Creatine advice needed?

[Mojoke]

I am considering slowly adding creatine in the mix.
Should you have some bloodwork done before to check if your liver/kidneys are good enough and whether your muscles aren't saturated already naturally?

Regarding the product itself? Which are reliable products?
Should you rather go with:
a) a pure creatine monohydrate such as creapure
b) a designer creatine such as green magnitude by CL
c) a post work out supp containing besides creatine also carbs and bcaa and stuff?

[djflex]

I see no reason for bloodwork, my god its just creatine. Probably the most widely used supp on earth.

I like the micronized creatine, but just get the plain old mono if i was you

[GONZO613]

Creapure mono by allmax is good. Creatine is safe and effective just follow the directions on the label.

[WillBrink]

I am considering slowly adding creatine in the mix.
Should you have some bloodwork done before to check if your liver/kidneys are good enough and whether your muscles aren't saturated already naturally?

Regarding the product itself? Which are reliable products?
Should you rather go with:
a) a pure creatine monohydrate such as creapure
b) a designer creatine such as green magnitude by CL
c) a post work out supp containing besides creatine also carbs and bcaa and stuff?

This is new and exciting....

(1) not bad for kidney or liver
(2) has many potential health benefits
(3) answer to Q is (a)

[JOHN GARGANI]

Mojoke: have you done your homework, do you know what creatine is? the concept of how it might or might not help you?

you don't sound too informed about it from a scientific point of view....

[TheIronMaster]

You should have your creatine levels checked prior. Mine were good doc said I don't to supplement. But I was a bull head and did. Levels were well beyond normal. So please be carefull.

[Gunny57]

My wife has Stage 4 Chronic Kidney disease, and her CREATININE (note spelling difference) levels are through the roof, and she has been put on a protein-restricted diet. Even WITH her protein restrictions, she is allowed .5g-.8g/lb of BW of protein per day. Her Dr said that moderate weight training would be a benefit, as it will help with lowering her blood pressure, weight loss, and maintain healthy muscle tone, but a rapid or excessive increase in muscle mass could raise creatinine levels.

From what I understand, CREATININE is a by-product of muscular development, not DIRECTLY related to CREATINE levels (but they do have some effect. The example the Dr. gave was: think of protein as bricks, creatine as the mortar holding the bricks, and the creatinine as the stuff disposed of after the bricklayer dresses the joint. Provided that your kidneys are healthy, taking creatine supps should not hurt.

Creatine supps have NOT been shown to CAUSE kidney problems, but MAY have a negative effect on those who ALREADY HAVE kidney disease. Always check with your Doc or Nephrologist (kidney specialist) if you ever have any questions or apprehensions about it.

Supplements are just that - SUPPLEMENTS, not substitutions. They are ONLY there to make up any shortages you may have in your diet, NOT to "make up the difference" in attempting to make a poor diet "work".

[WillBrink]

You should have your creatine levels checked prior. Mine were good doc said I don't to supplement. But I was a bull head and did. Levels were well beyond normal. So please be carefull.

You can't check creatine levels via blood test nor did you have you creatine levels checked. Try again, this time giving accurate info. This is how bro science creatine mythology survives: people who don't know much about a topic giving advice to people who know even less about the topic. Where to start to get edu-mi-cated on creatine:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/willbrink17.htm

[TheIronMaster]

You can't check creatine levels via blood test nor did you have you creatine levels checked. Try again, this time giving accurate info. This is how bro science creatine mythology survives: people who don't know much about a topic giving advice to people who know even less about the topic. Where to start to get edu-mi-cated on creatine:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/willbrink17.htm

Hey I was only telling what my doc said. I'll get the spelling from her then. Could be 2 different things.

Ahh ok could be CREATININE as Gunny mentioned .I am diabetic and they do check my kidney functions and A1c every 6 months.

[WillBrink]

Hey I was only telling what my doc said. I'll get the spelling from her then. Could be 2 different things.

You either misheard what he/she said, or you have a crappy doc. They did not check your creatine, period.

Ahh ok could be CREATININE as Gunny mentioned .I am diabetic and they do check my kidney functions and A1c every 6 months.

And did you know creatine has benefits to diabetics (reduced HbA1c significantly, etc) as well as many other diseases and human conditions? Read link provided...

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2011 May;43(5):770-8.
Creatine in type 2 diabetes: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial.

Abstract

Creatine supplementation improves glucose tolerance in healthy subjects.

PURPOSES:

The aim was to investigate whether creatine supplementation has a beneficial effect on glycemic control of type 2 diabetic patients undergoing exercise training.

METHODS:

A 12-wk randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial was performed. The patients were allocated to receive either creatine (CR) (5 g·d) or placebo (PL) and were enrolled in an exercise training program. The primary outcome was glycosylated hemoglobin (HbA1c). Secondary outcomes included the area under the curve of glucose, insulin, and C-peptide and insulin sensitivity indexes. Physical capacity, lipid profile, and GLUT-4 protein expression and translocation were also assessed.

RESULTS:

Twenty-five subjects were analyzed (CR: n=13; PL: n=12). HbA1c was significantly reduced in the creatine group when compared with the placebo group (CR: PRE=7.4 ± 0.7, POST=6.4 ± 0.4; PL: PRE=7.5 ± 0.6, POST=7.6 ± 0.7; P=0.004; difference=-1.1%, 95% confidence interval=-1.9% to -0.4%). The delta area under the curve of glucose concentration was significantly lower in the CR group than in the PL group (CR=-7790 ± 4600, PL=2008 ± 7614; P=0.05). The CR group also presented decreased glycemia at times 0, 30, and 60 min during a meal tolerance test and increased GLUT-4 translocation. Insulin and C-peptide concentrations, surrogates of insulin sensitivity, physical capacity, lipid profile, and adverse effects were comparable between the groups.


CONCLUSIONS:

Creatine supplementation combined with an exercise program improves glycemic control in type 2 diabetic patients. The underlying mechanism seems to be related to an increase in GLUT-4 recruitment to the sarcolemma.

[TheIronMaster]

Very nice info thanks. She pronounced it crea-ah-teen like I hear many say when there looking for creatine. I told her it was elevated because my pre-workout his it in. Now that I see they are 2 different things im going to make another apt.

[WillBrink]

Very nice info thanks. She pronounced it crea-ah-teen like I hear many say when there looking for creatine. I told her it was elevated because my pre-workout his it in. Now that I see they are 2 different things im going to make another apt.

You'll find creatinine (vs creatine) covered in the report I supplied link for which will give you the needed info. If the doc gives you some noise about creatine and being a diabetic:

Eur J Appl Physiol. 2011 May;111(5):749-56.

Creatine supplementation does not impair kidney function in type 2 diabetic patients: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, clinical trial.

Gualano B1, de Salles Painelli V, Roschel H, Lugaresi R, Dorea E, Artioli GG, Lima FR, da Silva ME, Cunha MR, Seguro AC, Shimizu MH, Otaduy MC, Sapienza MT, da Costa Leite C, Bonfá E, Lancha Junior AH.
Author information

Abstract

Creatine supplementation may have a therapeutic role in diabetes, but it is uncertain whether this supplement is safe for kidney function. The aim of this study was to investigate the effects of creatine supplementation on kidney function in type 2 diabetic patients. A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial was performed. The patients were randomly allocated to receive either creatine or placebo for 12 weeks. All the patients underwent exercise training throughout the trial. Subjects were assessed at baseline and after the intervention. Blood samples and 24-h urine samples were obtained for kidney function assessments. Additionally, (51)Cr-EDTA clearance was performed. To ensure the compliance with creatine intake, we also assessed muscle phosphorylcreatine content. The creatine group presented higher muscle phosphorylcreatine content when compared to placebo group (CR Pre 44 ± 10, Post 70 ± 18 mmol/kg/wt; PL Pre 52 ± 13, Post 46 ± 13 mmol/kg/wt; p = 0.03; estimated difference between means 23.6; 95% confidence interval 1.42-45.8). No significant differences were observed for (51)Cr-EDTA clearance (CR Pre 90.4 ± 16.9, Post 96.1 ± 15.0 mL/min/1.73 m(2); PL Pre 97.9 ± 21.6, Post 96.4 ± 26.8 mL/min/1.73 m(2); p = 0.58; estimated difference between means -0.3; 95% confidence interval -24.9 to 24.2). Creatinine clearance, serum and urinary urea, electrolytes, proteinuria, and albuminuria were unchanged. CR supplementation does not affect kidney function in type 2 diabetic patients, opening a window of opportunities to explore its promising therapeutic role in this population.

[pastorgbc]

Doctors measure creatinine levels in the blood to dtermine how well the kidneys are working. If your kidneys are not working well, creatinine, which is a waste product, tends to be high.

If you supplement with creatine, your creatinie levels can be higher. If you overdo with creatine, and you are eating a diet high in red meat, they can be very high. This does not damage your kidneys, but your kidneys are not going to remove all of the creatinine from your system.

If you have bloodwork done, and it shows high creatinine levels, your doctor is going to suspect kidney problems. Tell your doctor what you are doing as far as diet/supplementation go. Your doctor will probably still suggest further rests to verify kidney function. This all should not be construed as creatine causing any kidney damage.

Ray

[Mojoke]

This is new and exciting....

(1) not bad for kidney or liver
(2) has many potential health benefits
(3) answer to Q is (a)

Thank you for your informative posts. Why would you not recommend a designer creatine like green magnitude? I have read, that the components used there (dicreatine malate) are better absorbed then creatine mono?!

I haven't looked into more info either about cycling creatine supps as I understood that creatine production by the body stops or is decreased if you supplement creatine over a longer period without stops.

[Mojoke]

Doctors measure creatinine levels in the blood to dtermine how well the kidneys are working. If your kidneys are not working well, creatinine, which is a waste product, tends to be high.

If you supplement with creatine, your creatinie levels can be higher. If you overdo with creatine, and you are eating a diet high in red meat, they can be very high. This does not damage your kidneys, but your kidneys are not going to remove all of the creatinine from your system.

If you have bloodwork done, and it shows high creatinine levels, your doctor is going to suspect kidney problems. Tell your doctor what you are doing as far as diet/supplementation go. Your doctor will probably still suggest further rests to verify kidney function. This all should not be construed as creatine causing any kidney damage.

Ray

Thanks Pastor, I was considering doing bloodwork before starting a creatine supp, to have these levels checked.
I also found that certain people don't feel much difference using creatine, as the levels in their muscles probably are already naturally high and in that case extra doses yield no extra benefit

[Brackneyc]

Thank you for your informative posts. Why would you not recommend a designer creatine like green magnitude? I have read, that the components used there (dicreatine malate) are better absorbed then creatine mono?!

Because regular old (re: cheaper) creatine is generally just as effective, for less money.

I would suggest the placebo affect is higher in the more expensive products however.

[pastorgbc]

Thanks Pastor, I was considering doing bloodwork before starting a creatine supp, to have these levels checked.
I also found that certain people don't feel much difference using creatine, as the levels in their muscles probably are already naturally high and in that case extra doses yield no extra benefit

I am not sure if blood work will let you know how "saturated" with creatine you are. The kidney function test measures creatinine. If it is over the safe threshold, it will show a discrepancy. If it is under the threshold, it will show normal. Since it is creatine is cheap, I would just try it and see if it makes any difference. If it does, money well spent. If it does not, then you haven't lost much.

Ray

[JOHN GARGANI]

The example the Dr. gave was: think of protein as bricks, creatine as the mortar holding the bricks, and the creatinine as the stuff disposed of after the bricklayer dresses the joint.

this is why I asked the OP whether he took the time to study the actual biochemistry and action of creatine and what it is, because without that, you start getting posts like this, which, to be kind to your Doctor, are fictitious.


comparing Creatine to mortar assumes that is a part and parcel of STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY of muscle tissue, which is again, totally false.....

Creatine is used in the Kreb's cycle, as part of the enzymatic pathway that liberates energy to the cells....it is used up in the process...period....gone.....which is why it needs to be replenished....

by taking Creatine supplementation, you slightly increase the ability of the body , on the cellular level, to release energy, which, then, theoretically, will give you more "OOMPH"

( how do you like THAT for tech talk! LOL) when doing a repetition.


in other words, the extra energy is there....but: it still has to be DONE: when one is training on creatine, you DO have a little extra in the tank, but you must still push yourself to do more.

It is what we call an ERGOGENIC AID....something that helps give you more energy....Trust me, you can feel just as lethargic before a workout even when you are on Creatine....it is not a wonder supplement, but again, it is an AID......

[WillBrink]

Thank you for your informative posts. Why would you not recommend a designer creatine like green magnitude? I have read, that the components used there (dicreatine malate) are better absorbed then creatine mono?!

I haven't looked into more info either about cycling creatine supps as I understood that creatine production by the body stops or is decreased if you supplement creatine over a longer period without stops.

If I had thought anything out there was worth using over CM (in the form of Creapure) I'd wouldn't have given the above answer. My thoughts on the other forms currently can be found:


The Creatine Graveyard

[tomnationwide]

If you're eating a lot of meat in your diet you really don't need creatine. If you eat lean and miss out on creatine rich meats then 5g a day should get you through.

It's not necessary to get your bloodwork done.

Make sure you hydrate and maybe toss in some bananas or high potassium enriched products.

I also find that eliminating caffeine prevents me cramping up.

[WillBrink]

I am not sure if blood work will let you know how "saturated" with creatine you are.

It will not.

[WBNATL]

If you use the supplement as instructed, in "my opinion" you'll be okay without blood work.
If you're looking to boost your energy levels, muscular strength and endurance, creatine will help. Another great benefit of using creatine supplements is that it increases testosterone levels.
I used several brands over the years. I remember the days when you had to load for 5 times a day for 5 days...but that stuff was potent back then. I noticed huge gains when I first started using it. There are many product in the supplement market...My suggestion is to find a product that is 100% stable, The Original 100% Stable PH-correct, no loading, no bloating, no cycling and tested for purity and banned substances.

[WillBrink]

If you use the supplement as instructed, in "my opinion" you'll be okay without blood work.
If you're looking to boost your energy levels, muscular strength and endurance, creatine will help. Another great benefit of using creatine supplements is that it increases testosterone levels.

Err what? Cite?

[ahawk01]

All depends on what you are going for and what supplements you are currently using.

Many preworkouts have creatine in them ala c4. Most people benifit from around 5 grams which = teaspoon of the monohydrate. You just have to check your other supplements. I will say this. I am considering something like celltech from muscletech with carbs and creatin after I'm done with cutting.

I am considering slowly adding creatine in the mix.
Should you have some bloodwork done before to check if your liver/kidneys are good enough and whether your muscles aren't saturated already naturally?

Regarding the product itself? Which are reliable products?
Should you rather go with:
a) a pure creatine monohydrate such as creapure
b) a designer creatine such as green magnitude by CL
c) a post work out supp containing besides creatine also carbs and bcaa and stuff?

[JOHN GARGANI]

this is why I asked the OP whether he took the time to study the actual biochemistry and action of creatine and what it is, because without that, you start getting posts like this, which, to be kind to your Doctor, are fictitious.


comparing Creatine to mortar assumes that is a part and parcel of STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY of muscle tissue, which is again, totally false.....

Creatine is used in the Kreb's cycle, as part of the enzymatic pathway that liberates energy to the cells....it is used up in the process...period....gone.....which is why it needs to be replenished....

by taking Creatine supplementation, you slightly increase the ability of the body , on the cellular level, to release energy, which, then, theoretically, will give you more "OOMPH"

( how do you like THAT for tech talk! LOL) when doing a repetition.


in other words, the extra energy is there....but: it still has to be DONE: when one is training on creatine, you DO have a little extra in the tank, but you must still push yourself to do more.

It is what we call an ERGOGENIC AID....something that helps give you more energy....Trust me, you can feel just as lethargic before a workout even when you are on Creatine....it is not a wonder supplement, but again, it is an AID......

my reply was ignored by the OP, but more surprisingly, by Mr. Brink....

why continue to suggest "types" or "kinds" when the OP has shown no interest in understanding what it even is, or does????????????????

I don't think he understands this....you could always have a much better dialogue about Creatine when people understand what it is and does....and far too many don't.....

[Mojoke]

my reply was ignored by the OP, but more surprisingly, by Mr. Brink....

why continue to suggest "types" or "kinds" when the OP has shown no interest in understanding what it even is, or does????????????????

I don't think he understands this....you could always have a much better dialogue about Creatine when people understand what it is and does....and far too many don't.....

Thank you very much for you response John. I have read your post, I understand the benefits and your conclusions but I am not a chemist, so I don't understand the technicals.
However you say, that the body uses the creatine, and thus, it should be added over and over again, I have also read that natural creatine production will be depressed when you supplement creatine. Thus, the need for cycling.
This makes me wonder if it is a health enhancer or a performance enhancer. I think it is the latter, and so I'm still debating if I should take it or not. Please explain more if I see things wrongly

[ahawk01]

Thank you very much for you response John. I have read your post, I understand the benefits and your conclusions but I am not a chemist, so I don't understand the technicals.
However you say, that the body uses the creatine, and thus, it should be added over and over again, I have also read that natural creatine production will be depressed when you supplement creatine. Thus, the need for cycling.
This makes me wonder if it is a health enhancer or a performance enhancer. I think it is the latter, and so I'm still debating if I should take it or not. Please explain more if I see things wrongly

If you are taking under one teaspoon a day no cycling in required..

[WillBrink]

my reply was ignored by the OP, but more surprisingly, by Mr. Brink....

Did you require a response from me? I supplied the source for the OP and others here go get educated on creatine to get a better understanding of it and supplied the article to do so:

post # 8: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1240939253

If he and others chose to ignore that, well, you can lead a horse to water and all that...and I attempted to correct several posters here giving out BS advice on creatine, but there's only so much time inn the day bro.

[WillBrink]

Thank you very much for you response John. I have read your post, I understand the benefits and your conclusions but I am not a chemist, so I don't understand the technicals.

I supplied the link for you to learn pretty much A-Z on creatine to make informed decisions on that supplement.

[ahawk01]

Did you require a response from me? I supplied the source for the OP and others here go get educated on creatine to get a better understanding of it and supplied the article to do so:

post # 8: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1240939253

If he and others chose to ignore that, well, you can lead a horse to water and all that...and I attempted to correct several posters here giving out BS advice on creatine, but there's only so much time inn the day bro.

Everyone appreciates good advice. The issue I had is your site is heavily geared toward sales. I didn't even read the article because of this.