Why didn't my cut go well? :( Please help

[GreyArea]

From April (164lbs):



Today (149lbs):

What am I doing wrong? As a skinnyfat dude, I followed the standard advice - clean bulk first, then cut. Which is what I did. And there was no change. ARRRRGH. And I have been skinnyfat for 2 freaking years.

Guys I am really confused. I think I am doing everything right - lifting 3x a week, eating correctly, etc. And my 164lbs pic testifies that I had at least some muscular foundation. Why did it vanish when I cut?

And what do I do now???

[droostead]

I think the most important thing here is to define what you mean by "eating correctly". What were your macros/TDEE when you cut?

The second pic is a little hard to see, but you might be surprised at how little muscle you actually had. I remember on my first cut I was pretty disappointed when my arms stopped filling out my sleeves, but that was mostly because I only had fatceps. I'm not saying that's the case with you, but it could be a contributing factor to your disappointment.

[Mysterion27]

I cant see your second pic but you dropped 15lbs so i can only assume you lost some muscle mass ! How was your diet? Post your macros! I started out skinny fat myself 8 months ago and iam still skinny fat despite losing a vast amount of fat, Also seem to have virtually no muscle so it does take time but you seemed to of had a decent amount of mass so i can only assume your diet was off or your training wasnt hard enough! Post both your macros and your routine and iam sure someone else can help you out ;-)

[pkahnman]

[GreyArea]

I cant see your second pic but you dropped 15lbs so i can only assume you lost some muscle mass ! How was your diet? Post your macros! I started out skinny fat myself 8 months ago and iam still skinny fat despite losing a vast amount of fat, Also seem to have virtually no muscle so it does take time but you seemed to of had a decent amount of mass so i can only assume your diet was off or your training wasnt hard enough! Post both your macros and your routine and iam sure someone else can help you out ;-)

Sure. I am doing ICF 5x5. As for macros, I aim for ~50g of fat, 100-120g of protein, and the rest carbs. I basically follow the recommended amount given by MyFitnessPal. On the bulk I tried to aim for a +250 surplus, and on the cut I tried to aim for a -500 deficit.

[Mysterion27]

Sure. I am doing ICF 5x5. As for macros, I aim for ~50g of fat, 100-120g of protein, and the rest carbs. I basically follow the recommended amount given by MyFitnessPal. On the bulk I tried to aim for a +250 surplus, and on the cut I tried to aim for a -500 deficit.

Theres your problem right there! You should be getting at least 70g of fat and 150 - 160 g protein MINIMUM in my opinion! Maybe even more protein given you were on a cut! Have you had your body fat % checked before and after?

[davidolson22]

This

[GreyArea]

Theres your problem right there! You should be getting at least 70g of fat and 150 - 160 g protein MINIMUM in my opinion! Maybe even more protein given you were on a cut! Have you had your body fat % checked before and after?

I did not! That is a ton of protein...any tips on getting that much? I can't consistently afford healthy meats and protein shakes.

I did not get it checked before and after, but I suspect I was at 18% before and am now around 15%.

[Serpentarius]

What am I doing wrong? As a skinnyfat dude, I followed the standard advice - clean bulk first, then cut. Which is what I did. And there was no change. ARRRRGH. And I have been skinnyfat for 2 freaking years.

you followed bad advice, you werent skinnyfat, you were untrained and fat, you have little muscle and bulking as a novice is a bad idea. Get to 10%, then lift until noob gains run out, then slow bulk.

[GreyArea]

you followed bad advice, you werent skinnyfat, you were untrained and fat, you have little muscle and bulking as a novice is a bad idea. Get to 10%, then lift until noob gains run out, then slow bulk.

I was 15% with no mass, which is skinnyfat, isn't it?

So when you say "get to 10%", do you mean cut or recomp?

[Serpentarius]

recomps dont really work, big deficit.

[GreyArea]

recomps dont really work, big deficit.

At 10% I will be around 135lbs...

[Serpentarius]

At 10% I will be around 135lbs...

What is the problem? thats a normal weight for an untrained guy without any muscle. You wont start off with a lot of muscle unless you are genetically blessed.

Being skinnyfat isnt really an issue, try having to lose 100 lbs dude, not just a small handful...cut and get it over with. Complaining about your weight is assuming you SHOULD have a lot more muscle mass from the start, it doesnt work like that.
What are your lifts like? If you are still fairly weak what was your routine? Poor programming will also yield poor results.

[davidolson22]

If you are still fairly weak what was your routine? Poor programming will also yield poor results.

He said ICF, but not what his lifts are up to.

[GreyArea]

What is the problem? thats a normal weight for an untrained guy without any muscle. You wont start off with a lot of muscle unless you are genetically blessed.

Being skinnyfat isnt really an issue, try having to lose 100 lbs dude, not just a small handful...cut and get it over with. Complaining about your weight is assuming you SHOULD have a lot more muscle mass from the start, it doesnt work like that.
What are your lifts like? If you are still fairly weak what was your routine? Poor programming will also yield poor results.

Well...if you say so. But I am for sure gonna be small.

Bench: 160 x 5
Squat: 195 x 5
Deadlift: 225 x 5

If you call that "relatively weak." I am doing ICF 5x5. I am interested in hearing what you have to say regarding this cut. What should be my deficit? If I go for a -500 cal deficit, that gives me about 1580 cals/day.

[MichaelTrained]

Hi OP,

I'm not an expert by any means but it's very simple. From what it seems you just did not give yourself time to build actual muscle. Not to mention april to now is only what....2 months? Did you seriously expect to gain insane amounts of muscle in that time? Most professionals I know only put on .5 lbs pure muscle mass in 1 month....so I doubt you really gave it the proper time needed (assuming your diet is as perfect as you say it is). Sounds like you also ate very little protein and should NOT have been bulking in the first place being at the bodyfat you were...ideally i believe you bulk when you're at 11-12% and then cut at 15% at most.

[Mysterion27]

Well...if you say so. But I am for sure gonna be small.

Bench: 160 x 5
Squat: 195 x 5
Deadlift: 225 x 5

Your Bench and Squat are the exact same as mine and i def have no muscle mass ha Just work on gettin your strength up consistently , Eating at a deficit and keeping fat intake and protein intake higher then you have been ;-)

[Serpentarius]

Well...if you say so. But I am for sure gonna be small.

Bench: 160 x 5
Squat: 195 x 5
Deadlift: 225 x 5

If you call that "relatively weak." I am doing ICF 5x5. I am interested in hearing what you have to say regarding this cut. What should be my deficit? If I go for a -500 cal deficit, that gives me about 1580 cals/day.

They may not seem like a lot, they arent in the overall amount that you will be lifting later on but you are already benching more than your bodyweight if its full range of motion, deadlift should probably be a little higher and squat as well but leverages affect all of that.

Id stay in a deficit that is no bigger than 750 per day, but 500 is sustainable and not just a thrown out number but based off a percentage of total bodyweight that assumes the person isnt making poor satiety decisions regarding food.
You should probably do some cardio to allow you to eat a little more food, even if its half an hour of steady state cardio. I would aim for 105g protein, 52g fat, and fill the rest of your calories with carbs as it will allow you to be in a deficit with greater calories. More cardio like moderate steady state wont impact recovery and has been shown to improve nutrient partitioning and have a positive effect on body composition, how much will never be known.

Didnt see what routine you had posted, do the cutting version, or 5x3 in a deficit instead. Finish cutting so you have a lean base to work with and then only aim to add half a pound a week on a 3 day routine.

[davidolson22]

Id stay in a deficit that is no bigger than 750 per WEEK

Typo?

[Serpentarius]

Typo?

he will reach his goal weight by 2034 lmao

fixed

[GreyArea]

Thanks guys. Starting tomorrow I'll be trying a -750 deficit, adding in a half hour of daily cardio so I can eat more, and lifting 3x a week. Goal weight is 135lbs...that should take me to 10% body fat.

[ReyJay]

You dont have much lean mass to lose anyway so just get it over with and get to 10%. Then just start adding mass.

[SiZzLaX]

I did not! That is a ton of protein...any tips on getting that much? I can't consistently afford healthy meats and protein shakes.

I did not get it checked before and after, but I suspect I was at 18% before and am now around 15%.

egg whites. Insanely easy way to get protein and its low cal. I get 1litre containers for $3.98 each which I think its pretty cheap in canada. I usually see the 500g containers for like 3.29.

[Serpentarius]

OP is fine with 105g protein, there is zero need for more. Doesnt need more than 52g of fat either. he can go with even less protein and be fine as well.

[FSEC]

u cut too quickly and your deficit was too large. your total lean muscle was low already; in the before pic id say you were low 20s % BF and not 15% (looks like ur flexing ur stomach and not letting it hang out relaxed).

in terms of macros, i believe its safer to err on the side of caution. That means, a higher amount of protein than whatever science has deemed is the "bare minimum required for muscle retention."

going forward, I recommend closing the deficit to even 100-200 cals under maintenance and raising training volume (not ICF 5x5 which is primarily a strength-focused full-body program). You don't have a lot of lean muscle so your goal should be to preserve as much as you possibly can as you cut bodyfat.

[davidolson22]

going forward, I recommend closing the deficit to even 100-200 cals under maintenance and raising training volume (not ICF 5x5 which is primarily a strength-focused full-body program).

So about 3 weeks to lose 1 pound of fat?

Nothing wrong with ICF.

[MyNameIsMud91]

going forward, I recommend closing the deficit to even 100-200 cals under maintenance and raising training volume (not ICF 5x5 which is primarily a strength-focused full-body program). You don't have a lot of lean muscle so your goal should be to preserve as much as you possibly can as you cut bodyfat.

What the hell?

ICF = fullbody program
So tell me again how benching, squatting and deadlifting (not to mention the myriad of accessory exercise Jason has you do) DOESN'T retain muscle while on a cut (coupled with the 105g of protein?)

[MichaelRobert]

I disagree with anyone telling you to cut more right now. you're too much of a beginner to be worrying about Bulk/Cut. If you lift harder and more frequently and up your protein you'll see some real gains. Protein should be more like 150, not 100/day. Your deficit should be much smaller than 750/week, maybe even stay even. Once you start building real muscle the fat will start falling off anyway.

[VmissileX]

recomps dont really work, big deficit.

neither do big deficits.

Moderation is key
.5-1lb a week for atleast a few months...

[mavajo]

I feel bad for people that come to this board looking for advice sometimes. So much broscience and conflicting advice. "Keep cutting." "No, you need to bulk!" "No don't do either - just lift hard and you're build muscle and lose fat!" If OP reads this whole thread and has any clue what he should do next, I'd be surprised.