Guys goes keto, ends up with fasting glucose of 5.9?!

[Mrpb]

I was watching this documentary: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1a...rmac_lifestyle

A doctor goes on a one month keto style diet, after the month he has a fasting glucose of 5.9. They say it's almost pre diabetic. Also his insulin sensitivity has worsened.

I was expecting the opposite outcomes. Thoughts?

[TSV]

Did not watch (may watch later), but wanted to drop by and say that if he is apparently pre-diabetic, you must be referring to HbA1c (hemoglobin A1c) being 5.9, not glucose. Fasting blood glucose of 5.9 is very hypoglycemic.

[Mr.Cooper69]

Did not watch (may watch later), but wanted to drop by and say that if he is apparently pre-diabetic, you must be referring to HbA1c (hemoglobin A1c) being 5.9, not glucose. Fasting blood glucose of 5.9 is very hypoglycemic.

Let's just call it dead

[MichielN]

Did not watch (may watch later), but wanted to drop by and say that if he is apparently pre-diabetic, you must be referring to HbA1c (hemoglobin A1c) being 5.9, not glucose. Fasting blood glucose of 5.9 is very hypoglycemic.

Fasting glucose range in mmol/l is 4.0-6.0, at least where I live. It's still within range, although on the high end obviously.

[Holonist]

Fasting glucose range in mmol/l is 4.0-6.0, at least where I live. It's still within range, although on the high end obviously.

Actually , 5.9 would be around 105 which is well expected on a VLC diet , a person doing VLC is expected to be on the upper 90 / low 105 , me for example was getting 95-102 on my morning fasting results while my hba1c was on 4.7% ( average of 86 ). Its a known physiologic reaction during the morning provoking a physiologic "resistance" to insulin to reserve it to the brain due to the fact that the muscles are running on ketones . I have no idea why they would try to pass this as a very bad thing unless they are gaming on the FUD aspect of it. At least the end conclusions arent completly off i guess ...

[Mrpb]

at 39 minutes they're discussing results of insulin testing.

Doctor to the guy on the high carb diet: "your body's ability to produce insulin improved", "this is a good thing on the short term, it might be a bad thing long term".

To the guy on the keto diet: "your body is not responding to insulin as well as it did", "eventually your body will stop producing if you continue this diet".

[HealingHands8]

at 39 minutes they're discussing results of insulin testing.

Doctor to the guy on the high carb diet: "your body's ability to produce insulin improved", "this is a good thing on the short term, it might be a bad thing long term".

To the guy on the keto diet: "your body is not responding to insulin as well as it did", "eventually your body will stop producing if you continue this diet".

I really wouldn't give that stupid show too much thought. Nothing was controlled overly well. It was pseudoscience at it's best.

[xJellyBirdx]

I was watching this documentary: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1a...rmac_lifestyle

A doctor goes on a one month keto style diet, after the month he has a fasting glucose of 5.9. They say it's almost pre diabetic. Also his insulin sensitivity has worsened.

I was expecting the opposite outcomes. Thoughts?

I would too and every study I've seen says the keto dudes insulin sensitivity should improve. Maybe an outcome to his poorly structured diet? I'm curious how he would have done if he was giving coconut oil vs butter.

I really wouldn't give that stupid show too much thought. Nothing was controlled overly well. It was pseudoscience at it's best.

^kinda how I feel.

[Mrpb]

I fully understand this is not a scientific study. That doesn't the change the fact that I find the outcome interesting.

I've heard people say a keto diet will improve your insulin sensitivity. Here a man goes on a one month pure keto diet and the opposite happens.

The man conducting the experiment is Richard McKenzie.

Richard completed his PhD: Acute Hypoxia & Exercise Metabolism in Type 2 Diabetes (University of Brighton) in 2009. Following a RAE funded research position at Brighton, Dr. Mackenzie took up a lectureship at the University of Westminster in 2008 in the area of Human Physiology. Dr. Mackenzie’s teaching responsibilities are predominantly focused on fuel metabolism, human physiology and environmental physiology.

Dr Mackenzie is currently investigating the role of Inositol hexakisphosphate (IP6) kinase 1 (IP6K1) and the inositol pyrophosphate, IP7. in Akt/PKB inhibition.

His research is very much concentrated on health and muscle metabolism and takes two main focuses; 1) insulin (PI3-k/PKB) and contraction (AMPK) stimulation of GLUT-4 translocation in type 2 diabetes and 2) Myostatin signalling / regulation and skeletal muscle atrophy in inflammation processes. Dr. Mackenzie’s research uses hypoxic & exercise stimuli to investigate their effects of glucose metabolism and health.

http://www.westminster.ac.uk/about-u...kenzie-richard

Dr Richard Mackenzie, senior lecturer in cell metabolism and diabetes at the University of Westminster, comments on the experiment he conducted for last night’s *** Horizon programme ‘Sugar v Fat’ on the effects that diet has on increasing the risk of diabetes:

“The sugar vs fat debate is one of the most talked about health topics. Eating the right foods and taking part in some form of physical activity are essential for healthy living and disease prevention. We are all very much spoilt for choice when it comes to food selection and there are numerous diets currently available – many of which are confusing and hard to follow. Even more troubling are the potential effects these diets can have on our health.

“I was asked by the *** Horizon programme ‘Sugar v Fat’ to test the effects that a high fat and carbohydrate/ sugar diet would have on diabetic risk in twin doctors Chris and Alexander Van Tulleken. The question of whether fats and/ or carbohydrates are bad for us is not a new one. My research has led me to believe that either fat or carbohydrates in high amounts can be damaging to our health.

“What I found out when conducing the experiments on the twins not only surprised them but also shocked the *** Horizon team. One twin who followed a high fat diet and ate foods such as meat and cheese for one month lost around 4kg (8.8 pounds) in weight. However, he also increased his risk of developing type 2 diabetes and lost a worrying amount of muscle mass. While the other twin, consuming a high carbohydrate diet, saw little change. This was not necessarily surprising from a medical point of view as high fat intake and fat accumulation are predictors of diabetes. Too much fat accumulation can interfere with the workings of vital organs such as the liver, and can make the body resistant to insulin -the hormone that regulates blood sugar– potentially leading to diabetes.”

http://www.westminster.ac.uk/news-an...of-westminster

When he is saying "my research has led me to believe" I don't think he is referring to this keto experiment with 1 participant.

[xJellyBirdx]

I've heard people say a keto diet will improve your insulin sensitivity. Here a man goes on a one month pure keto diet and the opposite happens.

That is because the studies support this concept. I don't think one month is a fair trial. It takes a couple weeks to fully adapt over which could have drastically changed his mental performance and workout performance. I'd be curious to see what a more knowledgeable person has to say on it if they poke their head in here.

Curious if this study might interest you.

The effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low- glycemic index diet on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes mellitus.

[HealingHands8]

When he is saying "my research has led me to believe" I don't think he is referring to this keto experiment with 1 participant.

He is. He is referring to this documentary. & it wasn't true keto anyway. He probably ended up with >1g/lb protein, with little to no exercise. He was not in ketosis.

[Connor1226]

Did not watch (may watch later), but wanted to drop by and say that if he is apparently pre-diabetic, you must be referring to HbA1c (hemoglobin A1c) being 5.9, not glucose. Fasting blood glucose of 5.9 is very hypoglycemic.

I was gonna say, at 5.9 I'm surprised he's not in a coma haha

[Mrpb]

He is.

You think he calls this n=1 experiment "his research"? What makes you so sure?

[HealingHands8]

You think he calls this n=1 experiment "his research"? What makes you so sure?

Just by the wording:

I was asked by the *** Horizon programme ‘Sugar v Fat’ to test the effects that a high fat and carbohydrate/ sugar diet would have on diabetic risk in twin doctors Chris and Alexander Van Tulleken. The question of whether fats and/ or carbohydrates are bad for us is not a new one. My research has led me to believe that either fat or carbohydrates in high amounts can be damaging to our health.

What I found out when conducing the experiments on the twins not only surprised them but also shocked the *** Horizon team

Either way, it's as unreliable as 'science' from any other media outlet.

[Holonist]

Its worse , he took someone eating a VLC for weeks and did a forced glucose testing , it wasn't just a fasting one , without carbing up for a few days the one eating VLC will score terribly on that kind of exam. Insulin sensivity wasnt even discussed on the program , he is mixing sensitivity which would only would be done with a IRI measurement with the glucose going higher than baseline done on the start of the program ( which is normal once again ) . Crap conclusion right off the bat.

[Mrpb]

Its worse , he took someone eating a VLC for weeks and did a forced glucose testing , it wasn't just a fasting one , without carbing up for a few days the one eating VLC will score terribly on that kind of exam. Insulin sensivity wasnt even discussed on the program , he is mixing sensitivity which would only would be done with a IRI measurement with the glucose going higher than baseline done on the start of the program ( which is normal once again ) . Crap conclusion right off the bat.

You think he just throws that out there "your body is not responding to insulin as well as it did" without having done the actual test?

[Holonist]

You think he just throws that out there "your body is not responding to insulin as well as it did" without having done the actual test?

Seeing the results spitted out without any units behind them and using a OTGT and mixing it with fasting results to make it look way worse than it actually was ( for you info , 105 on a OTGT its good ) and saying that by eating a high fat diet he will go diabetic , for sure i do , this is garbage of the worse kind.

Another pet peeve , the fact that somehow the guy doing a low carb managed to lose 2kg of muscle but the brother doing a Sugar crush diet just lost 0.5kg and all of this in just 1 month its freaking mind boggling to say the least , is it just me picking this little gem up ?

[Mrpb]

You've raised some interesting points Holonist.

I've sent an email to Dr.MacKenzie asking him to clarify these points.

[Holonist]

You've raised some interesting points Holonist.

I've sent an email to Dr.MacKenzie asking him to clarify these points.

BTW , i am not endorsing ketogenic diets ( nor do i even think that guy actually did one ) . I went through hell with one recently due to metabolic issues and i know how bad they can turn out if you dont have any common sense ( common sense , i lack it and i am not a very smart man ... ) . I started reading these boards to try to gain muscle and recover some than i lost during a 35 kg drop in less than 5 months ( more like 4... ) due to a VLC + High fat diet that had me going over 40 days in a row in a deep keto state . I do know the pitfalls and dangers of one and know that they are not for everyone, but with that said , these results are completely bogus and highly suspicious. At least the got the end conclusion of the processed crap food being the source of the obesity epidemic .

[xJellyBirdx]

Another pet peeve , the fact that somehow the guy doing a low carb managed to lose 2kg of muscle but the brother doing a Sugar crush diet just lost 0.5kg and all of this in just 1 month its freaking mind boggling to say the least , is it just me picking this little gem up ?

I've been curious as to what effect water storage has on muscle in a body analysis. Water adds to your weight and fills up your muscle. I'd imagine some how measuring for BF when loaded with glycogen would produce different results than being flat and glycogen depleted. Anyone know?

[Holonist]

I've been curious as to what effect water storage has on muscle in a body analysis. Water adds to your weight and fills up your muscle. I'd imagine some how measuring for BF when loaded with glycogen would produce different results than being flat and glycogen depleted. Anyone know?

You do have a very good point , the issue is the following , they did a proper Bpod exam that is able to give the proper muscle % without any water being counted, there is no way he lost that much muscle in 1 month .

[muruku]

I've been curious as to what effect water storage has on muscle in a body analysis. Water adds to your weight and fills up your muscle. I'd imagine some how measuring for BF when loaded with glycogen would produce different results than being flat and glycogen depleted. Anyone know?

Does not answer your question, but you might find this interesting;
http://yelling-stop.blogspot.sg/2014...urce=BP_recent

[WonderPug]

It's sad to see a mainstream TV show, with physician participation, make such shockingly obvious errors in understanding basic physiology.

This is a good example of why the mainstream media is held in such poor regard by many folks.