Both upper and lower back rounding on deadlift

[killemall1983]

Now, first off,
I am by no means a new lifter. I have been lifting since i was 12, deadlifting and squatting since 14.
The thing is, i lifted hard all through highschool with pretty good form, and competing in powerlifting meets.
I took off 6 years after highschool from squatting and deadlifting.
I have been deadlifting again for about 5 months. I am still pretty strong on it, but my form is horrible compared to what it used to be.
No matter what position i get it, even WITHOUT weight, my upper and lower back are extremely rounded. If i retract my shoulders a ton to compesnte for upper back, then i cant even reach the bar.
My hips also keep shooting up way too early, even with keeping my hip flexors tight.
Any suggestions?
I know i can get over 500 with better form.

[KeepOnShruggin]

Do you have any videos?

[killemall1983]

Do you have any videos?

I only have 2, but they are from the front, so you cant tell. I will take on later in the week. I feel pretty lame posting a video of me with such horrible technique being as experienced as i am.

[hsilman]

If you can manage to reach the toilet to **** and bend over to tie your shoe laces, you can probably deadlift with proper form. I think it has the lowest flexibility/mobility requirements of the big three.

I'm guessing there are two or maybe three culprits:

1) loss of kinesthetic awareness. Six years later, you don't know what it feels like to have a properly extended thoracic or lumbar spine when setting up and pulling a deadlift.

2) Your setup. Do you have a setup routine that you follow perfectly every time? I like Rippetoe's and it works great for me, but maybe you have a different one? Either way, you need to be 100% consistent.

possibly 3) you are ego lifting and you need to give your body time to adapt by pulling lighter weights and building back up. This is probably confounded with issue #1 if it is a problem.

A proper form check including your setup and pull from a side or 3/4 rear view will probably help pinpoint the issue(s). Let's start there, as suggested.

[killemall1983]

Thanks for the reply.
I dont have a routine i follow exactly the same every time. But that has never been a problem, and i never follow the same routine for any lifts or workout.
I am definitely not ego lifting. I go down to less than 40% of my max for working sets sometimes just to get the feel of it better, and my technique is no better or worse with light weight. Even with no weight i cant seem to do it correctly.

[kennycroxdale]

Now, first off,
I am by no means a new lifter. I have been lifting since i was 12, deadlifting and squatting since 14.
The thing is, i lifted hard all through highschool with pretty good form, and competing in powerlifting meets.
I took off 6 years after highschool from squatting and deadlifting.
I have been deadlifting again for about 5 months. I am still pretty strong on it, but my form is horrible compared to what it used to be.
No matter what position i get it, even WITHOUT weight, my upper and lower back are extremely rounded. If i retract my shoulders a ton to compesnte for upper back, then i cant even reach the bar.
My hips also keep shooting up way too early, even with keeping my hip flexors tight.
Any suggestions?
I know i can get over 500 with better form.

It is hard to provide much information without seeing what you are doing.

With that said, some rounding of the upper back is acceptable and even recommended for Conventional Deadlifters.

The Sumo Deadlift is a completely different animal.

"A CASE FOR ROUND BACK DEADLIFTS"
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_..._back_deadlift

This is a great article that explain why upper back round occurs and why it is okay.

Minor lower back rounding can be fine.

LOW BACK DRIVE OFF THE FLOOR

Strong Conventional Deadlifters break the weight off the floor.

MISINFORAMTION

The "Push the floor away from you with you legs" for Conventional Deadlifters is incorrect. Yet, this misconception won't go away.

RESEARCH

Research and empirical data by Dr. Tom McLaughlin (former powerlifter with a PhD in Exercise Biomechanics) showed how the lower back breaks the weight off the floor...NOT THE LEGS.

ONE TWO PUNCH "BANG-BANG"

The back initiates the drive off the floor with the legs immediately kicking in right behind.

Think of it like a "One Two Punch" in boxing. You lead with a jab and then immediately follow with the cross punch..."Bang-bang".

THE DEADLIFT: A SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS
http://www.nhomag.com/99_v1_n2_5.asp

An analysis of the muscle involvement during the Conventional deadlift reveals that there are three distinct phases of muscle involvement during the lift. The first phase occurs as the athlete tries to initially move the bar from the floor. Contrary to popular opinion, the initial drive is done primarily by the back (erector spinae) and not the legs. If the athlete tries to move the weight using their legs instead of their back the result is a premature straightening of the legs and an unwanted curvature of the back.

Evidence to support this theory is found in the research done by Dr. Tom McLaughlin.1 McLaughlin compared the deadlift styles of top powerlifters at the time such as Jon Kuc, Bill Kazmaier, and Vince Anello. His results showed that all the lifters had similar styles exhibiting back extension at the beginning of the lift. McLaughlin felt that the reason for this is because the total force of the legs is inadequate at the start of the deadlift for most individuals.

Konstantin Konstantinovs 430 kg Deadlift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pH8XlB5HV4

Benedikt Magnusson1015 lb Deadlift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCVZ80N-2Ns

Andy Bolton 1,008lb World Record Deadlift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNvONtw-94g

SUMMARY

There definitely good and bad rounding. It hard to state if you rounding is good or bad without seeing it.

Kenny Croxdale

I guarantee it will Never work if you Never try it!

[HamburgerTrain]

x2 on upper back round. Starting the lift with a relaxed upper back greatly improves lockout strength.

The rest is pretty simple biomechanics. The lumbar vertebrae only have 3 degrees of ROM in every direction. Keep it neutral or die.