Misc. Med Thread Vol. 2 redeux

[low blow]

hey brahs i heard using onenote and anki is all u need for med school? can anyone chime in?

That's essentially what I do and it's been going a lot better then what I was doing before. Forces you to review material daily, improves long term retention etc.. it's also good for my medical school since we get progressively tested every year - anything from day 1 is fair game for testing.

Anki is good for memorization but not for understanding. Rule #1 = don't memorize what you don't understand

Onenote (for organization) → Lecture notes (annotate) → "Understanding" Notes (essentially I write notes to explain concepts, something like physiology/pathology this is big, less so in microbiology/pharm) → Anki cards.

You're right... piddling is the right word for the measly sh*t I've done since graduating.
When I talked to the admissions director, he said that I have a great GPA, MCAT, research is absolutely stellar, but am lackluster in clinical experience and could possibly do more non-medical volunteering. Obviously food bank and volunteering at the hospital addresses my weaknesses... but now I'm wondering if that's not substantial enough to improve my application.

I'll definitely look into doing more volunteering at the hospital on Sundays, my other day off, and go from there.

You also bring up a good point about turning to medicine because I'm unhappy with X/Y/Z... definitely not the best way to word things.

Feel bad for you Ameribrah's that have to do hours upon hours of volunteering. Should just be GPA / MCAT / Interview.

[Shortofdaybreak]

You're right... piddling is the right word for the measly sh*t I've done since graduating.
When I talked to the admissions director, he said that I have a great GPA, MCAT, research is absolutely stellar, but am lackluster in clinical experience and could possibly do more non-medical volunteering. Obviously food bank and volunteering at the hospital addresses my weaknesses... but now I'm wondering if that's not substantial enough to improve my application.

I'll definitely look into doing more volunteering at the hospital on Sundays, my other day off, and go from there.

You also bring up a good point about turning to medicine because I'm unhappy with X/Y/Z... definitely not the best way to word things.

I don't know anyone that thinks that volunteering at a hospital (Candy Stripers don't do anything clinically accept walk papers from the admissions desk to the back, or fetch wheel chairs that rolled out to the parking lot) or working at a food bank is considered clinical experience. Be honest with yourself here. They're steps in the right direction, but you really shouldn't settle for anything less than shadowing as "clinical" experience, and even then, I think shadowing is a really poor example of "clinical experience" because you're not doing anything except hiding in the corner.

If you can get a job doing something (Scribe), or even as an MA or a transporter...you'd get a bit more experience clinically and learn how a hospital works.

Feel bad for you Ameribrah's that have to do hours upon hours of volunteering. Should just be GPA / MCAT / Interview.

I'm inclined to disagree.


There are too many people who can destroy the MCAT, get a great GPA, and recycle canned answers in an interview. We all go to school with some amazing people, I'm sure, but I also know that there are people out there who have virtually zero life experience and have completely poor interaction skills.

[ViktorFrankl]

I'm inclined to disagree.


There are too many people who can destroy the MCAT, get a great GPA, and recycle canned answers in an interview. We all go to school with some amazing people, I'm sure, but I also know that there are people out there who have virtually zero life experience and have completely poor interaction skills.

^also my pov. Even as it is, med admissions is overly focused on stats. Makes you end up with ASD radiologists, God complex surgeons who think they can out read said radiologists, people who just keep pursuing more and more board certifications because it strokes their ego, surgeons who can't get along with their gyn colleagues, etc. Should find the GPA and mcat at which there are sharply diminishing returns on med school performance, set it as a cut off for consideration, then have considerably less weight placed on increasing performance above those cutoffs

[santal0l]

^also my pov. Even as it is, med admissions is overly focused on stats. Makes you end up with ASD radiologists, God complex surgeons who think they can out read said radiologists, people who just keep pursuing more and more board certifications because it strokes their ego, surgeons who can't get along with their gyn colleagues, etc. Should find the GPA and mcat at which there are sharply diminishing returns on med school performance, set it as a cut off for consideration, then have considerably less weight placed on increasing performance above those cutoffs

[Synapsin]

^also my pov. Even as it is, med admissions is overly focused on stats. Makes you end up with ASD radiologists, God complex surgeons who think they can out read said radiologists, people who just keep pursuing more and more board certifications because it strokes their ego, surgeons who can't get along with their gyn colleagues, etc. Should find the GPA and mcat at which there are sharply diminishing returns on med school performance, set it as a cut off for consideration, then have considerably less weight placed on increasing performance above those cutoffs

lmfao, best post ever in this thread

[Flapjacko]

^also my pov. Even as it is, med admissions is overly focused on stats. Makes you end up with ASD radiologists, God complex surgeons who think they can out read said radiologists, people who just keep pursuing more and more board certifications because it strokes their ego, surgeons who can't get along with their gyn colleagues, etc. Should find the GPA and mcat at which there are sharply diminishing returns on med school performance, set it as a cut off for consideration, then have considerably less weight placed on increasing performance above those cutoffs

Don't those people get weeded out in clinicals and residency. I got this guy thats totally aspie and I was pissed off because the chief resident let him go home early one day. But later found out he let him go home because he just couldn't stand him and wanted peace.

[ViktorFrankl]

Don't those people get weeded out in clinicals and residency. I got this guy thats totally aspie and I was pissed off because the chief resident let him go home early one day. But later found out he let him go home because he just couldn't stand him and wanted peace.

Attrition from us schools and residency is very low, and probably a small portion of that attrition is compulsory for personality issues. Med schools and residencies are notoriously lenient about not expelling / firing

[Kaduceus]

^also my pov. Even as it is, med admissions is overly focused on stats. Makes you end up with ASD radiologists, God complex surgeons who think they can out read said radiologists, people who just keep pursuing more and more board certifications because it strokes their ego, surgeons who can't get along with their gyn colleagues, etc. Should find the GPA and mcat at which there are sharply diminishing returns on med school performance, set it as a cut off for consideration, then have considerably less weight placed on increasing performance above those cutoffs

Devils advocate here

Wouldn't you want your doctor to be some over achieving perfectionist? If you were a student who obsessed about getting a 4.0 in undergrad and then killing step 1, and are super confident in your abilities and a bit of a masochist in terms of being a workaholic.... Wouldn't you rather have that be your doctor than some English major who just took the pre reqs and sort of ran middle of the pack in med school?

I'd argue that having an Aspie radiologist reading your angiogram and a god complex surgeon who thinks he can cure anybody... Is actually a good thing?

Sure thy would be awful to work with, but to be their patient would be a good thing.

Some of the meanest workaholic antisocial attendings I've met are actually some of the first people I think of when I think of who id want to be at my bedside when I'm in the hospital. Idgaf about how much Socrates he reads in his off time or the fact he had some goofy major in undergrad. Idk. Just a thought.

[Flapjacko]

Attrition from us schools and residency is very low, and probably a small portion of that attrition is compulsory for personality issues. Med schools and residencies are notoriously lenient about not expelling / firing

Ya I guess, I just meant like when they go out to find a job, but I don't really know what im talking about because I'm sure they can find a job anywhere when they can get a residency because they are AMG somewhere and a job practically anywhere because of the demand for physicians.

I remember in MS1-2, I would just plan out my life how it was gonna be amazing and after I got my step 1 score, I knew it would be. But then I got into clinicals and I can't even think about tomorrow because i'm drowning everyday.

[F23]

^also my pov. Even as it is, med admissions is overly focused on stats. Makes you end up with ASD radiologists, God complex surgeons who think they can out read said radiologists, people who just keep pursuing more and more board certifications because it strokes their ego, surgeons who can't get along with their gyn colleagues, etc. Should find the GPA and mcat at which there are sharply diminishing returns on med school performance, set it as a cut off for consideration, then have considerably less weight placed on increasing performance above those cutoffs

You could have just said F23 and Dr. Horse.

But I totally agree tho. Beyond a requisite level, high test scores have nothing to do with one's ability to be a good doctor. The problem though is how to sort people out beyond that. The clinical years in med school sort of do that, but, the evaluation process was a total cluster... almost random.

Meanwhile, for my semiannual evaluation, I was criticized for being too nice/too accommodating to clinicians over phone (srs). Apparently I'm supposed to turn down more consults and more study requests.

[TheJoshuaa]

Does anyone have access to either of these papers?
PMID: 2881396
PMID: 2881397

foreveralone

[ViktorFrankl]

Devils advocate here

Wouldn't you want your doctor to be some over achieving perfectionist? If you were a student who obsessed about getting a 4.0 in undergrad and then killing step 1, and are super confident in your abilities and a bit of a masochist in terms of being a workaholic.... Wouldn't you rather have that be your doctor than some English major who just took the pre reqs and sort of ran middle of the pack in med school?

I'd argue that having an Aspie radiologist reading your angiogram and a god complex surgeon who thinks he can cure anybody... Is actually a good thing?

Sure thy would be awful to work with, but to be their patient would be a good thing.

Some of the meanest workaholic antisocial attendings I've met are actually some of the first people I think of when I think of who id want to be at my bedside when I'm in the hospital. Idgaf about how much Socrates he reads in his off time or the fact he had some goofy major in undergrad. Idk. Just a thought.

There's definitely value to the extremely driven type a personality that medicine selects for now, and I think that any increase in GPA / MCAT above whatever cutoff should be given some weight. My argument is that there's currently way too much weight given. If i had pancreatic cancer and was being evaluated for a possible Whipple, i'd want a technically proficient surgeon, but I'd also want one who had a strong collegial relationship with anesthesiology, who had an interest in having a real / nonsuperficial conversation with me about the pros and cons of proceeding with surgery vs conservative care (life expectancy, quality of life, etc), etc. I'm not saying the best surgeon is going to have a BA in East European literature, a 26 mcat, and a 3.2 BCPM GPA, but I also wouldn't say a 4.0 40 mcat biology major who dedicated all their time to studying and just checked off the service boxes is going to make the best psychiatrist. I would say performance in med school has a much higher correlation with future competency as a clinician than premed factors, and to my knowledge the correlation between things like GPA/mcat and step 1 / preclinical grades isn't crazy high. I'd rather focus on at least trying to get more well rounded applicants

[ViktorFrankl]

You could have just said F23 and Dr. Horse.

But I totally agree tho. Beyond a requisite level, high test scores have nothing to do with one's ability to be a good doctor. The problem though is how to sort people out beyond that. The clinical years in med school sort of do that, but, the evaluation process was a total cluster... almost random.

Meanwhile, for my semiannual evaluation, I was criticized for being too nice/too accommodating to clinicians over phone (srs). Apparently I'm supposed to turn down more consults and more study requests.

Just teasing brah. Though Getz was notably absent from that list. I couldn't think of anything to pick at him about.

Yeah, from what I've read any given aspect of the assessments in place are pretty crappy at predicting any kind of meaningful outcome (eg good clinical evals = less law suits, something beyond step 1 correlates with step 2)

[Synapsin]

foreveralone

http://www.filedropper.com/newwinrarziparchive_1

[Liet]

Sup brahs how's it going. Almost done with intern year then gonna get doodoo'd on for PGY2.

[chestenvy]

Congrats on finishing that first year. How was it? What specialty? I'm starting my intern year prelim medicine next month and orientation is next week. A bit nervous about learning an entire new hospital system... but I guess most everyone has to deal with it.

[low blow]

There are too many people who can destroy the MCAT, get a great GPA, and recycle canned answers in an interview. We all go to school with some amazing people, I'm sure, but I also know that there are people out there who have virtually zero life experience and have completely poor interaction skills.

^also my pov. Even as it is, med admissions is overly focused on stats. Makes you end up with ASD radiologists, God complex surgeons who think they can out read said radiologists, people who just keep pursuing more and more board certifications because it strokes their ego, surgeons who can't get along with their gyn colleagues, etc. Should find the GPA and mcat at which there are sharply diminishing returns on med school performance, set it as a cut off for consideration, then have considerably less weight placed on increasing performance above those cutoffs

I had a longer post but ill just shorten it to volunteering doesn't solve any of those issues - it's just another barrier. What it does do, in my opinion, is make it that much more difficult for people who actually need to work to support themselves get access to medical school - not everyone has the luxury of weekends/summers to spend time in Ghana or a food bank so they can write how much their token volunteer work made them realise they want to be a doctor.

/cynicism

[SurgeonBrah]

^also my pov. Even as it is, med admissions is overly focused on stats. Makes you end up with ASD radiologists, God complex surgeons who think they can out read said radiologists, people who just keep pursuing more and more board certifications because it strokes their ego, surgeons who can't get along with their gyn colleagues, etc. Should find the GPA and mcat at which there are sharply diminishing returns on med school performance, set it as a cut off for consideration, then have considerably less weight placed on increasing performance above those cutoffs

[Dr. Horse]

Lol @ the new touchy feely medicine.

You want a nice doctor or a good doctor? Gotta choose. You might get lucky and get both, but if you had to choose...?


brb 56hr work week
brb we all hold hands and sing
brb surgeons getting along with ob/gyn
brb whatisthisidonteven

[medhead]

But then I got into clinicals and I can't even think about tomorrow because i'm drowning everyday.

are you okay? (srs)

[FreeRadicals]

Lots of schools in Canada don't even require pre-reqs anymore, and instead jacked the GPA requirement up.

So now we have a bunch of socially clueless psychology/sociology med students running around.

[Fsharpasharp]

Lots of schools in Canada don't even require pre-reqs anymore, and instead jacked the GPA requirement up.

So now we have a much of socially clueless psychology/sociology med students running around.

Lol @ implying med students haven't always been socially inept/retarded/autistic (I can confirm after taking numerous classes with them, they are far more socially retarded than dental students). Psychology/sociology majors are without a doubt, far less socially handicapped.

[HIITforGains]

Lots of schools in Canada don't even require pre-reqs anymore, and instead jacked the GPA requirement up.

So now we have a bunch of socially clueless psychology/sociology med students running around.

Its especially hilarious that there are no board scores/step 1 equivalent for carms. So much nepotism for the specialty spots. Brb idiots operating on your eyes.

[HI_KKM]

Lol @ implying med students haven't always been socially inept/retarded/autistic (I can confirm after taking numerous classes with them, they are far more socially retarded than dental students). Psychology/sociology majors are without a doubt, far less socially handicapped.

this x 100 for the previous generation of doctors

brb wanting med students to spend whole life in hospital
brb not wanting social retards
brb not realizing only social retards will spend whole life in hospital

well rounded people are going to want a good work-life balance so they can continue being well rounded

[MakeABanana]

Lol @ implying med students haven't always been socially inept/retarded/autistic (I can confirm after taking numerous classes with them, they are far more socially retarded than dental students). Psychology/sociology majors are without a doubt, far less socially handicapped.

Well, yeah, if you consider having the time to get blitzed on booze/drugs on a nightly basis a sign of aptitude.

Btw, why is it that like 20% of all the dental students at my school smoke? If you see a group of dental students on my campus, chances are that you'll see a cloud of smoke hovering over them.

[Shortofdaybreak]

I had a longer post but ill just shorten it to volunteering doesn't solve any of those issues - it's just another barrier. What it does do, in my opinion, is make it that much more difficult for people who actually need to work to support themselves get access to medical school - not everyone has the luxury of weekends/summers to spend time in Ghana or a food bank so they can write how much their token volunteer work made them realise they want to be a doctor.

/cynicism

This is why I generally tell my few friends who ask about applying to medical school that it's not simply about how much time you spent in clinic...but how that time you spent went toward helping you make sure you were taking the path you wanted, and how you can explain that feeling to someone else.

One of the interviews I went to during my app cycle actually asked me why I had no shadowing experience. I responded by telling them that my app also said I had 5000+ hours of clinical experience from working, and I hadn't had the time to simply "volunteer" and shadow. The bertstares for the rest of the conversation were kinda LOL, but I instantly knew that school wasn't for me.

[low blow]

The bertstares for the rest of the conversation were kinda LOL, but I instantly knew that school wasn't for me.

*Face palm* Guess the experience doesn't count because you got paid

[NeverGunaMakeIt]

Any brahs here got rejected by their first choice school but accepted by their second choice? Any feelings of regret that you didn't try to enter the application cycle again to get into your first choice?

[TheJoshuaa]

Any brahs here got rejected by their first choice school but accepted by their second choice? Any feelings of regret that you didn't try to enter the application cycle again to get into your first choice?

The school you get into and ultimately attend is the best school in the world

[Shortofdaybreak]

Any brahs here got rejected by their first choice school but accepted by their second choice? Any feelings of regret that you didn't try to enter the application cycle again to get into your first choice?

Not really.


Med school isn't like undergrad. You don't pick and choose where you go because if you turn that seat down, there are 10000 other people who are chomping at the bit to get it. That seat next year is not guaranteed, and you probably will need to explain an app why you turned down a seat in one school to try for a shot at another. It's just unnecessary.


IMO, the best thing you can possibly do is understand and get yourself into the right mindset that once you set out on the path of medicine, you are open to the possibility that for the next 10 some-odd years, you don't have any real control about where you ultimately end up.

It may work out in your favor and you end up where you want (I'd love to move back to the West Coast for residency...but I don't give a chit where I go), but you'll probably be less stressed if you consider the fact that no matter where you do it, you're still making forward progress.