I give up!!!

[Ramborage]

After one whole year of Dieting, training, lifting, hiring a trainer, researching, putting in lots of hard work, counting calories, etc... I have NOT gained any muscle, i've gained fat and my lifts have hardly changed. I KNOW what you're going to say.... My training sucks. My diet sucks. I don't get enough rest. I'm not drinking enough water. I'm not counting calories. You think I would not have tried that already?

I'm sorry for the rant. But my roomate just told me I do not even look like I lift after one year of training. I'm still fat. I went on a bulk late last year and gained 20 lbs in five months. Most of it was water and fat. I ate healthy and stayed within a small caloric surplus keeping protiens high and fat at a reasonable level. My lifts barely got stronger even though I was training with someone who competes as a bodybuilder/power lifter.

I mountain bike, run occasionally. I'm in great shape in that aspect. My bloodwork is spot on.... I think it's time to just call it quits or go see a doctor because I still can't even deadlift more than 295lbs at 184lbs of bodyweight. I still can't put up more than 225 on the bench or 250 on the squat after one year.

My training has been doing the ICF 5X5 for when I was bulking and 3X5 when I was cutting.

Squat
Bench
Row
Chins
Hyper-Extentions
Abs

Deadlift
Overhead
Pullups
Closegrip or Dips
Abs

I went heavy, tried going light with more reps. I worked on progressive overload and carried around a notebook recording my lifts. At first I saw some gains the first two months but then stalled and haven't improved since. I tried changing the routine... NOthing. HELP!!!

[CanadianNoob]

You deadlift 295lbs
You bench 225lbs
You squst 250lbs
After a year.

I've been working out for 15 months and I --
Deadlift - 225lbs
Bench - 145lbs
Squat - 135lbs

There's your motivation.
You have built muscle, it's just hidden under your fat. You just said you've been in a surplus. Go into a deficit and lose the fat, you'll see your years worth of results.

[TGT333]

Sounds very inconsistent. Try sticking to ALL of it at once. Diet, training, and recovery need to be on track at all times for a long time. If you are truly eating enough, working out enough, recovering well, and nothing is wrong with you physically you would be seeing results.

You can be as adamant as you want and overlook mistakes, but the results show what you're putting in. "The iron never lies."

[Ramborage]

I consistantly lift three days a week. Monday, Wednesday, then Friday/Saturday morning. Iron never lies? Well it just did with me. The only inconsistent thing I did was stay on a bulk or cut. My bulk lasted 5 months and I went from mid 160's to 200lbs. I'm now back down to 184 and have stagnated the last four months at the same weight. Kind of gave up counting calories the last three so that's my bad but was already frustrated by that point by the results. I had to stop at 200 because I was getting to fat and my clothes got small real quick. My cut initially started at 254 in oct 2011 to feb 2013 when I got down to my lowest at 162 then was told by many people I look sick and I should lift weights.

The only thing I can think of is low testosterone. Maybe levels are screwed up since I was so obese a few years ago and I'm now starting to get older. What's the best way to get tested?

[Insilicio]

What was ur diet like?

[Ramborage]

Cutting I got down to 2100 calories average per day. 125-150 grams of protien, 60-70 grams of fat and rest carbs. I did a lot of cardio back then too. Bulking I just made sure I hit 125 grams of protien which was easy, and I got up to 3200-3500 calories a day. Adding or losing weight wasn't a problem for me at all when I stick to it. When I bulked yeah sure I ate out a few times a week. Never fast food, sure as hell didn't order chicken breasts and broccoli though. Basically my point is I know how to diet. Weight on the scale, is one thing. Bodyfat and muscle mass is another. Given that I have my dads genetics and he was a skinny fat guy even when he was at 200lbs I think I'm just screwed.

[natesezgoblue]

how much do you expect to gain? what was your expectaion after 3,6 and 12 months? 10-15 lbs of muscle over a year lifting 3x a week actually sounds like progress. i've lifted hard 5-6x a week and have only put on 20-25lbs in 3 years.

set some short and long term goals. make them attainable and you'll eventually get there.

[Ramborage]

how much do you expect to gain? what was your expectaion after 3,6 and 12 months? 10-15 lbs of muscle over a year lifting 3x a week actually sounds like progress. i've lifted hard 5-6x a week and have only put on 20-25lbs in 3 years.

set some short and long term goals. make them attainable and you'll eventually get there.

I should look like I lift after 1 yr and not a fattie. I lost half that weight I gained and it was not muscle. If I gained 30lbs, realistically I may have only gained 5lbs of muscle. I gained lots of water weight and fluffed up like a marshmellow. I lost that water weight and look just as bad as I did when I started except I'm bigger and can barely lift any more weight.

[CanadianNoob]

You don't seem to be taking our comments to seriously, we're trying to help you and you keep repeating yourself that in a years time of lifting, you haven't changed.

You're not special, we're all built the same. You lift, you eat, you grow.

[Serpentarius]

The reality is that doing this NATURALLY is slow as hell, why do you think people choose to take alternatives?
First and foremost, drop the weight and get lean, that has priority. You made good progress in that time. But lets put things in perspective, my bench press was THE BAR when i first started and in a year i STILL wasnt at 135, nope try a year and a half. In the real world progress is slow but your progress is VERY good.
Some people excel at certain things because they have better leverages, muscle fiber types, put in more effort, so on and so forth. There is always a guy who is better looking than you, and who has a bigger package, but you cant compare yourself to anyone, this is YOUR journey.

One thing i want to note is that programs are all good and fine but they dont always work, while we are all the same and human, the individual differences are how YOU adapt to a certain stimulus. For me 5/3/1 DOESNT work, its not about like you say "sleep/food/effort" because we wouldnt be here worrying about this stuff, sometimes you gotta change things completely because if something doesnt work its not working. Add more volume to things, i started doing triples with just about every main lift @ 80% working weight and keep doing sets and sets, eventually it gets things moving along. Just an example of something that needs to be changed even though you are doing everything right.

Get lean, and be patient, it takes a long time. If you could add 5 lbs a month to your squat, you'd be squatting 60 lbs more at the end of the year. THATS NOT REALISTIC. I get you, i understand the struggle, not gonna say some motivational quote or tell you to man up. but will tell you to have realistic goals and dont try to take shortcuts. Dont add weight when a program tells you to, add weight when you are comfortable doing it and dont force it. You will get there, eventually.

[Ramborage]

The reality is that doing this NATURALLY is slow as hell, why do you think people choose to take alternatives?
First and foremost, drop the weight and get lean, that has priority. You made good progress in that time. But lets put things in perspective, my bench press was THE BAR when i first started and in a year i STILL wasnt at 135, nope try a year and a half. In the real world progress is slow but your progress is VERY good.
Some people excel at certain things because they have better leverages, muscle fiber types, put in more effort, so on and so forth. There is always a guy who is better looking than you, and who has a bigger package, but you cant compare yourself to anyone, this is YOUR journey.

One thing i want to note is that programs are all good and fine but they dont always work, while we are all the same and human, the individual differences are how YOU adapt to a certain stimulus. For me 5/3/1 DOESNT work, its not about like you say "sleep/food/effort" because we wouldnt be here worrying about this stuff, sometimes you gotta change things completely because if something doesnt work its not working. Add more volume to things, i started doing triples with just about every main lift @ 80% working weight and keep doing sets and sets, eventually it gets things moving along. Just an example of something that needs to be changed even though you are doing everything right.

Get lean, and be patient, it takes a long time. If you could add 5 lbs a month to your squat, you'd be squatting 60 lbs more at the end of the year. THATS NOT REALISTIC. I get you, i understand the struggle, not gonna say some motivational quote or tell you to man up. but will tell you to have realistic goals and dont try to take shortcuts. Dont add weight when a program tells you to, add weight when you are comfortable doing it and dont force it. You will get there, eventually.

Now that's motivation man. Thank you. Do you think that switching up from a 5X5 at 80% to 2X10 or 3X10 is something worth pursing? I definatly need change and that's what my roomate was saying. I can't take him seriously though as he buys $300 a month worth of supplments and is telling me I have to do 5 day a week body part splits just because it works for him. Of course he's 6'1 225 lbs and warms up with my squat max and deadlift max. LOL.

[Ramborage]

And one more thing. Do you think that eating at around 2200-2500 calories but doing lots of cardio hurts your progress while cutting? I know cardio isn't needed but it worked for me last time just fine. I'm just hoping that if any gains I made if any at all don't go to waste.

[CanadianNoob]

And one more thing. Do you think that eating at around 2200-2500 calories but doing lots of cardio hurts your progress while cutting? I know cardio isn't needed but it worked for me last time just fine. I'm just hoping that if any gains I made if any at all don't go to waste.

Depends on how much of a deficit you're in. If you're already in a 500+ deficit, then don't bother doing cardio. If you want to slow cut but still do cardio, then go into a deficit of around 200-300

[Serpentarius]

And one more thing. Do you think that eating at around 2200-2500 calories but doing lots of cardio hurts your progress while cutting? I know cardio isn't needed but it worked for me last time just fine. I'm just hoping that if any gains I made if any at all don't go to waste.

LISS, absolutely will not affect recovery, but....i would aim to lose about 1.5 lbs max a week and take it slow to hold onto strength, i regret big deficits in the past and losing work put it...it sucks. You should probably lose a little strength on a deficit but thats the name of the game.

You can still stick with the heavy low rep stuff, it will work, basic barbell movements. I understand how it works in my head but i cant explain it well, you should use additional sets with the slightly lighter weight so your brain can learn how to move the weight faster. Have you deloaded before? it is an essential tool in any serious lifter's arsenal that is after strength.
You can use triples for hypertrophy purposes, it will work the same with short rest periods and no need to use high rep stuff. I dont wanna look for the source im trying to explain but you can come to a standstill where you have maxed out the neural efficiency for the amount of muscle you have to where you can no longer progress. if you care to search the stuff the information is out there, again i know how it works but i cant put it into words well without sounding like a broscientist.
Also want to note that while overtraining is real, sometimes if you keep forcing it you absolutely will adapt to the workload within reason, most of the limiting factor is tendon recovery and possible tendonitis. There is a lot of stuff dealing with neurotransmitters at work that are responsible for those adaptations but there is a "this guy is going to kill me if i dont make him stronger" response in your CNS that will overcome those stalls if you keep subjecting it to heavy loads, its just finding a balance.
Lastly if you do something more frequently, you will get better at it.

My deload for my deadlift is 350 lbs, but dont worry, there is another 5'8/5'9 guy out there who deloads with my 1RM LOL!
If you want eye openers, look at world record holders throwing more than your 1RM deadlift OVER THEIR HEAD. Seriously WTF.

[zwen15]

Cutting I got down to 2100 calories average per day. 125-150 grams of protien, 60-70 grams of fat and rest carbs. I did a lot of cardio back then too. Bulking I just made sure I hit 125 grams of protien which was easy, and I got up to 3200-3500 calories a day. Adding or losing weight wasn't a problem for me at all when I stick to it. When I bulked yeah sure I ate out a few times a week. Never fast food, sure as hell didn't order chicken breasts and broccoli though. Basically my point is I know how to diet. Weight on the scale, is one thing. Bodyfat and muscle mass is another. Given that I have my dads genetics and he was a skinny fat guy even when he was at 200lbs I think I'm just screwed.

You have too high expectations.
By the way, how did you got your bulking calories 3200-3500? Seems to high.. I don't know your exact activity, but would say your TDEE is somewhere between 2400-2700. So your bulking calorie intake should be max 3000.

[Caesar164]

You can experiment with your caloric intake, and see what works best. Its going to take time, but my advice to you is never quit lifting, stay consistent! I would see a doctor, get some blood work done, and make sure your hormones are at a healthy range. Also try different approaches to training. You could try powerlifting techniques to increase strength. Squatting heavy, dead lifting, olympic lifts, these type of movements help raise free testosterone. In time you will get it dialed in, a year is not enough to truly know what works best for your body.

[joeelliott]

Hi There,

I think you are definitely on the right track and more than not i hear a lot of the time saying it's not working, like others have said the natural way is best but the hardest to master.

It's great to see you have a strength element to your regime and keep at it, what you could try is doing some cardio directly after your strength. By doing this you are forcing the body to burn fat as it is already under fatigue and most of the other fuels should have depleted. You need to be careful and ensure you have enough protein to stop your body burning the muscle, this looks like what may be happening in your case that your body is using the muscle rather than fat.

As for the strength side of things don't get to used to the same weights your body will get used to them always challenge yourself and push out of your comfort zones.

Hope this has helped some

Joe

[servonlewis]

It took me 2 years too look like i lift, and I still wasnt happy. 2-1/2 years now i am pretty happy. You should be happy that you are much stronger than the average guy. Give it another year of building strength and muscle, and then cut. I promise you will be very happy. If you dont want to be fat, just cut now, but you'll probably not be as excited about the results.

Most of the naturals we worship has been lifting for more than 6 years. 1 year is not even close to look good.

[mavajo]

my bench press was THE BAR when i first started and in a year i STILL wasnt at 135, nope try a year and a half.

LOL, this might be the biggest motivation I've seen here in a while. I often feel like my lifts aren't progressing as they should, particularly compared to a number of the beast-mode dudes around here. Sometimes gives you that nagging sensation of being a failure. Makes me feel a lot better to see that one of those beast-mode dudes was only at 135 after a year and a half. That helps to put things into proper perspective for me.

For whatever reason, we seem to want to compare ourselves to guys that have been doing it for years, even though we've only been at it for 6, 12 or 18 months. Gotta keep a reasonable perspective.

[mrmr200]

you aren't lifting to build a mass, that was power lifting **** .


lift old school style and you will see.

[Serpentarius]

LOL, this might be the biggest motivation I've seen here in a while. I often feel like my lifts aren't progressing as they should, particularly compared to a number of the beast-mode dudes around here. Sometimes gives you that nagging sensation of being a failure. Makes me feel a lot better to see that one of those beast-mode dudes was only at 135 after a year and a half. That helps to put things into proper perspective for me.

For whatever reason, we seem to want to compare ourselves to guys that have been doing it for years, even though we've only been at it for 6, 12 or 18 months. Gotta keep a reasonable perspective.

likewise, i feel like im doing something wrong but then its just unrealistic expectations, because you cant keep adding weight consistently as its not real and getting strong is a constant uphill battle/struggle

you aren't lifting to build a mass, that was power lifting **** .


lift old school style and you will see.

how much you grow is largely genetic and not affected by higher rep ranges/hypertrophy stuff. There is pretty much evidence in the sports science community now that lifting with low rep range vs high will yield the same results and that the same adaptations for sarcoplasmic vs myofibrillar hypertrophy will still be made either way. The high rep stuff just gets a person there slightly faster since the increased workload can be done due to a slightly lighter load. The size is more a function of total workload capacity done in a sense, but if you are adding weight to the bar over a period of time it will get as big as it is programmed to get and the only thing that will make it grow is increased workload, adding weight/reps/sets will do the same though.

[andrewlef]

how much you grow is largely genetic and not affected by higher rep ranges/hypertrophy stuff. There is pretty much evidence in the sports science community now that lifting with low rep range vs high will yield the same results and that the same adaptations for sarcoplasmic vs myofibrillar hypertrophy will still be made either way. The high rep stuff just gets a person there slightly faster since the increased workload can be done due to a slightly lighter load. The size is more a function of total workload capacity done in a sense, but if you are adding weight to the bar over a period of time it will get as big as it is programmed to get and the only thing that will make it grow is increased workload, adding weight/reps/sets will do the same though.

Can you provide some sources for this? Genuinely interested in this topic.

[Chicago1287]

I've been lifting for over 5 years, but I look like I've been lifting for just 1. I got injuries that keep setting me back...a herniated disc, messed up shoulders, knees, wrists, and ankles. Sounds ridiculous but it's true. I feel like my body wasn't meant for lifting. On top of that, I keep spinning my wheels with a "bulk and cut" because I never cut down enough. The lowest I've been was 14-15% bodyfat so whenever I get on a bulk, I get too damn fat a few months in. I've probably gained a total of 10-15lb of muscle (just a guess) in 5 years because of ****ing up my diet which is pretty damn PATHETIC.

But I'm still not giving up...I'm on a mission to get down to a low bf%....down 20lb so far in about 2 months and I'm gonna keep going for another 25-30lb. If I did it wrong for 5 years but I'm able to push myself right now, I'm sure you can do. The past few months has probably been the most dedicated I've been since I started lifting.

As for your complaints about not having enough muscle, I suggest trying a higher volume routine. In my opinion, it's more enjoyable and I've seen better results. I typically do an upper body/lower body routine on MTRF.

[loseitall90210]

so it looks like you've built muscle? is your goal to lose weight?

[kureransu]

I'm just going to echo. I've been lifting for almost 5.5 years now. After my first year I was down 100lbs (330-230) and I look some what athletic but not like i lift regularly. I can't tell you what my starting numbers were as I don't remember, But I can tell you now that with consistency, There is a very slim chance you would think I didn't lift.

I also have never been below 16%, which is my goal this summer. People say I'm an exception to the rule on here, but it's just honestly hard work and making sure i lift hard and purposeful. I don't lift a ton of sets or reps and such, I just make each one count. That's what worked for me. It looks like you have decent stregnth so you have some muscle there. just keep at it. it doesn't just turn around like the commercials try to tell you.

Have fun, enjoy life, eat well, and lift hard. The results will come.

[theboiflip]

and you posted here so people can convince you to keep at it.

so in a sense, you didn't give up, since you're obviously looking for motivation :/

[Serpentarius]

Can you provide some sources for this? Genuinely interested in this topic.

I would generally say if a person wants to learn something they should research on their own, im not terribly busy but if you care to use google scholar and research current medical journals and analysis its out there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK6o3vVahvo&t=4m1s

I kind of despise the folks that post all these studies and have nothing to show for it, like the 5'9 guys who are 130 lbs in the nutrition section quoting articles when they will blow away in the wind. Sometimes i feel people spend more time sitting on the computer instead of actually doing it (not talking about you lol).
Really though you can take a look at the different people in nature, there are guys who are legit natural lifters, my height, and 190 lbs lean, i will never reach that. They have a bigger skeleton and that will allow you to move more weight to a large degree vs someone like me with really small bone structure. With that said, ive tried high rep stuff, it did absolutely ZERO benefit or change, i stopped using all machines, dropped all high rep stuff, noticed absolutely nothing that couldnt be done with a heavier weight.
When the stimulus is there, everything will progressively get bigger under progressive overload though, the high vs low reps is just one way to get there, the bone, connective tissue, and muscle MUST get stronger and bigger in order to accomodate that. The organelles themselves are becoming larger, rather the cells are becoming larger entirely but different methods of training, using high vs low for example have different adaptations made within the cell itself.



For longevity purposes strength training will have its limits due to injury and age/recovery, if a person just wanted to get in shape a higher rep range is much safer though.

[badshaa]

If you do not accept defeat you can never lose.

[Mstarter]

Never!

[Ramborage]

Thanks guys. I truely feel inspired. After the crappy thing my roomate said to me yesterday. I went in and killed it on squats and heavy deadlifts today. I only did 225 for 3X5 on the squats but I never do heavy deadlifts right after and did 3 sets of 6 at 275 and they were perfect form with all pulling from a dead stop off the floor. An older guy came over and told me I was doing good and keep it up. I swear I'm not lying about that too. He also said be careful because I can give myself a hernia from doing that and we both laughed because we both already had one. LOL

I think my roomate is right about one thing though. Time for a change. I think I might enjoy a different split, just not his 5 day a week bodypart split. I think I like keeping it upper/lower splits where I can workout four to six days if I feel like it.