Nutrition - Everyone has an opinion! What will benefit an athlete!

[Geo17]

Overheard a personal trainer telling his client in the gym earlier " Why did you eat a banana? You should have had oats because you would have had energy that lasts for longer".

I'm a 155lbs 6ft 23 year old soccer player who always had a skinny frame growing up. It was only since I start lifting heavy, correctly and monitoring my calories that I started to fill out a bit and add muscle (still a long way to go though!).

I'm currently doing two sessions a day in some cases three sessions a day. I worked my maintenance when training to be around 3000 so I'm always targeting that figure on rest days and between 3200-3500 calories on training days. I'm making sure I eat as natural and unprocessed diet as possible. My bulk of my diet consists of meats, eggs, fruits/vegetables, nuts. I'm getting around 100g of fats from nuts, coconut oil, olive oil, meats, avocados and I always try to hit 175g of protein. If anything the fat is usually higher than 100g and the protein can be slightly lower/higher depending on what I've eaten.

I can't say I've experimented on a low carb diet, but I get the rest of my calories from carbs just because that's what I think (been told) I need to fuel my training. At the moment I'm doing a lifting session and a sprinting/fitness session most days. I'm taking in some carbs from the fruits/vegetables but the bulk of my carbs come from white potatoes/sweet potatoes. I usually aim for around 300-350g carbs on rest days and 400-450g carbs on training days. Sometimes I get the rest of my carbs from rye bread, chocolate milk, oats or very occasionally a pasta type dish.

I'm kind of stuck in the middle. My bodyfat was last tested at 11.9%. I need to put on muscle/size but I also could do with cutting up a bit because I've got some lower belly fat that I don't like. I can't just bulk or cut because I need to make sure my athletic performance doesn't suffer. Any advice on this would be great!

The main point though is some people say that a calorie is a calorie and there is no difference between 50g of carbs from a sweet potato and 50g of carbs from candy. Is this just in regards to body composition or does it affect energy (see above quote from PT)? If the body can't tell the difference why do regular posters who suggest to eat natural diets also suggest the body can't tell the difference between different foods?

I'm not suggesting I understand or support one method over another method, I am just trying to enhance my knowledge and my life/athletic performance so replies from those who do understand will be widely appreciated because there is so much different advice being thrown around by experts let alone silly PT's in the gym.

Thanks

[MrBillson]

cliffs?

[WonderPug]

I'm a 155lbs 6ft 23 year old soccer player who always had a skinny frame growing up.

I also could do with cutting up a bit because I've got some lower belly fat that I don't like. I can't just bulk or cut because I need to make sure my athletic performance doesn't suffer. Any advice on this would be great!

It sounds like you're developing an eating disorder, so seeking treatment now, before things get even worse, is likely the best course of action.

[Geo17]

cliffs?

Huh?

[Geo17]

It sounds like you're developing an eating disorder, so seeking treatment now, before things get even worse, is likely the best course of action.

Hey man, definitely not. Yeah I weigh 155lbs with is nothing for a 6footer and I'm working on that. My dad was always quite skinny until he got a bit older.

I just mean as an athlete, I feel like I shouldn't be carrying around that lower body fat. I've been adding in some heavier ab work to try and bring the abs out. I actually thought you meant a food allergy type of thing which could be causing bloating but I had to re read what you wrote (;

On another note, any help on the other question?

[jolanar1]

Hit your macro minimums and try to reach recommended values for micro nutrients regularly. Aside from that, eat whatever makes you happy. Don't over think it.

If your goal is bodybuilding then cutting at your weight is a waste of time/effort.

[Geo17]

How about my meals/food before I train?

Typically, I'll eat three eggs fried in coconut oil, around 300g of potato usually baked in small squares, and 100g of avocado for breakfast. Wait around 60 mins and then have something like a banana, black coffee and 10-20g of dark chocolate, wait another 30-60 minutes and then train.

Would you say that's an adequate meal before my first session?

[eatyourspinach]

http://iifym.com/

[Geo17]

"IIFYM"

Yeah I get that. But I am talking in terms of energy/performance?

What I am trying to figure out by reading through various topics is well respected posters are saying "a carb is a carb", "50g of carbs from oats is the same as 50g of carbs from candy". The same posters will then state that they eat a natural unprocessed diet and not to eat certain foods. I am trying to find out why.

Popular reading and advice from nutritionists, hell even the world's best sports teams nutritionists etc will have their athletes eating certain types of foods before training/games. You'll typically see pastas, potatoes, breads, meats, vegetables laid out, you don't just see any sort of junk put out and the nutritionist says "guys go ahead iifym".

IIFYM for body composition/bodybuilding what about athletic performance/strength training/speed training?

I was told by an expert to get at least 70g of carbs in before training without fail. Wonderpug who posts regularly said something along the lines of meal timing doesn't matter and if it does you won't even notice the small % that it affects things. I think I'm right in reading that previously. Are we talking bodybuilding or is sports combined with a lifting program to aide the sport something completely different in terms of the advice here?

[Domicron]

"IIFYM"

Yeah I get that. But I am talking in terms of energy/performance?

What I am trying to figure out by reading through various topics is well respected posters are saying "a carb is a carb", "50g of carbs from oats is the same as 50g of carbs from candy". The same posters will then state that they eat a natural unprocessed diet and not to eat certain foods. I am trying to find out why.

Popular reading and advice from nutritionists, hell even the world's best sports teams nutritionists etc will have their athletes eating certain types of foods before training/games. You'll typically see pastas, potatoes, breads, meats, vegetables laid out, you don't just see any sort of junk put out and the nutritionist says "guys go ahead iifym".

IIFYM for body composition/bodybuilding what about athletic performance/strength training/speed training?

I was told by an expert to get at least 70g of carbs in before training without fail. Wonderpug who posts regularly said something along the lines of meal timing doesn't matter and if it does you won't even notice the small % that it affects things. I think I'm right in reading that previously. Are we talking bodybuilding or is sports combined with a lifting program to aide the sport something completely different in terms of the advice here?

well if he's an expert you trust then you should follow his advice. Pug likely said that meal timing doesn't matter for body composition but performance is personal. if you read around more you'll find many here train fasted while others like to have a nice meal or a snack beforehand. it's all about personal preference. you need to experiment in order to find out for yourself.

not all carbs are the same.

[AlwaysTryin]

I was told by an expert to get at least 70g of carbs in before training without fail. Wonderpug who posts regularly said something along the lines of meal timing doesn't matter and if it does you won't even notice the small % that it affects things. I think I'm right in reading that previously. Are we talking bodybuilding or is sports combined with a lifting program to aide the sport something completely different in terms of the advice here?

Athletes (TRUE athletes) have different needs with carbs and intake around games.

PROPER athletes generally require an intake of carbs as they are pushing to extremes.

[eatyourspinach]

"IIFYM"

Yeah I get that. But I am talking in terms of energy/performance?

What I am trying to figure out by reading through various topics is well respected posters are saying "a carb is a carb", "50g of carbs from oats is the same as 50g of carbs from candy". The same posters will then state that they eat a natural unprocessed diet and not to eat certain foods. I am trying to find out why.

Popular reading and advice from nutritionists, hell even the world's best sports teams nutritionists etc will have their athletes eating certain types of foods before training/games. You'll typically see pastas, potatoes, breads, meats, vegetables laid out, you don't just see any sort of junk put out and the nutritionist says "guys go ahead iifym".

IIFYM for body composition/bodybuilding what about athletic performance/strength training/speed training?

I was told by an expert to get at least 70g of carbs in before training without fail. Wonderpug who posts regularly said something along the lines of meal timing doesn't matter and if it does you won't even notice the small % that it affects things. I think I'm right in reading that previously. Are we talking bodybuilding or is sports combined with a lifting program to aide the sport something completely different in terms of the advice here?

I posted the link for a reason, there are articles on the site that can help.

[Geo17]

I posted the link for a reason, there are articles on the site that can help.

I had a read through the articles and used the IIFYM calculator.

It has my TDEE at 2989 - that's selecting everyday intense/twice daily.

Bulking at 3288

Carbs 489g
Protein 177g
Fat 69g

Protein is pretty much what I am doing now. The only difference is the fat/carbs. Currently on training days I get around 400-450g carbs and the fat is usually at least 100g-130g. Should I make the effort to lower the fat/up the carbs or won't it make a difference? As a personal preference I prefer and find it much easier to get higher fats in rather than carbs especially when trying to get unprocessed or the most natural carbs. That's my preference but I have no idea if it will make any different in my energy/performance or body composition.

[n0useforaname]

Let me simplify this for you...

Different carbs effect people differently... you may perform better fasted.. or by eating fruits.. or by eating sweet potatoes and oatmeal. YOU need to just experiment and see what works best for you. If I personally ate anything prior to my workout.. I'd puke and then go to sleep.

[Geo17]

Let me simplify this for you...

Different carbs effect people differently... you may perform better fasted.. or by eating fruits.. or by eating sweet potatoes and oatmeal. YOU need to just experiment and see what works best for you. If I personally ate anything prior to my workout.. I'd puke and then go to sleep.

I guess you live and you learn. Due to circumstances today I had to do my upper body workout at 17:30 and I got home at 19:00. Decided I didn't have enough time to cook before my soccer pick-up game/training at 21:30 but thought I needed something to recover so I opted for a liter of chocolate milk. Safe to say I could barely move during the game, was bloated and felt like I was on the verge of being sick before every intense move.

So, chocolate milk is a no go before working out. I knew that before. I just tried to get away with it because I needed something in between and it failed.

[riaden]

Should try a bannana and honey sandwhich.
Gatorade and carb/ protein bar
Strawberry sandwhichs with fruit
cottage cheese and cheese bagel

[Geo17]

I just came across a couple of articles about how the Lakers players are recommended to eat a high fat diet with at least 50% of calories coming from fat and no more than 25% coming from protein/carbs.
latimes.com/food/la-fo-calcook-side-20130622,0,5241487.story#axzz2yhdhg8XT
examiner.com/article/lakers-physician-says-high-fat-low-carb-diet-boosts-fat-burning-weight-loss

It's something I've been toying with for a while. Ever since I started playing soccer at a decent level I've had high carbs (pastas, breads) rammed down my throat and have always been told to eat slow releasing carbs four hours before a game and fast acting carbs one hour before a game. I'm currently taking in around 3000 calories, around 400-450g carbs, 155-185g protein and 75-120g fat. I weigh 155lbs so 155g-180g protein should be more than enough. I find it a hell of a lot easier to get my fats in than carbs so that is my preference. There are only so many carbs you can get from natural sources i.e potatos, fruits etc so I often find myself eating wholemeal breads, pastas, rice. Now, some evidence suggests these carb sources are totally fine, whereas others like the above articles recommend keeping the carbs lower and taking it more fats.

I am currently about three weeks from joining up with my semi-pro (on verge of pro) team to begin the soccer season so next week is the best time for experimenting from an energy/performance point of view. I have quite a lot on next week, four weight sessions, two conditioning prowler sessions, two soccer training sessions, and a couple of sprint/tempo runs. At the moment, from an energy point of view I am fine, but I am concerned about some lower abdominal weight that I am carrying around. I am not quite there size wise, but from a strength point of view I am squatting, benching and dead lifting above 225lbs which I believe is decent for my weight. I feel like I can cut down on the lower stomach fat it's just working out the best way to do it without going into a deficit. My current maintenance is around 3000.

I've got a couple of options.

3000 calories, 167g fat, 188g protein, 188g carbs is what's coming up for a 3000 calorie 50% fat, 25% carb and protein diet. I could even go higher fat, lower protein or carbs, or higher protein lower carb etc.

Or I could stick with what I am doing and go slightly lower carb, higher fat i.e 3000 calories, 300g carb, 150g protein, 133g fat.

I guess I am just trying to figure out my optimal macros for energy/body composition considering I struggled to get 225g protein on the zone diet and I currently am not too much of a fan of getting 450g carbs in because I find myself taking in a lot of chocolate milk, juice or other foods that aren't considering optimal for athletes. Maybe I'm trying to do too many things at once, i.e play a sport at a high level, put on muscle, decrease bodyfat.

Or I'll just keep eating how I am and increase the intensity of my training and stop worrying about the small details.

[razorfin]

dont try get your macros too specific, like you have to have 166g of fat, 180g of protein etc.

use the stickies here and IIFYM - have at least .4g of fat per lb of weight and .8g protein per lb of lbm, then fill your remaining calories with whatever you want. dont overthink this stuff mate.

what level of sport do you play?

[Geo17]

dont try get your macros too specific, like you have to have 166g of fat, 180g of protein etc.

use the stickies here and IIFYM - have at least .4g of fat per lb of weight and .8g protein per lb of lbm, then fill your remaining calories with whatever you want. dont overthink this stuff mate.

what level of sport do you play?

Semi-pro in England and going over to the US next month to play with the U23's/reserve team of an MLS team. Just getting bogged down with all the calculations i.e some days it'll be 10pm and I'll be checking My Fitness Pal thinking "**** I've only had 300g carbs I need to make sure I get 400g because I've done two sessions today" so instead of having some meat with salad/avocados like I would want, I'm peeling potatoes. I definitely prefer getting my calories in from healthy fats and meats but even the IIFYM calculator has my carbs at over 400g.

I got sick in Central America in December and dropped some weight so I've put on around 10lbs in four months, now I'm just trying to cut up the abs again but without loosing muscle/size or it affecting the rest of my training.

[Connor1226]

It seems like your diet is a little high in fat if that is how much you are consuming daily.
I would also not fall into the trap that as an endurance athlete your diet has to be mostly focused on carbs.
What I have done as a full and half marathoner is I just keep track of my macros and adjust accordingly. I don't eat 300g of carbs per day just because someone tells me I should. If I'm eating 200g per day and feeling great, I stick to what is working well for me. So I recommend just going based on feel. Your body will let you know if you are missing something.

There is a massive difference in the different macros and where they come. Carbs that are considered complex are paired with more whole grains and fiber which changes digestion and absorption. You will always be better off with 50g of carbs from a potato than from candy. There is a reason why these carbs are called complex carbs. They are made of usually 3 or more sugars and arranged in a more complex manner which means it takes longer for your body to break it down and turn it into basic glucose molecules for energy. Thus meaning they don't cause blood sugar spikes and crashes and result in longer lasting energy.

I would also argue with the trainer though (as I likely would most trainers since I have met very few that actually know a damn thing about exercise and nutrition) about the banana vs. the oats. It takes several hours for what you eat to be completely utilized for energy provided that your glycogen levels are normal. So I'd argue really the pre-workout meal isn't helping much at all with energy for a workout. But that's just me.
I can get up and run 15 miles on an empty stomach as well as I can after eating a full breakfast. Could be just me, but I don't always buy into the fact that eating just prior to exercise matters. In fact for endurance athletes I would argue you should be training your body to utilize fat stores for energy rather than glycogen (for bodybuilders this won't be the case). Exercising while low on glycogen helps this ability. At least I know of many great marathoners that train via that method of running while fasted.

Bottom line:
Find out what works for you and stick with it.

[Geo17]

Thanks. I guess I just need to find the balance. Looking at my food diaries I've been having a relatively high fat AND high carb diet averaging around 100g of fat a day and 400-450g of carbs a day which where I may have been going wrong in terms of body composition. For example, today it's 1:20pm, I'm not training however my breakfast was 728 calories, Fat 57g, Carbs 6g and Protein 47g which consisted of Ground Beef, Cashews and Coconut oil in my black coffee. So it's a hell of a lot easier to fill up on fat however I just need to strike the balance.

[Geo17]

Rest day today so thought I would try going higher fat and lower carb. It went something like this:

Breakfast: Cashew Nuts
Ground Beef
Wild Lettuce
Black Coffee with 10g Coconut Oil

Lunch: 3 Poached Eggs
White Potatos
3 Lean pieces of Bacon
2 slices of seeded bread

Snack: Banana

Dinner: Wholewheat Spaghetti
Avocado
Ground Beef
Small Tomatoes / 100ml Red Wine for sauce
Kale with olive oil

Total Calories: 3,243
Carbs: 218g
Protein: 189g
Fat: 179g

Even though I enjoy eating like this, I think the best thing is to stick with what I am doing and if I am concerned that I am putting on too much body fat then I should just keep it at 3000 calories. The only thing I struggle with when getting in excess of 400g carbs is trying to get it all from natural sources but I am sure you can't go too wrong with rice, fruits and wholewheat pastas etc.

[Connor1226]

I'm concerned for your heart health with a diet that high in fat. Especially when it's paired with high carb. Be careful. Very bad combo if you want to live a long, healthy life.

[WonderPug]

I'm concerned for your heart health with a diet that high in fat.

Please don't post this type of utter nonsense.

[Geo17]

Please don't post this type of utter nonsense.

Pug, you're the one of them main men around here. I am intent on setting macros to make sure that at the very least I'm not loosing weight with all the training (weights, conditioning, soccer) I am doing.

Do you see any reason to change my macros which I've been following for the last four months? Usually 400-500g carbs, 160-200g protein, 75-120g fats? I know I've gone on about some fat I've put on, but I guess that can be expected since I was around 144lbs after getting sick in Central America. 10-11lbs in three months is pretty good and I have put muscle on, and when you look at that figure 10/11lbs I think I've done pretty well not to put on more fat.

I can conclude from my time here that the only thing that the food I eat affects is my energy, health and not body composition although there are others on different forums who disagree. My take away is, eat as fresh and natural as possible, and if I need to get the rest of my carbs from something like pasta, rice or bread then it doesn't matter.

[Geo17]

I've been getting tired of working out macros and weighing/counting calories all day. Been doing it religiously since September 2013.

Decided and started today to scrap that. I am going to continue to eat healthy, fresh, non processed foods as much as possible. Some days I may hit my calorie requirement, other days I may not. I weigh myself everytime I go into the gym so as long as I am not loosing weight then all is good. I think calculators can be pretty unreliable in terms of energy expenditure anyway. It will inevitability lead me to having less carbs (200-350g) and more fats but I prefer that anyway. Just because I lift and train for soccer doesn't mean that I need a specific amount of carbs if I am feeling good without counting.

This was my diet today.

Breakfast: Sirloin Steak, Almonds, Cashews, Plum, Blueberries, Banana

Post training: Chocolate Milk

Lunch: Grilled Pork Kebabs, Long grain/wild rice, Spinach, with two slices of lean bacon/pitta bread to start

Dinner: Lean Ground Beef, Sweet Potato, 3 eggs scrambled in coconut oil, Fresh Mozzarella, Avocado, Cashews

I honestly don't know how many calories this is, it's probably somewhere between 2000-3000, but I like eating like that and just because some calculator tells me I need 412g carbs everyday doesn't mean that's what I actually need. Gonna keep the protein high probably average 155g-200g, keep the fats high, get a decent portion of carbs in and I should be fine.

[AlwaysTryin]

I've been getting tired of working out macros and weighing/counting calories all day. Been doing it religiously since September 2013.

Decided and started today to scrap that. I am going to continue to eat healthy, fresh, non processed foods as much as possible. Some days I may hit my calorie requirement, other days I may not. I weigh myself everytime I go into the gym so as long as I am not loosing weight then all is good. I think calculators can be pretty unreliable in terms of energy expenditure anyway. It will inevitability lead me to having less carbs (200-350g) and more fats but I prefer that anyway. Just because I lift and train for soccer doesn't mean that I need a specific amount of carbs if I am feeling good without counting.

This was my diet today.

Breakfast: Sirloin Steak, Almonds, Cashews, Plum, Blueberries, Banana

Post training: Chocolate Milk

Lunch: Grilled Pork Kebabs, Long grain/wild rice, Spinach, with two slices of lean bacon/pitta bread to start

Dinner: Lean Ground Beef, Sweet Potato, 3 eggs scrambled in coconut oil, Fresh Mozzarella, Avocado, Cashews

I honestly don't know how many calories this is, it's probably somewhere between 2000-3000, but I like eating like that and just because some calculator tells me I need 412g carbs everyday doesn't mean that's what I actually need. Gonna keep the protein high probably average 155g-200g, keep the fats high, get a decent portion of carbs in and I should be fine.

Thanks captain obvious. That's why they are estimates.