How can I get some muscle and definition on my upper body? Here are some current pic

[Purple5]

Ok so I'm female, age 28 and want to put a bit more muscle on my upper body. I'm 5ft In Height, weigh 110 pounds and am fairly toned but not so much on my arms. I don't want to add any fat along with the muscle( as bodybuilders do with the bulking process)as I train in running so need to keep my weight down. I can do pull ups etc so have upper body strength it's just I want to look a little more muscular on my arms/shoulders and have some definition

Is this possible without doing all the bulking/cutting thing that bodybuilders do? How many times a week would I need to lift weights etc? I find that 5kg dun bells are heavy enough for me will this weight add a little more muscle? Here are some current pics

[chamelious]

Ok so I'm female, age 28 and want to put a bit more muscle on my upper body.

I don't want to do all that bulking and cutting

These 2 statements are at odds with each other. Muscle is tissue which has weight, if you want to add muscle to your body you're going to add weight to your body. This process is called bulking.

[Purple5]

These 2 statements are at odds with each other. Muscle is tissue which has weight, if you want to add muscle to your body you're going to add weight to your body. This process is called bulking.

Sorry, yes by weight I mean fat.what I mean is I want to add a little muscle but lose a little fat.

[chamelious]

Sorry, yes by weight I mean fat.what I mean is I want to add a little muscle but lose a little fat.

These are opposite goals, adding muscle requires a caloric surplus (bulking) and losing fat requires a caloric deficit (cutting)

Check out this thread for how to calculate what you should be taking in for either goal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=156380183

In case the question comes up, no you can't do both at once

[Artemis00]

Bulking / Cutting is not the only option. Recomp is very viable and works for many of us. I have never once did what one would consider a bulk / cut cycle and I have had great results.


I'm more curious about what you mean with 5kg dumbbells being enough right now. If the weights are too light that you can do a lot of reps before hitting failure (or you don't hit failure), you aren't going to be building muscle.

[sy2502]

Ok so I'm female, age 28 and want to put a bit more muscle on my upper body. I'm 5ft In Height, weigh 110 pounds and am fairly toned but not so much on my arms. I don't want to add any fat along with the muscle( as bodybuilders do with the bulking process)as I train in running so need to keep my weight down. I can do pull ups etc so have upper body strength it's just I want to look a little more muscular on my arms/shoulders and have some definition

Is this possible without doing all the bulking/cutting thing that bodybuilders do? How many times a week would I need to lift weights etc? I find that 5kg dun bells are heavy enough for me will this weight add a little more muscle? Here are some current pics

I hate to be blunt, but to have muscle definition you have to have muscle to begin with.

[Purple5]

These are opposite goals, adding muscle requires a caloric surplus (bulking) and losing fat requires a caloric deficit (cutting)





In case the question comes up, no you can't do both at once

I'm just wondering how athletes get a muscly toned physique as I'm sure they don't eat more to get muscly and then 'cut' to get the definition. They need a steady diet for energy whilst also making sure they don't put in weight.

[Purple5]

I hate to be blunt, but to have muscle definition you have to have muscle to begin with.

That's obvious but everyone has muscle anyway so can therefore get definition I can do 10 pull ups so must have some muscle in the hypothetical sense.

[sy2502]

That's obvious but everyone has muscle anyway so can therefore get definition I can do 10 pull ups so must have some muscle in the hypothetical sense.

If you are already doing everything right, why are you asking for advice?

[superja]

I'm just wondering how athletes get a muscly toned physique as I'm sure they don't eat more to get muscly and then 'cut' to get the definition. They need a steady diet for energy whilst also making sure they don't put in weight.

Athletes typically don't do photoshoots in their off season. When you see them competing or on magazine covers or whatever, they've cut to get to that point. Some of them, depending on the sport, get pretty chunky between competitions, as it's easier to make strength and performance gains when you can eat a ton. The body can't make muscle out of nothing, so they have to had spent some time in a caloric surplus.

I'm not sure which sports you're referring to when you reference athletes, but anybody who has to make weight for an event will be cutting up to it.

[mcbourque]

I'm just wondering how athletes get a muscly toned physique as I'm sure they don't eat more to get muscly and then 'cut' to get the definition. They need a steady diet for energy whilst also making sure they don't put in weight.

Majority, if not all, athletes (as in sports athletes) train with weights as part as their overall training.

[sy2502]

Majority, if not all, athletes (as in sports athletes) train with weights as part as their overall training.

They also train 5 hours a day. People like Michael Phelps have the problem that they can't eat enough to keep up with their training!

[Artemis00]

Athletes typically don't do photoshoots in their off season. When you see them competing or on magazine covers or whatever, they've cut to get to that point. Some of them, depending on the sport, get pretty chunky between competitions, as it's easier to make strength and performance gains when you can eat a ton. The body can't make muscle out of nothing, so they have to had spent some time in a caloric surplus.

I'm not sure which sports you're referring to when you reference athletes, but anybody who has to make weight for an event will be cutting up to it.

Well let's use amateur MMA as an example. Yes many fighters will cut prior to a fight, but usually that is only water weight. The rest of the year the smart ones will usually maintain their weight cause it is extremely difficult to be in a deficit the weeks or months before a fight especially considering the intensity of the training they do prior to a fight and the energy they need for that fight. And yet, somehow...they have the capability of building muscle while at maintenance.

There are also plenty of power lifters that keep getting stronger and never did a bulk/cut cycle. Even DLB states that she doesn't do bulk/cut cycles. She will cut a before a show or photoshoot to get lean...but the rest of the time she sticks to a what she considers a maintenance diet.

Bulking / cutting is not the only way to build muscle.


OP...If you don't like bulking / cutting cycles...don't do them. But you will need to lift heavy to build muscle. How you choose to do that is up to you?

[sy2502]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ians-body.html

This is a great site to get an eye opener of what an athlete looks like. Different sports require different amounts of muscle and/or body fat, and they will look different accordingly. Look at that site and tell me if the phrase "I want to look like an athlete" still makes sense to you.

[Purple5]

If you are already doing everything right, why are you asking for advice?

I didn't say I'm doing everything right, I said I already have some strength/muscle.

[megdaig]

I didn't say I'm doing everything right, I said I already have some strength/muscle.

Yes, everyone has SOME muscle. But not everyone has ENOUGH muscle to show definition (separation between the various muscle group) at even the lowest body weight/body fat achievable. This is what we mean when "you don't have enough muscle to support the look". This typically is the issue with those who are underweight, new to lifting, etc.

[sonti]

Okay first off athletes start working out in elementary so keep in mind they eat and work out for a good 10-20 years when you see them looking fit at 30. Eating and growing during their prime years makes a big difference.

You WILL add some fat in the process if you want to gain muscle. We can help you minimize it but yah nobody wants to gain fat, well, I want a million dollars too.

[Artemis00]

Okay first off athletes start working out in elementary so keep in mind they eat and work out for a good 10-20 years when you see them looking fit at 30. Eating and growing during their prime years makes a big difference.

Not all athletes start working out in elementary. You are talking about some of the elite athletes. But there are plenty of amateur athletes that only been doing their sport for a few years and some of them look comparable to the pictures from Sy's link. And many of them have never once did a bulk / cut cycle. They can't cause of the sport they do is a year round sport and there isn't enough time to do a bulk / cut cycle so they maintain.

As I stated before bulk / cut is not the only way to gain muscle. Maintenance is always another valid option.

[sonti]

There's nothing wrong with a recomp but it isn't for everybody. With her stats, pics, and age, it seems more prudent to bite the bullet, we aren't saying to go full on huge surplus, but she is in it for the long term even if she was more aggressive with her calories.

I recomp. But I suit it. She doesn't, unless she wants to wait ages. Its hard enough.

And IMO most people described as "athletes" have been active since childhood. Hitting the gym doesn't make an athlete, getting on stage once isn't an athlete. You don't have to be elite but seriously if you lost babyweight and did a bikini comp twice... You aren't an athlete. I'm not an athlete and I've trained 10 years. If you dedicate your life or leisure to a sport sure.. But athlete is a term reserved IMO

[Artemis00]

There's nothing wrong with a recomp but it isn't for everybody. With her stats, pics, and age, it seems more prudent to bite the bullet, we aren't saying to go full on huge surplus, but she is in it for the long term even if she was more aggressive with her calories.

I recomp. But I suit it. She doesn't, unless she wants to wait ages. Its hard enough.

Well I would be more concerned about her lifting than how she is eating...cause given the DB weight she references and the questions she is asking, she may not be doing enough to build muscle regardless of what type of diet she is doing. Last thing I would even consider doing is recommending to someone to bulk when they aren't lifting enough to build muscle. All those extra calories will be going to build fat and I don't think her goal is go gain fat.

And as for what I have seen with amateur fighters that compete several times a year. Just cause they have only been doing it a few years (and not since they were a child), I would NEVER not consider them an athlete. What some of them have to do inside and outside the ring is incredibly impressive and for them to not deserve the title of athlete just because they didn't have a parent forcing them into a sport at an early age...well that just doesn't seem right to me. Besides, eventually if they get to turn "pro" I guess someone considers them enough of an athlete to pay them.

[sy2502]

I didn't say I'm doing everything right, I said I already have some strength/muscle.

You are using 10lbs weights. You have a long way to go before you can claim to be strong or have muscle.

[mcbourque]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ians-body.html

This is a great site to get an eye opener of what an athlete looks like. Different sports require different amounts of muscle and/or body fat, and they will look different accordingly. Look at that site and tell me if the phrase "I want to look like an athlete" still makes sense to you.

I remember when that came out!!!
I love that picture!
Such beautiful women

[mcbourque]

Well I would be more concerned about her lifting than how she is eating...cause given the DB weight she references and the questions she is asking, she may not be doing enough to build muscle regardless of what type of diet she is doing. Last thing I would even consider doing is recommending to someone to bulk when they aren't lifting enough to build muscle. All those extra calories will be going to build fat and I don't think her goal is go gain fat.

I have to agree with this. What I've noticed over the years is that a big majority of women (and some guys too) starting to lift just don't know what heavy lifting is. They hold some kind of smallish dumbbells or bar and move it around following some plan in a magazine and think they are getting stronger when in fact they are quite far from true muscle exhaustion. They get a "burn" from gazillions reps that has nothing to do with true strength.

They have not experienced the strain of trying to lift something really heavy.

So that extra food will not build muscles because they have not lifted heavy enough to cause the muscle fibers micro tears needed for strength and hypertrophy progress.

[Artemis00]

I have to agree with this. What I've noticed over the years is that a big majority of women (and some guys too) starting to lift just don't know what heavy lifting is. They hold some kind of smallish dumbbells or bar and move it around following some plan in a magazine and think they are getting stronger when in fact they are quite far from true muscle exhaustion. They get a "burn" from gazillions reps that has nothing to do with true strength.

They have not experienced the strain of trying to lift something really heavy.

So that extra food will not build muscles because they have not lifted heavy enough to cause the muscle fibers micro tears needed for strength and hypertrophy progress.

That's exactly my point. Granted, nothing against 10 lb dumbbells...with certain exercises they can be quite heavy especially for a person new to lifting. But given the rest of the questions the OP asked, I'm gonna guess she is very new to lifting.

I'd rather see her spend the summer months (since most people don't like to bulk over the summer...making an assumption...don't know where she is located) actually trying to lift heavy and stay at maintenance to use that time to get familiar with lifting heavy, take advantage of noob gains and then after that she can make a better decision if she wants to bulk / cut.



Edit...and hey, I wouldn't be cutting her down regarding her strength if she can do pull ups. A lot of women on this board used DBs much heavier and can't do even one pull up. Besides, strength is subjective...and considering the weights I've seen some women pick up at the gym...using the 10 lb DBs is more than a large majority of the women use.

[mcbourque]

That's exactly my point. Granted, nothing against 10 lb dumbbells...with certain exercises they can be quite heavy especially for a person new to lifting. But given the rest of the questions the OP asked, I'm gonna guess she is very new to lifting.


Edit...and hey, I wouldn't be cutting her down regarding her strength if she can do pull ups. A lot of women on this board used DBs much heavier and can't do even one pull up. Besides, strength is subjective...and considering the weights I've seen some women pick up at the gym...using the 10 lb DBs is more than a large majority of the women use.

I'm the one struggling with pull-ups here LOL
granted in 15lbs heavier than the OP.

10lbs DB can definitely be considered heavy lifting. It is for my 12 yo right now. He just started lifting. That last rep is really hard for him. He is straining.

I don't like to put # as a guideline because strain will be different for different people. Certainly for me with rehab as each lift is excruciatingly painful.
But it's the concept of strain that some people don't quite have at first.

[sy2502]

I'm the one struggling with pull-ups here LOL
granted in 15lbs heavier than the OP.

10lbs DB can definitely be considered heavy lifting. It is for my 12 yo right now. He just started lifting. That last rep is really hard for him. He is straining.

I don't like to put # as a guideline because strain will be different for different people. Certainly for me with rehab as each lift is excruciatingly painful.
But it's the concept of strain that some people don't quite have at first.

Pretty sure my purse weighs 10lbs. I should be jacked after Christmas shopping...

[Artemis00]

I'm the one struggling with pull-ups here LOL
granted in 15lbs heavier than the OP.

10lbs DB can definitely be considered heavy lifting. It is for my 12 yo right now. He just started lifting. That last rep is really hard for him. He is straining.

I don't like to put # as a guideline because strain will be different for different people. Certainly for me with rehab as each lift is excruciatingly painful.
But it's the concept of strain that some people don't quite have at first.

Absolutely. I know when I first started out...I can absolutely remember when 8 lb dumbbells for slow concentration curls was a heavy weight for me. Now I'm up to 37.5 lb dumbbells. So depending on her level of experience it could absolutely be heavy. But since she referenced only to that weight, I'm suspicious that she may not be lifting heavy cause when I could only do concentration curls with 8 lb DBs...I could do DB rows with 15 lbs and shrugs with 30 lbs.

Not to mention, I know on days where I can't get to a gym and may need to use the limited DBs I have at home, I can definitely get a solid workout with them by keeping the reps slow (especially with the negative) and making sure I'm contracting the muscle as much as possible.

[Purple5]

You are using 10lbs weights. You have a long way to go before you can claim to be strong or have muscle.

I am using 10 pounds doesn't mean I can't lift more lol I don't even lift proper anyway. I can do 10 pull-ups so much be able to lift at least 110 pounds, depending on what you mean by lift (to chin/overhead I don't know). I wouldnt say I have less muscle than the average female. Here's a vid of a few pull-ups don't know if it looks different from the pics but if u still say I have no muscle then fair enough lol.

ht tp:// m.you tube. com/ watch?v= JkQpxl U0wl0 (close all the spaces in the link as I can't post links because of post count). Cheers

[Purple5]

Absolutely. I know when I first started out...I can absolutely remember when 8 lb dumbbells for slow concentration curls was a heavy weight for me. Now I'm up to 37.5 lb dumbbells. So depending on her level of experience it could absolutely be heavy. But since she referenced only to that weight, I'm suspicious that she may not be lifting heavy cause when I could only do concentration curls with 8 lb DBs...I could do DB rows with 15 lbs and shrugs with 30 lbs.

Not to mention, I know on days where I can't get to a gym and may need to use the limited DBs I have at home, I can definitely get a solid workout with them by keeping the reps slow (especially with the negative) and making sure I'm contracting the muscle as much as possible.

Just had a look at your pics, I'd like a body like yours if it's possible it's so athletic looking! I do a lot of running/sprints etc through the week as I train for it so don't know if this would complicate things diet wise as I need enough carbs Would be interesting to know your schedule and yea I am new to weights and the whole bulking etc. How long does it take to reach your current level/gains? Once you have done the bulking and then cut for the definition is that it can you just maintain with a steady diet/exercise schedule for years then? Or did you bulk and cut several times?

[Artemis00]

Just had a look at your pics, I'd like a body like yours if it's possible it's so athletic looking! I do a lot of running/sprints etc through the week as I train for it so don't know if this would complicate things diet wise as I need enough carbs Would be interesting to know your schedule and yea I am new to weights and the whole bulking etc. How long does it take to reach your current level/gains? Once you have done the bulking and then cut for the definition is that it can you just maintain with a steady diet/exercise schedule for years then? Or did you bulk and cut several times?

Thanks. I appreciate the compliment. I'll PM you later today (hopefully - tomorrow at the latest) addressing some of the questions you are asking here.