Pro-Israeli argument

[spadelexus]

There doesn't appear to have been a suicide bomb for 6 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...uicide_attacks

Nowadays, the Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza see more currency in increasing international awareness of their situation via boycott divestment and sanctions (BDS).

They're winning.

If you read one of my following posts I addressed the suicide bombings, and the boycott is creating layoffs in Israeli factories where Palestinians work, thus making them unemployed. I'm sure the families of those laid off are really thanking BDS.

I will say that the Pallys have always been better at PR, making themselves look like the poor weak underdogs to gather international support. Their leaders are corrupt so the money gets lost trickling down keeping their people looking poor and weak so the international sympathy cycle continues. Arafat stole a billion dollars and hid it. Trust me when I say that his replacements are not much better.

[Jaccogo]

My guess is your second generation Palestinian and your thinking just like the Gazans who have a chitty choice for leaders so your trying to legitimize an organization run by vampires, since you have no other voice for your people.

I identify as American. If you want to get technical I'm Italian and Swedish *******.

Also funny how Hamas can't be seen in a better light bcus of its humanitarian efforts, but IDF can. Also, if someone commits mass rape and murder and then stops, it doesn't make them not guilty of those things. And if they stole from their victims too, then even years later once they are caught, they must compensate who they stole from.

[Jaccogo]

If you read one of my following posts I addressed the suicide bombings, and the boycott is creating layoffs in Israeli factories where Palestinians work, thus making them unemployed. I'm sure the families of those laid off are really thanking BDS.

I will say that the Pallys have always been better at PR, making themselves look like the poor weak underdogs to gather international support. Their leaders are corrupt so the money gets lost trickling down keeping their people looking poor and weak so the international sympathy cycle continues. Arafat stole a billion dollars and hid it. Trust me when I say that his replacements are not much better.

Israel has America spamming its newsfeed with pro-israel articles, and Palestine has better PR?

[spadelexus]

Israel has America spamming its newsfeed with pro-israel articles, and Palestine has better PR?

Yes. Your OP is a perfect example....

[Jaccogo]

Yes. Your OP is a perfect example....

You realize I got the impression that Hamas wasn't evil from reading American/british articles and wikipedia? Nothing I read was funded by Hamas, as far as I know.

[spadelexus]

I identify as American. If you want to get technical I'm Italian and Swedish *******.

Also funny how Hamas can't be seen in a better light bcus of its humanitarian efforts, but IDF can. Also, if someone commits mass rape and murder and then stops, it doesn't make them not guilty of those things. And if they stole from their victims too, then even years later once they are caught, they must compensate who they stole from.

Ahhh. Must have been the lighting, you looked darker in your avi.

You still aren't getting it. Hamas is training its children to blow themselves up. Did you see the photo I posted of a baby with a suicide belt? Just search 'Hamas suicide children' or something like, there are plenty of photos.

EDIT: Here....








If you support a group that encourages its children to 'sacrifice' themselves for its cause by blowing themselves up while killing innocent civilians, than I am sorry, you do not have the intelligence, empathy, or compassion needed to understand this conflict.

"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."

[Jaccogo]

When was the last time the Hamas government ordered a child to go into Israeli land and blow themselves up with a bomb? Do you have any dates and names?

[Krypt0nite]

When was the last time the Hamas government ordered a child to go into Israeli land and blow themselves up with a bomb? Do you have any dates and names?

You can google that yourself jerk. No one should bother answering any of your questions since you're obviously a troll, and anything but unbiased, you sound like a Palestinian propaganda machine, and I'm guessing you're either of a Palestinian/Arab origin or at the very least a Muslim.

How about you answer some questions, you're such a big fan of Hamas, then why won't you explain to us how you feel about Hamas being outlawed by Egypt? No Hamas people are allowed in Egypt now, and the Egyptian army is actively targeting Hamas people. What do you think of that?

[spadelexus]

When was the last time the Hamas government ordered a child to go into Israeli land and blow themselves up with a bomb? Do you have any dates and names?

Come on dude, you are making me do all the work for you. If you are genuinely interested in this conflict, you have to go back, waaaayyyy back to understand the climate in the area at the time of the British Mandate, you have to know who the Grand Mufti is, you have to know about the Hebron Massacre of 1929, you have to understand who created the PLO and why they created the PLO, you have to grasp why the Gaza strip and West Bank ARE NOT considered part of a sovereign Palestinian state in the Palestinian National Charter, you have to be fully aware of all the wars that were fought, who initiated them, which countries fought in them etc... There is so much for you to learn before you can even comprehend who Hamas is, how they were created and what their goals are. You have to understand who funds them, understand the proxy war between Russia and the US... There are so many pieces to this puzzle. I can't spoon feed everything to you.

I addressed suicide bombers in another post. Shooting a rocket from Gaza is much, much, much easier than coordinating a suicide mission. Israel cut the head off the snake during the second Intifadah and pretty much compartmentalized Hamas's militant wing to Gaza. They aren't sending suicide bombers because technically A) The intifada is over and B) Logistically they can't. Islamic Jihad is gaining power in Gaza as well, so Hamas's days are likely numbered.

So here is what you asked for..... I don't mean to come across as a d1ck but you have to dig deeper and be honest with yourself if you are seriously looking for the truth....


Leader of Hamas Khaleed Mashal:

Mashaal emphasized the importance of instilling the value of dying for Allah, in children from infancy. From the first moment after a son is born, he said, the Palestinian fathers say “This son of mine is a sacrifice for Palestine,” and they wish for him to become a shaeed, and that Allah will bless him with a martyr's death.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...9#.UyjJvV6ppxN

Hamas Childrens Magazine Glorifying Child Suicide bombers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Fate...ide_Operations



PA magazine highlighting the death culture by the Palestinians and use of children as combatants.

If you know that you were born with a death sentence, and if you go to your death without caring - then you're a Palestinian!
If your song is the song of Martyrdom (Shahada), and death, for you, is birth - then you're a Palestinian!
http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=846

The Pallys are the biggest victims in this conflict. And its not because of Israel. Its because of their leaders and people like you who support them sacrificing their own children.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_s...inian_conflict

[primetime32]

OP is cute. He goes to college, takes a class in middle eastern studies and now thinks he is an expert on the subject. We get one of you every few months.

[spadelexus]

Where did that white phosphorus post go...? Must have been deleted for using gore....

Anyways, in response to that poster:

I don't tell people "don't listen to him." like you told OP not to listen to me. Instead I debate them like I am going to do with you. It is much more effective in getting your point across and revealing the truth. But since you don't want the truth revealed it is easier for you to try and censor me and post lies.

White phosphorus was used by the IDF in smoke shells, which is legal. Here is an article about a UK newspaper correcting itself after it incorrectly made the "chemical weapons" claim.

http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-P...In-Gaza-325529

I think you should correct yourself too.

[Jaccogo]

OP is cute. He goes to college, takes a class in middle eastern studies and now thinks he is an expert on the subject. We get one of you every few months.

never taken a class just have a genuine interest

and okay i do need to do more research i will, this thread was just to get some direction/insight... and holy **** im not muslim/arab my whole family lived in america, and before that sweeden/italy.

I'm not riding hamas dick its just I have to ask questions about hamas to understand if they're truly bad or not. To me thsi is a very complicated issue that both sides deserve thorough inspection before judgement is made.

Spadelexus? Does islamic jihad mean that Palestinians are committing jihad against their own government, or that israelis are jihading in Gaza?

[abcfighter90]

hate both arabs and jews, stupid idiotic people, useless to society

[Stevelegh]

If you read one of my following posts I addressed the suicide bombings

But you haven't really. You're typically taking an small element of a society's ills and projecting them to appear the norm. There are as many Arabs living in territory occupied by Israel as there are Jews. Are we seriously supposed to believe that all of these people are terrorists? All 5 million of them? Plus there hasn't been a suicide bomb in 6 years. Not only that, you completely ignore the facts of the occupation and pretend that Israel is the victim when they are the coloniser. The Golda Meir quote is priceless and full of hubris. The only reason the Palestinians give a crap about Israel is because they grabbed their land then lied about it.

and the boycott is creating layoffs in Israeli factories where Palestinians work, thus making them unemployed. I'm sure the families of those laid off are really thanking BDS.

I guess the BDS guys should pack up and go home and let the suicide bombers do the talking eh? Lets be honest, Israel is ****ting a brick over BDS because its winning and far more effective than conflict.

I will say that the Pallys have always been better at PR, making themselves look like the poor weak underdogs to gather international support. Their leaders are corrupt so the money gets lost trickling down keeping their people looking poor and weak so the international sympathy cycle continues. Arafat stole a billion dollars and hid it. Trust me when I say that his replacements are not much better.

Its not that they're better at P.R. Its that they actually have the moral high ground as their homes and lands were colonised. Because of t'interwebz, Israel can no longer control the narrative and is being called out by more and more people every day for its lies and propaganda. Look at O.P. He's figured it out for himself, much like I did. I thought I was a Christian Zionist until I decided to check out exactly what it meant. Jeez! What an oxymoron that turned out to be! As far as their leaders go, yes they're all pretty corrupt, but the ones that are universally acknowledged as being the real peacemakers and capable of making an agreement are in Israeli prisons. Take Marwan Barghouti for example. Even Peres agreed that he was the guy who could do it, but peace is a fig leaf my friend...

[primetime32]

never taken a class just have a genuine interest

and okay i do need to do more research i will, this thread was just to get some direction/insight... and holy **** im not muslim/arab my whole family lived in america, and before that sweeden/italy.

I'm not riding hamas dick its just I have to ask questions about hamas to understand if they're truly bad or not. To me thsi is a very complicated issue that both sides deserve thorough inspection before judgement is made.

Spadelexus? Does islamic jihad mean that Palestinians are committing jihad against their own government, or that israelis are jihading in Gaza?

Out of curiousity, prior to entering this thread, where did you get your "information" from? Because it was a little odd that you were defending Hamas when many Muslim/Arab/pro-palestinian posters on this board try to distance themselves from hamas. There are threads where pro-israel posters call out Hamas, and their response is "well, why should the Palestinian people suffer because Hamas is bad" or that "not every Palestinian voted in Hamas."

[Jaccogo]

Out of curiousity, prior to entering this thread, where did you get your "information" from? Because it was a little odd that you were defending Hamas when many Muslim/Arab/pro-palestinian posters on this board try to distance themselves from hamas. There are threads where pro-israel posters call out Hamas, and their response is "well, why should the Palestinian people suffer because Hamas is bad" or that "not every Palestinian voted in Hamas."

Republican and Democratic news sites, or rather "objective" websites who "don't have bias" one way or the other as well as some UK sources which randomly popped up.

And I think it only looks like I'm defending hamas because when I began reading about this I don't see why Hamas is held in a different light than Israel. To me They have both committed violent crimes. People agree that Hamas hasn't done any suicide bombings in many years, but say that it doesn't matter. Yet israel did something just as evil (in my opinion more evil) in the past with the invasion is Palestine.

I suppose I also see Hamas' vision. There is only one way to get back all the land that is taken from you from foreign invaders when the UN isn't on your side: use of military. From this angle, I don't view Hamas as terrorists, but rather as victims. Fatah have a good perspective too, however I don't fault Hamas for using military force. I think teaching children to strap bombs to their chest is an act of terrorism, but we are talking about terrorism in response to terrorism here. I need to learn more about just how Hamas went about promoting Jihad (not from Israeli posters on this site, thanks) because it's disappointing to hear about.

Regardless, as of today I view Israel as a country which facilitated and funded the systematic use of terrorism in a military takeover of Palestinian land and has yet to pay for it. Giving up Gaza and retreating from Ramallah was a start.

[TheJimmyRustler]

Republican and Democratic news sites, or rather "objective" websites who "don't have bias" one way or the other as well as some UK sources which randomly popped up.

And I think it only looks like I'm defending hamas because when I began reading about this I don't see why Hamas is held in a different light than Israel. To me They have both committed violent crimes. People agree that Hamas hasn't done any suicide bombings in many years, but say that it doesn't matter. Yet israel did something just as evil (in my opinion more evil) in the past with the invasion is Palestine.

I suppose I also see Hamas' vision. There is only one way to get back all the land that is taken from you from foreign invaders when the UN isn't on your side: use of military. From this angle, I don't view Hamas as terrorists, but rather as victims. Fatah have a good perspective too, however I don't fault Hamas for using military force. I think teaching children to strap bombs to their chest is an act of terrorism, but we are talking about terrorism in response to terrorism here. I need to learn more about just how Hamas went about promoting Jihad (not from Israeli posters on this site, thanks) because it's disappointing to hear about.

Regardless, as of today I view Israel as a country which facilitated and funded the systematic use of terrorism in a military takeover of Palestinian land and has yet to pay for it. Giving up Gaza and retreating from Ramallah was a start.

How was the land invaded?

What land/country was invaded?

[bbbb1]

In response to the person who asked when the last time hamas used child suicide bombers, that is an ongoing and well documented occurance.

People of all religions and ethnicities (including muslim arabs) how offices in Israeli government and in Israeli courts.

OP, it's great that you are trying to educate yourself. Here is a link to a series of pictures and captions that summarize a lot of what is going on in that region and how it looks when you go there. I couldnt find the exact link that i was looking for, but here is a shorter version of it http://www.cohav.org/israel-is-not-a...-pictures.html

I think that the reason that people are getting mad at OP is because they think tht you are more interested in making your argument than educating yourself. Hopefuly that was just a miscommunication, because it's great to find more information as long as that info is accurate. Please check out the link because i think it will help explain a few things about the situation that you seem to have missed

[Jaccogo]

In response to the person who asked when the last time hamas used child suicide bombers, that is an ongoing and well documented occurance.

People of all religions and ethnicities (including muslim arabs) how offices in Israeli government and in Israeli courts.

OP, it's great that you are trying to educate yourself. Here is a link to a series of pictures and captions that summarize a lot of what is going on in that region and how it looks when you go there. I couldnt find the exact link that i was looking for, but here is a shorter version of it http://www.cohav.org/israel-is-not-a...-pictures.html

I think that the reason that people are getting mad at OP is because they think tht you are more interested in making your argument than educating yourself. Hopefuly that was just a miscommunication, because it's great to find more information as long as that info is accurate. Please check out the link because i think it will help explain a few things about the situation that you seem to have missed

are you serious? you linked me to a very pro-israel site with a bunch of propaganda on it.

I think you're trolling, this is ridiculous that you linked me this site right before saying that I should look for accurate information. I'm sorry but you don't sound very helpful, I will learn about the Israeli side of things from... oh I don't know... reputable sources.

And idont give a single **** what anyone iTT thinks. If you think this will be my last thread on this topic then you're wrong. My next one will probably more specific to a exact event/issue in the conflict that I need help learning about.

[Anondragon2012]

are you serious? you linked me to a very pro-israel site with a bunch of propaganda on it.

I think you're trolling, this is ridiculous that you linked me this site right before saying that I should look for accurate information. I'm sorry but you don't sound very helpful, I will learn about the Israeli side of things from... oh I don't know... reputable sources.

And idont give a single **** what anyone iTT thinks. If you think this will be my last thread on this topic then you're wrong. My next one will probably more specific to a exact event/issue in the conflict that I need help learning about.

Welcome to the JIDF desinformation on the internet.
I suggest you do what Im about to do next holiday: Fly to this fcking sh.ithole and find out for yourself what is what. Talk to people who have been there.
Until then I honestly advise you close your internet and never visit such threads again cuz 99% of them are full of sh.t

To be honest more and more I think that the Israeli-Palestinian issue is being overtaken by events.
Face it nothing has happened (2 state solution) for the past 60 years...So why would it in the future?
The West is more concerned about Syria or Iran or the next military operations than solving the Palestinian problem.

[ll ReNeGaDe ll]

And if they stole from their victims too, then even years later once they are caught, they must compensate who they stole from.

But should their great grandchildren?

Israel has America spamming its newsfeed with pro-israel articles, and Palestine has better PR?

Uh, American newsfeed is actually packed with anti-Israel articles. Scientific research has proved this when they examined the news articles that came out during the Lebanon war.

You realize I got the impression that Hamas wasn't evil from reading American/british articles and wikipedia? Nothing I read was funded by Hamas, as far as I know.

Have you read their charter?

never taken a class just have a genuine interest

and okay i do need to do more research i will, this thread was just to get some direction/insight.

This is a blatant lie. There is no chance in hell that you will shift your stance even an inch toward Israel. You already made up your mind. You're not interested in challenging your preconceived notions.

[bbbb1]

are you serious? you linked me to a very pro-israel site with a bunch of propaganda on it.

I think you're trolling, this is ridiculous that you linked me this site right before saying that I should look for accurate information. I'm sorry but you don't sound very helpful, I will learn about the Israeli side of things from... oh I don't know... reputable sources.

And idont give a single **** what anyone iTT thinks. If you think this will be my last thread on this topic then you're wrong. My next one will probably more specific to a exact event/issue in the conflict that I need help learning about.

Do you deny the accuracy of those quotes? If so, you should look them up.

Also, you asked for a pro-israel argument and then got pissed off when i gave you one. I was also very polite about it and gave you much more credit then was due. I have spent time in israel and know people who live there. I know many people in the idf, none of whom have any problem with arabs.

If you want to maintain your dogmatic and one-sided view (with inaccurate and incomplete information), then fine. But done claim to want to learn about the other side if you are gonna get pissed off at the first sign of an idea that differs from your own.

[bbbb1]

Also, you should read this http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel-a-failed-state/

[Merretto]

are you serious? you linked me to a very pro-israel site with a bunch of propaganda on it.

I think you're trolling, this is ridiculous that you linked me this site right before saying that I should look for accurate information. I'm sorry but you don't sound very helpful, I will learn about the Israeli side of things from... oh I don't know... reputable sources.

And idont give a single **** what anyone iTT thinks. If you think this will be my last thread on this topic then you're wrong. My next one will probably more specific to a exact event/issue in the conflict that I need help learning about.

Do you deny the accuracy of those quotes? If so, you should look them up.

Also, you asked for a pro-israel argument and then got pissed off when i gave you one. I was also very polite about it and gave you much more credit then was due. I have spent time in israel and know people who live there. I know many people in the idf, none of whom have any problem with arabs.

If you want to maintain your dogmatic and one-sided view (with inaccurate and incomplete information), then fine. But done claim to want to learn about the other side if you are gonna get pissed off at the first sign of an idea that differs from your own.

BAZINGA!!!

Walk it off Jaccogo.. Walk it off

[JohnsPeterson]

ll ReNeGaDe ll, aren't you Yemeni Jew?

[bbbb1]

Thanks for the guys who repped me. Ill rep back once i figure out how to do it on my phone xD

And OP, you negged me after i gave you a pro-israel argument. Might i remind you that you created this thread by asking for a pro-israel argument...

[Jaccogo]

Thanks for the guys who repped me. Ill rep back once i figure out how to do it on my phone xD

And OP, you negged me after i gave you a pro-israel argument. Might i remind you that you created this thread by asking for a pro-israel argument...

And do youthink that I'd be pleased with an argument along the lines of: "Israelis are godlike humans who can't do wrong, 'palestinians' are disgusting lowlife trash that should burn in hell, as they are subhuman creatures".

You're acting like a preteen going "you asked for X, and I gave you X" when clearly I was hoping for a reliable, well construed argument. You linked me to a website with a bunch of pictures with rhetorical captions and a headline that said "Pro-Israel movement" or something similar. And you wonder why I laughed at you?

What if someone countered your argument with an article from this site:
http://english.pnn.ps/

[Merretto]

And do youthink that I'd be pleased with an argument along the lines of: "Israelis are godlike humans who can't do wrong, 'palestinians' are disgusting lowlife trash that should burn in hell, as they are subhuman creatures".

You're acting like a preteen going "you asked for X, and I gave you X" when clearly I was hoping for a reliable, well construed argument. You linked me to a website with a bunch of pictures with rhetorical captions and a headline that said "Pro-Israel movement" or something similar. And you wonder why I laughed at you?

What if someone countered your argument with an article from this site:
http://english.pnn.ps/

My observation is that you are not willing to accept any form of argument that is pro-Israel, well constructed or not.

And i dont care to go into detail over the internet.

What i can say is i've visited more middle eastern countries than 99% of people here, in fact i just came back from a 1 month tour of the middle east yet again, and being in the security business i've seen first hand how arabs are treated by arabs in their own $hithole countries.

And i've seen how arabs are treated in Israel.



The middle east is a $hithole and Israel is the closest thing to normal respectable life that the average arab can find in the middle east.

So please rage on with this fantasy.

But in the end, who cares about arabs anyways? They are an entirely and utterly useless people on the global scale who contribute nothing and we really shouldn't care as much as we do.

[crowe15]

My observation is that you are not willing to accept any form of argument that is pro-Israel, well constructed or not.

And i dont care to go into detail over the internet.

What i can say is i've visited more middle eastern countries than 99% of people here, in fact i just came back from a 1 month tour of the middle east yet again, and being in the security business i've seen first hand how arabs are treated by arabs in their own $hithole countries.

And i've seen how arabs are treated in Israel.



The middle east is a $hithole and Israel is the closest thing to normal respectable life that the average arab can find in the middle east.

So please rage on with this fantasy.

But in the end, who cares about arabs anyways? They are an entirely and utterly useless people on the global scale who contribute nothing and we really shouldn't care as much as we do.

thats why they're invited to stay in western countries isn't hahahahaha xD

[bbbb1]

And do youthink that I'd be pleased with an argument along the lines of: "Israelis are godlike humans who can't do wrong, 'palestinians' are disgusting lowlife trash that should burn in hell, as they are subhuman creatures".

You're acting like a preteen going "you asked for X, and I gave you X" when clearly I was hoping for a reliable, well construed argument. You linked me to a website with a bunch of pictures with rhetorical captions and a headline that said "Pro-Israel movement" or something similar. And you wonder why I laughed at you?

What if someone countered your argument with an article from this site:
http://english.pnn.ps/

You seem angered by the idea of israel doing something right.
I never said that he country is flawless. I just provided pictures of good things happening there with captions to describe them and also some quotes, all of which you can find on many sources. I would actually have been happy to do all of the googling required for you if i thought you actually wanted to learn something. I was overly polite in helping you and you just pissed on the idea of a helpful, intellectual conversation.

I do find it surprising that the idea of israel being tolerant makes you mad though. Do you wish that that wasnt the case?