*** Official Tennis Thread ****

[meremortal]

What did happen to Novak during those three years? Why was he dominant before and after but not during them?

I haven't been following tennis closely since 2010 so fill me in.

[Dominik]

What did happen to Novak during those three years? Why was he dominant before and after but not during them?

I haven't been following tennis closely since 2010 so fill me in.

Djokovic wasn't injured and he wasn't losing to scrubs. He was still the #1 player for most of that time.

He was still reaching slam finals with ease. 8 in total.

He just faced stronger competition when he got there. Nadal had done his homework. Murray had teamed with Lendl. Federer in 2012 at age 30 when he beat him in the Wimbledon semis was a better player than he is today.

[TheGattingBall]

What did happen to Novak during those three years? Why was he dominant before and after but not during them?

I haven't been following tennis closely since 2010 so fill me in.

He won 3 slams in 3 years. Do that over your career and you're one of the greats.

Even if you cherry pick the 2012-2014 years he still did well.

Nadal = 4 slams
Djokovic = 3 slams
Murray = 2 slams
Wawrinka = 1 slam
Federer = 1 slam
Cilic = 1 slam

2011-2016

Djokovic = 11 slams
Nadal = 5 slams
Murray = 2 slams
Wawrinka = 2 slams
Federer = 1 slam
Cilic = 1 slam

[Dominik]

He won 3 slams in 3 years. Do that over your career and you're one of the greats.

Even if you cherry pick the 2012-2014 years he still did well.

Nadal = 4 slams
Djokovic = 3 slams
Murray = 2 slams
Wawrinka = 1 slam
Federer = 1 slam
Cilic = 1 slam

2011-2016

Djokovic = 11 slams
Nadal = 5 slams
Murray = 2 slams
Wawrinka = 2 slams
Federer = 1 slam
Cilic = 1 slam

And 2015-2016?

Djokovic = 5 slams
Wawrinka = 1 slam
Nadal = 0 slams
Federer = 0 slams
Murray = 0 slams

LTFOL at fanboys who think he magically elevated his game in his late 20s to a level where his 3 main rivals -- two of whom won a combined 31 slams over their careers -- are winning none.

Makes me wonder if these diehard Djoker fans only started watching tennis a couple of years ago.

[jimbob007]

Nothing much wrong-in 2012 he won the Aussie, lost to the GOAT clay court player in the RG final, lost to an inspired Fed in the semis at Wimbledon & lost a tight one to Murray in the US final. In 2013 he won the Aussie again, lost to the GOAT Nadal again at RG & would have won if he hadn't switched off for a set due to his mentor/coach dying, lost the Wimby final to Murray in the best game Murray ever played & lost the US final to Nadal. 2014 he lost in the Aussie quarters to Warinka in another epic, again lost to Nadal at RG, won Wimbledon & lost in the semis at the US. it wasn't like the guy was getting beaten by nobodies in the early rounds-his consistency was insane.

Basically his main problem was his toughest opponent was still playing great, it has been a lot easier for him since Nadal had his appendix removed & is a shadow of his former self. Fed can only possibly beat him on at Wimbledon & stands virtually no chance of beating him there unless he plays at 100% & Novak dips to 70% & Murray will struggle to do so due to his mental weakness.

[ZoranM]

So a world nr. 775 beats a world nr. 50. Only on Wimbledon. Grass should be banned from tennis and left for cows and dogs.

[nvrstopworking]

Dustin Brown v. Kick Kyrgios should be entertaining.

[ZoranM]

LTFOL at fanboys who think he magically elevated his game in his late 20s to a level where his 3 main rivals -- two of whom won a combined 31 slams over their careers -- are winning none.

So one can't possibly elevate his game further unless the rest of the best are not on top of their games? These are mutually exclusive things now? Rofl.

But already used to seeing your butthurt subconscious coming out, failing to admit that someone has a game to match your boy's best, maybe even top it. It was always about that with you RF ppl.

[meremortal]

Djokovic wasn't injured and he wasn't losing to scrubs. He was still the #1 player for most of that time.

He was still reaching slam finals with ease. 8 in total.

He just faced stronger competition when he got there. Nadal had done his homework. Murray had teamed with Lendl. Federer in 2012 at age 30 when he beat him in the Wimbledon semis was a better player than he is today.

Ah, so he was still playing very well. It looks like Nadal had one last hurrah before declining. Djoko is one of the greatest players of all time but if Federer or Nadal are playing at 90% of their best tennis I'm betting on them almost every time.

So a world nr. 775 beats a world nr. 50. Only on Wimbledon. Grass should be banned from tennis and left for cows and dogs.

Upsets have happened on other surfaces too, let's not act like world number 50s are the most consistent players. If we get rid of grass all we have are slow surfaces and very little volleying.

failing to admit that someone has a game to match your boy's best, maybe even top it. It was always about that with you RF ppl.

You say RF ppl but you're nearly as delusional with Djoko. Djoko is undeniably one of the GOATs but there's no way RF at 100% loses to ND at 100%... I'd say Roger would win 6-7+ times out of 10 games if they were both in peak form.

I think in recent years the biggest change Djoko has made is in his mental game. He's extremely good in pressure situations (look at US open with federer having 20+ break points) and that has enabled him to use his physical skills to their full potential. It also explains how despite getting older he has elevated his game (And I do agree he has elevated his game, it's just unfortunate but true that the other guys have decreased as well)

I think Djokovic may have the edge at the Australian, the French is a toss up. Federer wins hands down at Wimbledon and the US.

Also lmao at that Djokovic fan saying Wimbledon is ****. Not surprised he wants all the courts homogenized.

Yeah, I think that's a pretty accurate assessment.

[Khristmas]

I think Djokovic may have the edge at the Australian, the French is a toss up. Federer wins hands down at Wimbledon and the US.

Also lmao at that Djokovic fan saying Wimbledon is ****. Not surprised he wants all the courts homogenized.

[ZoranM]

My hate for grass and Wimbledon is 30 years old and has nothing to do with NDj, or RF.

[TheGattingBall]

Since Federer's first Grand Slam win back in 2003:

Federer: 17
Nadal: 14
Djokovic: 12
Wawrinka: 2
Murray: 2
Cilic: 1
Safin: 1
Roddick: 1
Del Potro: 1
Gaudio: 1

"Big 4". Murray is a very lucky to get lumped in with the top 3.

[Dominik]

So one can't possibly elevate his game further unless the rest of the best are not on top of their games? These are mutually exclusive things now? Rofl.

But already used to seeing your butthurt subconscious coming out, failing to admit that someone has a game to match your boy's best, maybe even top it. It was always about that with you RF ppl.

If anyone here is butthurt it's you. Say the word "prime" when pointing out Federer's best season was 10 years ago and you lose your sh!t.

I can't wait until the likes of Kyrgios are beating up on your Serbian hero when he's lost a step in his 30s, the slam wins have dried up, and you start talking about the good old days, trying not to use the word "prime."

"someone has a game to match your boy's best, maybe even top it"

Are you aware of how delusional you're coming across?

There is a 6 year age difference between Federer and Djokovic. Congratulations he's getting some cheap wins over Federer at an age when most players are lining up for the seniors tour.

[ZoranM]

"someone has a game to match your boy's best, maybe even top it"

Are you aware of how delusional you're coming across?

There is a 6 year age difference between Federer and Djokovic. Congratulations he's getting some cheap wins over Federer at an age when most players are lining up for the seniors tour.

Holy shyte batman. I dont even dare put this under reading comprehension.

I said your boys best. Meaning 2005-07 or whatever. I certainly don't think he is playing his best now. Lol. Although he still often claims that in interviews. Nother lol.

[drbaig]

Sorry, but I like grass courts. Oldest surface.

I'd prefer them to be faster like they used to be. More variety in the game. Not the recent ones much but they are still better than the other courts.

If all courts were the same it would be even more boring. The base line robotic shenanigans are very paint drying at times.

[Dominik]

I said your boys best. Meaning 2005-07 or whatever. I certainly don't think he is playing his best now. Lol. Although he still often claims that in interviews.

They all do this.

Even Murray will say he's playing his best tennis. Sorry Andy when you're 4-22 against the other 3 since Wimbledon 2013 you're not playing your best tennis.

Nadal from 2005-2014 at Roland Garros lost only one match. Federer at his peak wasn't good enough. Novak came close in 2013 but couldn't do it however by then Nadal was slowing down. Murray played him twice there and never had a sniff.

Can they all beat him there now? Of course. Did they improve? No. He's rapidly declined.

[anibani]

Instead of the never ending djokovic vs Federer debate (equivalent to the tiring Ronaldo vs Messi debate) we should focus on the little things.

like the fact that Marcus Willis, ranked 772. in the world, played Federer yesterday.

Here's what he wore.

[Dominik]

Life as a tennis player ranked #772 can't be too bad.

[nvrstopworking]

Reminds me a bit of Christie Brinkley ^^^^^

Well done Marcus. Seems like he caught a good one. At least you know she's not after your money lol.

Curious to see where Marcus goes from here. He'll def have eyes on him from now on. Guy showed some great touch in that match against Fed though. his fitness obviously has to improve but he has some tools.

[ceizer1985]

So a player's prime comes and goes does it?

He reached the US Open final in 2007. Won his first slam in 2008. When did he come into his "prime" then?

Was 2011 his peak? Or did he only peak in 2015-2016?

So what happened from 2012-2014?

Was he injured?

Reached 8 slam finals. Won 3.

I'm somewhat lost at this point. What are actually trying to prove? Even in those off years, he won just as much as anyone else.

So yea, what is your point again? That he's only winning because of limited competition? Is that your point? And you're making this in defense of Federer? Really?

Or are you making this in defense of Nadal? Novak was 7 - 16 against Nadal at the end of 2010. Now he's 26 - 23. Against Federer at the end of 2010, he was 6 - 13. Now he's 23 - 22.

Novak was 23 in 2010, Fed was 28, Nadal was 24. Not even going to mention Murray because he's a bum. It's not Novak's problem that the bum let go of Lendl.

I don't know when Novak's prime started and when it will end. All I know is that he's been the far superior player compared to anyone else over the past 6 years. That is a fact. You can take a couple of years here and there and slice numbers to make an argument but if you look at the past six years, across GS, Masters and YE Finals. Novak has destroyed everyone else.

Now I'm sure you'll come back with some more rambling that will tilt the facts to support your viewpoint. But show me the facts for the last six years and tell me how anyone else even comes close to the Serbian. Show me GS, show me Masters, show me overall win %. Maybe just maybe Nadal eeks by him in clay but barely.

[Dominik]

I'm somewhat lost at this point. What are actually trying to prove? Even in those off years, he won just as much as anyone else.

So yea, what is your point again? That he's only winning because of limited competition? Is that your point? And you're making this in defense of Federer? Really?

Or are you making this in defense of Nadal? Novak was 7 - 16 against Nadal at the end of 2010. Now he's 26 - 23. Against Federer at the end of 2010, he was 6 - 13. Now he's 23 - 22.

Novak was 23 in 2010, Fed was 28, Nadal was 24. Not even going to mention Murray because he's a bum. It's not Novak's problem that the bum let go of Lendl.

I don't know when Novak's prime started and when it will end. All I know is that he's been the far superior player compared to anyone else over the past 6 years. That is a fact. You can take a couple of years here and there and slice numbers to make an argument but if you look at the past six years, across GS, Masters and YE Finals. Novak has destroyed everyone else.

Now I'm sure you'll come back with some more rambling that will tilt the facts to support your viewpoint. But show me the facts for the last six years and tell me how anyone else even comes close to the Serbian. Show me GS, show me Masters, show me overall win %. Maybe just maybe Nadal eeks by him in clay but barely.

More biased rambling. Nothing before 2011 counts. 2012-2014 Novak wasn't at his best. Okay.

"Maybe just maybe Nadal eeks by him in clay but barely."

Who cares about win %? Nadal won 9 French Open titles and 4 since 2010.

Djokovic needed an opponent you just described as a "bum" in the final to win his only French Open.

Couldn't beat Nadal until he was washed up and getting rolled by scrubs.

Couldn't beat Federer during his best season when he was on a 41 match winning streak.

Couldn't beat Stan Wawrinka who'd reached the quarters there once in 10 years.

Yep, he needed a "bum" in the final. A guy who won his first clay event a year ago.

All Novak has done since 2013 is stave off decline better than Nadal and Federer while capitalizing on a headcase being coached by Mauresmo. After Murray and Wawrinka who shows up a few weeks a year, the competition drops off a cliff.

[Dominik]

You Djokovic bandwagoners have to be some of the most deluded sports fans.

"Maybe just maybe Nadal eeks by him in clay but barely."

I had to read that again. Barely eeks by him? What matters on clay are French Open titles.

Nadal: 9
Novak: 1

Only beat him there once when the guy couldn't win a clay event anywhere that year.

Before 2011 Djokovic didn't win a single match on clay against Nadal. Only took 3 sets off him in 9 matches.

Has a 1-6 record against Nadal at Roland Garros.

And he barely "eeks by him?" Ho Lee Fuk there is some strong delusion ITT.

[shimmyjimmy]

Some tennis players have the prettiest women, I swear down! Serious contenders to the WAGs out there.

[ceizer1985]

Couldn't beat Nadal until he was washed up and getting rolled by scrubs.

Nadal in 2011 was washed up? Yes or No?

[meremortal]

Nadal in 2011 was washed up? Yes or No?

Maybe just maybe Nadal eeks by him in clay but barely.

Well, if you look at their head-to-head record on all surfaces Nadal was up 16-7 before 2011 season began and 16-13 at the end of 2011 against Djoko... I don't think you can argue he had a great year in 2011.

Also, even counting post-2010 clay court matches he's up 14-7 on clay and 6-1 at Roland Garros against Djoko, that's hardly a slight edge.


Edit: I should also point out that Djokovic hadn't beat Nadal on clay until 2011. The Serbian's record in the last 6 years is just inflated because he's got very low competition and his top rivals are injured and worn out Nadal and old man Federer.

He has dominated in the last 6 years but it isn't because he's playing the best tennis that's ever been seen. It's a mixture of his greatness and the fact that the younger generation are lackluster.

[Dominik]

Nadal in 2011 was washed up? Yes or No?

No. Was beaten fair and square. I think his speed had declined a little from his 2005-2010 peak on clay but he was a better player on HC so it all evens out.

I've said before that 2011 was probably his best chance to beat Nadal at Roland Garros and win it. He was in Nadal's head. That was his year.

The 2011 version of Djokovic would be beating the one we see today. No doubt in my mind. His movement was incredible and he had a lot of confidence hitting his BH down the line on big points. His serve has improved under Becker but not those two key areas of his game.

If it weren't for Djokovic, Federer was playing well enough to win at least 4 slams over an 18 month stretch during 2014-2016. Also came within a few points of regaining the #1 ranking at the end of 2014.

Do I think at 33-34 he was anywhere near his peak form from 10 years ago? No way. Was still serving extremely well and Edberg had him mixing things up nicely with a strategy to keep rushing the net, but that's where it ends.

[Khristmas]

Lol anyone hear Venus complaining about women not getting the showcourts yesterday?

�It�s not the ideal schedule for the women. We�d like to see equal amount of matches.
�We don�t want more, just the same amount, that�s all.
�I just want equality for men�s and women�s matches. That�s what I�m unhappy about.
�I�m sure that the WTA supervisors have done their best to try to make the schedule equal.
�But also the All England Club has to have a culture where they want to have equality, as well. They need to want to pursue that.�

It actually is equality because no one gives a chit about women's tennis because its awful. Also just lol at Bouchard getting center court in her second round match. The benefits of being attractive I guess.

[nvrstopworking]

Just once I want the WTA to say to Venus.... "You want equality? Fine. Women will now play best out of 5 at every slam".

Anyone see Troicki's meltdown in his last match? Would post it but I'm on my phone. Check it out lol.

[ceizer1985]

No.

So you just backtracked from your earlier comment? "Couldn't beat Nadal until he was washed up and getting rolled by scrubs."

Got it. Carry on.

[nvrstopworking]

Thanks for the embed Dom. That's it. lulz.

Delpo downs Stan in 4 sets to move on to the 3rd round! Damn!