There is a significant difference between ******* and caffeine and I can't believe you are trying to equate them to one another. First off I don't see people rocking up NoDoz and smoking it like crack or going IV with it. Nor are there people whoring themselves to support their caffeine addiction( except fitfanatic under some circumstances ).The reason they are willing to do that is due to the level of addiction that ******* use/abuse induces. Your mental state after using ******* is significantly different than after using caffeine. Also caffeine withdraw symptoms only last a day or two and ******* withdraw last a week or two.
Caffeine is unlikely to cause insomnia unless you drink it late in the day. Half of it is out of your system in a few hours. Even if you do suffer from caffeine induced insomnia how can you put that on the same level as giving alleyway BJs to support your ******* habit? There is a lot more difference between the two than the social stigma of *******.
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Thread: Coffee
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05-09-2014, 09:28 AM #31
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05-09-2014, 09:38 AM #32
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I couldnt agree more. I live in a neigbourhood where cheap prostitution is rampant and I have often seen hookers head for the local caffé, no doubt to fuel their addcition futher. Im sure coffee addiction is what got them into this sordid line of business too.
Wasnt rev. Jim Jones a coffee addict too?Eddie Izzard for Mayor!!!!
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05-09-2014, 09:40 AM #33
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05-09-2014, 09:49 AM #34
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05-09-2014, 10:00 AM #35
Please re read what I wrote. I don't think you are really understanding what I am trying to say. I understand they aren't the same drug and again I don't use ******* but do choose to use caffeine... but your perception of ******* is distorted. Most ******* users don't give BJ to support their habit and let's be honest. Getting addicted to ******* is a lot more expensive than caffeine and comes with its own problems associated with the black market because it's illegal...that doesn't mean caffeine isn't the overall bigger social problem. It's well know how popular ******* was/is in the banking industry. It just isn't true that ******* users abuse it any more than other drugs. Lots of people use it through the day in the same way people use caffeine without it ruining there life. I am just saying because ******* has a social stigma attached to it (that's a good thing) it really isn't as big of an overall social problem as caffeine that people act like is harmless and feed grams of it to their kids. Nobody is giving their kids *******. I understand this is kind of hard to wrap your head around and even still is to me because of the propaganda we have been fed. If you looked into it I think you would be surprised. Withdrawal from caffeine is much tougher from what I understand btw.
…we have not spent the last 65 million or so years finely honing our physiology to watch Oprah. Like it or not, we are the product of a very long process of adaptation to a harsh physical existence, and the past couple centuries of comparative ease and plenty are not enough time to change our genome. We humans are at our best when our existence mirrors, or at least simulates, the one we are still genetically adapted to live. And that is the purpose of exercise. - Mark Rippetoe
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05-09-2014, 10:27 AM #36
What is the evidence of this huge caffeine induced social problem?
So the virtuous ******* users in the banking industry are you shinning example of responsible drug abuse? lol
How many ******* users have you known or even personally met? My guess is few to none, otherwise you would have a significantly different perspective. With ******* you build up a tolerance to it to a much greater degree than caffeine. You have to continually increase the amount and frequency of use to get the same high. You don't see that with caffeine. Every user of ******* will either kick the habit on their own or they will eventually encounter an event that forces them to kick the habit. Good luck finding a "normal" long term user of *******. And it does not take much to get addicted to *******. Less than $100 can start you down a terrible path. To say that ******* isn't as big of an overall social problem as caffeine is absolutely ridiculous. How much street crime is generated due to caffeine? How many people are homeless due to their caffeine addiction? How many ER visits are there every year for caffeine OD? You have a severely twisted point of view on this.
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05-09-2014, 10:46 AM #37
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05-09-2014, 10:46 AM #38
I keep getting side tracked because what you understand about ******* just isn't true. It's not as terribly addictive as you think...that's just a fact not that I am trying to use it in anyway to support ******* use. The fact is alcohol nicotine and caffeine are some of the most physically addictive drugs there are by a long shot. Largely though addiction is a mental health problem. It just straight up isn't true that people get physically addicted from less than $100 of *******.
Exactly. I know very few people that have used ******* and non of them got hopelessly addicted. On the other hand I know many people who are literally physically addicted to caffeine to the point they want to quite but can't. I see kids drinking red bull before school and yo yoing from fix to fix all day. Almost all the adults I know use it many showing obvious signs of adrenal problems and insomnia.
Again I use caffeine. My entire point is it is a powerful and addictive drug people take for granted. I was just trying to put some perspective compared to other drugs.…we have not spent the last 65 million or so years finely honing our physiology to watch Oprah. Like it or not, we are the product of a very long process of adaptation to a harsh physical existence, and the past couple centuries of comparative ease and plenty are not enough time to change our genome. We humans are at our best when our existence mirrors, or at least simulates, the one we are still genetically adapted to live. And that is the purpose of exercise. - Mark Rippetoe
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05-09-2014, 10:48 AM #39
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05-09-2014, 10:54 AM #40- Your mindset influences your outcome. It's time to take out phrases like "I can't" or "I don't have time" and replace them with phrases like "I will make the time" and "I will keep working at it until I find a way that works." Success starts with the right mindset and believing in yourself and your dreams.
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05-09-2014, 10:58 AM #41…we have not spent the last 65 million or so years finely honing our physiology to watch Oprah. Like it or not, we are the product of a very long process of adaptation to a harsh physical existence, and the past couple centuries of comparative ease and plenty are not enough time to change our genome. We humans are at our best when our existence mirrors, or at least simulates, the one we are still genetically adapted to live. And that is the purpose of exercise. - Mark Rippetoe
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05-09-2014, 11:06 AM #42
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05-09-2014, 11:19 AM #43
What you have been saying is that caffeine is a bigger social issue than *******. Nothing could be farther from the truth. How many people have lost their job thanks to their caffeine habit? Both caffeine and ******* are addicting, but how many of those people you know that are addicted to caffeine would resort to criminal activity to get their fix? Sell their bodies?
I had the unfortunate opportunity to know many drug users and abusers when I was a teenager. I was in with the wrong crowd and did a lot of things I regret. But I got out of there and turned everything around. So yes, I know people that used and stopped before it became a problem, but I know so many people that started with what you are calling casual ******* use and in a relatively short amount of time were resorting criminal activity and ultimately ending up in jail, dead and/or doing things they will regret for the rest of their lives. How many lives have been totally and irrevocably ruined by caffeine? Saying caffeine is a bigger social problem than ******* is utter nonsense and one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.Last edited by Mdenatale; 05-09-2014 at 11:36 AM.
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05-09-2014, 11:51 AM #44
Yea. Addictions are srs business...and that's really the point I am trying to make. I just think you underestimate how many health problems are associated with the large amount of caffeine such a huge number of people are dependent on. I would think overall a lot more people have lost their job or ruined relationships because of being addicted to caffeine from the mood swings and health consequences associated with it. I am sure you have dealt with a coffee addict before their first cup. Obviously there are a LOT more caffeine users than most other drugs. I just wish society had a more honest perspective. It just isn't true that the average ******* user abuses it and it's kind of silly society looks down on the occasional illicit drug user but doesn't think twice about someone depending on 6 cups of coffee to make it through the day. To back off a bit I might be being a little hyperbole to make my point that caffeine is a powerful and addictive drug with significant health consequences people take for granted. IMO for their own sake people shouldn't become dependent on any drugs.
…we have not spent the last 65 million or so years finely honing our physiology to watch Oprah. Like it or not, we are the product of a very long process of adaptation to a harsh physical existence, and the past couple centuries of comparative ease and plenty are not enough time to change our genome. We humans are at our best when our existence mirrors, or at least simulates, the one we are still genetically adapted to live. And that is the purpose of exercise. - Mark Rippetoe
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05-09-2014, 12:02 PM #45
There's this guy at my work who is a raging caffeine addict, one of the worst caffeine habits I have seen.
I see him going in and out of the break room feeding his habit continuously throughout the day.
To make matters worse, he's actually trying to push this junk on other employees.
He gets so pissed off when someone takes the last cup and doesn't start a new pot.
He told the office manager to keep the coffee stocked and flowing to keep the employees motivated,
and told her to buy the good junk, spare no expense to keep everyone hooked.
I'm pretty sure he picked up his habit when he was at Harvard getting his MBA with all the other East Coast Ivy League caffeine junkies.
These days you can see the devistation it has caused in his life. CEO of the company, Board of Directors of several other companies, millions in the bank, big house, 5 cars, vacations to exotic locations, happy wife and kids at home, high level of fitness despite his advanced age.
Just another addict.
Caffeine is some bad chit.
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05-09-2014, 12:04 PM #46
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05-09-2014, 12:22 PM #47
That's not what i am trying to say. I love caffeine but think it should be respected for what it is. Anyway I feel I am being horribly misunderstood and it's only getting worse as I clumsily try to explain myself. I also have a feeling you are a little defensive because of your own dependence. It just isn't healthy to depend on stimulates to get you through the day.....but that's kind of the psychosis our society has come to...depending on sugar and caffeine every few hours to stay motivated and productive. It's a lot easier than addressing dietary and lifestyle habits...health be damned.
…we have not spent the last 65 million or so years finely honing our physiology to watch Oprah. Like it or not, we are the product of a very long process of adaptation to a harsh physical existence, and the past couple centuries of comparative ease and plenty are not enough time to change our genome. We humans are at our best when our existence mirrors, or at least simulates, the one we are still genetically adapted to live. And that is the purpose of exercise. - Mark Rippetoe
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05-09-2014, 12:32 PM #48
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05-09-2014, 01:06 PM #49
That was kind of my point. There are literally millions of people that drink coffee their entire life with no long term problems and no social issues (jail, death, homelessness)
The same can't be said for *******.
Long term effects of *******:
Permanent damage to blood vessels of heart and brain
High blood pressure, leading to heart attacks, strokes, and death
Liver, kidney and lung damage
Destruction of tissues in nose if sniffed
Respiratory failure if smoked
Infectious diseases and abscesses if injected
Malnutrition, weight loss
Severe tooth decay
Auditory and tactile hallucinations
Sexual problems, reproductive damage and infertility (for both men and women)
Disorientation, apathy, confused exhaustion
Irritability and mood disturbances
Increased frequency of risky behavior
Delirium or psychosis
Severe depression
Tolerance and addiction (even after just one use)
Sorry for the rant
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05-10-2014, 11:25 AM #50
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