12 weeks out....... From nowhere?....

[induced_drag]

Funny... .I have been back at this lifting thing for a while now. I get asked all the time...."what are your goals?"..etc. I have to go on with this long explanation of what it is I want. I say I am not a "bodybuilder" nor a "powerlifter".....and go on from there that I want a nice solid muscular look coupled with the ability to move some heavy stuff. "70's big" gets used a lot to describe that nice full muscular look of guys from the 70's without the shred that is so popular in bodybuilding today.

I was thinking today, I have a much easier way of describing what it is I want for a 'goal' physique. I want to be "12 weeks out". But I want to be this year round. (or not far from it).

No real desires to get much leaner as my strength and joints would pay the toll for that one. I am still moving decent weights at a reasonably lean state. Still well exceeding the "4,5,6" tri-fecta for a 200lb guy is not a bad thing at any composition and pretty rare at 40+ (400+bench, 500+ squat and 600+ dead). Doing it while maintaining a reasonably lean state seems to be even less common. I take a lot of pride in that as it has been a lot of hard work getting here. While true I know I could move considerably more letting my weight drift up along with bodyfat, ....there in lies the balance point where I seek. I want to do it all at "12 weeks out".

I have gotten where I can maintain this with almost no extraordinary effort. It has become second nature to me. Spending over 2 years planning and tracking every macro down to 3-5 grams rubs off on you . This crap is easy now. Losing and gaining happen with just small changes. (a little more or less oatmeal in the morning, 1 cup or 2 cups of rice with lunch, am I having icecream tonight, 2 pieces of pizza or 5, really... that is all it is. I dont feel deprived in any way at all. The work to get here initially was a long tough road. But the battle is worth it when it just becomes a habit.

This is really a shout out to all those guys looking to change their lifestyles. It can seem overwhelming at first. Information overload. It seems unsustainable and impossible. Dont give up. See it through. This only gets easier. Not only that, I have seen as have others that fat distributions can change dramatically over time. I now have a nice buffer and I pick up VAT long before I lose my abs or see a skinfold increase. Plenty of time to dial cals back and never have to lose a good midsection. Hell...VAT is your friend!

Seems like this in anything. The first part of the journey is often the hardest. People look at you funny. Ask questions like "is all this really necessary?". Thats because you dont look the part right now. They dont get it. When you get here.....hell...no one questions you. If I pass on a beer at a friends house....they dont gives me a hard time. If I only take a 1/2 piece of cake....I dont get looked at funny. It gets easier guys.... stick it out it is worth it.


So...this is it. Next time someone asks.... I am going to say I'm "12 weeks out,.... from nothing"

[Tmax55]

Nice, very inspiring. Someday I'd like to move those weights.

[Plateauplower]

Good stuff, I have no desire to get into single digit body fat personally if I can stay at 10 lean and 15 max bulking I will be happy. I have never had success getting as lean as some of the guys on here I would rather spend as little time in a deficit as possible. I saw your pics from 2011 when you cut down and was pretty impressed with the changes. If you wouldn't mind could you check out my workout/diet journal and offer any suggestions linked in my sig currently middle of first page on the 035 journals. Is that similar plan to what you followed. I'm not very knowledgable about de-loading, wondering if I should maybe throttle back for a week or so soon I'm on week 14. My pound ages are all accurate, food is measured in servings weighed to the gram. Appreciate any insight any of you guys that have a naturally thicker blocky build could give me really. The program I'm running is kind of a Casey Butt type three day per week full body program. I don't think I'm periodizing it correctly because even on the light days I try to push pretty hard but don't fight as much for the last rep. Any pointers or input would be greatly appreciated.

[MiklaDfar]

Thanks for posting this! Even only 5 weeks in, it is starting to get easier. I think the part where I am able to start figuring out what I can eat, leaving the scale on the kitchen counter, knowing what foods to eat to balance the macros for the day, etc. was the initial challenge. Working out is fun, but the nutrition part is the toughest, at least for me. But every day it gets easier as I realize I can eat good food without pigging out and counting calories/macros is relatively easy. I used to eat ice cream 3 or 4 nights a week, I have not even had a craving for it in weeks. Even counting calories I have turned into a game on some days... I'll try to figure out early evening what exactly I need to eat to perfectly hit my macros... though some days I am short and other days I am a little over.

Looking forward to the days when I can just maintain and look good!
Thanks again!

[cmoore]

Funny..."70's big"

70's Big beats my regular "OMG! Somebody get that guy a sandwich STAT!"

Props and Support.

[tkdnj]

"I have gotten where I can maintain this with almost no extraordinary effort. It has become second nature to me. Spending over 2 years planning and tracking every macro down to 3-5 grams rubs off on you . This crap is easy now. Losing and gaining happen with just small changes. (a little more or less oatmeal in the morning, 1 cup or 2 cups of rice with lunch, am I having icecream tonight, 2 pieces of pizza or 5, really... that is all it is. I dont feel deprived in any way at all. The work to get here initially was a long tough road. But the battle is worth it when it just becomes a habit."

does that mean now you just "hang around" maintenance calories year round? Or are you saying you go on bulk and cutting periods without analyzing down to the calorie?

BTW - you look awesome

[mcbourque]

70's big - I love that!!! Pretty sure that's the preferred look from a female perspective

And you do look awesome!

Thanks for posting that. It's really hard when you get the funny looks from your family when you weight a small piece of cheese and they're like "really? Why bother?"
So thanks for reminding us it get will easier when we finally get to look the part.

[postman123]

Thanks for another well informed and encouraging post. Too bad I'm still on spread.

[johnmackay]

I really appreciate a post like this! Over the last year, there have been many moments of self doubt, and "why am I doing this - its too hard"...but a lot of those moments were before I learned about proper nutrition. Post like this are inspiring to a guy like this that feels like he is trudging slowly at times toward a goal he is not sure he will make.

Well, I see my second major goal in site now (somewhat anyway - still have a way to go, but it feels downhill right now) and part of that goal was to get very lean and hope that my fat distribution would change - I see from your post that my theory on that is possible and by initially getting rid of it all, when I do start to properly gain, fat might not all end up on the waist again

After I am done with my current major goal, the next is very similar to yours and I love your description of it. I am tired of people asking me where I crossfit, or the latest one I was asked...am I training for an mma fight (not sure where that one came from other than some people know I used to kickbox some a long time ago...20 years ago).

Anyway, thanks for the post!

[Do_Somethin]

Please never make fun of my music...

[hmmmm16417]

Seems like this in anything. The first part of the journey is often the hardest. People look at you funny. Ask questions like "is all this really necessary?". Thats because you dont look the part right now. They dont get it. When you get here.....hell...no one questions you. If I pass on a beer at a friends house....they dont gives me a hard time. If I only take a 1/2 piece of cake....I dont get looked at funny. It gets easier guys.... stick it out it is worth it.


So...this is it. Next time someone asks.... I am going to say I'm "12 weeks out,.... from nothing"

great words of inspiration! I am far from where you are, but watching your video I was like "that's the physique I want"....then I look at your stats and see 5'9" @ 199 lb. no offense, but I want that physique on my 6'1" frame LOL so I'm guessing that would probably put me in the 230-240 lb range? either way, mirrin the build!!!! i'm going to have to stalk your journal (assuming you have one) to get more ideas for back and leg workout.

great job!

[SteveWright1]

summed up perfectly in my opinion Induced Drag

I am not 100% sure what my destination is, but I am just enjoying the journey

[Jbizzlechizzle]

Who really needs to cut if not for a competition or their own ego? I'm in the same boat as you and like being 12 weeks out (love this!). I'm certainly not as diligent about counting calories our macros, but I know what my body needs and have made great strides in the gym over the past 18 months.

Great post and great physique you're rocking. Rep'd!

[MultiBeast]

Very inspiring, I_D. It doesn't have to make sense to anyone else, and there doesn't have to be a clear cut destination. Hell, goals change over time. You do it because it's just what you do. Period.

[Robin13]

If I can look as good as you at 12 weeks out great post needed a laugh today! Hittin ya with some reps......

[bradandblake]

Looking stacked man. Do you really only weigh 199? If so WTF?

[induced_drag]

Nice, very inspiring. Someday I'd like to move those weights.

Weight is a relative thing for sure. There is also a highly structural component as well as genetic. I am lucky in that regard, but the struggle for us all is the same. Trying to increase beyond what our bodies want to give is battle we all face.....regardless if it is 225 or 425.

If you wouldn't mind could you check out my workout/diet journal and offer any suggestions linked in my sig currently middle of first page on the 035 journals....

Sure. I'll check it out.

Thanks for posting this! Even only 5 weeks in, it is starting to get easier.
Looking forward to the days when I can just maintain and look good!
Thanks again!

It really does get easier....but it is all application. Dont get me wrong, I am not talking about 'coasting'. The struggle to improve is still there, but it is nice to be doing it from a platform you are pretty satisfied with as well.

70's Big beats my regular "OMG! Somebody get that guy a sandwich STAT!"

Props and Support.

That is funny! To be honest man....if I saw you, I would gawk too!!! You are one of a kind man. I want to say that from what I know of dieting and nutrition, that I know it is possible to do what you do. Some may take away from your efforts and just label you a genetic freak. While you do most likely have favorable genes, there is NO denying the hard work and dedication that goes in to what you do. I have never seen anyone apply themselves in the manner in which you do. Lot of people do it for 10-12 weeks for a contest...etc. But, you have made it your lifestyle. Much much respect and awe really......

does that mean now you just "hang around" maintenance calories year round? Or are you saying you go on bulk and cutting periods without analyzing down to the calorie?

I still do periods of caloric surplus and deficit. Just not as regimented. I really eat to what my training goals are. When I am training to move more weight, I keep my cals up. When I get to the point where I smooth out a little too much, I dial back. For years I have also practiced 'carb cycling', and I apply it even more now. (eating more carbs on training days). I play with this more and more by 'feel' and believe that it works well for me.

I am realistic in knowing that there is not a lot of potential for growth left in me. (with my current lifestyle choices) In the past 2 years, I have netted less then 10lbs. But I can still see changes. It is also one of the things that draws me more and more towards powerlifting. It is easier to see the fruits of your labor there and much more tangible.

70's big - I love that!!! Pretty sure that's the preferred look from a female perspective

And you do look awesome!

Thanks for posting that. It's really hard when you get the funny looks from your family when you weight a small piece of cheese and they're like "really? Why bother?"
So thanks for reminding us it get will easier when we finally get to look the part.

I did not coin the phrase, but I will use it . Funny on the female perspective. I have found it to be a double edged sword. Some women love it, and some dont. My wife in particular is not a big fan of the muscularity. While that sucks....in the end this is a pursuit I do for me and my goals are more then just 'looking' a certain way. The muscles have come along from my desire to train like I do and are a byproduct of that. I have never understood guy that just want to be 'big' but dont care about strength. (to each their own though....)

Thanks for another well informed and encouraging post. Too bad I'm still on spread.

No prob! Thanks man.

I see from your post that my theory on that is possible and by initially getting rid of it all, when I do start to properly gain, fat might not all end up on the waist again

!

I learned the inital idea from some guys here that compete. There is a guy "Boflecks" who keeps meticulous records. He was one that first pointed it out to me. I then observed it in my own body.

There is an old saying that you hear a lot..... "last to lose, first to gain". If you think deeper into this, it does not make sense. "Last to lose" is generally because the fat is less biologically active (poor blood flow...etc). A great example of this is Sub-q abdominal fat or leg fat in men. If this fat has such poor blood flow and is less active, how the hell will it be the first to come back?... It does not make sense.

The first to come back SHOULD be the most active fat tissue. This is generally VAT. (great blood flow..etc). I have seen this as have many guys who have thinned out their midsection skinfolds. I can gain over 2" in my waist without changing my abdominal skinfolds at all in a surplus. The VAT will come back first and build the waist out.

So I say "first to lose, first to come back!".

Talk to guys that have done contest prep...and see how their fat came back. (there are a few guys who have experienced differently, but the majority seem to happen as above)

Please never make fun of my music...

Radio..... I usually stream Pandora from my phone, but I was taking a vid with it!!!

great words of inspiration! I am far from where you are, but watching your video I was like "that's the physique I want"....then I look at your stats and see 5'9" @ 199 lb. no offense, but I want that physique on my 6'1" frame LOL so I'm guessing that would probably put me in the 230-240 lb range? either way, mirrin the build!!!! i'm going to have to stalk your journal (assuming you have one) to get more ideas for back and leg workout.

great job!

Thanks man. Not sure what the weight at 6'1 would be. My current weight is 206 (which I have not updated as it is always moving up and down)

I no longer run a journal. It just got to be too hard to keep up with. I spend too much time on the computer as it is!

summed up perfectly in my opinion Induced Drag

I am not 100% sure what my destination is, but I am just enjoying the journey

Good deal. I have always had goals, but they are not big global type ones, but rather shorter ones that work towards for 2-3 months and then re- access. I believe that setting proper goals is one of the most important things in progress on anything.

Who really needs to cut if not for a competition or their own ego? I'm in the same boat as you and like being 12 weeks out (love this!). I'm certainly not as diligent about counting calories our macros, but I know what my body needs and have made great strides in the gym over the past 18 months.

Great post and great physique you're rocking. Rep'd!

Very inspiring, I_D. It doesn't have to make sense to anyone else, and there doesn't have to be a clear cut destination. Hell, goals change over time. You do it because it's just what you do. Period.

If I can look as good as you at 12 weeks out great post needed a laugh today! Hittin ya with some reps......

Thanks guys....

Looking stacked man. Do you really only weigh 199? If so WTF?

No I am 206ish right now. (morning weight) My weight is always going up and down depending upon my diet mode. It is not hard for me to swing anywhere between 198 and 212 within a few weeks. Scale weight is a very deceiving thing and I pay almost zero attention to it anymore. (except looked at over long periods of time). The less fat you carry and more muscle, the more you swing in weight due to simple glycogen loading. Give me 5 days and I can drop 10lbs and then gain it all back.

My scale weight over the past 2 years has not moved much but the changes in density really stand out for me. Despite similar skinfolds, and measurements, your 'look' really starts to change and the appearance of the density of the muscle belly really stands out. Probably not something you can measure, but it can be seen. Even though I have seen less then a 5lb increase in mass over the past year, I feel the look of my overally physique has made some substantial leaps.

At this point, it is down to the small things....

[ChickenPauk]

Nice perspective. Love the 70's reference and the '12 weeks out'. I'm gonna have to adapt it a bit, though. Guess, I'm going with "6-12 months out" or something more appropriate

[bradandblake]

No I am 206ish right now. (morning weight) My weight is always going up and down depending upon my diet mode. It is not hard for me to swing anywhere between 198 and 212 within a few weeks. Scale weight is a very deceiving thing and I pay almost zero attention to it anymore. (except looked at over long periods of time). The less fat you carry and more muscle, the more you swing in weight due to simple glycogen loading. Give me 5 days and I can drop 10lbs and then gain it all back.

My scale weight over the past 2 years has not moved much but the changes in density really stand out for me. Despite similar skinfolds, and measurements, your 'look' really starts to change and the appearance of the density of the muscle belly really stands out. Probably not something you can measure, but it can be seen. Even though I have seen less then a 5lb increase in mass over the past year, I feel the look of my overally physique has made some substantial leaps.

At this point, it is down to the small things....

Well, you look much larger up top than I do and I weigh 195.

What are you measurements if you don't mind me asking?

Mine:

waist 33-34"
shoulders 51"
chest 46"
forearms 13"
arms 15.5"
hips 40"
thighs 25"
calves 17"

You look like you'd have a couple inches on me in everything, at least up top.

[induced_drag]

Well, you look much larger up top than I do and I weigh 195.

What are you measurements if you don't mind me asking?

Mine:

waist 33-34"
shoulders 51"
chest 46"
forearms 13"
arms 15.5"
hips 40"
thighs 25"
calves 17"

You look like you'd have a couple inches on me in everything, at least up top.

Not sure...but we are similar except in the arms. (and I wish I had good calves )

IIRC
My chest is 48ish
Waist is 32-33 (I am wide wasited though from the front)
My arms are 18.5-19 pumped
As big as my arms are, my shoulders actually overpower my arms visually. (not sure of the measurement)
My back /arms and shoulders dominate my physique. Lot of heavy pushing and pulling over the years.

Hips 39-40
Thighs are 25...etc
Calves 15


If you are 195 @ 5'8 and that lean, I am sure you have one hell of a physique man. Nothing to sneeze at at all! Maybe take some progress pics and you will be surprised at how you look. I started shooting little progress vids. It was really eye opening as I got to see what I really look like (especially my back..etc). Do it, you might be surprised at what you look like.

[bradandblake]

Not sure...but we are similar except in the arms. (and I wish I had good calves )

IIRC
My chest is 48ish
Waist is 32-33 (I am wide wasited though from the front)
My arms are 18.5-19 pumped
As big as my arms are, my shoulders actually overpower my arms visually. (not sure of the measurement)
My back /arms and shoulders dominate my physique. Lot of heavy pushing and pulling over the years.

Hips 39-40
Thighs are 25...etc
Calves 15


If you are 195 @ 5'8 and that lean, I am sure you have one hell of a physique man. Nothing to sneeze at at all! Maybe take some progress pics and you will be surprised at how you look. I started shooting little progress vids. It was really eye opening as I got to see what I really look like (especially my back..etc). Do it, you might be surprised at what you look like.

Thanks man. You probably got the 10 pounds on me up top then. Similar build, I just need to catch up! I've only been seriously doing this for 1.5-2 yrs. I have progress pics. LOL. Look!

[reddog140]

Good attitude and great perspective. And you look alot better than many guys who compete that are 12 weeks out, hell better than quite a few I've seen 8 weeks out, and alot less attitude. I must say if that is your pool in the OV35 thread, that thing looks awesome. Keep it up, your representing us over 40 crowd well .

[induced_drag]

Thanks man. You probably got the 10 pounds on me up top then. Similar build, I just need to catch up! I've only been seriously doing this for 1.5-2 yrs. I have progress pics. LOL. Look!

Really nice work man! You have the outer chest insertions I would kill for (blessed with that nice outer sweep).

Shoot man, that is a great transformation for sure. You have a lot to be proud of. Hard to tell from the pics, but what you might be seeing as why I look 'big' is my back development. Your chest is more developed then mine I would say, but the upperbody is really set upon the back. It is what sets your posture for your arms...etc. I would even say from the side it's overall thickness is noticed even more then the chest. It just takes up so much real estate.

Your build is great, but looks like your focus may need to shift to your back area to really round out your physique.

Take some better pics and see what you think. I just use the timer feature and snap pics of my back to see progress.

Regardless...great build.

[bradandblake]

Really nice work man! You have the outer chest insertions I would kill for (blessed with that nice outer sweep).

Shoot man, that is a great transformation for sure. You have a lot to be proud of. Hard to tell from the pics, but what you might be seeing as why I look 'big' is my back development. Your chest is more developed then mine I would say, but the upperbody is really set upon the back. It is what sets your posture for your arms...etc. I would even say from the side it's overall thickness is noticed even more then the chest. It just takes up so much real estate.

Your build is great, but looks like your focus may need to shift to your back area to really round out your physique.

Take some better pics and see what you think. I just use the timer feature and snap pics of my back to see progress.

Regardless...great build.

Thanks man. I really appreciate it.

I am trying to focus on my back now. Strangely, I'm making quite a bit in strength progress in my lats, low to mid back, but the muscle isn't growing from what I can tell. Its quite annoying. I'll take some back pics just to get an idea for me to compare to going forward. Same with my biceps.

Maybe I just need to eat more. :/

[induced_drag]

Good attitude and great perspective. And you look alot better than many guys who compete that are 12 weeks out, hell better than quite a few I've seen 8 weeks out, and alot less attitude. I must say if that is your pool in the OV35 thread, that thing looks awesome. Keep it up, your representing us over 40 crowd well .

Thanks man. Means a lot coming from a competitor such as your self. (I have seen your prep pics...awesome!)

Yep, that is my pool. I did it myself. I cant wait for summer for sure. If you have never seen it, you would like the brick wood fired pizza oven I built next to it! nothing like pizza and a few beers around the pool for summer!

I have never competed and would never take away from what you guys do. The dedication it takes to go through the prep process is awesome and I know enough that I respect it a ton.

I have found, after carrying an extra 20lbs for years, that staying where I am now is pretty easy. I can also do it with reasonable strength. While not as strong as I could be if I drifted up, for me it is a good balance.

The vid I shot yesterday I was not planning on posting, but this vid below gives a better idea of where I stay composition wise. This is about as 'heavy' as I let myself get. In this vid from a month ago, I was just coming off surplus so I am thick through my waist. Notice was I was saying about sub -q vs VAT. In this vid, I have a good amount of VAT but my skinfolds are not changed all that much. So I have a 'thick' waist from the side, but still have abs. I will drop about 10lbs from where I am here to look 'fit' for summer.

[Plateauplower]

Your a stand up dude ID, in fact before I joined the site I enjoyed reading a lot of these threads frequently and appreciate the insight and motivation from many of the contributors that have obviously been in the trenches for some years. Your accomplishments and many others on here are inspirational for everyone who is making a comeback or starting from scratch. It is appreciated.

[tomnationwide]

I'm almost there. Good work

[Plateauplower]

70's Big beats my regular "OMG! Somebody get that guy a sandwich STAT!"

Props and Support.

Props man. I couldn't tell if your profile pic was real or medical prop to learn musculature, then I saw the one arm pull up vid. Amazing.

[mirroroferised]

Your legs are insane ID!!

One day....


Another good thread anyway. Have reread op a couple times. It makes a LOT of sense.

[johnmackay]

I learned the inital idea from some guys here that compete. There is a guy "Boflecks" who keeps meticulous records. He was one that first pointed it out to me. I then observed it in my own body.

There is an old saying that you hear a lot..... "last to lose, first to gain". If you think deeper into this, it does not make sense. "Last to lose" is generally because the fat is less biologically active (poor blood flow...etc). A great example of this is Sub-q abdominal fat or leg fat in men. If this fat has such poor blood flow and is less active, how the hell will it be the first to come back?... It does not make sense.

The first to come back SHOULD be the most active fat tissue. This is generally VAT. (great blood flow..etc). I have seen this as have many guys who have thinned out their midsection skinfolds. I can gain over 2" in my waist without changing my abdominal skinfolds at all in a surplus. The VAT will come back first and build the waist out.

So I say "first to lose, first to come back!".

Talk to guys that have done contest prep...and see how their fat came back. (there are a few guys who have experienced differently, but the majority seem to happen as above)

Thank you so much for that info! This is exactly the reason I am trying to cut right now and I my plan is to try to "wipe the slate clean" with my fat, I have some momentum now and plan on cutting down to around the 8% mark - I am sure I am under 10% now (need to update my avatar again as I am already a good bit leaner now), but wont test for that again for another few weeks. Once I am down there I plan on doing a similar build style to yours, but I am hoping to stay a good bit under the 15% mark at all times (I am thinking 12ish) - don't know if that is realistic but I think it may be as long as I keep tabs on my macros like I have been. I am guessing that if I start building with a low BF% I can do a fairly real build/cut cycle in that 9-13 area and with the hopeful BF redistribution I can stay in a place where I never feel weird about taking my shirt off again...And I can really start working on some of my strength goals without getting or feeling fat again...REALLY looking forward to working on strength as it has been so difficult to keep pushing those goals off because of my extremely long deficit.

I am also finding that I may need to start playing with carb cycling as you have mentioned; since I have been in deficit for so long and my fat stores are getting used up I am finding some dizziness with more intense workouts recently (this week) and that is definitely not a good or safe thing - I got some reading to do on this for sure and plan to start experimenting with it this week