Proof that Islam was demonically inspired.

[Harbinger]

YOUR ARMS ARE TOO SHORT TO BOX WITH GOD.

Because my arms don't reach all the way into imagination land.

[MinisterOfLust]

Because my arms don't reach all the way into imagination land.

[GregariousWolf]

Good exegesis. but that is Shemp

I know that's Shemp, not Curly. Shemp can be Bahai or Sihkism or something?

[lasher]

Lawl it was pretty clear Hitler was a Christian (but i don't think a huge factor in him gaining the power he did).

I don't think that is as clear as you think it is.


"Hitler had been brought up a Catholic and was impressed by the organization and power of the Church. For Protestant clergy he felt only contempt: 'They are insignificant little people, submissive as dogs...[-] They have neither a religion you can take seriously nor a great position to defend like Rome'. It was the 'great position' of the Church that he respected; towards its teaching he showed only the sharpest hostility. In Hitler's eyes, Christianity was a religion fit only for slaves; he detested its ethics in particular. Its teaching, he declared, was a rebellion against the natural law of selection by struggle and the survival of the fittest." - Alan Bullock; Hitler, a Study in Tyranny; HarperPerennial Edition 1991; p219




The political leader should not estimate the worth of a religion by taking some of its shortcomings into account, but he should ask himself whether there be any practical substitute in a view which is demonstrably better. Until such a substitute be available only fools and criminals would think of abolishing the existing religion.

— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf



The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble. All that's left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and the inorganic. When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.

— Adolf Hitler, from Hitler's Table Talk (1941-1944)



When one thinks of the opinions held concerning Christianity by our best minds a hundred, two hundred years ago, one is ashamed to realise how little we have since evolved. I didn't know that Julian the Apostate had passed judgment with such clear-sightedness on Christianity and Christians.... the Galilean, who later was called the Christ, intended something quite different. He must be regarded as a popular leader who took up His position against Jewry... and it's certain that Jesus was not a Jew. The Jews, by the way, regarded Him as the son of a whore—of a whore and a Roman soldier. The decisive falsification of Jesus's doctrine was the work of St. Paul.... Paul of Tarsus (his name was Saul, before the road to Damascus) was one of those who persecuted Jesus most savagely.

— Adolf Hitler, per transcript appearing in Hitler's Table Talk

The Fuhrer is deeply religious, though completely anti-Christian. He views Christianity as a symptom of decay. Rightly so. It is a branch of the Jewish race. This can be seen in the similarity of their religious rites. Both (Judaism and Christianity) have no point of contact to the animal element, and thus, in the end they will be destroyed. The Fuhrer is a convinced vegetarian on principle.

— Goebbels Diaries, 29 December 1939

[uwootm8]

What we established is that is it likely, and also perfectly reasonable that anachronisms are in the text due to scribal updates of the names of cities and locations.



Yes lots of things a plausible. The point is what can be demonstrated. The Torah as a literary whole is cohesive. It does not have the marks of additions outside of anachronistic updates of names/locations.

Edit: Really, in the end it doesn't matter if Moses specifically wrote one piece of the Torah or didn't. Jesus confirmed that the OT was the word of God. The OT Jesus confirmed is the same one we have now. Jesus had the authority of God. Therefore the Torah, the writings, and the prophets are, as Paul says, - 2

Timothy 3:16-17
New King James Version (NKJV)

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Well it looks like bad news for jews

The thing is, IMO there are additions and changes. Like when noah curses canaan when he was seen naked. Canaan has nothing to do with the incident. That doesn't make sense. Nor does aaron making the golden calf. Why would someone contacted by God be stupid enough to do that? Etc. In the end thats subjective though.

[PrettyPinkDonut]

I don't think that is as clear as you think it is.


"Hitler had been brought up a Catholic and was impressed by the organization and power of the Church. For Protestant clergy he felt only contempt: 'They are insignificant little people, submissive as dogs...[-] They have neither a religion you can take seriously nor a great position to defend like Rome'. It was the 'great position' of the Church that he respected; towards its teaching he showed only the sharpest hostility. In Hitler's eyes, Christianity was a religion fit only for slaves; he detested its ethics in particular. Its teaching, he declared, was a rebellion against the natural law of selection by struggle and the survival of the fittest." - Alan Bullock; Hitler, a Study in Tyranny; HarperPerennial Edition 1991; p219




The political leader should not estimate the worth of a religion by taking some of its shortcomings into account, but he should ask himself whether there be any practical substitute in a view which is demonstrably better. Until such a substitute be available only fools and criminals would think of abolishing the existing religion.

— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf



The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble. All that's left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and the inorganic. When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.

— Adolf Hitler, from Hitler's Table Talk (1941-1944)



When one thinks of the opinions held concerning Christianity by our best minds a hundred, two hundred years ago, one is ashamed to realise how little we have since evolved. I didn't know that Julian the Apostate had passed judgment with such clear-sightedness on Christianity and Christians.... the Galilean, who later was called the Christ, intended something quite different. He must be regarded as a popular leader who took up His position against Jewry... and it's certain that Jesus was not a Jew. The Jews, by the way, regarded Him as the son of a whore—of a whore and a Roman soldier. The decisive falsification of Jesus's doctrine was the work of St. Paul.... Paul of Tarsus (his name was Saul, before the road to Damascus) was one of those who persecuted Jesus most savagely.

— Adolf Hitler, per transcript appearing in Hitler's Table Talk

The Fuhrer is deeply religious, though completely anti-Christian. He views Christianity as a symptom of decay. Rightly so. It is a branch of the Jewish race. This can be seen in the similarity of their religious rites. Both (Judaism and Christianity) have no point of contact to the animal element, and thus, in the end they will be destroyed. The Fuhrer is a convinced vegetarian on principle.

— Goebbels Diaries, 29 December 1939

Intradasting, doesn't really detract from the point of my post though.
Hitler was a smart dude, but basically voiced (or at least confided with others around him) what I expect to be the thoughts of many major power players throughout history.

[lasher]

This. I believe in 1999 or something the Catholic Church met with the Lutheran church and discussed their agreement on the doctrines of salvation. They signed something stating they agreed - that there was actually nothing to "protest" about anymore. There are a lot of Churches now who are beginning to rediscover the historical importance of apostolic succession and to re-embrace the sacraments. In fact my own home church's head pastor was just made a bishop by the Anglican Church that had its direct tie in to the Catholic Church.

Christianity is starting to unify again; it is once again becoming Christs Church as we come together unified in Jesus Christ. I believe the current Pope is a huge sign of hope in the reunification of the "Catholic" (which really just means universal) Church. Eastern Orthodoxy, Catholic, Evangelical, Charismatic... We all follow the apostles creed, we all believe the same gospel, but the Church was always meant to grow out of a place of community and fellowship - not of isolation. That is starting to happen all around the world.

Calmwind, sola scriptura is not a biblical principle. The Church is a real living thing and what the bible is is simple established Canon, but it was birthed out of the same Church you now bring slander against. Any church can suffer from unhealth (read revelation for example and the churches that Christ writes to). What Roman Catholicism suffers from are simply remnants of Roman influence... But in that case evangelicalism as we see predominately in North America suffers it's own set of cultural influence: Christians in Canada or the states are some of the most complacent unengaged Christians in the world.

I'm not Catholic by the way, but they are in every way our brothers and sisters. I think the apostles creed is actually the dividing line of heresy and orthodoxy for the most part:


I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.

And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; he descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic Church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. AMEN.

Don't know how I missed this gem. Post of ecumenical peace. On spread.


Here is the agreement you were referring to between catholics and lutherans.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/po...ration_en.html

This is just the end part:

5. The Significance and Scope of the Consensus Reached

40.The understanding of the doctrine of justification set forth in this Declaration shows that a consensus in basic truths of the doctrine of justification exists between Lutherans and Catholics. In light of this consensus the remaining differences of language, theological elaboration, and emphasis in the understanding of justification described in paras. 18 to 39 are acceptable. Therefore the Lutheran and the Catholic explications of justification are in their difference open to one another and do not destroy the consensus regarding the basic truths.

41.Thus the doctrinal condemnations of the 16th century, in so far as they relate to the doctrine of justification, appear in a new light: The teaching of the Lutheran churches presented in this Declaration does not fall under the condemnations from the Council of Trent. The condemnations in the Lutheran Confessions do not apply to the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church presented in this Declaration.

42.Nothing is thereby taken away from the seriousness of the condemnations related to the doctrine of justification. Some were not simply pointless. They remain for us "salutary warnings" to which we must attend in our teaching and practice.[21]

43.Our consensus in basic truths of the doctrine of justification must come to influence the life and teachings of our churches. Here it must prove itself. In this respect, there are still questions of varying importance which need further clarification. These include, among other topics, the relationship between the Word of God and church doctrine, as well as ecclesiology, ecclesial authority, church unity, ministry, the sacraments, and the relation between justification and social ethics. We are convinced that the consensus we have reached offers a solid basis for this clarification. The Lutheran churches and the Roman Catholic Church will continue to strive together to deepen this common understanding of justification and to make it bear fruit in the life and teaching of the churches.

44.We give thanks to the Lord for this decisive step forward on the way to overcoming the division of the church. We ask the Holy Spirit to lead us further toward that visible unity which is Christ's will.

Similar work is happening with catholics and eastern orthodox.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/po...avenna_en.html

JOINT INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION FOR THE THEOLOGICAL DIALOGUE
BETWEEN THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH AND THE ORTHODOX CHURCH

ECCLESIOLOGICAL AND CANONICAL CONSEQUENCES
OF THE SACRAMENTAL NATURE OF THE CHURCH

ECCLESIAL COMMUNION, CONCILIARITY AND AUTHORITY

Ravenna, 13 October 2007


Introduction

1. “That they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me” (Jn 17, 21). We give thanks to the triune God who has gathered us – members of the Joint International Commission for the Theological Dialogue between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church - so that we might respond together in obedience to this prayer of Jesus. We are conscious that our dialogue is restarting in a world that has changed profoundly in recent times. The processes of secularization and globalization, and the challenge posed by new encounters between Christians and believers of other religions, require that the disciples of Christ give witness to their faith, love and hope with a new urgency. May the Spirit of the risen Lord empower our hearts and minds to bear the fruits of unity in the relationship between our Churches, so that together we may serve the unity and peace of the whole human family. May the same Spirit lead us to the full expression of the mystery of ecclesial communion, that we gratefully acknowledge as a wonderful gift of God to the world, a mystery whose beauty radiates especially in the holiness of the saints, to which all are called.


Continued ...


..
..


......


Conclusion

45. It remains for the question of the role of the bishop of Rome in the communion of all the Churches to be studied in greater depth. What is the specific function of the bishop of the “first see” in an ecclesiology of koinonia and in view of what we have said on conciliarity and authority in the present text? How should the teaching of the first and second Vatican councils on the universal primacy be understood and lived in the light of the ecclesial practice of the first millennium? These are crucial questions for our dialogue and for our hopes of restoring full communion between us.

46. We, the members of the Joint International Commission for the Theological Dialogue between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church, are convinced that the above statement on ecclesial communion, conciliarity and authority represents positive and significant progress in our dialogue, and that it provides a firm basis for future discussion of the question of primacy at the universal level in the Church. We are conscious that many difficult questions remain to be clarified, but we hope that, sustained by the prayer of Jesus “That they may all be one … so that the world may believe” (Jn 17, 21), and in obedience to the Holy Spirit, we can build upon the agreement already reached. Reaffirming and confessing “one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Eph 4, 5), we give glory to God the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who has gathered us together.

[Weightaholic]

Atheists killing more people in one century in genocide than every other century combined. Btw, the offenses I named appear just about exclusive to atheists. Deal with it.

Salem Witch Trials (which really put dat dere religious logic on display). Your turn.

[CalmWind]

Salem Witch Trials (which really put dat dere religious logic on display). Your turn.

Tiananmen Square Massacre.

[Ancients]

Tiananmen Square Massacre.

uhh..

one was about democracy, not atheism

the other was religious whackjobs killing people they thought possessed by satan

[_Ryan_]

uhh..

one was about democracy, not atheism

the other was religious whackjobs killing people they thought possessed by satan

Forgive CalmWind here, he's a little on the "special" side.

[lasher]

Well it looks like bad news for jews

The thing is, IMO there are additions and changes. Like when noah curses canaan when he was seen naked. Canaan has nothing to do with the incident. That doesn't make sense. Nor does aaron making the golden calf. Why would someone contacted by God be stupid enough to do that? Etc. In the end thats subjective though.

It is subjective. I'm glad you see that. Still, as I said, for christians, Christ confirmed the OT in its final written form. We therefor accept it in its final written form.

[whatisbro]

Well it looks like bad news for jews

The thing is, IMO there are additions and changes. Like when noah curses canaan when he was seen naked. Canaan has nothing to do with the incident. That doesn't make sense. Nor does aaron making the golden calf. Why would someone contacted by God be stupid enough to do that? Etc. In the end thats subjective though.

It is possible that Canaan himself had been involved directly in the incident and that his father Ham had failed to correct him. Or Noah, speaking prophetically by inspiration, foresaw that the bad tendency in Ham, perhaps already manifest in his son Canaan, would be inherited by Canaan’s offspring.

Aaron made the Golden calf because the Israelites had just came out of the land of Egypt and were exposed to paganism. They grew impatient waiting on instructions of God through Moses so they choose to worship an Idol. Aaron was pressured into doing it.

[Weightaholic]

Tiananmen Square Massacre.

Sorry, not done for "atheistic" reasons. Try again.

[HELIX35]

Tiananmen Square Massacre.

You might literally be retarded

[uwootm8]

It is possible that Canaan himself had been involved directly in the incident and that his father Ham had failed to correct him. Or Noah, speaking prophetically by inspiration, foresaw that the bad tendency in Ham, perhaps already manifest in his son Canaan, would be inherited by Canaan’s offspring.

Aaron made the Golden calf because the Israelites had just came out of the land of Egypt and were exposed to paganism. They grew impatient waiting on instructions of God through Moses so they choose to worship an Idol. Aaron was pressured into doing it.

Look, a lot of these ways of tying together contradictions and strange stories in the bible are explained away rather fancifully. The explanation about Canaan's story is not in the text at all.

A lot of these are carried by the notion that the Torah is indeed divinely inspired.

As for Aaron's story, I suppose it's plausible if you have that idea of God's prophets, but the documentary hypothesis explains it pretty well, srs. Same reason why God punished Miriam but not Aaron for both of them criticizing Moses.

Interesting discussion, let's try something.

Who sold Joseph, the Midianites or the Ishmaelites?

[lasher]

Look, a lot of these ways of tying together contradictions and strange stories in the bible are explained away rather fancifully. The explanation about Canaan's story is not in the text at all.

Utterly subjective.

As for Aaron's story, I suppose it's plausible if you have that idea of God's prophets, but the documentary hypothesis explains it pretty well, srs. Same reason why God punished Miriam but not Aaron for both of them criticizing Moses.

http://christianthinktank.com/wbadgirl.html

Who sold Joseph, the Midianites or the Ishmaelites?

http://www.tektonics.org/lp/midish.php

[Queequeg]

Atheists killing more people in one century in genocide than every other century combined. Btw, the offenses I named appear just about exclusive to atheists. Deal with it.

Religious people existing and therefore rustling jimmies forcing atheists to do what they do best

[CalmWind]

Sorry, not done for "atheistic" reasons. Try again.

Atheists don't have to believe in the sanctity of human life. That's enough of a reason.

True Christians and Jews do not commit Murder, as commanded by the Creator of all things.

An Atheist can do whatever he likes, as he is not bound by anything. As such, he has the potential so see humans as unimportant animals, easily disposed of if they become a nuisance. You have people ITT saying "Hitler was a Christian" as if Christianity has anything to do with killing people. If that's the brush we will use, then any wrong doing an Atheist does, I can blame on his atheism.

I'd have much better philosophical and legal ground to accuse an Atheist because of the reasons I gave, than anyone would have accusing Christianity..... simply because Christianity expressly forbids atrocities, murder, and any harm to fellow humans.


So.... Tiananmen Square Massacre.

[boseador]

Religious people existing and therefore rustling jimmies forcing atheists to do what they do best

How does homicide know that the crimes were committed in the name of atheism? Why not in the name of non stamp collectors, or anti realists when it comes to time, space, etc?

[Neceseco]

even if someone kills 1 billion people in the name of atheism, atheists are still faultless, for there is not an holy book of atheism

[Tamorlane]

Many faiths claim theirs to be the one true faith. To test them for ourselves, we can see whether following these faiths lead to harm or non-harm. Regardless of what you believe, all beings seek pleasure and happiness while avoiding harm.

A significant dilemma is that people don't realize what they are following/believing leads to harm. These are the ways one harm's ones self: delusion, greed and hatred. Delusion is not seeing things as they really are. From this ignorance, comes the self; "I am", "me", "mine". From these thoughts, comes greed or hate. And from these thoughts comes 'my religion', and all conceit that comes along with the hypocrisy of the self.

From delusion comes greed and hate. From greed and hate comes arguing, bickering, insults, attacks, etc. Such is the on-going state of our world.

So when we look at atheists, muslims, hindus, jews, christians, buddhists, etc. we can see for ourselves whether the following of these teachings, rules and worldviews leads these people to harm or non-harm. If I see a Muslim arguing for their side, attacking others, etc. it is clear that their worldview is distorted. But this is the same problem for all humans. All are bound by ignorance, greed and hate. Which is why it all depends on where people are born, and they simply latch onto that as 'their' side. Greedy people only see one side of things.

The 'demon' is within. The mind's passion for sense pleasures. Drawing toward pleasurable sounds, sights, smells, tastes, feelings and thoughts. When all things are impermanent, subject to decay, engaging with these phenomena bring harm to ourselves. It's true that people, when acting like fools, go about as their own worst enemies.

As for Islam being demonic, all religions are essentially wrong in the same way: classification of self (which is also never properly let alone even addressed by philosophers). From an incorrect classification of self comes greed and hate. From greed and hate comes lying, stealing, violence, killing, and all 'evil' and unskillful actions that plague the world.

And by arguing for each side, the condition perpetuates.

[Ransom17]

Many faiths claim theirs to be the one true faith. To test them for ourselves, we can see whether following these faiths lead to harm or non-harm. Regardless of what you believe, all beings seek pleasure and happiness while avoiding harm.

A significant dilemma is that people don't realize what they are following/believing leads to harm. These are the ways one harm's ones self: delusion, greed and hatred. Delusion is not seeing things as they really are. From this ignorance, comes the self; "I am", "me", "mine". From these thoughts, comes greed or hate. And from these thoughts comes 'my religion', and all conceit that comes along with the hypocrisy of the self.

From delusion comes greed and hate. From greed and hate comes arguing, bickering, insults, attacks, etc. Such is the on-going state of our world.

So when we look at atheists, muslims, hindus, jews, christians, buddhists, etc. we can see for ourselves whether the following of these teachings, rules and worldviews leads these people to harm or non-harm. If I see a Muslim arguing for their side, attacking others, etc. it is clear that their worldview is distorted. But this is the same problem for all humans. All are bound by ignorance, greed and hate. Which is why it all depends on where people are born, and they simply latch onto that as 'their' side. Greedy people only see one side of things.

The 'demon' is within. The mind's passion for sense pleasures. Drawing toward pleasurable sounds, sights, smells, tastes, feelings and thoughts. When all things are impermanent, subject to decay, engaging with these phenomena bring harm to ourselves. It's true that people, when acting like fools, go about as their own worst enemies.

As for Islam being demonic, all religions are essentially wrong in the same way: classification of self (which is also never properly let alone even addressed by philosophers). From an incorrect classification of self comes greed and hate. From greed and hate comes lying, stealing, violence, killing, and all 'evil' and unskillful actions that plague the world.

And by arguing for each side, the condition perpetuates.

Cool story bro. Your point only makes sense if you already only accept a Buddhist world view. Otherwise to everyone else it is simply a bunch of statements