, so I'll do Y then leave. Does pushing past that cause more growth/strength? Who knows, but it doesn't matter to me. I train that way because it is what brings me real drive in this. Yeah I have goals, but I started out with just a pure love of training. I didn't know anything about diet or programming. I went in and lifted heavy weights for 2-3 hours. I did heavy, high volume work, because it made me feel like I was doing something. That may be part of it. Lifting, training, dieting - it has always had a something qualitatively different to me, because it helped to save my life. When I say I don't know life without training, I mean it, because my life for the few years before that wasn't really living. I existed and I functioned (not so much at the end), but I wasn't there. This and my way of training has very much become ingrained as fundamental to my life."

[TypeNirvash]

^That's actually a very profound way to look at it.

You're right on a fundamental level. I don't think per say in the gym, unless it's about making sure my form is right. I mean, I will often reflect on the lift after I finish it in case I felt like I did something wrong.

But I would say that we do our fair share of thinking, though only about things happening in the now. Like, what to do when somebody is on the bench/equipment you're looking to use... Whether or not you'll work in, or work around. Things like that. But during the lift, you're right, often times the mind is empty aside from form issues if need be.

[themonkay]

This is why I really hate claiming that I'm doing 531, or Madcows, or whatever. I have followed countless routines and found a way to make it my own. Would my progress have been better if I had followed the programs exactly as written? Possibly. I dont know and I dont care. I've approached my routines by basing it off a certain method of progression, which I usually just rip off from a more structured program, and then add in a shyt ton of intuitive training. That's how I enjoy my training. I can't stand the idea that everything needs to be followed like a precise formula. "If I do X amount of sets for Y amount of reps, I should get Z amount of results." From a social standpoint, I hate talking with people in the gym. So much to the point that I'm considering just training in a hood to passively give off the vibe that I don't want conversation. That isn't to try to sound like a "badass" at all. Anyone who knows me IRL knows I'm the furthest thing from being a badass lol. That's just how I am when it comes to working on things that are related to improving myself. Even in college when I was studying for hours in a library (which is something I strongly relate to lifting on many levels), I hated taking more than 5 min to have a conversation with someone.

Anyways, this is probably why I try to almost never analyze my form in the middle of a workout. If I think something needs analyzing, i'll record it and look at it later. In the middle of a workout, so long as something isn't giving me pain, I really don't care if I fall kind of forward in a squat, or if my hips are too high when I deadlift, or if my ass comes a little off the bench when i'm benching.

just my .02 on how I approach my workouts

[Lvisaa2]

^^ I've been told I look like I'm angry when I workout, but others have told me it simply looks like I'm very focused. It is always interesting to meet people after they've seen me working out for a while. Then again, I think most people have a certain perspective of me when they first see me. My girlfriend even told me that she was gonna like refuse to give me the time of day because she automatically assumed things about me. She said yesterday I'm gonna confuse the hell out of the people in my doc program. And while that's true that most people don't connect the way I look with pursuing psychology at that level, I think if you begin to understand my motives then it makes perfect sense. Everyone takes it to be vain and while it is self-involved, it isn't completely vain. I train myself to model my body into the image I set forth for it. The same way I train my mind into the image I set forth for it. All of it is encompassed in embodening the greatest man I can be and that is hopefully the gift I'll be able to give to my family and my clients (greatest psychologist rather than man, although they aren't completely separable).

^That's actually a very profound way to look at it.

You're right on a fundamental level. I don't think per say in the gym, unless it's about making sure my form is right. I mean, I will often reflect on the lift after I finish it in case I felt like I did something wrong.

But I would say that we do our fair share of thinking, though only about things happening in the now. Like, what to do when somebody is on the bench/equipment you're looking to use... Whether or not you'll work in, or work around. Things like that. But during the lift, you're right, often times the mind is empty aside from form issues if need be.

I don't consider that thinking. That's a decision. Thinking for me is contemplative thought. Complete shut off is impossible. In truth, it is more aptly put as experiencing the here and now. It quiets my rather rampant mind to allow me to experience the moment. It is why I have a pull towards other things as well (meditation and real human interaction), because those experiences are somewhat spiritual in nature for me by allowing me to fully grasp the current happenings - to feel and to experience free of the mind's constant strain.

As for form correction, I don't think much. If I bojanked a set then I did. I just prepare for the next one the same as always. Maybe this is easier since I've been lifting for a while at this point, but I think I've always kind of done this. What's there to think about? You get loose, then stay tighter. There's no crazy magic or great analysis needed.

[Lvisaa2]

Furthermore, I think intensity and thought are somewhat contrary. If you can think through your whole workout then I think you're missing a level of intensity that you could go to. Not everyone wants/needs that, but I think when you truly are pushing yourself that it is removes you from the cognitive realm and places you in the physical realm. For example, I failed on PR DL a few days ago (a weight I feel like I should've got, but whatever). After the set, there was no way in hell I was gonna analyze form. In the video, I fail, stand up straight, then go to a knee, because I started getting tracers / losing my vision. Now, how are you gonna think after that?You don't. Was there some great analysis that needed to happen? Nope, I failed. I went along my workout the same way. Later on, I looked at the video and saw my hips shooting too fast, but at the time, there was no thinking. Hell, realistically, everyone values escape whether they find it through exercise, drugs, sex, music, whatever.

Now, does everyone need to find it in exercise? Nope, and maybe some people enjoy other aspects of lifting. I'll freely admit, while I'm analytical, I also highly value the experiential aspect of things and that likely plays a part in my pull towards that aspect ofiftinf.

[illiniStrive]

I just do what Eric tells me. It's worked out pretty well so far.

But really... used to try to do the brain shutoff thing during lifting, but it doesn't work for me. Doesn't mean I'm obsessing over what I'm doing... the plan is set, all that's left is to do it - or not. But I can't tune out the world. I think about my plans for the rest of the day, a thesis I'm developing, people that need to be contacted, approaching deadlines, a book I just read etc. Same when I'm running. It (can) actually be relaxing because by the time I walk out I've sorted out something or another and am ready to take on the day. Versus fretting about this stuff outside of the gym which feels unproductive because here I am pacing trying to work something out... but in the gym at least I get some sets out of it, ha. Sometimes I'll actually stop working on something the night before because I know when I get into the gym the next morning (plus I'm just a morning thinker in general) it'll come to me.

The pure energy, pure emotion, pure anger when lifting never works for me. When I try to amp myself up for a lift I perform poorly. The whole jump up and down, head shaking, music blasting, huff&puff, lets-make-a-show-of-it just doesn't work. Which is not to say it never will. Competing more might get me to feel differently. A competition situation is much much different than the gym.

[themonkay]

There's always going to be people that assume you're vain. There's no escaping that. As a side note, I certainly would love to compete at PL meet someday (although its just really not a priority, or something I would alter my schedule for), but I've also always hated the purist attitude from those who are lifting with zero physique-related goals and who speak condescendingly of someone with those goals.

The more I think about form in a set, the more my form suks lol. At the same time, on days where I just go in for cardio, I have practiced form with light-medium weight, and that has helped tremendously.

[themonkay]

I just do what Eric tells me. It's worked out pretty well so far.

But really... used to try to do the brain shutoff thing during lifting, but it doesn't work for me. Doesn't mean I'm obsessing over what I'm doing... the plan is set, all that's left is to do it - or not. But I can't tune out the world. I think about my plans for the rest of the day, a thesis I'm developing, people that need to be contacted, approaching deadlines, a book I just read etc. Same when I'm running. It (can) actually be relaxing because by the time I walk out I've sorted out something or another and am ready to take on the day. Versus fretting about this stuff outside of the gym which feels unproductive because here I am pacing trying to work something out... but in the gym at least I get some sets out of it, ha. Sometimes I'll actually stop working on something the night before because I know when I get into the gym the next morning (plus I'm just a morning thinker in general) it'll come to me.

The pure energy, pure emotion, pure anger when lifting never works for me. When I try to amp myself up for a lift I perform poorly. The whole jump up and down, head shaking, music blasting, huff&puff, lets-make-a-show-of-it just doesn't work. Which is not to say it never will. Competing more might get me to feel differently. A competition situation is much much different than the gym.

I think that's a good approach too. Essentially its just using a training as a driver to stimulate some good productive thinking.

I don't really like amping myself up for a lift. At least not very often. That's a tool that I think should be used sparingly, or else it loses its value. I really have no idea how to describe my approach besides saying its focus-without-thinking.

I do need my music though. Gym sounds (commercial gym) irritate the fuk out of me.

[illiniStrive]

Furthermore, I think intensity and thought are somewhat contrary. If you can think through your whole workout then I think you're missing a level of intensity that you could go to. Not everyone wants/needs that, but I think when you truly are pushing yourself that it is removes you from the cognitive realm and places you in the physical realm. For example, I failed on PR DL a few days ago (a weight I feel like I should've got, but whatever). After the set, there was no way in hell I was gonna analyze form. In the video, I fail, stand up straight, then go to a knee, because I started getting tracers / losing my vision. Now, how are you gonna think after that?You don't. Was there some great analysis that needed to happen? Nope, I failed. I went along my workout the same way. Later on, I looked at the video and saw my hips shooting too fast, but at the time, there was no thinking. Hell, realistically, everyone values escape whether they find it through exercise, drugs, sex, music, whatever.

Now, does everyone need to find it in exercise? Nope, and maybe some people enjoy other aspects of lifting. I'll freely admit, while I'm analytical, I also highly value the experiential aspect of things and that likely plays a part in my pull towards that aspect ofiftinf.

Lol I didn't even read this before I posted

Oops, guess I don't train hard enough

I don't fully agree w/ the cognitive / physical dichotomy you've set up. But I follow your argument.

[DAaaMan64]

Back from the PT.

So the good feedback:

> I've got the bar wayyyy too low on low bar squats. It isn't between my traps and delts at all.
> I had my feet pointed out too far, what I thought was my toes tracking over my knees was not that at all.
> Back needs to up and engaged.
> He said the problem isn't necessarily leg strength, just form.
> He gave me a couple of good warm up routines for my squats.
> I need 1-on-1 attention for your squats and need to completely re-learn how to squat.
> He suggested higher volume and a recomp diet for 6 months. (echo monkay, lol)
> After seeing my terrible squat he insisted on seeing my deadlift and bench, saying he was going "blow those out of the water" also.
>> He observed me deadlift 135x5 and while doing a 360 said "that's actually good."
>> He observed me bench 95x5 (lol) and was like... That's good too.

Unfortunately, being a PT and salesman, he was not so humble about any of this. Using annoying marketing and fear mongering like:
> Everything needs to change.
> I'm going to blow your mind on nutrition.
> I need 1-on-1 attention for your squats and you need to completely re-learn how to squat for the next 6 months.
> I should be benching at least 225 for 10 by now.
> Internet programs will only take you to where you are now, you've been on that 5x5 for way too long.

Also, the cost was 1500 dollars for 19 sessions, of which he wanted 4 a week. uhhh no

So if you ignore all the usual PT crap, I got some useful feedback and help outa the free session.

[Lvisaa2]

Lol I didn't even read this before I posted

Oops, guess I don't train hard enough

I don't fully agree w/ the cognitive / physical dichotomy you've set up. But I follow your argument.

Realistically, any dichotomy is a false one. I'm generalizing my experience which isn't wise. For me, intensity engenders non-thinking. Although, I think it depends on your definition of intensity as I think I could make a biological argument that certain intensities actually do utilize energy sources / activate portions of the brain which are not associated with higher cognitive functioning, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to do so and it isn't going to be in line with everyone's definition of intensity. When I get talking/ranting, I tend to get a bit more rigid than what is true to what I actually think. People can and do succeed in different manners.

Btw, I don't really do emotion lifting or amp up things. If you look at my IG and the DL video, I'm pretty calm. I've always worked best from a place of serenity. Even for sports, never a **** talker or anything like that. It's like a calm determination or something