Full Body vs. Split Training

[BillabongVolcom]

In all honesty, which do you think is the best?

Doesn't science back full body over split routines?

I've always heard that for gaining as much mass as fast as possible stick to a full body workout based around compound lifts. Then once you have all the "mass" that you want then you can switch to a split workout and focus more on the body-parts.

[GoJu]

Originally Posted by BillabongVolcom

In all honesty, which do you think is the best?

Doesn't science back full body over split routines?

I've always heard that for gaining as much mass as fast as possible stick to a full body workout based around compound lifts. Then once you have all the "mass" that you want then you can switch to a split workout and focus more on the body-parts.

they both have their strengths and weaknesses and some people just prefer one over the other, for me personally I like training the entire body as a unit as I feel it garner's more functional strength, some don't believe in the term and think you gain just as much strength doing splits, I disagree, but whatever.

I personally don't think split are any more 'advanced' than a full body routine is, but really it all boggles down to personal preference, you'll be able to 'concentrate' more on a particular muscle group with the split routine but that's assuming that isolation is the best stimulation.

[SpyWizard]

muscle is built while you are at rest, and end goals are achieved by have well defined goals, preferable written out..

All over body workout is superior in many ways..

But if you have a lagging body part (shoulders, calf, thigh, chest) only spot, or split routines will put more mass on that area..

Stress
Feed
Rest
Grow

the formula to a bigger better you..

[RipStone]

This topic has been beaten to death. I am sure if you do some searches you will come across many threads with passionate debates on this subject. Really the bottom line is (you read for the secret to prolonged muscle and strength gains cus here it comes......)

















...... use whatever system that will add weight to the bar in the fastest way for YOU!!!

BTW, here are a two t-nation articles about TBT vs. splits....

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=933431
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1333967
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1335480 (part 2)

[Liquidtensi0n]

From training for a performance (read: strength) point of view, full body or upper/lower is definitely the way to go. But bodybuilders + lots of drugs get away with all kind of suboptimal splits. But that's not to say some splits aren't good... as long as you are getting at least 2x a week frequency on all the lifts (or muscle groups if you will).

[hell-bent 2]

Originally Posted by Liquidtensi0n

From training for a performance (read: strength) point of view, full body or upper/lower is definitely the way to go. But bodybuilders + lots of drugs get away with all kind of suboptimal splits. But that's not to say some splits aren't good... as long as you are getting at least 2x a week frequency on all the lifts (or muscle groups if you will).

x2, am I wrong in saying to train like a bodybuilder you should first get strong all over and mass all over then work on the little points?

I see so many people on here say "My front delts are lagging" or "My upper inner chest won't grow", and I get confused because why should someone worry about that at such an early stage in lifting?

[illestmiccheck1]

I prefer full body for bulking, and splits for cutting.

[VikingMan]

Originally Posted by RipStone

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1333967

I've been looking for that article for ages.

Thanks Rip.

Full body FTW!

[ksheab]

the "what works for u is whats best" philosophy is, imo, the most haphazard and intellectually dishonest answer towards the science of muscle-building.

the giveaway that ill concede is the fact that there r everyday situations that may effect one person from the other.

the physiologies we all have r almost identical. and we arent talking about the abnormal.

[SpyWizard]

Originally Posted by illestmiccheck1

I prefer full body for bulking, and splits for cutting.

and that's the way it should be..

[RipStone]

Originally Posted by VikingMan

I've been looking for that article for ages.

Thanks Rip.

Full body FTW!

Originally Posted by hell-bent 2

x2, am I wrong in saying to train like a bodybuilder you should first get strong all over and mass all over then work on the little points?

You got it right! I posted this in another thread, but I think it might help shed some more light on this point...

Even if your goal is to look like a BBer, you should seek strength first and foremost. Once you get to a respectable level of strength, then start doing BBing specific workouts. Then and only then, will these workouts actually be effective since you have built the strength to use loads in the hypertrophy range that will actually yeild decent size.

A few quotes on this subject...

Training strength before hypertrophy has grate benifits because strength recruits more motor units and more motor units means the muscle trained becomes more acceptable to that weight (stronger). By getting a stronger muscle you are able to lift more weight and when in a hypertrophy phase more weight lifted means more actin and mosin recruitment which brings on more muscle size.

source: http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=10891

First things first, until you have a solid strength base that is all you should be worried about. At this stage strength = size. What is a fair strength base? Well, powerlifters will laugh at the numbers, but for a typical bodybuilder you should be at least at these figures before you even need to start thinking about pure hypertrophy work:

A bench of at LEAST 250-315 lbs for at least a few reps
Dipping with at LEAST 50-75+ strapped to your waist for 6-8 reps
Rows and/or pull-downs with at LEAST 200-275 for 6-8 reps
Military or dumbbell shoulder press with at LEAST 150-175 for 6-8 reps
Squatting/deadlifting at LEAST 350-450 for 6-8 reps

These figures have spreads in them because we are not all the same size. A 5?6 guy will not USUALLY have the same strength potential and therefore doesn?t need a 450 lb squat to be considered advanced. The lower numbers work well for shorter lighter guys, the higher ones for taller heavier lifters. And they are ranges only, I know some guys that squat and deadlift in the 500?s that can barely do 225 for 5 bent rows. That doesn?t mean they are not advanced, just that their bent rows need work?lol.

source: http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/at...6&d=1162830980

[mrdiaz]

People here like to bash magazines BUT there was an article I had from flex that actually agreed with this thread. Basically it said beginners should use fullbody, and then transition into upper/lower push/pull routines (where you work half your body one day and the other half the next). Split routines where for advanced after you've had some experience under your built. And even those were divided into 2 muscles per workout.

[BillabongVolcom]

So basically it all boils down to adding weight to the bar? If your not adding weight to the bar you aren't going to be getting bigger muscle right? Say your lifting in the 6-8 rep range, once you can get 8 solid reps with that weight, add 5-10lbs to the bar next workout and repeat the process until you can get 8 reps again, etc. Correct?

[VikingMan]

Originally Posted by BillabongVolcom

So basically it all boils down to adding weight to the bar? If your not adding weight to the bar you aren't going to be getting bigger muscle right? Say your lifting in the 6-8 rep range, once you can get 8 solid reps with that weight, add 5-10lbs to the bar next workout and repeat the process until you can get 8 reps again, etc. Correct?

You CAN get bigger without getting stronger. But for the most part, it is only achieved through adding volume, and there's an inherent upper limit to how much volume can realistically be added.

As to HOW you get stronger, doesn't really matter, as long as it happens. If you're having a hard time getting stronger, then you need a means of periodizing your program. Like tinkering with rep ranges, or weekly poundage ramping, or lift swapping, something like that.

[BOLT.]

Fullbody is best for newbs IMO so you can add weight to the bar 3x a week on squat, and 1-2 times a week for everything else. This is pretty much as fast as one can possibly add.

If you're going to do a split, I suggest upper/lower. In doing the same upper and lower routines 2x a week.

Now, for intermediates and advanced athletes, things get way more complicated.

Like dominik said, do whatever adds weight to the bar for you!

[RipStone]

Originally Posted by mrdiaz

People here like to bash magazines BUT there was an article I had from flex that actually agreed with this thread. Basically it said beginners should use fullbody, and then transition into upper/lower push/pull routines (where you work half your body one day and the other half the next). Split routines where for advanced after you've had some experience under your built. And even those were divided into 2 muscles per workout.

I am sure there is some good info from BBing mags. But the majority of it is crap.

[RipStone]

Originally Posted by BOLT.

Like dominik said, do whatever adds weight to the bar for you!

I thought I said that......

[BOLT.]

Originally Posted by RipStone

I thought I said that......

Ripstone.... dominik.... same guy.....

[WestBeast]

I think that full body workouts are better for adding mass and weight. Then, when you are satisfied with your mass switch to a split routine. Here's a great mass building routine.
Tire Pull- Warmup
DB Bench 1 x 8-12
Seated Cable Row 1 x 8-12
Step-Ups 1 x 20 (each leg)
DB Military 1 x 8-12
Bicep Lat Pull 1 x 8-12
DB Squat 1 x 8-12
Chin-Ups 1 x 8-12
Ax Chop 1 x 8-12 (both sides)
Hyperextensions 1 x 8-12

Do this 3 times a week for 3 weeks. Try to increase reps during the week. Then each week increase weight.

If this works you can alter the exercises a little and do the same process

[(no radnes)]

Originally Posted by WestBeast

I think that full body workouts are better for adding mass and weight. Then, when you are satisfied with your mass switch to a split routine. Here's a great mass building routine.
Tire Pull- Warmup
DB Bench 1 x 8-12
Seated Cable Row 1 x 8-12
Step-Ups 1 x 20 (each leg)
DB Military 1 x 8-12
Bicep Lat Pull 1 x 8-12
DB Squat 1 x 8-12
Chin-Ups 1 x 8-12
Ax Chop 1 x 8-12 (both sides)
Hyperextensions 1 x 8-12

Do this 3 times a week for 3 weeks. Try to increase reps during the week. Then each week increase weight.

If this works you can alter the exercises a little and do the same process

Age: 17
Stats: 6'0", 161 lbs

o hai yoda
teach me the ways, you must

[WeightGain_4000]

out of all the threads...this one had to be revived

[Vadjio]

Originally Posted by VikingMan

I've been looking for that article for ages.

Thanks Rip.

Full body FTW!

yo! agreed, for mass, Full Body's and strength programs are the way to go. for cutting i'd use a 2 days 4 times a week high intensity low volume split or something like that.

[WestBeast]

Originally Posted by (no radnes)

Age: 17
Stats: 6'0", 161 lbs

o hai yoda
teach me the ways, you must

yea i lost some weight recently...nothing wrong with being healthy

[TAWS6]

Both have their place. One thing I have noticed is alot of advanced body builders use splits more than full bodys because they need to focus more on individual muscles. I usually will run splits for 3 months, then do a full body for a month and go right back to splits. You just need to find what you respond to.

[shaneee]

I personally like splits better but that's just me.

[Vadjio]

Originally Posted by shaneee

I personally like splits better but that's just me.

whatever works and feels good to you

[rusty1313]

Definately agree that its what works for you
i started on a full body workout then moved to a split did that for a long time and it worked, reached a point where i was happy with mass and wanted to drop some fat so i moved to a full body routine supersetting between muscle groups and limiting rest worked really well although took forever so changed it up do chest back monday, shoulders arms tuesday, legs wednesday, chest back thursday, shoulders arms friday and mix up the abs

[Al Swearengen]

it's not about which ones better it's about which ones better for you.

[rocketman44]

You can give both a try. I sometimes switch back and forth just for a change of pace.

One disadvantage (for me) to full body - doing 3-6 sets per group is just not enough stimulation for some of the bigger muscle groups.

On the other hand, total volume over the course of the week can be just the same (or even more), so it depends on what you're trying to achieve and what will challenge you the most.

[jgreystoke]

Fullbody has the advantage that it forces you to abbreviate your program when you are moving more iron. You just can't fit two many exercises into your monday routine after you've squatted, benched, and rowed.

Also prevents you from training consecutive days. So plenty of recovery.

A simple upper/lower split is great too.

Trouble is most people go on split programs prematurely. And they are often seduced by the notion that since they ain't hitting the same body part on consecutive days, they can train 6 days a week with 10 exercises per day.

I have energy issues for reasons that go far beyond my age. Even abbreviated fullbody like squat/bench/row, dead/press/clean is not too much for me.

So at the moment I do

Day 1. Clean and push press, pendlay row, tri pushdown, curl.

Day 2. Trap bar dead. Leg ext, leg curl if I feel like it

Day 3. Light military press, power clean, close grip bench, hammer curl.

Day 4. light front squat, good morning.

Grip and abs and calves and neck are fitted in whenever. They don't cut into recovery much.

So we have a simple upper/lower split using the old heavy/light system. Pumping blood into the old muscles without traumatizing them seems help me recover for the next heavy session better than complete rest.

Very flexible. When feeling energetic the days are something like

mon/tues and thurs/fri

But it can be

mon, wed, fri, mon

or whatever is required for recovery for this old dinosaur

So I've seen gains on fullbody, and on a simple split. I use low reps most of the time. Either triples or fives. When I want more volume I usually just do more low rep sets.

What I don't ever envisage doing is a complicated 5 or 6 day split with mostly isolation exercises. Training suicide for this ol' codger