"Quad dominant" problems here

[Divall213]

You're not quad dominant pal you are hamstring weak


Start hitting the hams 3-4x a week

[unstrong]

It does look like you might be rounding your back, but it is hard to tell from the obstructed angle. Also your depth got increasingly higher and higher with each rep:

first rep - below parallel
second rep -- just about parallel
third rep -- above parallel.


I did not notice the bar drifting forward fwiw. If your weight is on your toes you would know better than we would.

It's possible that the angle is just bad. @OP for the stuff that you're trying to figure out here straight from the side would probably be better.

You're not quad dominant pal you are hamstring weak


Start hitting the hams 3-4x a week

What the heck is the difference lol, it's all relative

[Rcross1989]

All of this is great advice but some is contradicting one another in some aspects. I just want to be able to have a great form ATG squat with heavy weight 315 plus for reps. Without doing a crapload of accessory work.

[RagingVeins]

All of this is great advice but some is contradicting one another in some aspects. I just want to be able to have a great form ATG squat with heavy weight 315 plus for reps. Without doing a crapload of accessory work.

If you want to focus on squatting, squat twice or even three times a week. Start at a weight low enough you can maintain proper ATG form, hammer out reps, and slowly increase through progressive overload until you reach your goal.

[unstrong]

All of this is great advice but some is contradicting one another in some aspects. I just want to be able to have a great form ATG squat with heavy weight 315 plus for reps. Without doing a crapload of accessory work.

You're probably gonna have to do some accessory work to reach that goal at this point, brother. Matt Wenning says that you don't fix squat weaknesses by squatting (well, you probably can as a super beginner, but once you're a bit experienced and have developed actual muscle imbalances probably not). You fix them with accessory work. If you don't feel your posterior chain engaging, that's a problem and it means it's weak compared to your quads. Unless you do a super deload and work up from scratch, the accessory work is gonna be your best bet.

[TrettinR]

You're probably gonna have to do some accessory work to reach that goal at this point, brother. Matt Wenning says that you don't fix squat weaknesses by squatting (well, you probably can as a super beginner, but once you're a bit experienced and have developed actual muscle imbalances probably not). You fix them with accessory work. If you don't feel your posterior chain engaging, that's a problem and it means it's weak compared to your quads. Unless you do a super deload and work up from scratch, the accessory work is gonna be your best bet.

This is largely dependent on your programming. A large portion of russian/eastern bloc lifters do little to no accessory work and they have phenomenal lifters.

[Rcross1989]

Ok today is squats I'm gonna do my set of squats and then what accessory work should I do after my squats would be most beneficial to my quest for an ATg 315 squat?

[Rcross1989]

I was doing 5/3/1 but ditched it because I feel that I'm still a beginner and that program wouldn't be very beneficial to me at this point. I kinda use the program boring but big 3 month challange but dont do the rep ranges or weight it says to use I just kinda use it as a template for my own program but I do use the accessory work it says

[unstrong]

This is largely dependent on your programming. A large portion of russian/eastern bloc lifters do little to no accessory work and they have phenomenal lifters.

Well, they also don't spend years developing muscular imbalances. I'm only speaking from the perspective of someone who has, to some extent, "done it wrong" with respect to form.

Of course, if you squat correctly from the beginning, you can be like Malanichev and only squat all day erryday

[doughnut91]

Knees buckling usually means weak adductors.

Surely weak abductors?

OP hit RDLs/SLDLs for ham and glute strengthening.

[unstrong]

Surely weak abductors?

OP hit RDLs/SLDLs for ham and glute strengthening.

This is one of the more debated and misunderstood topics. I think Lucifer is right. There is a Rippetoe article out there on why it's the adductors that are weak, but I'm having trouble finding it.

[TrettinR]

Well, they also don't spend years developing muscular imbalances. I'm only speaking from the perspective of someone who has, to some extent, "done it wrong" with respect to form.

Of course, if you squat correctly from the beginning, you can be like Malanichev and only squat all day erryday

You're making a large assumption that anyone who makes gains on a sheiko-esque high volume/high frequency program has always squatted correctly.

Edit: That's the beauty of that type of program. It allows you to practice technique over and over again and reinforcing motor patterns, hopefully good ones if you're putting in the effort to improve. Secondly, a system that is more intensity and less frequency/volume is going to be able to easily locate muscular imbalances but just doing the lifts with low frequency won't fix that weakness since you aren't doing as much work, therefore extra accessories would be needed. Doing a program with more volume/frequency is going to work those weaknesses to a much greater degree and less accessories are needed, if any at all.

Of course exceptions will exist in any scenario.

[tidnab]

All of this is great advice but some is contradicting one another in some aspects. I just want to be able to have a great form ATG squat with heavy weight 315 plus for reps. Without doing a crapload of accessory work.

Read the thread in my sig for help with keeping your midsection tight and avoiding rounding. The second post has some specific stretches you can do specifically for improving squat depth for ATG squats. Read the whole thing though, especially the parts about bracing and maintaining tightness.

[unstrong]

You're making a large assumption that anyone who makes gains on a sheiko-esque high volume/high frequency program has always squatted correctly.

Edit: That's the beauty of that type of program. It allows you to practice technique over and over again and reinforcing motor patterns, hopefully good ones if you're putting in the effort to improve. Secondly, a system that is more intensity and less frequency/volume is going to be able to easily locate muscular imbalances but just doing the lifts with low frequency won't fix that weakness since you aren't doing as much work, therefore extra accessories would be needed. Doing a program with more volume/frequency is going to work those weaknesses to a much greater degree and less accessories are needed, if any at all.

Of course exceptions will exist in any scenario.

Fair enough, I see what you're saying. Those are good points and that's probably an option.

[doughnut91]

This is one of the more debated and misunderstood topics. I think Lucifer is right. There is a Rippetoe article out there on why it's the adductors that are weak, but I'm having trouble finding it.

Just watched a Rippetoe video which lightly touched on the subject, but it still hasn't shed much light on it. I can't understand, logically and mechanically, how strengthening adductors will keep the knees out. To me, stretching them, and strengthening abdcutors would be the solution. Would be handy to see the article you mentioned, might help me get my head around it.

[Rcross1989]

I'll post a video tonight of my squatting 80 percent of my max deep and maybe you can see what my weaknesses are better then that old video

[unstrong]

Just watched a Rippetoe video which lightly touched on the subject, but it still hasn't shed much light on it. I can't understand, logically and mechanically, how strengthening adductors will keep the knees out. To me, stretching them, and strengthening abdcutors would be the solution. Would be handy to see the article you mentioned, might help me get my head around it.

Found it; this is Rip's take, at least. The stuff you're interested in is on page 3:

http://startingstrength.com/articles...2_rippetoe.pdf

[doughnut91]

Found it; this is Rip's take, at least. The stuff you're interested in is on page 3:

http://startingstrength.com/articles...2_rippetoe.pdf

To me, in that article, he says that external rotators (glutes med & min, amongst others) are responsible for keeping the knees out during a squat. He also points out how adductors are responsible ultimately for hip extension during the eccentric of the squat, which I fully understand, but that has nothing to do with maintaining abduction of the knees.

Really interesting article, though. Will rep after spreading it round.

[unstrong]

To me, in that article, he says that external rotators (glutes med & min, amongst others) are responsible for keeping the knees out during a squat. He also points out how adductors are responsible ultimately for hip extension during the eccentric of the squat, which I fully understand, but that has nothing to do with maintaining abduction of the knees.

Really interesting article, though. Will rep after spreading it round.

Even though what you're saying is true, the result is that the adductors can't assist in the hip extension if they cave inward because they're not in the mechanical position to do anything at that point, as they have less ability to do work the closer they are to the midline.

At least, that's what I get out of that third paragraph on the 3rd page and the discussion that follows.

[doughnut91]

Even though what you're saying is true, the result is that the adductors can't assist in the hip extension if they cave inward because they're not in the mechanical position to do anything at that point, as they have less ability to do work the closer they are to the midline.

At least, that's what I get out of that third paragraph on the 3rd page and the discussion that follows.

Yeah, maximum stretch and tension on the adductors is required for them to deliver maximum contraction, and assist in hip extension. But that is therefore dependant on knees being forced outwards by external rotators, to provide that stretch?

The role of muscles is obviously to shorten, and so how can the 5 adductors contracting force knees outward?

[unstrong]

Yeah, maximum stretch and tension on the adductors is required for them to deliver maximum contraction, and assist in hip extension. But that is therefore dependant on knees being forced outwards by external rotators, to provide that stretch?

The role of muscles is obviously to shorten, and so how can the 5 adductors contracting force knees outward?

Well, we successfully hijacked OP's thread. Lol.

My understanding is that there are two ways that this buckling can occur: (1) the adductors overpower the glute med/glute min/etc. that help perform external rotation. However, most novice trainees don't have terribly strong adductors, so this seems unlikely to me, especially because knee buckle is usually coupled with sore adductors, which should not happen if they were too strong; (2) the adductors are too weak to actually assist in the concentric lift, so the body compensates with knee buckle to deemphasize them and take them out of the lift. The latter seems more likely, especially when coupled with a weak posterior chain as a whole, because the result of the cave is to put a lot more pressure on the quads.

The idea is that the body will try to get itself into its strongest position when sufficiently loaded. For a lot of trainees, myself included, there is a lot of natural development of the quad over the course of the lifetime and significantly less emphasis on posterior chain strength/adduction, as they are not muscles that are taxed particularly hard in the modern world.

[IDrinkBloodLOL]

If the question is "wat do," I suggest deadlifts, straight leg deadlifts and dumbbell/kettlebell swings. That will sort your hamstrings out fast, lower back too.

[godsamurai]

I think things might be going wrong direction and overcomplicated here. Try not to pass your knees over the toes, and see if you feel more on the glute and hams.

I also have been doing low bar squat for more than a year, it definitely hits glute/hams more than high bar. Just try. You probably won't even need ATG high bar squat that many people mentioning here.

[Malfurion]

Try using a wider stance. Keep going wider until you really feel it in your hams/glutes.

[alexanderberg]

Try wide-stance low-bar squats as an accessory to engage your glutes more


Edit: Also, think about pushing your knees out to the side, sit back, perhaps even lean forward a bit to disengage the quads

[Rcross1989]

Ok I did 225 for 6 and that absolutely all I had in me. So frustrating and my lower back felt really pumped afterwords it had never done that before. But it's starting to get so frustrating I almost screamed out loud. I gotta be doing it completely wrong. I'm not activating my muscles properly or something cuz I used all the tips above and same **** happened. Knees buckled back probably rounded and it prolly from a bystander looked like terrible form.

[tidnab]

Ok I did 225 for 6 and that absolutely all I had in me. So frustrating and my lower back felt really pumped afterwords it had never done that before. But it's starting to get so frustrating I almost screamed out loud. I gotta be doing it completely wrong. I'm not activating my muscles properly or something cuz I used all the tips above and same **** happened. Knees buckled back probably rounded and it prolly from a bystander looked like terrible form.

Try taking another video with a clearer angle. Can't tell you if you're doing things completely wrong if we can't see you. It might just be in your head.

One quick check though is just to do a bodyweight squat next to a mirror, holding your arms in front of you (as needed) for balance. Check yourself out while your in the bottom position. Is your back tight? If not that should give you something to work on.

As for knees buckling, try pushing through the outside halves of your feet. That will really help with driving your knees out-- you will find it much easier to keep them from buckling.

[Rcross1989]

I'm pretty certain I have pelvic tilt aka butt winking. Also last night my lower back got pumped doing squats? I'll post a vid here from a good angle.

[RagingVeins]

Ok I did 225 for 6 and that absolutely all I had in me. So frustrating and my lower back felt really pumped afterwords it had never done that before. But it's starting to get so frustrating I almost screamed out loud. I gotta be doing it completely wrong. I'm not activating my muscles properly or something cuz I used all the tips above and same **** happened. Knees buckled back probably rounded and it prolly from a bystander looked like terrible form.

Lower the weight, man. I'd be able to squat more weight also if I was willing to let my form go to **** and do a partial good morning or not go low enough, et cetera. It wouldn't do me any good, though, and it won't do you any good. As I said before, having proper form isn't going to magically activate all of your muscles and allow you to squat higher weight. Proper form will just allow you to get to depth, which is tougher than not getting to depth anyway, and it will prevent injury because your back will stay straight and your knees won't be taking a brunt of the weight. You're going to have to work hard on strengthening your legs to get your squat up, and it will take time. Until then, unless you want to injure yourself, you should lower the weight to a point where you can hammer out reps with proper form.

[Rcross1989]

I can hit below parellel with 225 it's just my knees buckle but idk if my form is THAT terrible with that weight. But yes I understand what your saying. What weight should I use and what rep ranges with good form should I be looking at?