How do I get below 7%?? in desperate need of help, is it possible without stimulants?

[xplicid01]

I started my cut 3/3/2014 at 215lbs ~17% body fat. As of today, 6/18/2014 I am 185 7.4% bf. Im pleased with the results but at the beginning of May I was 9.4, so ive lost 2% bf in the past 6 but only .5 in the past 2 weeks.

I am currently doing a carb/calorie cycle routine of High, low, no.....:
high carb days 2447 calories. 183.7 grams of protein, 275.6 grams of carbs, 57.9 grams of fat. Carb meals with breakfast, before and after workout + 1 more throughout the day. handful of broccoli with all non carb meals
low carb days 2047 calories 183.7 grams of protein, 180.3 grams of carbs, 57.6 grams of fat. Carb meals with breakfast, before and after workout. handful of broccoli with all non carb meals
no carb days 1462 calories 183.7 grams of protein, 4.6 grams of carbs, 73.5 grams of fat. handful of broccoli with all meals.

My sources of Macros are:
Protein: whey protein, eggs, chicken, talapia and london broil
Carbs: sweet potato, yam and brown rice
Fat: Eggs, Almonds, Udos 3.6.9, Fish oil and CLA

Training/Cardio:
M,T,TH,F,S training: back, chest, legs, shoulders and biceps. I absolutely murder myself in the gym. lift heavy doing about 12-16 sets per body group
40 minutes of fasted cardio 5x weekly with BCAAS.


This is the first time ive really gone at a cut with proper knowledge but in the past I ran EC throughout with success and enjoyed the stimulation. This year, at 11% bf, I tried something a little stronger wink wink "vitamin C" and it hit me HARD, couldnt even take half of what I was instructed and discontinued after 5 days. When I went back to EC, I had no tolerance, as if the Vitamin C fried my adrenals or something because I couldnt take EC either. I can barely manage 1 scoop of c4, where before i was taking 2 heaping scoops. That being said, stimulants are out.

Ive been pushing myself extremely hard. I know cutting isnt easy but im at the point where I have no energy, I feel like sleeping all day, at points im even light headed and just dont feel 100%. Ive been told this happens as you near the end of a cut and start tapping into fat reserves. with limited stimulants im just not sure I will be able to get past 7%.

any help is appreciated at this point, im not trying to get in contest shape but i would love to be at 5% turning heads at the beach! are there any wholes? is is possible without stims? Can i get to 5%? are the symptoms im experiencing normal or a sign that I need to adjust something?

below is pic at ~8 from 2 weeks ago

[Serpentarius]

keep carbs high all the time, you will lose fat faster. Pretty easy, just stop eating so much and dont go over your calorie limit. You just gotta tough it out really, getting low bodyfat is pretty easy.

[Hardworker33]

^^^^^
What Serpentarius said.

You have to suck it up. I know how you feel, been there done that. ( and currently feeling exactly like you)

Good luck

[beepjeep]

How do you eat "no" carbs? Egg whites and coffee all day?

[TreFo]

that looks %10 BF not 8


simple, refeed more often (or go on a maintenance/bulk for a couple of weeks to stabilize leptin levels) then continue and while cutting in single digit territory lower ur caloric balance so that defecit levels are closer to -200 kcals than the standard -500 advised on these boards

[iabs]

low carbs (below 100g) has worked for me in the past, but I'd concentrate on building your chest, you have zero chest man.

[Mysterion27]

keep carbs high all the time, you will lose fat faster. Pretty easy, just stop eating so much and dont go over your calorie limit. You just gotta tough it out really, getting low bodyfat is pretty easy.

Why do you say to keep carbs high? just curious

[Serpentarius]

Why do you say to keep carbs high? just curious

Need to do some research and how it effects thyroid.

[Mysterion27]

Need to do some research and how it effects thyroid.

Interesting! I have been on low carbs for months and had decent progress but these last 10lbs are a mother fooker to get rid of

[xplicid01]

^^^^^
What Serpentarius said.

You have to suck it up. I know how you feel, been there done that. ( and currently feeling exactly like you)

Good luck

It would be easier to do if I knew what i was doing was working. I see the number on the scale go down, my muscles shirking and all my lifts going down along with feeling lethargic i start to wonder if im doing it wrong. I do appreciate the encouragement.

that looks %10 BF not 8


simple, refeed more often (or go on a maintenance/bulk for a couple of weeks to stabilize leptin levels) then continue and while cutting in single digit territory lower ur caloric balance so that defecit levels are closer to -200 kcals than the standard -500 advised on these boards

it could possibly be 10%, only a 3 point caliper test is what I have used and my legs are ridiculously lean so that could throw things off.

either way, this is more along the lines of what i was thinking, im dieting too hard that my body has slowed its metabolism or something. Ive read into Layne Nortns refeeds where you essentially eliminate fat for a day, protein down to 1gram per lb and the rest carbs... up to 3k.

are there specific carbs that need to be eaten that day? ive heard pancakes and mapple syrup ive heard the standard stuff. I think leptin might be the issue

low carbs (below 100g) has worked for me in the past, but I'd concentrate on building your chest, you have zero chest man.

Its a glaring weak point, I get it. Its frustrating, i murder it in the gym and ive accepted its not going to come naturally. The odd part is, its the sorest muscle after every workout, I know im hitting it, I can put up 100lbs on incline for 8. Ive tried higher rep ranges, barbells vs dbs and have had little success.

Need to do some research and how it effects thyroid.

is there any particular article you are referring too that you wouldnt mind sharing.



So, im very appreciate of all input and after reading here are my questions:
Where can i find more information about refeeds? is this pretty much universally accepted or debated? How often is Leptin discussed on the board?
Can i get there without ECA? is its absolutely essential to have the aid of stimulants to accomplish bf in the single digits.
Is there a trusted weekly caloric calculator that the board generally uses? i want to quickly review it.

[Serpentarius]

is there any particular article you are referring too that you wouldnt mind sharing.



So, im very appreciate of all input and after reading here are my questions:
Where can i find more information about refeeds? is this pretty much universally accepted or debated? How often is Leptin discussed on the board?
Can i get there without ECA? is its absolutely essential to have the aid of stimulants to accomplish bf in the single digits.
Is there a trusted weekly caloric calculator that the board generally uses? i want to quickly review it.

Just scientific research in general, its largely irrelevant as worrying about what goes on inside the body wont really help.

As far as refeeds, the best way is trial and error, however optimal guidelines are:

0.8g protein per lb of lbm
0 fat (impossible but lower it as much as you can)
rest of calories from carbohydrates all the way to maintenance calories.

It is fine to go slightly over calories for that day as when glycogen is not saturated calories in vs calories out isnt true but since you will never know when saturation occurs, maintenance is optimal. The published information about leptin shows it declines just as fast as it rises, refeeds are more so useful for longevity of a continued deficit, and performance. It WILL slow a deficit down but the time you are not in a deficit so thats the drawback but its *almost* essential for a sustained deficit for a natural lifter.
Yes you can easily get there without any stimulants, i only use caffeine as a preworkout since i lift in the AM and it brings focus/alertness when i dont have the time to get it on my own by waking up.

As far as calculators, the best thing is trial and error, general rule of thumb is every 50 calories below maintenance every day (over a week) equates to 1/10 lb loss, its hard to see with water changes so a month or slightly more of recording data will show where you should be at.

From personal experience i will tell you that the leaner you get, the frequency at which a real refeed is done should increase. This is my opinion but i personally would do once a week at 11 and 10%, once every 6 days at 9%, once every 5 days at 8%. To me it sorta restores the fatigue and weakness, along with low blood sugar issues that i seem to get but it incrementally gets worse the leaner i/you may get. Also IMO its NOT mentally healthy to be below like 9% if you experience those symptoms because it can interfere with your life and job, someone like me without a social life can get by fine lol