If minimum wage was meant to be a living wage, it would be called living wage.Discuss

[Aesthetical]

Father and I argued about this for like an hour.

[dfwt70gt]

True.


/thread

[tng83]

Agreed. When did people start getting the idea that you're supposed to have you're own apartment, car note, insurance, cell phone, etc as a grocery store stock boy.

[nutsy54]

Agreed. When did people start getting the idea that you're supposed to have you're own apartment, car note, insurance, cell phone, etc as a grocery store stock boy.

When politicians started using those promises as bribery for votes...

[Aesthetical]

Agreed. When did people start getting the idea that you're supposed to have you're own apartment, car note, insurance, cell phone, etc as a grocery store stock boy.

You mean luxury apartment with a pool, bmw, iphone 10/galaxy s7, and macbook 30 all while working at mcdonalds.

I just moved into a new apartment complex, where I overpay, but I pay for the luxury. Meanwhile section 8 residents lives there for like $200/mo.

Ticks me off.

[nutsy54]

Sadly, some people want to believe that "minimum" is the only level possible...

[flairon]

who says minimum wage doesn't mean 'minimum liveable wage'

[Aesthetical]

who says minimum wage doesn't mean 'minimum liveable wage'

There is no acceptable reason a grown man/woman should be making the same wages at a 15/16 yr old with a first job. At some point you need to take responsibility for your own life and the decisions that were made which put you in the position you are in. Obviously everybody has a different story, but there always one thing that remains consistent...lack of education and skill. Being college educated doesnt automatically make you fit for a job, but it shows your employer that you dedicated yourself for 2-4 years and proved yourself on paper your are worth their wages.

[dakensta]

If minimum wage was minimum wage it would be minimum wage. It's not, it's minimum hourly rate of work.

[flairon]

There is no acceptable reason a grown man/woman should be making the same wages at a 15/16 yr old with a first job. At some point you need to take responsibility for your own life and the decisions that were made which put you in the position you are in. Obviously everybody has a different story, but there always one thing that remains consistent...lack of education and skill. Being college educated doesnt automatically make you fit for a job, but it shows your employer that you dedicated yourself for 2-4 years and proved yourself on paper your are worth their wages.

And again...what makes you think that minimum wage isn't supposed to be a minimum liveable wage

15/16 year olds aren't even generally supposed to be working, thats why it usually take parental permission for them to get a job and in most places they can only work so many hours.

An education isn't really a determining factor as it wasn't too long ago that an education was irrelevant to having a good job. The reason that an education in one form or another is almost required today is because the government has made various changes to the country that has forced jobs to drain out of this country, while at the same time practically abolishing labor unions that protected employes...and also at the same time allows thousands of illegals into the country that will work for peanuts


but yea..the real problem s people wanting a wage that at least puts them above the poverty line.

[lsiberian]

We could easily support the poor if we didn't over populate the jails so badly. You can put like 3 kids through college for the cost of jailing one.

[PrettyPinkDonut]

We could easily support the poor if we didn't over populate the jails so badly. You can put like 3 kids through college for the cost of jailing one.

This..our priorities need to be sorted out first

[morninglory81]

who says minimum wage doesn't mean 'minimum liveable wage'

Because if liveable was implied there would be a wage below that to be offered to the 16 year old bagger at the grocery store.

[flairon]

Because if liveable was implied there would be a wage below that to be offered to the 16 year old bagger at the grocery store.

You mean the people that aren't supposed to be working to begin with?

[morninglory81]

You mean the people that aren't supposed to be working to begin with?

If they weren't allowed to be hired than I your argument would be valid but.....

[Aesthetical]

You mean the people that aren't supposed to be working to begin with?

Who states they arent supposed to be working? I think thats a great age for them to start learning responsibilities and how to balance school and work. Generally they will work for min wage 15-20 hours, as did I. My parents forced me to save a certain amount every check and the rest was for me. It shows you the value of money and how quickly it goes.

I learned that if I wanted to make more money, I needed to work harder and put an effort into my education. I didnt need parents to tell me that, thats a given. Do I want to scoop ice cream for the rest of my life and get paid like crap, no. So I did something about it, its not too late for anyone either. But when you decide to add other unnecessary responsibilities upon yourself like having children etc, you cant rely on the government to bail you out of a position you put yourself in.

Even right now im only making $46-50k working around 50-55 hrs a week. Its not ideal but it works for me because im single and the only responsibility I have is myself. Id never in a million years put myself in a hole by bringing anyone else into this world unless I was financially stable. I cant fathom fry cooks making $15/hr. Not even in this realm of possibility.

[flairon]

If they weren't allowed to be hired than I your argument would be valid but.....

Their hours are limited at 16, not allowed to work before 14

[flairon]

Who states they arent supposed to be working? I think thats a great age for them to start learning responsibilities and how to balance school and work. Generally they will work for min wage 15-20 hours, as did I. My parents forced me to save a certain amount every check and the rest was for me. It shows you the value of money and how quickly it goes.

Well why stop there...what about 13..thats a good age too. Just became teenager..should get them out there working and knowing responsiblity too

how about 12

10?


she doesn't need school..playing? pfft..give up those childish things...the only thing that is important is to generate income for someone else.

I learned that if I wanted to make more money, I needed to work harder and put an effort into my education. I didnt need parents to tell me that, thats a given. Do I want to scoop ice cream for the rest of my life and get paid like crap, no. So I did something about it, its not too late for anyone either. But when you decide to add other unnecessary responsibilities upon yourself like having children etc, you cant rely on the government to bail you out of a position you put yourself in.

well awesome for you..im sure there is a medal of some sort on its way to you as we speak.

[RIKTER]

Avg American household income = 53K
2 people living together working full time making new min wage of $15 an hour = $62,400
That wont pull poor people out of poverty as much as it will it will drastically reduce the buying power for middle class Americans thus turning them into working poor. I always hear libs whining about how can the middle class people vote (R) as they are voting against their own interests....if your a middle class guy making $25 an hour, raising min wage to $15 is directly against your best self interests.
I own rental units and get about $750 a flat cause thats all the market will allow..you put 2 guys making new min wage working full time bringing home combined $5200 a month and my rents jump to $1500...lol at anyone thinking prices just gonna go up pennies...

[Aesthetical]

Well why stop there...what about 13..thats a good age too. Just became teenager..should get them out there working and knowing responsiblity too

how about 12

10?


she doesn't need school..playing? pfft..give up those childish things...the only thing that is important is to generate income for someone else.



well awesome for you..im sure there is a medal of some sort on its way to you as we speak.

How about they have chores and house work and are given a weekly allowance.

As to the end of your post. there really is no point in debating with you, you are like a child.

[flairon]

Avg American household income = 53K
2 people living together working full time making new min wage of $15 an hour = $62,400
That wont pull poor people out of poverty as much as it will it will drastically reduce the buying power for middle class Americans thus turning them into working poor. I always hear libs whining about how can the middle class people vote (R) as they are voting against their own interests....if your a middle class guy making $25 an hour, raising min wage to $15 is directly against your best self interests.
I own rental units and get about $750 a flat cause thats all the market will allow..you put 2 guys making new min wage working full time bringing home combined $5200 a month and my rents jump to $1500...lol at anyone thinking prices just gonna go up pennies...

you own rental units and aren't smart enough to figure out that produced goods aren't the same thing as rental income?

[flairon]

How about they have chores and house work and are given a weekly allowance.

and that has what to do with this conversation?

As to the end of your post. there really is no point in debating with you, you are like a child.

There is really no point to debating this because you don't have a leg to stand on.

[Aesthetical]

and that has what to do with this conversation?



There is really no point to debating this because you don't have a leg to stand on.

The leg to stand on is that its minimum wage, not livable wage. If you want to make a living, step away from the fry cooker and obtain a skill.

[morninglory81]

Their hours are limited at 16, not allowed to work before 14

They still get paid min wage which does not have to be liveable at that age.

If liveable is implied there would be a lower wage for this 16yearold.

[flairon]

The leg to stand on is that its minimum wage, not livable wage. If you want to make a living, step away from the fry cooker and obtain a skill.

aaaaand again...who says that it doesn't mean a minimum liveable wage.

Cooking is a skill and also you pay for convenience. If it werent, then you wouldn't be bitching about the increase in the price of burgers, you would take your ass home and make your own burger

[flairon]

They still get paid min wage which does not have to be liveable at that age.

If liveable is implied there would be a lower wage for this 16yearold.

Or maybe it has something to do with the limited amount of hours they are legally allowed to work?

nah..thats just crazy talk.

[RingDips]

I know a highly skilled professional whose entire department (where the salaries ranged from $60k-$100k) got annihilated by outsourcing.

Six months later, he makes $9.80/hr. working retail.

"Hurr durr, he should say to hell with friends, family, roots, and everything he's built, and go chasing the next decent job around the country until that gets outsourced too"

or

"Hurr durr, that's the free market, we need 15 million illegals and who knows how many H1B visa workers, because clearly there are too many good jobs to go around"

The thing that free-market capitalism uber alles proponents don't seem to grasp is that, in days past, a good home on a large plot of land was well within the reach of a man working a dead-end job with a wife and kids at home. Nowadays, that same acquisition necessitates both household adults working at a middle-class wage.

Yes, smartphones and tablets are within the reach of the everyman now. Houses and land are not.

If this is economic progress, call me regressive.

[Aesthetical]

aaaaand again...who says that it doesn't mean a minimum liveable wage.

Cooking is a skill and also you pay for convenience. If it werent, then you wouldn't be bitching about the increase in the price of burgers, you would take your ass home and make your own burger

Per merriam-webster, the accepted definition
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...minimum%20wage

an amount of money that is the least amount of money per hour that workers must be paid according to the law

Living wage: an amount of money you are paid for a job that is large enough to provide you with the basic things (such as food and shelter) needed to live an acceptable life

Not the same.

[aj0538]

Well why stop there...what about 13..thats a good age too. Just became teenager..should get them out there working and knowing responsiblity too

how about 12

10?


she doesn't need school..playing? pfft..give up those childish things...the only thing that is important is to generate income for someone else.



well awesome for you..im sure there is a medal of some sort on its way to you as we speak.

That is the typical strawman argument. Posting a sweat shop picture to make a point? You're better then that.

I had a paper route and cut lawns at 13. Worked in a pharmacy and gas station at 16 . At 17 I ran a business where I'd don scuba gear and clean racing sailboats from a zodiac during summer months. I had my own car (sweet 68 GTO) before I had my license. I helped put myself through college while working full time. I know have a great life and provide more then enough for my family and ask for and expect nothing. I've never worked for minimum wage because I found other ways.

You're never too young to start learning responsibility and if you're a decent parent you'll teach your kids to learn the same.

[flairon]

That is the typical strawman argument. Posting a sweat shop picture to make a point? You're better then that.

Not just a sweat shop...thats child labor in the U.S. back whey we let businesses set laws about labor. And now we want to let businesses set laws for labor again? No thanks jeff.

I had a paper route and cut lawns at 13. Worked in a pharmacy and gas station at 16 . At 17 I ran a business where I'd don scuba gear and clean racing sailboats from a zodiac during summer months. I had my own car (sweet 68 GTO) before I had my license. I helped put myself through college while working full time. I know have a great life and provide more then enough for my family and ask for and expect nothing. I've never worked for minimum wage because I found other ways.

You're never too young to start learning responsibility and if you're a decent parent you'll teach your kids to learn the same.

a paper route and cutting lawns is not the same thing as a regular job. at 16 you were only allowed to work so many hours.


cool..then lets get these slackers out of elementary school so they can start lurnin them some responsiblity.