Who's smarter on average: Doctor vs Lawyer vs Physicist vs Investment Banker?

[ign_fan_4life]

http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/Occupations.aspx

I'm actually going to go with doctors.

[tehgosu]

physicist easily

[Strawberryfluff]

Neil deGrasse Tyson's opinion:


Most relevant bit at 1:54 Physics 101 professor chimes in at the end saying he's failed more pre-med students (not really med students if I understand the US system right) than law students.

His experience is pretty much the same as mine. I've met a fair share of idiot doctors. In Norway the med students are the ones spending the most time reading by a big margin. I think with enough work most people with perhaps slightly above average intelligence can pass med school. And it does attract more people than most studies.

[MontelWilliams]

as someone in the medical field

physicist>physician>investment banker>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>lawyer

but if you want to talk about most important

physicians>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all

[DanArps]

Physicist >(BIG GAP)> Lawyer = Investment Banker > Doctor

Assuming the doctor is a regular physician/G.P.
If he's a neurosurgeon, things might get a little shaky.

Then again, check the sig, I'm fairly biased.

[HIITforGains]

Doctor vs Lawyer vs Physicist vs Investment Banker?

Physicist >(BIG GAP)> Lawyer = Investment Banker > Doctor

Assuming the doctor is a regular physician/G.P.
If he's a neurosurgeon, things might get a little shaky.

2 pages ago a nice graph is posted that shows doc vs lawyer iq.

90% of lawyers are from low standard schools that take anyone thats willing to pay tuition. Mad respect for harvard, yale, columbia lawyers, but the rest...

[SMiGGLeT]

1. Physicist

2. Chemist

3. Engineer

4. doctor/lawyer

[TDKSparda]

lol please go. Chemical eng was my back up choice after Dentistry (you can only put down 4 medical/dental choices and the last one has to be something else) and it was at a top university and I got the offer in 2 days even though I knew nothing about chem eng

Engineering does require intelligence but it's not on the same level as something like medicine

So you just admitting to knowing nothing about chem eng? It's easy to get into, but ridiculously difficult to do. The opposite with medicine.

for common academic degrees that are offered at most universities, there is usually a pretty direct relationship

Nah bro, not with engineering. That's why you have A LOT of people dropping out within the first two years of an engineering degree.

[HIITforGains]

1. Physicist

2. Chemist

3. Engineer

4. doctor/lawyer,

nope. I've done chem and medicine. chem is a harder subject, but the average student in chem undergrad and phd isn't as smart.

[wailshark]

Cliffs:

OP asks a meaningless question and the Misc obliges with meaningless answers.

[DanArps]

2 pages ago a nice graph is posted that shows doc vs lawyer iq.

90% of lawyers are from low standard schools that take anyone thats willing to pay tuition. Mad respect for harvard, yale, columbia lawyers, but the rest...

This is fairly true.
The actual process of obtaining a law degree is fairly easy and can be done by mostly anybody (like you said, at chit universities).

Yale/Harvard/Columbia/Georgetown etc. law students need to have an absurdly high LSAT score, which has a direct correlation to their logical reasoning skills.

I think if we're trying to asses "smartness", logical reasoning ability (essentially, IQ) is the best means to go by.

[glenoidfossa]

So you just admitting to knowing nothing about chem eng? It's easy to get into, but ridiculously difficult to do. The opposite with medicine.



Nah bro, not with engineering. That's why you have A LOT of people dropping out within the first two years of an engineering degree.

Yeah because it wasn't what I wanted to do, the point is that despite having an application entirely geared towards a dental degree, they still gave me a place despite knowing I had no interest in Chem eng/99% chance I wasn't even going to do the course. So it follows that the only reason I got that offer is because they assumed I was smart based on the degree I was (intending) to do, unis/employers always regard medical fields as among the most difficult and requiring the most intelligence. Lol medicine is leagues harder than engineering, overall

[goldjack]

On average, on leaving high school, the cohort of dr and lawyers are probably smarter. The super smart physicists no doubt eclipse them all.

DOI: MD and spend half my day sticking my finger up patients bums. I don't feel particularly smart.

[TDKSparda]

lol please go. Chemical eng was my back up choice after Dentistry (you can only put down 4 medical/dental choices and the last one has to be something else) and it was at a top university and I got the offer in 2 days even though I knew nothing about chem eng

Engineering does require intelligence but it's not on the same level as something like medicine

Yeah because it wasn't what I wanted to do, the point is that despite having an application entirely geared towards a dental degree, they still gave me a place despite knowing I had no interest in Chem eng/99% chance I wasn't even going to do the course. So it follows that the only reason I got that offer is because they assumed I was smart based on the degree I was (intending) to do, unis/employers always regard medical fields as among the most difficult and requiring the most intelligence. Lol medicine is leagues harder than engineering, overall

COMPLETELY missed my point and proceeded to talk about a bunch of chit that Idgaf about.

I know Medicine is the MOST difficult degree to get into. Everybody knows this. But once you've got in and begun to study it, I've been told by many sources irl that it's a cake walk. Just a bit time consuming due to memorising lots of chit. That's it though. You memorise and then regurgitate for your exams and lab work.

Engineering is easy to get into. Of course they'd accept someone who's gunning for dentistry because he most definitely is a smart person. But once you begin studying it, it's incredibly difficult. Especially Chemical Engineering. You have to study high level calculus as well as a bunch of general maths, fluid mechanics, thermodynamics, material balances, energy balances, cell biology, organic chemistry, dynamics and chaos related chit etc etc etc. So many diverse modules that require different modes of thinking. You have to be godly at maths (calculus) and to be able to apply it well (fluid mechanics, engineering materials), good at memorising large amounts of text for chemistry and biology modules, creative for design projects, mass and energy balances and thermodynamics also needs the student to be able grasp abstract topics quickly. List goes on brah.

I'm not saying you wouldn't be awesome at engineering. Because I do believe someone who has gotten into dentistry would be pretty damn good at maths and would be smart in general. But an engineering degree is harder.

[whitecollarcrim]

COMPLETELY missed my point and proceeded to talk about a bunch of chit that Idgaf about.

I know Medicine is the MOST difficult degree to get into. Everybody knows this. But once you've got in and begun to study it, I've been told by many sources irl that it's a cake walk. Just a bit time consuming due to memorising lots of chit. That's it though. You memorise and then regurgitate for your exams and lab work.

Engineering is easy to get into. Of course they'd accept someone who's gunning for dentistry because he most definitely is a smart person. But once you begin studying it, it's incredibly difficult. Especially Chemical Engineering. You have to study high level calculus as well as a bunch of general maths, fluid mechanics, thermodynamics, material balances, energy balances, cell biology, organic chemistry, dynamics and chaos related chit etc etc etc. So many diverse modules that require different modes of thinking. You have to be godly at maths (calculus) and to be able to apply it well (fluid mechanics, engineering materials), good at memorising large amounts of text for chemistry and biology modules, creative for design projects, mass and energy balances and thermodynamics also needs the student to be able grasp abstract topics quickly. List goes on brah.

I'm not saying you wouldn't be awesome at engineering. Because I do believe someone who has gotten into dentistry would be pretty damn good at maths and would be smart in general. But an engineering degree is harder.

sociology es hard 2

[TDKSparda]

Lawyer and IB are laughable to include among smartest professions. Not that there aren't a lot of brilliant people in them, but it's so easy to become a lawyer it weighs the average down, and most of becoming an IB has to do with connections not high IQ.

Exactly.

Lawyers as smart as engineers in general? Haven't laughed this hard in a while. Sorry Law brahs.

At least you guys can be super cool and shady and chit. Like Harvey Specter.

[whitecollarcrim]

Exactly.

Lawyers as smart as engineers in general? Haven't laughed this hard in a while. Sorry Law brahs.

At least you guys can be super cool and shady and chit. Like Harvey Specter.

Lawyer > Engineer in terms of awesomeness though

[glenoidfossa]

COMPLETELY missed my point and proceeded to talk about a bunch of chit that Idgaf about.

I know Medicine is the MOST difficult degree to get into. Everybody knows this. But once you've got in and begun to study it, I've been told by many sources irl that it's a cake walk. Just a bit time consuming due to memorising lots of chit.

Engineering is easy to get into. Of course they'd accept someone who's gunning for dentistry because he most definitely is a smart person. But once you begin studying it, it's incredibly difficult. Especially Chemical Engineering. You have to study high level calculus as well as a bunch of general maths, fluid mechanics, thermodynamics, material balances, energy balances, cell biology, organic chemistry, dynamics and chaos related chit etc etc etc. So many diverse modules that require different modes of thinking. You have to be godly at maths (calculus) and to be able to apply it well (fluid mechanics, engineering materials), good at memorising large amounts of text for chemistry and biology modules, creative for design projects, mass and energy balances and thermodynamics also needs the student to be able grasp abstract topics quickly. List goes on brah.

I'm not saying you wouldn't be awesome at engineering. Because I do believe someone who has gotten into dentistry would be pretty damn good at maths and would be smart in general. But an engineering degree is harder.

You're plainly misinformed if you think a med degree would be a cake walk, or these people IRL you know are part of the pretend "I do no revision" crowd. All the medics who we study with have endless work, stupid amounts of difficult content to learn and understand, require a large variety of skills (memorising anatomy and making a differential diagnosis could not be more different) a far far higher workload volume than any engineering student would have, way more examinations both written and clinical, longer years of study (5 vs 3) plus the fact that from 2nd year onwards they are on wards and have to apply that massive amount of information to real life scenarios/patients. people who think medicine is just memorisation have zero understanding of the field at all

Engineering probably is similar in terms of complexity/conceptual difficulty as medicine, just in a different area (much more maths based ofc). But far less amount of work, less years to study, much less responsibilities, - it doesn't make any sense at all to say it is overall more difficult than a med degree. If a dental student is defending a medic then you know I ain't making **** up, since we rag on each other almost 24/7

[TDKSparda]

Lawyer > Engineer in terms of awesomeness though

Agreed. Plus Law students here are constantly partying and having socials and chit. We get like two ****gy overpriced dinner dances a year.

You're plainly misinformed if you think a med degree would be a cake walk, or these people IRL you know are part of the pretend "I do no revision" crowd. All the medics who we study with have endless work, stupid amounts of difficult content to learn and understand, require a large variety of skills (memorising anatomy and making a differential diagnosis could not be more different) a far far higher workload volume than any engineering student would have, way more examinations both written and clinical, longer years of study (5 vs 3) plus the fact that from 2nd year onwards they are on wards and have to apply that massive amount of information to real life scenarios/patients. people who think medicine is just memorisation have zero understanding of the field at all

Engineering probably is similar in terms of complexity/conceptual difficulty as medicine, just in a different area (much more maths based ofc). But far less amount of work, less years to study, much less responsibilities, - it doesn't make any sense at all to say it is overall more difficult than a med degree. If a dental student is defending a medic then you know I ain't making **** up, since we rag on each other almost 24/7

Agree to disagree. Tbf, everyone is gonna defend their subject/related field

[whitecollarcrim]

You're plainly misinformed if you think a med degree would be a cake walk, or these people IRL you know are part of the pretend "I do no revision" crowd. All the medics who we study with have endless work, stupid amounts of difficult content to learn and understand, require a large variety of skills (memorising anatomy and making a differential diagnosis could not be more different) a far far higher workload volume than any engineering student would have, way more examinations both written and clinical, longer years of study (5 vs 3) plus the fact that from 2nd year onwards they are on wards and have to apply that massive amount of information to real life scenarios/patients. people who think medicine is just memorisation have zero understanding of the field at all

Engineering probably is similar in terms of complexity/conceptual difficulty as medicine, just in a different area (much more maths based ofc). But far less amount of work, less years to study, much less responsibilities, - it doesn't make any sense at all to say it is overall more difficult than a med degree. If a dental student is defending a medic then you know I ain't making **** up, since we rag on each other almost 24/7

Compare Calculus I to Chemistry I to Biology I.
With no prior knowledge of any of the above.
Biology is easier, followed by Chemistry and lastly Calculus.
Because it increases from rote memorization to more conceptual learning.
Conceptual learning > memorization in every way.
You're saying Biology is harder than Math. Med School is just advanced Biology/Chemistry and Engineering is Advanced Math/Physics.
Stop trying to defend your own field.

[glenoidfossa]

Compare Calculus I to Chemistry I to Biology I.
With no prior knowledge of any of the above.
Biology is easier, followed by Chemistry and lastly Calculus.
Because it increases from rote memorization to more conceptual learning.
Conceptual learning > memorization in every way.
You're saying Biology is harder than Math. Med School is just advanced Biology/Chemistry and Engineering is Advanced Math/Physics.
Stop trying to defend your own field.

Application of medical knowledge to a real world patient = harder than any calculus you'll ever do in eng school

No ones saying first year medical exams aren't mostly rote memorisation - they are. but as the course goes on and you have to apply everything you've learned (of which is there is multiple times more than there'd ever be in an eng degree) to vastly different clinical scenarios, it's not even comparable. you'll have a much easier time grasping some calculus concepts

And this thread is mostly just a pissing match of everyone defending their fields, so that was a pointless last comment

[havoc713]

Between a physician and physicist for smartest, but only on a person by person basis. Some doctors are smarter than others, same thing with physicists.

[Trojans86]

Investment banking analysts on wall street have the highest intellectual hurdle to break into the field. Graduating at the top of your class at a top 10 school in the country is very very challenging. The pay is soo good that the top students at those top schools who are studying other areas, such as physics and math, often end up going for banking rather than pursuing phds in said subject. Investment bankers who come in as Associates (post MBA) are not faced with nearly as challenging of an intellectual hurdle to enter the field. Tons of idiots at that level.

The smartest guys in finance are private equity guys / quant hedge fund guys / fixed income asset managers.

The physicists that make breakthroughs in their field are probably the smartest guys out there because that's identifying the cream of a very smart crop of people and no other profession can identify the smartest people in their field like those in physics can.

[Nistrange]

Doctors hands down are the smartest.

Being a physicist is down there with lawyers. It's easy af to become one, hard to be among the best, but that's the same for many fields. It's only doctors that are hard af to become one.

Doctors on average go to med school with a national average of a 46% acceptance. Aka, half of all premed applicants never get in to a single fukking school. That's difficult. And then research that physicists have to do, all the doctors did that while they were undergraduates. Physicists are just the PI's now instead of the lab grunts.

[264magnum]

Neil deGrasse Tyson's opinion:


Most relevant bit at 1:54 Physics 101 professor chimes in at the end saying he's failed more pre-med students (not really med students if I understand the US system right) than law students.

His experience is pretty much the same as mine. I've met a fair share of idiot doctors. In Norway the med students are the ones spending the most time reading by a big margin. I think with enough work most people with perhaps slightly above average intelligence can pass med school. And it does attract more people than most studies.

Sorry for the thread dredge. Several specific points.
A. I'm a Ph.D psychologist, I'm focused on pain management but I've always been very interested in IQ and why so many smart people reject IQ testing and results.
1. Although far from perfect and prone to test giver problems, IQ results are quite predictive, repeatable, with care not racially or culturally biased and widely accepted directly and by proxy.
2. Professor Tyson is a brilliant man but the real object of his scorn above wasn't docs. but instead religion.
2a. Although not an MD I work with cancer patients and/or related research virtually every day. Given proper staging studies the chances of a person with a three doc. composite diagnosis yielding months to live later going into full remission and living for many years approaches zero and Tyson knows that.
2b. I'm embarrassed for Tyson and the other physics prof. for utterly misunderstanding why more pre-med. kids flunk physics than pre-law kids. That's a completely expected big group v. small group artifact related to the simple truth that every allopathic medical school in the country requires 8 or more hours of physics and I've never heard of a single law school that requires even 1 hour of physics. Rational behavior dictates that pre-law types taking physics are going to be really good at physics because it's an elective and many pre-med hopefuls who are terrible at physics will attempt the class because they have no choice.

B. My oldest son is a Ph.D, physics and MD, radiation oncology (that combo is probably more common than you'd think). He says:
1. Physics so far as acquiring a Ph.D is probably conceptually more difficult but the pace and overall degree of difficulty was a breeze. His Ph.D took 2 years and 2 months - that's quite fast.
2. His medical training - medical school + radonc. residency + fellowship = 10 years. All ten years were more or less working or studying 100hrs. per week under work and testing pressure he never experienced during his Ph.D drive.
3. My son's IQ is right at 163 (average of a lot of tests).

C. IQ rank within the context of this conversation:
1. Physicist and astronomers (if we break them out from natural scientists) + (tiny cadre)
2. MDs (relatively large cadre)
3. Professors
4. Electrical Engineers
5. Lawyers
6. Social Scientists
or-
1. MDs
2. Professors
3. Electrical engineers
4. Lawyers
5. Social Scientists
6. Natural Scientists
MDs and physicists and astronomers are the only cadres in which virtually everyone in each distribution scores above 100. At any given point in time there may actually be no exceptions.

The grand takeaway is there are no idiot doctors.