20-Hydroxyecdysterone

[brwnsuga]

I've already read a lot of posts here that say that ecdy. is not worth it. My question is: Has anyone used ecdy. at the proper dosages? Remember that the japanese and russian (human) research concluded that a minimum dosage of 5mg ecdy. per kg bodyweight was required to have any noticeable effect on the subject. Looking at most ecdy. products on the market, using the dosage specified would not yield the amount of ecdy. needed. Remember that I am talking about the minimum dosage. It should also be noted that other research concluded that 10mg/kg was needed.

If you've used ecdy. with at least the minimum dosage of 5mg/kg, please provide your bodyweight, protein intake per day, amount of ecdy. taken per day, and duration of ecdy. supplementation. This information could help people make a better decision about these products.

[D&G]

Do you have any idea how much it would cost to take that amount?

[K (same)]

lol. I just read that the going whole sale price is $460 per kilo.

[WhiteKnuckles]

Wow. a whole 42 cents a day (wholesale). Assuming a +400% markup, a 30 day supply would cost you roughly $60.

[matpal]

I think the only one worth even trying would be syntrax's. They have by far the highest dose per serving- 200mg each, I think.

[Lats McGee]

i am about to start using syntrabol by syntrax myself, i have a few friends who really love the stuff.

[frankie]

Beyond A Century has 50 grams at 50% which equates to 25 grams of 20 ECYDSTERONE. I will keep an open mind and try 600 mg (of 50%) / day and see if it works. At this price it equates to 42 cents per day. If it works in combination with protein and exercise during my resting period from 1-Test then I will be happy. If my percent bodyfat does not raise, I will know I have been successful. I have trouble keeping bodyfat off of me. I do not want to endlessly conduct bulking and cutting cycles. They also have bulk Tribulus at 10% Protodioscin at a reasonable daily price - I will try keep an open mind on this substance too. Any people have an opinion about SUMA? SUMA is very popular in South America. SUMA is reputed to also contain ECYDSTERONE SUMAX is their standardized brand of SUMA. If all of these compounds (except Tribulus) are lipid soluable - taking it in flax or fish oil should help absorption efficiency. Any comments about this?

[brwnsuga]

I know it would cost a lot, but the point is, why try it at the small dosages most companies are providing when it won't have any effect? None of us really have an idea if ecdy. works because we never had the correct dosage due to misinformation or the steep price. I'd like to try it at the correct doses myself, but the price is the problem.

Thanks Frankie for trying for us. Keep us posted on the events. I've heard a lot of good stuff about Syntrabol myself. For me, to have 5mg/kg would be about 2 capsules a day. That doesn't seem that bad. Then again, if I got for 10mg/kg, that 4 capsules... I might try this out in a few weeks when I get rid of some of the other supplements I'm "testing" out.

[StreamlinedMass]

Frankie, your talking about the 50g of Ecdysterone for $35 which I was considering myself. I was thinking about using the entire 50g in one month...which would be about 800mg of ECD per day (1600mg/day @ 50% potency). This would be a good way to test it. I used Syntrabol before at 600mg a day for a month. I did a show in November and then one in February (about 2weeks ago), and its the only differant product I used...just the usual creatine, gluatine, etc. Anyway everyone was amazed with the differance in my appearance in only a few months will very little time to mass build. You talked about the Suma products. I also am interested in the Anabolica from BAC, but don't know much about either. What do you know about them?

[D&G]

Some people are so dumb - why are you even bothering to throw your money at this **** - have u even read the studies done on mice in Russia in the 70's?

If you want steroid gains go buy some steroids coz you ain't gonna get 'em from plant sterols.

[wardog]

D&G amen brother. I have just one statement:

Humans do not posses ecdysteroid receptors and thus there is no place for these compounds to bind and induce transcription. Insects on the other hand do. !!!

What more needs to be said..bug boys? It is called placebo effect, or else, well perhaps your mother was a cockroach.

[brwnsuga]

I've read a lot of the research done on ecdy. and it is promising at the doses recommended (mentioned above). Ecdy. is not only used by insects, but plants as well. While it is true that we do not have receptors for ecdy. to bind to, it does not mean that ecdy. does not have any effect on us. Plant base sterols are starting to be studied more and more for their effect on human beings. A simple example would be beta-sitosterol (SIT), found in peanuts. It studies, it has been shown to inhibit certain cancers. Gives you another reason to eat natural peanut butter, right? Other interesting research on some phytosterols are the cholesterol lowering effect. Some phytosterols actually bind to sites for cholesterol.

I have to admit I was a little skeptical at first, but with all this research and it's continued use by athletes from Japan and Russia, it does warrant some looking into. That's why I am trying to promote testing (for those who can afford it ) by our own guys at BB.com. It has to be at least the minimum dosage of 5mg/kg.

[D&G]

You won't give up until you have spent all your money on it and end up living in a shop doorway - go on then - it still won't work - I have read enough stuff from enough knowledgable people that it does not work.

Its just the latest in a long line of BS prodcuts designed to take money away from those foolish enough to believe the hype.

[StreamlinedMass]

Fellas, fellas, thank you for your insight but we have read all the same message threads as you all. There is no need to continuously bash a product with the same old song when people who have interest in it are hypothetically discussing what could make it a potentially effective product. Yes products like Pinnacle Ecdybol, and EAS MethoxyFactor have done nothing for anyone, but these products have no where near enough active ingriedient...at least 5mg/kg/day of actual ECD. Few can take a product like Syntrabol at doses of 6 pills or more a day because of financial concerns. Now that there are places that sell ingredients like Ecdysterone in bulk, there is at least the ability to try out the product at the necessary dose. There is no need to come in and blast people over and over, and call them idiots for discussing the potential of products. These are probably the same people that 3 years ago said "Prohormones are total crap" because they or someone they knew took Twinlab Andro Fuel and got nothing...because it really was an immature and crappy product...but now are discussing whats the best 4AD/1AD stack. Products mature, ingredients become more pure, and research is always coming out...to not even consider the potential of such interesting products seems a bit foolish to me.

[brwnsuga]

Nicely said StreamlinedMass!

[elevated]

May I ask what the results of taking ECDY in BULK from BAC were? I am extremely curious.

I will state that I have used Syntrabol in the past, but not at the "HIGH DOSE". I did however notice a benefit in running when I was using the Syntrabol. Who knows why, maybe the ecdy acts like a stimulant to the body, and only a performance enhancing stimulant, that was what I basically experienced.

Sorry for bringing this old thread back to life, but I would like to know what those guys experienced from their experiment.

THANK YOU, ANY HELP IS GREATLY APPRECIATED

[RippedUp]

Originally posted by elevated
Sorry for bringing this old thread back to life,

On the contrary, thank you for not starting ANOTHER new thread on ecdy.
Bumping up old threads is always best.

[philhill4]

Everyone I have worked with you have or currently use Ecdysterone find great results between 1500-3000mgs a day. While we do see some get decent results in the 900mg range, the results increase dramatically once you break the 1500mg mark.

We have also seen the same situation with methoxyflavone. Dose range should be 1500-3000mgs a day. Save money and buy them both in bulk from beyond a century.

[Seth Roberts]

True, humans do not possess ecdysterone receptors, but they do possess FXR, LXR, PXR, RXR, RAR, PPAR and some orphan receptors that ecdysterone may be capable of interacting with. Just a thought.

[elevated]

I thank you very much for your opinions. While there are alot of people who speak against Ecdy and Methoxy, I honestly believe that there must be some potential with both compounds.

[Uber-neggR]

i also believe thier is some truth behind the fable.

i'm planning to get ecdy in a massive bulk and i'm gonna take the dosses near the maximum dosses alllowed for three weeks. i don't care what others say, i'm doing it.

[SilverMajesty]

if this stuff works even to a small degree it would be awesome, its not like 60 cents a day would kill me, thats what the cost of my ON is at 2 scoops a day. i'd love to see this stuff add an extra 2 or 3 poudns of lbm a cycle, if it did i'd buy it... always need something for the off months of creatine...

[elevated]

My plan is to buy 150 grams of Ecdysterone in bulk, and possibly
100 grams of Methoxy. Using 5 grams of Ecdy a day for the first week and then 3 grams a day for the following weeks. The Methoxy dosage will probally be at 2 or 3 grams a day for the whole month. Of course, taking in the protein as well, just 200 grams a day, to give some material for the Ecdy/Methoxy to work with. My current body weight is 195, but I feel that 200 grams of protein powder, plus the daily food intake, will suffice for amounts of nutrition.

I'm thinking, why not go "all out" and use both Ecdy and Methoxy at the same time, cant go wrong. That way I would finally know what the true effects are from using these so called "bug steroids." From what I understand, evident results should be seen within just 1 month, maybe slight effects within the first week.

[SilverMajesty]

dont do both at once, or else your trial would be pretty much invalid. run one at a time for 2 weeks first. i think at 5g's a day you would see results, make sure you're not on anything that you dont normally take(aka any other supps other than protein) and we'll just see.

[elevated]

Your right, i've considered taking them both to maximize possible results, but in order to single out the ecdysterone, I will take it seperately. Then based on results after 1 month, I would "stack it" with Methoxy, and see if gains would rise further.

Also, I do not currently take any other supplements, no creatine or anything, just the protein. Thus, it will be a clean experiment, with no negating factors. I'm planning on starting the 1st of January, and will definitely post results, each week or so.

-elevated

[WillBrink]

Originally posted by brwnsuga
I've already read a lot of posts here that say that ecdy. is not worth it. My question is: Has anyone used ecdy. at the proper dosages? Remember that the japanese and russian (human) research concluded that a minimum dosage of 5mg ecdy. per kg bodyweight was required to have any noticeable effect on the subject. Looking at most ecdy. products on the market, using the dosage specified would not yield the amount of ecdy. needed. Remember that I am talking about the minimum dosage. It should also be noted that other research concluded that 10mg/kg was needed.

If you've used ecdy. with at least the minimum dosage of 5mg/kg, please provide your bodyweight, protein intake per day, amount of ecdy. taken per day, and duration of ecdy. supplementation. This information could help people make a better decision about these products.

Errr, just what studies would those be? In vivo double blind human studies that have seen the light of day in a peer reviewed journal that found effects on LBM? Full studies vs abstracts? Russian "research" is more often than not a joke. Japanese if often not much better, but far better than Russian. The Russians also think Deer Antler works and alot of other goofy things.

[FullyLoaded]

D&G amen brother. I have just one statement:

Humans do not posses ecdysteroid receptors and thus there is no place for these compounds to bind and induce transcription. Insects on the other hand do. !!!

What more needs to be said..bug boys? It is called placebo effect, or else, well perhaps your mother was a cockroach.

I read that it had no effect on the human body's receptors or natural hormones levels, but acted through a different pathway.

Still not convinced this stuff works. On the other hand ZMA does very well .


FL

[Abu Misho]

i found this product:SciFit EcdySterone 300,it has 300mg of 20-Beta-Hydroxyecdysterone per serving for 60 servings,that mean that their recommended dose (600mg per day) would last you A MONTH,and its price is $24.95 for a month supply here on bb.com.i don't know if ecdy. work,but this product has a good dose for a good price to those who are willing to use ecdy.

PEACE

[remborun]

D&G amen brother. I have just one statement:

Humans do not posses ecdysteroid receptors and thus there is no place for these compounds to bind and induce transcription. Insects on the other hand do. !!!

What more needs to be said..bug boys? It is called placebo effect, or else, well perhaps your mother was a cockroach.

While that is apparently true (insectscience.org/3.7/Lafont_et.al._JIS_3_7_2003), the same research artcle notes the following: Ecdysteroids and physical performance
20E is claimed to have tonic properties (Abubakirov et al.,
1988). Indeed it stimulates muscle growth, provided that protein
supply is adequate. Such anabolic effects result in increased physical
performance without training (Chermnykh et al., 1988). This was
for instance demonstrated using the forced swimming test with rats:
animals given ecdysteroids for one week were able to swim for
significantly longer times (Azizov and Seifulla, 1998). These effects
are similar to those of anabolic steroids. 20E is also able to increase
muscle ATP content in vitamin D-deprived rats (Kholodova et al.,
1997).
Ecdysteroids: effects on cellular proliferation and differentiation
Wound-healing effects of ecdysteroids have been described
(Syrov and Khushbatkova, 1996; Darmograi et al., 1998). 20E
(applied at 0.1% w/w in liposomes) shortens the duration of skin
repair after superficial wounding and 20E (2 x 10–4M) stimulates
keratinocyte differentiation in vitro (Detmar et al., 1994), an effect
measured by the increase of the activity of transglutaminase (an
enzyme involved in protein connection through isopeptidic bond


... Ecdysteroids and protein synthesis
Stimulatory effects of ecdysone on protein synthesis were
reported as early as 1963 (Burdette and Coda, 1963), and the
discovery of phytoecdysteroids made these molecules available in
large amounts for pharmacological assays. It was rapidly shown
that ecdysteroids were able to stimulate protein synthesis in mouse
liver (Okui et al., 1968; Otaka et al., 1968, 1969a&b). In fact, it
was shown that 20E stimulates the incorporation of [14C]leucine in
a cell-free translation system (rat liver polysomes), i.e. it increases
the efficiency of the translational machinery (Syrov et al., 1978).
Such conclusions have been confirmed and extended to other tissues,
especially heart and muscles (Syrov et al., 1975a; Aizikov et al.,
1978; Khimiko et al., 2000). Recent structure-activity studies (Syrov
et al., 2001) as measured by a stimulation of [14C] aminoacid
incorporation into proteins showed that among the compounds tested
turkesterone was the most active, followed by cyasterone and 20E.

[MartinezBR]

You just quoted a msg almost 11 years old! thats probably the new BB.com record!