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  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by Jesse_l_g View Post
    Yes people's lives are ruined by coffee. Many many people are hopelessly addicted. It causes significant adrenal problems and insomnia. Again don't mistake what I am saying as ******* is better or anything like that....but if you bothered to look at the actual statistics you would know that most ******* users are just as responsible with their use. I understand the mainstream perception is its a terribly destructive drug (and it is) but the fact is it doesn't have any more of an addiction risk than alcohol caffeine and nicotine. The only real difference is caffeine is socially acceptable to the point of feeding huge amounts to our kids...making it more of a social problem than most illegal drugs. At least there is a social stigma with *******.


    There is a significant difference between ******* and caffeine and I can't believe you are trying to equate them to one another. First off I don't see people rocking up NoDoz and smoking it like crack or going IV with it. Nor are there people whoring themselves to support their caffeine addiction( except fitfanatic under some circumstances ).The reason they are willing to do that is due to the level of addiction that ******* use/abuse induces. Your mental state after using ******* is significantly different than after using caffeine. Also caffeine withdraw symptoms only last a day or two and ******* withdraw last a week or two.

    Caffeine is unlikely to cause insomnia unless you drink it late in the day. Half of it is out of your system in a few hours. Even if you do suffer from caffeine induced insomnia how can you put that on the same level as giving alleyway BJs to support your ******* habit? There is a lot more difference between the two than the social stigma of *******.
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    Originally Posted by Jesse_l_g View Post
    Coffee is a hell of a drug. srs. It's another one of those things people think of as harmless because it happens to be legal. There is a terrible problem with people getting addicted and depending on caffeine. IMO its a huge social problem. When i was a kid mountain dew was considered very high in caffeine...now days kids are drinking BAC of monster energy like it's water. I really think the consequences are significant. Everything from affecting sleep and all the health consequences of that to adrenal problems. If you are depending on it throughout the day for energy its a real problem...as i am sure most of us have at one point or another.

    I love coffee but try to respect it for the powerful drug it is. I almost never have more than one cup in the morning. When i start to look to it for energy throughout the day I use that as a sign i need to look over my diet and lifestyle habits...and maybe take a break from caffeine.
    I couldnt agree more. I live in a neigbourhood where cheap prostitution is rampant and I have often seen hookers head for the local caffé, no doubt to fuel their addcition futher. Im sure coffee addiction is what got them into this sordid line of business too.

    Wasnt rev. Jim Jones a coffee addict too?
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  3. #33
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    Coffee makes me nauseous. I abuse other forms of caffeine though. Also, it seems like a lot of work to make coffee.

    Caffiene and ******* are not the same. Though, caffiene withdrawals aren't fun
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    Originally Posted by nicholina View Post
    Coffee makes me nauseous. I abuse other forms of caffeine though. Also, it seems like a lot of work to make coffee.

    Caffiene and ******* are not the same. Though, caffiene withdrawals aren't fun
    Not with a Keurig, 40 seconds and you're done.


    Also, for some reason I've never gotten caffeine withdraw symptoms. I drink 6-8 cups a day during the week straight up black, but rarely any on the weekends. I never seem to notice anything.
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    Originally Posted by Mdenatale View Post
    There is a significant difference between ******* and caffeine and I can't believe you are trying to equate them to one another. First off I don't see people rocking up NoDoz and smoking it like crack or going IV with it. Nor are there people whoring themselves to support their caffeine addiction( except fitfanatic under some circumstances ).The reason they are willing to do that is due to the level of addiction that ******* use/abuse induces. Your mental state after using ******* is significantly different than after using caffeine. Also caffeine withdraw symptoms only last a day or two and ******* withdraw last a week or two.

    Caffeine is unlikely to cause insomnia unless you drink it late in the day. Half of it is out of your system in a few hours. Even if you do suffer from caffeine induced insomnia how can you put that on the same level as giving alleyway BJs to support your ******* habit? There is a lot more difference between the two than the social stigma of *******.
    Please re read what I wrote. I don't think you are really understanding what I am trying to say. I understand they aren't the same drug and again I don't use ******* but do choose to use caffeine... but your perception of ******* is distorted. Most ******* users don't give BJ to support their habit and let's be honest. Getting addicted to ******* is a lot more expensive than caffeine and comes with its own problems associated with the black market because it's illegal...that doesn't mean caffeine isn't the overall bigger social problem. It's well know how popular ******* was/is in the banking industry. It just isn't true that ******* users abuse it any more than other drugs. Lots of people use it through the day in the same way people use caffeine without it ruining there life. I am just saying because ******* has a social stigma attached to it (that's a good thing) it really isn't as big of an overall social problem as caffeine that people act like is harmless and feed grams of it to their kids. Nobody is giving their kids *******. I understand this is kind of hard to wrap your head around and even still is to me because of the propaganda we have been fed. If you looked into it I think you would be surprised. Withdrawal from caffeine is much tougher from what I understand btw.
    …we have not spent the last 65 million or so years finely honing our physiology to watch Oprah. Like it or not, we are the product of a very long process of adaptation to a harsh physical existence, and the past couple centuries of comparative ease and plenty are not enough time to change our genome. We humans are at our best when our existence mirrors, or at least simulates, the one we are still genetically adapted to live. And that is the purpose of exercise. - Mark Rippetoe
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    Originally Posted by Jesse_l_g View Post
    Please re read what I wrote. I don't think you are really understanding what I am trying to say. I understand they aren't the same drug and again I don't use ******* but do choose to use caffeine... but your perception of ******* is distorted. Most ******* users don't give BJ to support their habit and let's be honest. Getting addicted to ******* is a lot more expensive than caffeine and comes with its own problems associated with the black market because it's illegal...that doesn't mean caffeine isn't the overall bigger social problem. It's well know how popular ******* was/is in the banking industry. It just isn't true that ******* users abuse it any more than other drugs. Lots of people use it through the day in the same way people use caffeine without it ruining there life. I am just saying because ******* has a social stigma attached to it (that's a good thing) it really isn't as big of an overall social problem as caffeine that people act like is harmless and feed grams of it to their kids. Nobody is giving their kids *******. I understand this is kind of hard to wrap your head around and even still is to me because of the propaganda we have been fed. If you looked into it I think you would be surprised. Withdrawal from caffeine is much tougher from what I understand btw.

    What is the evidence of this huge caffeine induced social problem?


    So the virtuous ******* users in the banking industry are you shinning example of responsible drug abuse? lol

    How many ******* users have you known or even personally met? My guess is few to none, otherwise you would have a significantly different perspective. With ******* you build up a tolerance to it to a much greater degree than caffeine. You have to continually increase the amount and frequency of use to get the same high. You don't see that with caffeine. Every user of ******* will either kick the habit on their own or they will eventually encounter an event that forces them to kick the habit. Good luck finding a "normal" long term user of *******. And it does not take much to get addicted to *******. Less than $100 can start you down a terrible path. To say that ******* isn't as big of an overall social problem as caffeine is absolutely ridiculous. How much street crime is generated due to caffeine? How many people are homeless due to their caffeine addiction? How many ER visits are there every year for caffeine OD? You have a severely twisted point of view on this.
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    caffeine pills for me!
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    Originally Posted by Mdenatale View Post
    What is the evidence of this huge caffeine induced social problem?


    So the virtuous ******* users in the banking industry are you shinning example of responsible drug abuse? lol

    How many ******* users have you known or even personally met? My guess is few to none, otherwise you would have a significantly different perspective. With ******* you build up a tolerance to it to a much greater degree than caffeine. You have to continually increase the amount and frequency of use to get the same high. You don't see that with caffeine. Every user of ******* will either kick the habit on their own or they will eventually encounter an event that forces them to kick the habit. Good luck finding a "normal" long term user of *******. And it does not take much to get addicted to *******. Less than $100 can start you down a terrible path. To say that ******* isn't as big of an overall social problem as caffeine is absolutely ridiculous. How much street crime is generated due to caffeine? How many people are homeless due to their caffeine addiction? How many ER visits are there every year for caffeine OD? You have a severely twisted point of view on this.
    I keep getting side tracked because what you understand about ******* just isn't true. It's not as terribly addictive as you think...that's just a fact not that I am trying to use it in anyway to support ******* use. The fact is alcohol nicotine and caffeine are some of the most physically addictive drugs there are by a long shot. Largely though addiction is a mental health problem. It just straight up isn't true that people get physically addicted from less than $100 of *******.

    Exactly. I know very few people that have used ******* and non of them got hopelessly addicted. On the other hand I know many people who are literally physically addicted to caffeine to the point they want to quite but can't. I see kids drinking red bull before school and yo yoing from fix to fix all day. Almost all the adults I know use it many showing obvious signs of adrenal problems and insomnia.

    Again I use caffeine. My entire point is it is a powerful and addictive drug people take for granted. I was just trying to put some perspective compared to other drugs.
    …we have not spent the last 65 million or so years finely honing our physiology to watch Oprah. Like it or not, we are the product of a very long process of adaptation to a harsh physical existence, and the past couple centuries of comparative ease and plenty are not enough time to change our genome. We humans are at our best when our existence mirrors, or at least simulates, the one we are still genetically adapted to live. And that is the purpose of exercise. - Mark Rippetoe
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    Good entertainments. Thanks, guys.
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    Originally Posted by WonderPug View Post
    Good entertainments. Thanks, guys.
    Doesn't drink coffee crew. If anything tea.
    - Your mindset influences your outcome. It's time to take out phrases like "I can't" or "I don't have time" and replace them with phrases like "I will make the time" and "I will keep working at it until I find a way that works." Success starts with the right mindset and believing in yourself and your dreams.
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  11. #41
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    Originally Posted by WonderPug View Post
    Good entertainments. Thanks, guys.
    I swear my addiction is to controversial conversations. Happy Friday!
    …we have not spent the last 65 million or so years finely honing our physiology to watch Oprah. Like it or not, we are the product of a very long process of adaptation to a harsh physical existence, and the past couple centuries of comparative ease and plenty are not enough time to change our genome. We humans are at our best when our existence mirrors, or at least simulates, the one we are still genetically adapted to live. And that is the purpose of exercise. - Mark Rippetoe
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    I'd say ******* can be an occasional recreational thing for some people. I've never tried it, but I know people do it once in a while without much consequence.


    Not sure what this has to do with coffee. But whatever.
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    Originally Posted by Jesse_l_g View Post
    I keep getting side tracked because what you understand about ******* just isn't true. It's not as terribly addictive as you think...that's just a fact not that I am trying to use it in anyway to support ******* use. The fact is alcohol nicotine and caffeine are some of the most physically addictive drugs there are by a long shot. Largely though addiction is a mental health problem. It just straight up isn't true that people get physically addicted from less than $100 of *******.<--- No, that is the straight up truth

    Exactly. I know very few people that have used ******* and non of them got hopelessly addicted. On the other hand I know many people who are literally physically addicted to caffeine to the point they want to quite but can't. I see kids drinking red bull before school and yo yoing from fix to fix all day. Almost all the adults I know use it many showing obvious signs of adrenal problems and insomnia.

    Again I use caffeine. My entire point is it is a powerful and addictive drug people take for granted. I was just trying to put some perspective compared to other drugs.
    What you have been saying is that caffeine is a bigger social issue than *******. Nothing could be farther from the truth. How many people have lost their job thanks to their caffeine habit? Both caffeine and ******* are addicting, but how many of those people you know that are addicted to caffeine would resort to criminal activity to get their fix? Sell their bodies?


    I had the unfortunate opportunity to know many drug users and abusers when I was a teenager. I was in with the wrong crowd and did a lot of things I regret. But I got out of there and turned everything around. So yes, I know people that used and stopped before it became a problem, but I know so many people that started with what you are calling casual ******* use and in a relatively short amount of time were resorting criminal activity and ultimately ending up in jail, dead and/or doing things they will regret for the rest of their lives. How many lives have been totally and irrevocably ruined by caffeine? Saying caffeine is a bigger social problem than ******* is utter nonsense and one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.
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    Originally Posted by Mdenatale View Post
    What you have been saying is that caffeine is a bigger social issue than *******. Nothing could be farther from the truth. How many people have lost their job thanks to their caffeine habit? Yes both caffeine and ******* are addicting, but how many of those people you know that are addicting to caffeine would resort to criminal activity to get their fix? Sell their bodies?


    I had the unfortunate opportunity to know many drug users and abusers when I was a teenager. I was in with the wrong crowd and did a lot of things I regret. But I got out of there and turned everything around. Yes, I know people that used and stopped before it became a problem, but I know so many people that started with what you are calling casual ******* use and in a relatively short amount of time were resorting criminal activity and ultimately ending up in jail, dead and/or doing things they will regret for the rest of there lives. How many lives have been totally and irrevocably ruined by caffeine? Saying caffeine is a bigger social problem than ******* is utter nonsense and one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.
    Yea. Addictions are srs business...and that's really the point I am trying to make. I just think you underestimate how many health problems are associated with the large amount of caffeine such a huge number of people are dependent on. I would think overall a lot more people have lost their job or ruined relationships because of being addicted to caffeine from the mood swings and health consequences associated with it. I am sure you have dealt with a coffee addict before their first cup. Obviously there are a LOT more caffeine users than most other drugs. I just wish society had a more honest perspective. It just isn't true that the average ******* user abuses it and it's kind of silly society looks down on the occasional illicit drug user but doesn't think twice about someone depending on 6 cups of coffee to make it through the day. To back off a bit I might be being a little hyperbole to make my point that caffeine is a powerful and addictive drug with significant health consequences people take for granted. IMO for their own sake people shouldn't become dependent on any drugs.
    …we have not spent the last 65 million or so years finely honing our physiology to watch Oprah. Like it or not, we are the product of a very long process of adaptation to a harsh physical existence, and the past couple centuries of comparative ease and plenty are not enough time to change our genome. We humans are at our best when our existence mirrors, or at least simulates, the one we are still genetically adapted to live. And that is the purpose of exercise. - Mark Rippetoe
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    There's this guy at my work who is a raging caffeine addict, one of the worst caffeine habits I have seen.

    I see him going in and out of the break room feeding his habit continuously throughout the day.

    To make matters worse, he's actually trying to push this junk on other employees.
    He gets so pissed off when someone takes the last cup and doesn't start a new pot.
    He told the office manager to keep the coffee stocked and flowing to keep the employees motivated,
    and told her to buy the good junk, spare no expense to keep everyone hooked.

    I'm pretty sure he picked up his habit when he was at Harvard getting his MBA with all the other East Coast Ivy League caffeine junkies.

    These days you can see the devistation it has caused in his life. CEO of the company, Board of Directors of several other companies, millions in the bank, big house, 5 cars, vacations to exotic locations, happy wife and kids at home, high level of fitness despite his advanced age.

    Just another addict.

    Caffeine is some bad chit.
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    Originally Posted by Jesse_l_g View Post
    Happy Friday!
    Thanks, you too.
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    Originally Posted by ChiBeargettsfan View Post
    Caffeine is some bad chit.
    That's not what i am trying to say. I love caffeine but think it should be respected for what it is. Anyway I feel I am being horribly misunderstood and it's only getting worse as I clumsily try to explain myself. I also have a feeling you are a little defensive because of your own dependence. It just isn't healthy to depend on stimulates to get you through the day.....but that's kind of the psychosis our society has come to...depending on sugar and caffeine every few hours to stay motivated and productive. It's a lot easier than addressing dietary and lifestyle habits...health be damned.
    …we have not spent the last 65 million or so years finely honing our physiology to watch Oprah. Like it or not, we are the product of a very long process of adaptation to a harsh physical existence, and the past couple centuries of comparative ease and plenty are not enough time to change our genome. We humans are at our best when our existence mirrors, or at least simulates, the one we are still genetically adapted to live. And that is the purpose of exercise. - Mark Rippetoe
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  18. #48
    Slicing up eyeballs ChiBearsfan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jesse_l_g View Post
    That's not what i am trying to say. I love caffeine but think it should be respected for what it is. Anyway I feel I am being horribly misunderstood and it's only getting worse as I clumsily try to explain myself. I also have a feeling you are a little defensive because of your own dependence. It just isn't healthy to depend on stimulates to get you through the day.....but that's kind of the psychosis our society has come to...depending on sugar and caffeine every few hours to stay motivated and productive. It's a lot easier than addressing dietary and lifestyle habits...health be damned.
    I'm hooked. In all likelihood I have had at least 1 cup and as many as over a pot every day since I was 18. A 21 year habit... hooked.

    Just don't see the downside.
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  19. #49
    Cutting Mdenatale's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ChiBearsfan View Post
    I'm hooked. In all likelihood I have had at least 1 cup and as many as over a pot every day since I was 18. A 21 year habit... hooked.

    Just don't see the downside.
    That was kind of my point. There are literally millions of people that drink coffee their entire life with no long term problems and no social issues (jail, death, homelessness)

    The same can't be said for *******.


    Long term effects of *******:
    Permanent damage to blood vessels of heart and brain
    High blood pressure, leading to heart attacks, strokes, and death
    Liver, kidney and lung damage
    Destruction of tissues in nose if sniffed
    Respiratory failure if smoked
    Infectious diseases and abscesses if injected
    Malnutrition, weight loss
    Severe tooth decay
    Auditory and tactile hallucinations
    Sexual problems, reproductive damage and infertility (for both men and women)
    Disorientation, apathy, confused exhaustion
    Irritability and mood disturbances
    Increased frequency of risky behavior
    Delirium or psychosis
    Severe depression
    Tolerance and addiction (even after just one use)



    Sorry for the rant
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  20. #50
    Registered User EL37's Avatar
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    Wow, I did not even see the second page at first. That is where the fun begins.
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