So i've just purchased the Bodylastics with the highest resistance i think its around 400 odd pounds and the problem i have is my door just doesnt look strong enough for me to use as an anchor so i have two choices and i'm trying to figure out which is better and how to go about making it work.
A)
http ://s29.postimg.org/eov0uhi6f/Picture_1278.jpg
So as you can see i have drawn what i would imagine to be the best use of this set up.
Open both windows, and feed a rope out the window on the left and back in the window on the right and keep wrapping it round the concrete wall in the centre tightly. Allowing me to attach my cables and use the rope wrapped round as a very very strong anchor that i could use to full resistance without worry that it will pull anything off like a door setup, aslong as bands don't snap it is the safest choice i'd imagine much like using a tree and most likely even more solid.
Pro's:
maximum resistance safely and cheap, using washing line rope wrapped round multiple times for strong safe anchor.
Con's:
is limited to mid section mostly and a bit of height.. with no lower option as bottom of window is lowest point useable around my waist height.
will be hard to keep the rope/anchor in one spots without it falling down to lower position ? and no way of stopping Resistance bands hooks of staying on the outside of the anchor/rope as they would end up sliding to meet each other in the middle.
not as much room to go back as its the short distance of a rectangle shaped room.
B)
http ://s14.postimg.org/tc6nj523l/Picture_1281.jpg
Large Concrete wall not sure how far back it goes before i'd reach the other side, but it is solid concrete as it is the chimney line behind the wall, I'd imaging using some sort of hooks in the 6 places and hook my bands onto them, also with the bands i have it has hook attachments so a closed hook would be best to avoid it coming off the hook at some point ?
Pros:
Can use high/medium and low resistance
more room as its the longer distance of the rectangle room.
Cons:
Not as safe at full tension i'd imagine. hooks may come loose and smack me.
So those are my two options which do you think would be to go with ? and how would you do it ?
thanks and sorry about breaking up the image links address as i'm not allowed to post links yet and was the only way i could post my image ideas.... remember to close the gap i put in for a working link
thanks
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Thread: bodylastics - best setup ?
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04-09-2014, 01:04 PM #1
bodylastics - best setup ?
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04-09-2014, 01:18 PM #2
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04-09-2014, 01:24 PM #3
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04-09-2014, 01:53 PM #4
Of the two options you present, the only one which really makes sense to me is to affix some anchors to the wall.
The photos below show the set up that I'm using for Lifeline USA resistance cables. I purchased a long oak board. (I chose oak because it's really hard. I knew that anything screwed into it would stay put.) Into that oak board, I attached a number of eye bolts. I used the screw type, but some people have mentioned that they would worry about them pulling out. I installed these in 2010 and have had no problem yet, but if this concerns you, you should use the bolt type which has to be secured from behind using a nut and washer. Of course, that would entail using a thicker piece of wood into which you'd have to drill countersinking holes. Another possibility is to use some other kind of spacer so that the protruding bolts on the back side do not damage the wall. One idea for such a spacer is to use another board into which are drilled some larger holes that correspond to the locations of the eyebolts in the outer piece of wood. They could be glued together once the necessary holes had been drilled or they could just be screwed into the wall. You'll be better able to finish them if they're glued.
In any case, once I had the eye screws placed in the long oak board (and had used a router to give it an interesting edge and painted it too), I attached it to the wall using a number of long lag screws. This is what it looks like from top to bottom. It's nice to have a number of attachment points depending on the movement being performed.
This is what one of the hooks looks like with an attached resistance cable. I bought some utility cord from my local hardware store, and cut lengths of it to form loops to which the resistance cable is attached. As I recall, I cut lengths of rope about 2.5 feet in length. If you do this, you'll have to experiment with it to see what works best for you. Once the cord was cut, the ends were heated, which melted them. This keeps the ends from fraying or unraveling. A loop is then formed by tying the ends using a Double Fisherman's Knot. Once you have a suitable loop, you can Girth Hitch it to the resistance cable. I have found that once you tighten the girth hitch up, it bites into the softer resistance band enough to allow you to use even heavy resistance cables without movement. (Both one handed and two handed movements may be performed without slippage.) If you're concerned about slippage, however, you can use another knot with more bends, such as a Prusik Knot. Use of a Prusik Knot will also distribute more of the load over a greater length of the resistance cable which may, perhaps, stress it less. A carabiner purchased from the hardware store is used to attach the loop of utility cord to the anchor (eye bolt).
Here's a photo showing one handed use:
I have performed rows using the very heaviest resistance bands that Lifeline sells. The entire set up has worked well for performing (relatively) heavy rows. The cord attaching the cables to the anchor has held up well and the eye hooks have stayed put without any loosening.
BUT...
There are limits to how heavy you can go with resistance bands & cables. Consider the row, for example. In order to perform a row, you anchor the midpoint of the resistance cable to the wall. You then grasp a handle in each hand and back up from the wall at which point you commence doing the rows. As you go heavier and heavier with the bands, you'll find it increasingly difficult to back up from the wall. You'll find that your own body weight and the friction between your feet and the floor will limit you in how far you're able to back up. Therefore, if you want to go heavy, you'll need some other kind of implement, such as actual weight. Resistance bands and cables are great for lighter weight (resistance) movements though.Last edited by KBKB; 04-09-2014 at 01:57 PM.
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04-09-2014, 02:09 PM #5
Yeah that is a fantastic setup especially having more than 6 points to use for different workouts but i'm just curious why you used the wood for putting the hooks into, then attaching the wood to the wall. Rather than putting the hooks directly into the wall ?
I would imagine the hooks would stay into a concrete wall a bit better than a wooden plank even if it is the strongest piece of wood which i'd have thought would eventually begin to crack or wear down with repeated pulls ?
Is there a reason you would suggest against me inserting 10 or so hooks directly into the wall for using ? as i'm not as gifter with the power tools as yourself.
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04-09-2014, 02:59 PM #6
This is a really important point. That said, just as a sort of aside, I've found a number of other uses for my cables (I also have lifeline brand) as supplements to my particular set up that I've found nice to have available. For example, I have the ironmaster cable attachment, and one thing I sometimes do is anchor the lifeline cable low opposite the cable tower and use it as a sort of stabilizer whilst doing low-high one-handed cable "crossovers." Ditto for high-low. I have also used it whilst doing grip training on my hangboard as a sort of band assist. You get the idea. But yes it's definitely important to bear in mind that, in terms of resistance and bodybuilding-style hypertrophy, bands will only get you so far because of the limitations you've noted.
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04-09-2014, 03:14 PM #7
I know i bought the most resistant bands but that was purely because for all of an extra few bucks i thought i may awell have the option incase i needed it or could manage to use it somehow.
but my goal is to lose fat,tone,build some muscle or at worst keep what i have and to lower cortisol levels and increase my testosterone.
As i have high cortisol from prescribed long term steroid use, and im bloating up like stay puft marshmallow man because of it, gaining weight along with erectile dysfunction issues and... basically cardio is a no no for me as it makes all those issues worse, so i have been advised to do resistance training instead to combat it but not to much resistance as it will most likely stress the body too much aswell and cause cortisol spikes.
I also have a treadmill in the room which i use for walking incline and a punchbag for short HIIT stuff which seems to do the trick for me.
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04-09-2014, 03:31 PM #8
If that is a chimney it is probably brick which is going to be different than poured concrete. Bricks are relatively soft and generally hollow. Either way, you need to use a specialized masonry anchor instead of a screw thread as you would find on an eye bolt. Masonry anchors rely on part of the anchor expanding to wedge itself in the hole. I wouldn't rely on a single anchor point into an unknown structure such as a chimney to hold hundreds of pounds of force. Spreading out the load over a larger area using multiple fasteners into piece of wood similar to what KBKB has done would be better. When looking at anchors you will find they are rated for different loads. One is shear load such as hanging a picture on a wall. This is different from tensile load, which is what you will have if you are pulling the anchor out.
Last edited by tiwg; 04-09-2014 at 03:37 PM.
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04-09-2014, 03:40 PM #9
Yeah i get what the both are saying, so by running the band through a few different anchor points it spreads the pulling pressure, the only thing i'm worried about with this is the wear and tear of a band rubbing through multiple hooks and snapping with the friction ? rather than just one hook and it being used at full length... is this something i should be worried about and if so how would i combat this ?.
I know it aint the ideal way of doing it but with this getting more complicated, i think just using a long belt like thing and putting it out one window and in the other and fastening it would be the best and safest bet ? it's basically wrapping a belt round a tree and will enable me to pull as hard as a llike and without the worry of metal anchors flying at my face thoughts ?
the only issue i have with this is that i can only connect it between the window space.... so it's medium to high with no lower pulley option but i do have a free standing punch bag loaded with sand to the top so maybe i could use the base for the lower workouts when needs using the anchor strap that comes with the system.
Failing that it will be the front door to the house which is one of those ones that has like 6 bolts when you look it built in..... and is air tight round the sides... you lift the handle to lock the door system... would have prefered keeping the whole workout thing to the spare room with the workoutmats and music system etc..
Just realized hooking it through multiple anchors wouldnt work unless they were large eye hooks as each of the band comes with a hook attachment which is rather large/wide so for it to thread the needle the hole would need to be very big on each hook.Last edited by fendertele; 04-09-2014 at 03:46 PM.
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04-09-2014, 03:51 PM #10
You don't need to run the band itself through multiple anchor points. The idea is to have something known to be solid on the wall, such as length of 2x4. That spreads the force over a large area of wall using multiple anchors. You then put eye bolts into that 2x4 for different positions for the bands, but only use one at a time.
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04-09-2014, 03:57 PM #11
I would do a sort of combination of both. Mount two (for example) vertical lengths of rope (could be another material) to the masonry wall, each anchored in the three places indicated in the drawing. Tie a spaced series of knots (or loops) in the ropes to act as locators for the bands. Attach the bands to the ropes as needed.
Much safer than attaching to a single point. Pullout force on the masonry anchors is re-directed towards a shearing force. More than one masonry anchor would have to fail simultaneously (or the carabiner fail, or rope break) for the system to fail catastrophically.
It shouldn't be anymore complicated or expensive than the two alternative plans you have now.
A 2x4 with through bolted eye bolts would work the same in function.Last edited by Seatard; 04-09-2014 at 04:01 PM.
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04-09-2014, 03:58 PM #12
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04-09-2014, 04:02 PM #13
Okay, so there's a number of questions here, which I'll try to do my best to answer. Some of the regulars here know a lot more about construction and materials than I do; hopefully they'll be able to correct me if I'm wrong or add additional information where I can't.
I chose to put the hooks into a piece of wood, which was then fastened to the wall for several reasons:
1) It's reliably stronger to use a separate piece of wood which is then attached to the wall behind it. Or, at least, I believe that this is true for my set up. As I mentioned before, I used oak. According to this reference, the specific gravity of oak is 0.67. Applying the formula P=15,700G2DL, where P is the computed pull out force in pounds, G is the specific gravity, D is the shank diameter of the screw (in inches), and L is the insertion depth (also in inches), I calculate P as 991lbs for my set up. (The shank diameter is 3/16" and the insertion depth is 3/4".) The formula in question was obtained from page 8-11 of "Wood as an Engineering Material" also known as General Technical Report FPL-GTR-190.
I don't know what type of wood the studs are behind the drywall, but let's assume they're pine. In order to achieve the same pull out strength (assuming a worst case specific gravity for the wood studs at 0.35), I would have had to procure eye screws which could insert 2.75" into the studs. Add in 3/4" of drywall and that means that these eye screws would have needed to be at least 3.5" in length. I don't know if these are readily available or not.
This assumes of course, that I can find good wood at each point where I want to insert an eye screw. When I went to drill one of the holes for attaching the oak board to the wall, I found nothing there! I ended up using a drywall anchor in this location. This is why I emphasized the word "reliably" above. By choosing a known good piece of wood into which I could attach my anchors, I can be certain of having a uniform pull out strength for each. The resulting load is then distributed to the various attachment points to the wall (which were accomplished via thick, long lag screws). I don't remember how long they were, nor how thick they were at the moment, but each of these provides considerably more strength than the pull out force of the eye screws. With the set up I have, the eye screws are the weak link, though as mentioned in my earlier post, you can make this aspect of it much stronger by using eye bolts which fasten using a nut.
2) It looks nicer. Had I attached eye screws directly to the studs behind the drywall, the drywall would have become damaged over time as a result of the cable hanging and rubbing up against it.
3) I couldn't be certain of what was behind the drywall. My initial investigation suggested that there was a stud in the location where I sought to attach the board, but as noted earlier, there was one hole that I drilled where there was nothing. Perhaps there was a vacant knot in the wood at this point. Regardless, by distributing the load between several attachment points, I was able to mitigate this uncertainty.
Attaching hooks or eye bolts directly to a concrete wall may be feasible, though I think you should first determine the pull out strength of the fasteners you're using for your wall. Note that if you use my approach (or a suitable modification), you'll be able to achieve some measure of reliability even if one or more attachments to your concrete wall are not as strong as you'd like them to be. You should also pay a visit to your hardware store to see what kind of hardware is available for this application. Many of the better concrete anchors have their own bolts that must be used with the anchor. This would require you to purchase some sort of separate hook which can be attached to the bolt.
According to this document, a pull out strength of 1,200lbs can be achieved by using a short lag shield with a 3/8" bolt or by using a 5/16" bolt with one of the long lag shields. But this assumes that you're using concrete with a minimum compressive strength of 3,000psi.▪█─────█▪ Equipment Crew #35
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04-09-2014, 04:04 PM #14
only problem is that in the two pictures that are different walls.... because if it was the same wall i would have put wall mounts on and used the rope out the window trick to emulate the bodylastics anchor door system they sell with.
But the the window wall has a radiator below the window level but you cant see it which leave me no chance of having a low level attachment on the wall and would need to use something seperate like my punchbag base for doing curls and such.
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04-09-2014, 04:06 PM #15
Just watched the first few seconds, he says he put screwed them into the studs. Assuming he did get them solidly into wood then it's fine. Sometimes it's hard to hit studs exactly, sure you can use a 'studfinder' but it's not exact. You can drill small pilot holes to know for sure the stud locations. If you wanted to put them in a position where there is no stud behind you'd need a different setup (like KBKB's setup).
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04-09-2014, 04:11 PM #16
Yeah that clears it up quite a bit for me. I too have tried to see what kind of studs are behind this wall but as it feels like solid concrete and makes no noise at all when i hit it.... i can't even hear where its hollow and where there is support behind it :/
i'm considering maybe getting a pro in to look at the wall, look at what i want to do and see what he can come up with safely.
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04-09-2014, 04:11 PM #17
Right, I wasn't really clear. I meant to mount rope to the chimney wall. In the unlikely event that a single eye-bolt fails it will become a projectile. If somehow the rope detaches it will not become a projectile. It is safer overall to attach to something soft.
A through bolted attachment point is of course very safe as well.
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04-09-2014, 04:13 PM #18
yeah and if my wall feels solid to hit then i'd have a hard time finding these studs ? is there a chance some walls don't have any studs in them ? in all the years i have been hanging pictures and drilling holes in the walls i don't think i have ever noticed a stronger point in the wall than any other point
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04-09-2014, 04:15 PM #19
Don't use the rope out the window trick - or if you do, don't use it for very long. It has several huge drawbacks: 1) It looks ugly. 2) It requires that you leave the windows open - or that you unwrap the rope after each use. 3) Only provides you with a few positions to use as an anchor. 4) Will probably end up damaging the walls or window frame.
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04-09-2014, 04:15 PM #20
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04-09-2014, 04:21 PM #21
yeah it was always gonna be use and put away when done so there wasnt a rope outside my front windows lol and i intended to just undo and move it up and down for other workouts.... only issue was no lower workout but i was gonna use my heavy weighted punchbag base for that.
Was just curious how it would damage my walls in the long as its thick solid concrete from the inside to out and is at least 35 inches thick from inside to outside..
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04-09-2014, 04:26 PM #22
Okay, so maybe the walls will be okay. But what about the tracks that the window moves in?
If it's 35" from inside to outside, you're going to need a considerable amount of time to set things up (without an assistant) for each workout session. If you want to do it by yourself, you're going to need to thread the rope through the window, then go outside and thread it back through the other window. At that point (assuming you've made the rope into a loop), you can girth hitch it. If you wanted additional wraps, you'll have to repeat the process for each additional wrap that you want to do.
I think you'll end up being much happier with the whole thing - and a lot more likely to continue using it - if you come up with some other solution.▪█─────█▪ Equipment Crew #35
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04-09-2014, 04:27 PM #23
No, sorry I'm just making this worse by trying to explain without pictures.
The main idea is not having six (or however many) individual attachment points (eye bolts) with six possible failure points. The idea is to have a single member (rope or steel bar, with multiple places to attach the bands) attached in multiple places to the building. Multiple anchors would have to fail for the system to fail. This is how it would be designed in a commercial application to maximize safety. May or may not be applicable to your situation and comfort level.
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04-09-2014, 04:40 PM #24
yeah i agree my initial worry was the plastic bit of the windows buckling with the pull or indenting.... and the plan was throwing the rope out one window and in the other one as i'd lean out and toss it over... but yeah it would become a nuisance over time and put me of working out..... i should have thought it through but the problem with most homes in the uk is that the door in the room is usually at the far end of the wall nearest the right angle point leaving very little room on one side to do anything.
So it would seem the Wood idea you suggested would be the best way to go then attache it to the wall with multiple screws yeah ?
Now its a decent sized roof to floor probably 12 foot. would you suggest two planks of 11 1/2 bits of long oak board with multiple hooks and multiple screws into the wall to make it sturdier ?
and another thing i was wondering the, the distance between each plank... the closer they are to each other mean as straight on pull and the further apart would mean a diagonal pull into the center.
Would one angle be better than the other to prevent the anchor coming off the wall ?
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04-09-2014, 04:49 PM #25
I think i get what you mean the part i'm confused about is the multiple attachment points needed ? i get that by using say the wood trick that KBKB used it adds more points that the wood is attached to, so for example he attached the wood to the wall with 10 screws spaced out all 10 screws would need to come loose before the wood would fly of and smack me in the face, rather than just a screw at the top and one at the bottom holding the wood onto the wall.
But the multiple hooks part is throwing me if im only going to be using one at a time ?
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04-09-2014, 04:51 PM #26
No i get what you mean now.... the bands attached to more than one piece of wood for example. but the band itself only has one attachment point at the end so it can only latch on to one hook... and i don't think they sell an attachment to put on the end to spread the pull between multiple points.
You are describing a spider web basically yeah ? it comes out as a single strand from spidermans hand ( resistance band) then spreads out to mulitiple parts of the room ( anchors ) so if on part of the web snaps the rest will hold.
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04-09-2014, 05:00 PM #27
I used eye screws which look like this:
But it'll end up being safer if you use eye bolts which look something like this:
They'll need to be shorter than this, but I wanted to provide a picture of what you should look for. If you go this route, you can use pretty much any kind of wood, so long as it's strong enough. Something like a 2x4 or 2x6 (or whatever the equivalent in is in the UK) will work fine.
When you attach the through-style of eye bolt to a board, you'll have a portion of the bolt and the nut sticking out the back. In order to attach this to a wall, you'll need to put some sort of suitable spacer behind that long piece of wood, so that there's some clearance between the end of each eye bolt and the wall to which the strip of wood is attached. Probably the easiest way to make a spacer is to just use another piece of wood. You'll drill largish (say 3/4" diameter) holes in the positions corresponding to the eyebolts. Then, through both of these two pieces of wood together, you'll drill holes for attaching these two strips of wood to the wall (together).
If you want a second column of anchors for some reason, you'll have to repeat that process over again. There will be some difference in the loading forces depending upon how far apart you place your columns of anchors, but it should be possible to design it so that it's as strong as it needs to be for whatever arrangement makes the most sense for your workout program.Last edited by KBKB; 04-09-2014 at 05:04 PM.
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04-09-2014, 05:07 PM #28
In KBKB's setup the board is attached to the wall with several fasteners but a band is still attached to the board by a single eye bolt. Each of those eye bolts is a possible point of failure. If, for example, the board was spaced a little from the wall so the band could be fed behind it, eliminating the eye bolts and those failure points altogether, it would be safer. If the board was replaced with something soft, like rope or nylon strap, it would be safer again.
This all comes from a perspective of if my company was hired to install this for you. Because I can't trust people to behave as expected I have to take precaution. That's why this may all be unreasonable in your case, but you did ask for the best so I gave my opinion.
Edit: Not dissing KBKB's setup at all. I think I commented on this once before, if he is confident in it then it is a good system.
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04-09-2014, 05:18 PM #29
Got ya, i had read somewhere else that someone used disability beams/poles that attach to the wall at four different point two on the outside then two with equal spacing between the end points so it went ()====()=====()=====() and he attached his bands to the pole areas between each well attachment, so he got the support similar you what you are talking about and also had 3 different workout angles because each wall connector stopped the band sliding too far.
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04-09-2014, 05:21 PM #30
yeah so if i get the center of the beam attached to the wall via the block behind to create enough space to avoid the nut/screw touching the wall... it would just be a simple case of sliding the rest of the blocks in between each hook nut connection and drill through and screw in.
At least now i have a few do-able options to work with. cheers guys.
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