Not training shoulders

[Jordan336]

Has anybody here got decent delt development from just bench variations and no shoulder pressing? Or if you train your shoulders very rarely, are they still stronger each time you train them from all the benching?

[tinytim1]

Yes, i did. But when i actually train them i progress better so it's worth it

[Jordan336]

Yes, i did. But when i actually train them i progress better so it's worth it

Your bench and shoulder presses progressed better, or just your shoulder presses?

[MiddletoM]

im doing it the other way round. Specifically training shoulders to increase my pressing force. Shoulders are my favourite muscle group to train.

[musclehead09]

For awhile all I was doing was different bench variations (flat and incline w/ barbell and dumbbell) and my shoulders did actually grow. But I tried shoulder pressing a few weeks ago and it was weak as hell much weaker than when I had done them).

I just recently added shoulder pressing and raises in the other week once a week. I noticed every big raw bencher has a nice overhead press. I don't care what people say about shoulder presses not helping. Everyone that has a huge raw bench that I've seen swears by shoulder presses. Plus I noticed when my overhead press went up my bench did when I had been doing them in the past.

[bennmuz]

I find improving my shoulder strength has improved all my major lifts so I wouldn't recommend skipping them.

[Mike.Moore]

You need to train your shoulders.....

[Jordan336]

im doing it the other way round. Specifically training shoulders to increase my pressing force. Shoulders are my favourite muscle group to train.

Yeah they are one of my favorite to train, but you just can't add weight as easy as something like a bench and they are easier to mess up

[Jordan336]

For awhile all I was doing was different bench variations (flat and incline w/ barbell and dumbbell) and my shoulders did actually grow. But I tried shoulder pressing a few weeks ago and it was weak as hell much weaker than when I had done them).

I just recently added shoulder pressing and raises in the other week once a week. I noticed every big raw bencher has a nice overhead press. I don't care what people say about shoulder presses not helping. Everyone that has a huge raw bench that I've seen swears by shoulder presses. Plus I noticed when my overhead press went up my bench did when I had been doing them in the past.

But did you see your numbers shoot past what they were after a few weeks of doing them?

[MiddletoM]

Yeah they are one of my favorite to train, but you just can't add weight as easy as something like a bench and they are easier to mess up

tell me about it, i mostly focus on reps more than weight and also concentrate on the mind/muscle side of it.
Im also one of the only guys in my gym who actually bothers warming up my rotator cuffs, this is an absolute must imo.

[Jordan336]

I find improving my shoulder strength has improved all my major lifts so I wouldn't recommend skipping them.

I'm not wanting to skip them, but I was just thinking about it as my form keeps messing up (bar gets too far in front of me) and it's ruining all my sets for them

[Jordan336]

tell me about it, i mostly focus on reps more than weight and also concentrate on the mind/muscle side of it.
Im also one of the only guys in my gym who actually bothers warming up my rotator cuffs, this is an absolute must imo.

I've tried focusing on adding reps, but because of my form the reps I hit are sometimes inconsistent, like if the bar gets too far in front of me a few times on one set it can mess me up for the rest

[Lukerus]

Personally iv found bench has hardly any carryover to overhead pressing, been on sheiko for the last year or so and bench has dramatically gone up my ohp is pretty much the same as when I started

[musclehead09]

But did you see your numbers shoot past what they were after a few weeks of doing them?

I just start them back up like 2 weeks ago and now I'm on vacation. So I haven't seen anything yet. I expect to after a little while.

[Mike.Moore]

I've tried focusing on adding reps, but because of my form the reps I hit are sometimes inconsistent, like if the bar gets too far in front of me a few times on one set it can mess me up for the rest

Stop worrying about adding weight and reps and concentrate on perfecting your form. Once you get your form down, the weight and reps will come. Its not too hard to learn how to OHP.

[Jordan336]

Stop worrying about adding weight and reps and concentrate on perfecting your form. Once you get your form down, the weight and reps will come. Its not too hard to learn how to OHP.

I get concentrating on form, I've reset the weight recently to work on my form and build up some momentum, but I still failed on weights a little lighter than what I've hit just because the bar got out in front on 1 rep stupid rep, just seems easier to just do a high incline bench instead

[NorthStrong]

I find that getting strong at things helps me get strong at other things.

Don't be weak anywhere mang

[Mike.Moore]

I get concentrating on form, I've reset the weight recently to work on my form and build up some momentum, but I still failed on weights a little lighter than what I've hit just because the bar got out in front on 1 rep stupid rep, just seems easier to just do a high incline bench instead

Obviously you haven't gotten the form down yet, otherwise that wouldn't happen. I'm willing to bet you really haven't put the time in on trying to learn the form correctly. Find some videos of guys doing OHPs and study them. If you start not doing certain movements cause others are easier, you won't make it very far.

High incline bench will not work your shoulders the same way as OHPs. I'm also a big believer in working your shoulders all around. Making sure to hit both your lateral and rear delts. You want your shoulders to be strong all around.

[WorldDomnit]

behind the neck presses and dumbell front raises I found to be beneficial to my bench.

Especially the front raises, if your shoulders hurt when you bench and do dips it most likely is due to weak shoulders.

[Jordan336]

Obviously you haven't gotten the form down yet, otherwise that wouldn't happen. I'm willing to bet you really haven't put the time in on trying to learn the form correctly. Find some videos of guys doing OHPs and study them. If you start not doing certain movements cause others are easier, you won't make it very far.

High incline bench will not work your shoulders the same way as OHPs. I'm also a big believer in working your shoulders all around. Making sure to hit both your lateral and rear delts. You want your shoulders to be strong all around.

I have watched videos on form, I tense my glutes and quads, push my head back slightly and aim for my nose with the bar on the way up and on the way back down. I just find it hard not to let the bar get away from me sometimes, it's not that much of a problem with weights I can do 8+ reps

[JamesW129]

I only do standing military press (only shoulder exercise) and see amazing shoulder + upper chest development, and it has increased my bench press...so win-win for me.

[davisj3537]

With a few small exceptions I've never done OHP, Incline or any type of shoulder iso crap other than reverse flies. I'm not saying my shoulders are the best, but they've developed just fine from bench variants-See avatar. I don't think my shoulders have ever really been a limiting factor on my bench...granted a lot of my time was spent in a shirt or shirt simulated scenarios.

I've never really understood why anyone does front raises. Shoulders get wrecked during pressing and any chest exercise.

[Mike.Moore]

I have watched videos on form, I tense my glutes and quads, push my head back slightly and aim for my nose with the bar on the way up and on the way back down. I just find it hard not to let the bar get away from me sometimes, it's not that much of a problem with weights I can do 8+ reps

I suggest trying Wendlers 5/3/1 for OHPs. Not alot of work, but enough to keep them and get your shoulders strong.

I think anyone who neglects training shoulders is being foolish.

[Jordan336]

For those who feel like it helps increase their lifts, how often do you manage to add weight to your shoulder presses?

[John Prophet]

behind the neck presses and dumbell front raises I found to be beneficial to my bench.

Especially the front raises, if your shoulders hurt when you bench and do dips it most likely is due to weak shoulders.

pretty much agree with that. My front delt has never been the biggest/strongest bodypart. In the past the delts would hurt some when benching and doing dips. I tended to have to do a lot of warmup sets on bench so finally I just started doing standing OHP BEFORE I bench. Thats my normal approach now. I do either standing press behind neck or military press and I keep the reps low and work up to a decent weight for a heavy double or triple. Then I go to bench. Then after I finish benching and chest assistance I usually do another delt press more for mass so its around 8-10 reps and also some sort of side laterals.

Doing the delt press before bench doesnt hurt my bench at all, if anything it feels like great potentiation for the bench and besides, us old guys need a lot of warmup anyway. MY OHP has always been sort of weak and front delt is sort of the weak link in my bench so it makes sense for me to prioritize delts a bit.

Also, I appreciate the fact that u r lean and everything but if I were 5'8" 162 I wouldnt be personally skipping any bodyparts. What would skipping delts do for your long term development?

The whole thing of "Im benching so much I dont need to work delts" school of thought sort of came about due to people using bench shirts and im pretty sure even half of them have rethought that approach now.

As already mentioned, generally a big raw bencher will be a decent OH presser.

[Anthony21]

I only do standing military press (only shoulder exercise) and see amazing shoulder + upper chest development, and it has increased my bench press...so win-win for me.

If you're doing a basic BB OHP you shouldn't be hitting your chest at all. Unless you're hyper extending and turning that OHP into a standing incline press lol.

[John Prophet]

With a few small exceptions I've never done OHP, Incline or any type of shoulder iso crap other than reverse flies. I'm not saying my shoulders are the best, but they've developed just fine from bench variants-See avatar. I don't think my shoulders have ever really been a limiting factor on my bench...granted a lot of my time was spent in a shirt or shirt simulated scenarios.

I've never really understood why anyone does front raises. Shoulders get wrecked during pressing and any chest exercise.

yeah but u might be a classic "delt bencher" who gets a huge front delt just from benching. We have all seen the sort of classic "powerlifter" look where there is a huge front delt, no side delt and sometimes not much of a bicep

Im the dead opposite, I can bench all day and my chest would just outgrow my delts and eventually it would probably lead to injury

[Jordan336]

If you're doing a basic BB OHP you shouldn't be hitting your chest at all. Unless you're hyper extending and turning that OHP into a standing incline press lol.

I dunno, I think if you bring the bar down to your upper chest/clavicle area it is meant to recruit some chest, I saw it strength training anatomy, I think Jason Blaha also says that it recruits your chest some

[Jordan336]

pretty much agree with that. My front delt has never been the biggest/strongest bodypart. In the past the delts would hurt some when benching and doing dips. I tended to have to do a lot of warmup sets on bench so finally I just started doing standing OHP BEFORE I bench. Thats my normal approach now. I do either standing press behind neck or military press and I keep the reps low and work up to a decent weight for a heavy double or triple. Then I go to bench. Then after I finish benching and chest assistance I usually do another delt press more for mass so its around 8-10 reps and also some sort of side laterals.

Doing the delt press before bench doesnt hurt my bench at all, if anything it feels like great potentiation for the bench and besides, us old guys need a lot of warmup anyway. MY OHP has always been sort of weak and front delt is sort of the weak link in my bench so it makes sense for me to prioritize delts a bit.

Also, I appreciate the fact that u r lean and everything but if I were 5'8" 162 I wouldnt be personally skipping any bodyparts. What would skipping delts do for your long term development?

The whole thing of "Im benching so much I dont need to work delts" school of thought sort of came about due to people using bench shirts and im pretty sure even half of them have rethought that approach now.

As already mentioned, generally a big raw bencher will be a decent OH presser.

I'm going to keep training shoulders directly, just going to have to take it slow and concentrate on form like Mike Moore suggested. I'm actually surprised at the response I've got to be honest, I was expecting a lot of people who mainly train for the competition lifts to not shoulder press. I think Mike Tuchsherer doesn't train shoulders directly regularly and in his generalised intermediate routine you train them once every 2 weeks and even that is a push press which I always thought was more of a tricep exercise as you're using your legs to help you out the bottom

[John Prophet]

I'm going to keep training shoulders directly, just going to have to take it slow and concentrate on form like Mike Moore suggested. I'm actually surprised at the response I've got to be honest, I was expecting a lot of people who mainly train for the competition lifts to not shoulder press. I think Mike Tuchsherer doesn't train shoulders directly regularly and in his generalised intermediate routine you train them once every 2 weeks and even that is a push press which I always thought was more of a tricep exercise as you're using your legs to help you out the bottom

push press can mean almost anything. u can use a tiny bit of leg drive or even just "looseness" to help get the weight moving but still use 90% delt strength, or u can use a lot of dynamic leg drive to basically throw the weight all the way to lockout