Phil on Kai, Kai not gonna make it (GI talk)

[BetaThanU]

After watching Generation Iron there is something Phil Heath said that stuck with me.
On Kai, he said (paraphrased) "he has been at it for 20 years and I am already a better bodybuilder than him".
My first knee jerk reaction is Phil is a $&@$, but really I can't really find fault with what he said.
He is better by definition of being MrO.
If Kai has been at it 20 years already, and still hasn't made it, I'm not sure he really can.
Which sucks as (especially after watching GI) there's no one who I want to win it more.
Unless Phil comes in horribly, I don't see Kai winning, even grapefruit aside.


How scripted do you think GI is? Are they just trying to play up this rivalry?
Does Phil want to come across as the cocky 'bad guy'.

[203mh]

It's a docu-drama, a lot of it was spiced up for the movie.

Phil driving the lambo (From a diff visit to Vegas)
Kai still living in his BK Apt
The 1 point difference

[RoroCwalker]

It took Jay 7 Olympias to get his Sandow.

As Phil said in his recent seminar with DLB, he was speaking about what you're speaking and the whole "scripted" rivalry, but as he said in that video ; 'I can assure you there's no acting on stage', therefore, GI just took that "on stage" rivalry and gave it life off-stage.

[Unbiasedfan]

We know the sport isn't cheap and we know Kai's earlier financial situation, so we know kai didn't have the resources needed to develop as quick as Phil. Genetics play a big part in it but i honestly don't think kai would take much longer than phil to reach the top tier if he had access to everything phil had.

No need to think of phil has a $&@$ since all he did was state the truth, based on his previous 2 titles at the time, where he competed against kai and won.

[BetaThanU]

We know the sport isn't cheap and we know Kai's earlier financial situation, so we know kai didn't have the resources needed to develop as quick as Phil. Genetics play a big part in it but i honestly don't think kai would take much longer than phil to reach the top tier if he had access to everything phil had.

No need to think of phil has a $&@$ since all he did was state the truth, based on his previous 2 titles at the time, where he competed against kai and won.

Good point.
When was Kai's turning point, at what stage did he have access to all the supplements he has now?

[Ryanreece]

well Phil beat kai at the Olympia but kai. definitely beat him at the Arnold Classic in Europe and sheru.

[Unbiasedfan]

Good point.
When was Kai's turning point, at what stage did he have access to all the supplements he has now?

Speculation, but based on his contest history around 07/08

2005 IFBB New York Pro Championships 14th
2006 IFBB Colorado Pro Championships 14th
2006 IFBB Ironman Pro Invitational Did not place
2006 IFBB New York Pro Championships Did not place
2007 IFBB Colorado Pro Championships Winner
2007 IFBB Keystone Pro Classic 3rd
2007 IFBB New York Pro Championships 6th
2008 IFBB Arnold Classic 3rd

[Unbiasedfan]

well Phil beat kai at the Olympia but kai. definitely beat him at the Arnold Classic in Europe and sheru.

Filmed in 2012. Plus, sheru was not a competition.

[RoroCwalker]

Filmed in 2012. Plus, sheru was not a competition.

I remember that, hahaha!

Dreadful lighting.

[BartPimpson]

Kai has been competing for a long time, but that is misleading. Most of those years were at a fairly low level, in a division other than the iFBB.

Here's Kai and Phil together at the 2006 Colorado pro. Kai has made much more progress than Phil since then.

[Unbiasedfan]

^ Dam, Kai's transformation from 06 to 08 is mindblowing.

[RoroCwalker]

Kai has been competing for a long time, but that is misleading. Most of those years were at a fairly low level, in a division other than the iFBB.

Here's Kai and Phil together at the 2006 Colorado pro. Kai has made much more progress than Phil since then.

[img]http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5775/kaiphil3.jpg/img]

I find it crazy to think that that was 8 years ago.

[DPNZ]

What Phil said is correct, BUT, Kai only really kicked into high gear in the last 5-6 years. Everyone can see that each contest's final stages are balanced on a knife's edge.

Kai could win tomorrow and no one would say he didn't deserve the win. They're on very equal footing.


As for Generation Iron, I was super disappointed. No highs, no lows, just a boring cruise from start to end. Wait that's not entirely true, I some how felt depressed after watching it. That's something I guess.

[ROMMYromboid]

We know the sport isn't cheap and we know Kai's earlier financial situation, so we know kai didn't have the resources needed to develop as quick as Phil. Genetics play a big part in it but i honestly don't think kai would take much longer than phil to reach the top tier if he had access to everything phil had.

No need to think of phil has a $&@$ since all he did was state the truth, based on his previous 2 titles at the time, where he competed against kai and won.

Heath won in 2011 but not in 2012 and 2013, he was awarded the titles in 2012 and 2013 but did not win.

TEAM ROMGLE

[Ryanreece]

Heath won in 2011 but not in 2012 and 2013, he was awarded the titles in 2012 and 2013 but did not win.

TEAM ROMGLE

I agree with you but it's kind of hard to tell. Phil doesn't stay on the freaking line. but I honestly think kai beat him in 2013. not so much 2012 though.

[sedrik]

Heath won in 2011 but not in 2012 and 2013, he was awarded the titles in 2012 and 2013 but did not win.

TEAM ROMGLE

I'm about 100% sure he has 3 sandows sitting in his house.
Heath won fair and square, as he said himself talent who works hard is unbeatable. Currently Phil is unbeatable, Kai's best showing(2012) wasn't good enough.

[dylanfahey]

After watching Generation Iron there is something Phil Heath said that stuck with me.
On Kai, he said (paraphrased) "he has been at it for 20 years and I am already a better bodybuilder than him".
My first knee jerk reaction is Phil is a $&@$, but really I can't really find fault with what he said.
He is better by definition of being MrO.
If Kai has been at it 20 years already, and still hasn't made it, I'm not sure he really can.
Which sucks as (especially after watching GI) there's no one who I want to win it more.
Unless Phil comes in horribly, I don't see Kai winning, even grapefruit aside.


How scripted do you think GI is? Are they just trying to play up this rivalry?
Does Phil want to come across as the cocky 'bad guy'.

almost all of it..

[tsiparlanaeht]

I agree with you but it's kind of hard to tell. Phil doesn't stay on the freaking line. but I honestly think kai beat him in 2013. not so much 2012 though.

What? 2012 you have a case for but not 2013. Dennis Wolf had a better chance in 2013 than Kai.

[Dystopia1980]

What? 2012 you have a case for but not 2013. Dennis Wolf had a better chance in 2013 than Kai.

This. 2012 was really damn close, Kai came in with a surprisingly dialed down waist and great condition, you could tell Phil was feeling the heat by his antics on stage.

2013 I feel like Kai tried to play the size game and ended up showing up with his usual bigger gut and in a bit worse condition. A step back from 2012 imo.

I do think by the time the Arnold came Kai hit his peak, really tightened up and looked better than he did at the O. Thought he should have taken it over Phil, he got robbed on that one.

[joly17]

Entire thing was super scripted i cringed at the part where it talks about Vic never having any support from those close to him and then you have Jon Delarosa and him looking at an old pic of vic on the wall and Jon says "sure got a long way to go" or something like that. Was just so fake, the reality is that Jon is one of if not Vic's biggest fans and best friends (NYBB series shows this).

Just to make it look like Jon was one of the non-supporters was stupid to anyone who follows this sport

[JanesLastResort]

>2014
>Still somehow thinking Kai can win an olympia

[transformerchad]

It's a docu-drama, a lot of it was spiced up for the movie.

Phil driving the lambo (From a diff visit to Vegas)
Kai still living in his BK Apt
The 1 point difference

Basically they creating a perception for viewers , Phil being the flashy , braggy , cocky , arrogant , "I never lose" attitude , "bad" guy VS Kai who is completely opposite by being humble , assertive , philosophical , "good" , honest etc...

There have been times where Kai has done so called "unethical" things too Example: signing posters as Mr.O , Pushing and challenging Phil on stage etc.. Obviously the media wont emphasise on the bad things he does , But the media will rip the chit out of Phil Heath because he is seen by majority just as I described above .

[MrHankeypumped]

i prefer phil's physique, so i think all his olympia are deserved.


but tbh, 2014, 2015, 2016.... those 3 next years are gonna be tough for both of them. we have guys like ramy, cedric mcmillan, hell, even beyeke can improve in the next years

not really sure phil is gonna be an 8x Mr olympia.

about wolf, i think he reached his peak and won't improve. + he seems injured already. imo he will be top 5 for years now without making it

[spamy]

No hidden shirt in this movie?

[Ryanreece]

I am saying 2013 was better for kai because he out sized Phil. In 2012 it was close. But kai is NOT going to ever "out pretty" Phil. He had to come I'm bigger. That is his main advantage. He just needs to bring his waist down and nail his conditioning WHILE coming in big.

[BartPimpson]

I am saying 2013 was better for kai because he out sized Phil. In 2012 it was close. But kai is NOT going to ever "out pretty" Phil.

I don't fully agree. In some poses Kai has a very pretty physique.



Obviously he has some ugly poses, just as Phil has his own ugly poses, but overall he looks great when he's on point. Good color, good posing, good overall presentation.

[flangmasterj]

No hidden shirt in this movie?

Kind of. After the credits.

[Loastres]

the sport bodybuilding is but a fraction of "being better then others", id say as little as 10%.

genetics probably being like 50%, drug use / body compliance 20%, and so many other things to put in the other 20%.

[jpg68]

I don't fully agree. In some poses Kai has a very pretty physique.



Obviously he has some ugly poses, just as Phil has his own ugly poses, but overall he looks great when he's on point. Good color, good posing, good overall presentation.

I totally agree with this statement. I think Kai's physique flows a lot better than Phil's.

[unique1]

As for Generation Iron, I was super disappointed. No highs, no lows, just a boring cruise from start to end. Wait that's not entirely true, I some how felt depressed after watching it. That's something I guess.

Watching Branch get bucked off the horse, was one of the funniest scenes I've ever seen on film.