Help stronglifts 5x5

[Austinriggleman]

I'm new to the forums and this 5x5 program, but not to the gym. My question is I don't know what weight to start with. My 1 rep maxs are
bench: 240
Squat: 220
Deadlift:340
OH press: never maxed but probably somewhere around: 150
I know it says to start with the bar, but I feel like that's for people who haven't lifted much before. But I counted up and starting that low would take a long time to even reach my current maxs. Any help is appreciated! Thanks in advance.

[CJ93UK]

I'm an experienced lifter and I already know my 5RM's in the five lifts. Can I use that?
You can. Just program it so that you hit your former 5RM's in Week 4-6. This means subtracting 60-90 pounds off your Squat and Deadlift and 30-45 pounds off your Bench, Press and Powerclean. It sounds like a lot, I know, but if you add 5 pounds every workout for the squat, bench, press, and powerclean and 10 pounds to every deadlift you will reach your former 5RM in weeks 4-6, and then you will break those records. You will have exactly 6 weeks more longevity on the program if you wait till week 6 to hit your 5RM (especially if you are coming off a layoff) if you can stand to wait 2 more weeks, I'd recommend it.

If you know your 5RM for some of the lifts, but not all of them, follow this scheme for the ones you know and follow the next entry for the lifts you don't.

This is what's suggested in the SS FAQ, and can be similarly applied to SL, only making note of the difference in the speed of progression on the deadlift, which I believe is 10 on SS, 5 on SL, although I may be wrong, I don't know SL well.

How does that sound? Schedule it so you hit your former 5RM weights in 4-6 weeks. Enough time to build in, and allow for consistent progress, but not so long that you end up wasting multiple months without setting some PRs.

[Austinriggleman]

This is what's suggested in the SS FAQ, and can be similarly applied to SL, only making note of the difference in the speed of progression on the deadlift, which I believe is 10 on SS, 5 on SL, although I may be wrong, I don't know SL well.

How does that sound? Schedule it so you hit your former 5RM weights in 4-6 weeks. Enough time to build in, and allow for consistent progress, but not so long that you end up wasting multiple months without setting some PRs.

That is applied to a 5 rep max not a 1 rep max. Is there a way to figure my 5 rep max without actually maxing? And also the Ss program is 3x5. The stronglifts is 5x5 . So I'm not sure.

[CJ93UK]

That is applied to a 5 rep max not a 1 rep max. Is there a way to figure my 5 rep max without actually maxing? And also the Ss program is 3x5. The stronglifts is 5x5 . So I'm not sure.

You could potentially use the regular calculations, multiplication by 0.86 is the most common figure to figure out 5RM from 1RM, but other than this, there's no other way to figure your 5RM more accurately without you trying for it, or using another RM with calculation to try to get a more accurate figure. By that calculation, your bench 5RM is around 205. Keep in mind, the figures don't have to be perfectly accurate, if you wanna be safe, just bring em down another 10-15-20 pounds, it'll only mean an extra 1-2 weeks working under your previous maxes in the worst case scenario.

When figuring your starting weights, there's no downside to going lower, just a couple extra weeks where you get to work on form, and build in ready to break some PRs. Keeping this in mind, you say SS is 3x5, SL is 5x5, this shouldn't make the most substantial difference here, again, maybe drop your starting weights by 10-15 pounds or so from the calculation, and you'll be fine. Bottom line, if you use the calculations, then just start a little lower, you shouldn't have a problem. You're not gonna **** everything up by reaching your previous maxes in 4-5 weeks, nor will you if you hit them in 8-9 weeks, you've got a very large time frame to hit, basically anything over 3-4 weeks and you should be fine, so if you take off the projected rate for 4-6 weeks, and then a few more pounds for safety, it should be low enough to work, even if the calculations are a way off.

[Austinriggleman]

You could potentially use the regular calculations, multiplication by 0.86 is the most common figure to figure out 5RM from 1RM, but other than this, there's no other way to figure your 5RM more accurately without you trying for it, or using another RM with calculation to try to get a more accurate figure. By that calculation, your bench 5RM is around 205. Keep in mind, the figures don't have to be perfectly accurate, if you wanna be safe, just bring em down another 10-15-20 pounds, it'll only mean an extra 1-2 weeks working under your previous maxes in the worst case scenario.

When figuring your starting weights, there's no downside to going lower, just a couple extra weeks where you get to work on form, and build in ready to break some PRs. Keeping this in mind, you say SS is 3x5, SL is 5x5, this shouldn't make the most substantial difference here, again, maybe drop your starting weights by 10-15 pounds or so from the calculation, and you'll be fine. Bottom line, if you use the calculations, then just start a little lower, you shouldn't have a problem. You're not gonna **** everything up by reaching your previous maxes in 4-5 weeks, nor will you if you hit them in 8-9 weeks, you've got a very large time frame to hit, basically anything over 3-4 weeks and you should be fine, so if you take off the projected rate for 4-6 weeks, and then a few more pounds for safety, it should be low enough to work, even if the calculations are a way off.

So I've done the math got my 5 rep maxs, and done the calculations to see why weight I would need to be hitting my 5 rep maxs at week 6.and this is what I think it should look like.What do you think?

Strong lifts 5x5

Bench 1 rep max-240
Bench 5 rep max-205
Squat 1 rep max-220
Squat 5 rep max-190
Deadlift 1 rep max-340
Deadlift 5 rep max-290
OH press 1 rep max-150
OH press 5 rep max-120
Row 1 rep max-185
Row 5 rep max-155
-------------------------------
Starting weight for week 1( hitting 5 rep maxs on week 6)
Bench-135
Squat-100
Deadlift-230
OH press-90
Row-125

[CJ93UK]

So I've done the math got my 5 rep maxs, and done the calculations to see why weight I would need to be hitting my 5 rep maxs at week 6.and this is what I think it should look like.What do you think?

Strong lifts 5x5

Bench 1 rep max-240
Bench 5 rep max-205
Squat 1 rep max-220
Squat 5 rep max-190
Deadlift 1 rep max-340
Deadlift 5 rep max-290
OH press 1 rep max-150
OH press 5 rep max-120
Row 1 rep max-185
Row 5 rep max-155
-------------------------------
Starting weight for week 1( hitting 5 rep maxs on week 6)
Bench-135
Squat-100
Deadlift-230
OH press-90
Row-125

Top part sounds good.

Bench, predicted 5RM at 205, start at 135, add 5 pounds a workout, 6 bench lifts a month, that'll be 30 a month, it'll be 2-3 months (9-10 weeks) before you hit 205. Is that what you wanted? If you wanna hit it in week 6, you'll either have to speed the progression, or see what went wrong with the math there. If you're fine hitting it at this rate, okay, it's definitely a safe figure, should have no problem starting at this, but it's also considerably higher than 45 pounds (bar) so you'll be saving yourself about 3 months (12 weeks) of unnecessary time, even at this.

Squat, predicted 5RM at 190, start at 100, add 5 pounds a workout, 12 squat lifts a month, that'll be 60 a month, so yeah, this one's good for hitting your predicted max on week 6.

Deadlift, predicted 5RM at 290, start at 230, add 5 pounds a workout, 6 deadlift lifts a month, be at 290 after 2 months (8 weeks) at that rate, or after 1 month (4 weeks) if you go at 10 pounds per session. Or you can go at 7.5 pounds and hit it on week 6, if that's what you're aiming for.

Press, predicted 5RM at 120, start at 90, add 5 pounds a workout, 6 press lifts a month, should hit 120 in 1 month (4 weeks).

Row, predicted 5RM at 155, start at 125, add 5 pounds a workout, 6 row lifts a month, hit 155 in 1 month (4 weeks).

So yeah, top part looks good. As for the rest, you'll see most of them are closer to the 4 week mark, deadlift will vary depending on the rate, but for some reason your bench is going on for 9-10 weeks before you hit your predicted max. If that's how you wanna go about it, no problem with starting lower, especially if you think bench is 1 where you'll benefit from starting lower. If it's a miscalculation, then you know what to do, it's at the same frequency and rate of progression as the press and row, so you'd wanna start at 175 to go for 4 weeks, 160 to go for 6, so on.

[Austinriggleman]

Top part sounds good.

Bench, predicted 5RM at 205, start at 135, add 5 pounds a workout, 6 bench lifts a month, that'll be 30 a month, it'll be 2-3 months (9-10 weeks) before you hit 205. Is that what you wanted? If you wanna hit it in week 6, you'll either have to speed the progression, or see what went wrong with the math there. If you're fine hitting it at this rate, okay, it's definitely a safe figure, should have no problem starting at this, but it's also considerably higher than 45 pounds (bar) so you'll be saving yourself about 3 months (12 weeks) of unnecessary time, even at this.

Squat, predicted 5RM at 190, start at 100, add 5 pounds a workout, 12 squat lifts a month, that'll be 60 a month, so yeah, this one's good for hitting your predicted max on week 6.

Deadlift, predicted 5RM at 290, start at 230, add 5 pounds a workout, 6 deadlift lifts a month, be at 290 after 2 months (8 weeks) at that rate, or after 1 month (4 weeks) if you go at 10 pounds per session. Or you can go at 7.5 pounds and hit it on week 6, if that's what you're aiming for.

Press, predicted 5RM at 120, start at 90, add 5 pounds a workout, 6 press lifts a month, should hit 120 in 1 month (4 weeks).

Row, predicted 5RM at 155, start at 125, add 5 pounds a workout, 6 row lifts a month, hit 155 in 1 month (4 weeks).

So yeah, top part looks good. As for the rest, you'll see most of them are closer to the 4 week mark, deadlift will vary depending on the rate, but for some reason your bench is going on for 9-10 weeks before you hit your predicted max. If that's how you wanna go about it, no problem with starting lower, especially if you think bench is 1 where you'll benefit from starting lower. If it's a miscalculation, then you know what to do, it's at the same frequency and rate of progression as the press and row, so you'd wanna start at 175 to go for 4 weeks, 160 to go for 6, so on.

I was adding 10 lbs for bench, I was thinking you benched twice..Do you think I would make the most gains from starting say 160 on bench,100 on squat, and 210 deadlift , 125 row , 80 on press. That way everything should be at 6 weeks. I feel 6 weeks is a pretty good range of hitting your maxes. Everything that I have read of this workout says to milk it as long as you can do you think I should subtract more weight at go for 8 weeks? I add this stuff up and re read it and have no idea how I got it.. But I think it's correct this time. I added it up and 155-125=30./.6 weeks is 5. So that calculation should be correct... I think.

[CJ93UK]

I was adding 10 lbs for bench, I was thinking you benched twice..Do you think I would make the most gains from starting say 160 on bench,100 on squat, and 210 deadlift , 125 row , 80 on press. That way everything should be at 6 weeks. I feel 6 weeks is a pretty good range of hitting your maxes. Everything that I have read of this workout says to milk it as long as you can do you think I should subtract more weight at go for 8 weeks? I add this stuff up and re read it and have no idea how I got it.. But I think it's correct this time. I added it up and 155-125=30./.6 weeks is 5. So that calculation should be correct... I think.

That'll put almost everything at around 5-6 weeks, so you're good on that. The row is 5 pounds per workout, 6 workouts a month, start at 125, so you'll hit 155 in 1 month (4 weeks) but that's the only 1. If you want it to be 6 weeks, 110 is the place, you'll add 5 pounds every workout, 15 pounds every 2 weeks, so 6 weeks will have you adding 45, 110 to 155. Even with that, I say it's all decent, worth a try.

If you eat at a large surplus, gain weight like you're supposed to, lift hard, and heavy, you're gonna push your maxes far beyond what they are now on this program. There's definitely a limit in how low you wanna go, the point of this program is to get your strength up and hit new numbers, you don't wanna spend the entirety of the program doing what you've done in the past. Starting low is good, starting too low is negative. I'll give you a quick example, I ran SS. Before SS, I used to struggle to squat 3x5@155, my form went off, I couldn't do it correctly, my max 3x5 was probably a few pounds above that at best. I started at 90, 5 pounds per workout, gave me just under 4 weeks before I reached 155. Now I'm at 3x5@350, and still going up by 5 pounds per workout. I started, hit my maxes early, and I've soared through them. My previous max was close to 155, yet my 1st reset wasn't until well over 100 pounds over that.

My deadlift, previous max didn't even exist, I'd never deadlifted before, all I remember was struggling with 225, to the point where I couldn't get it off the floor. I hit 225 in just over a month in, and I've never had to reset. My dead is now pushing 500, going up by 5 pounds per workout, and I've been able to keep this up for 275+ pounds over what I wasn't capable of earlier. Bottom line, even at your numbers, if you do things right, 4-6 weeks should be plenty of time. I, with no prior experience, and where I needed the form practice, hit most of my previous maxes in a month, and I've seen great progress for months continually afterwards.

If you wanna go at 8 weeks, that's fine, but if you're already strong on form, and you know you'll be able to do that weight for 6 weeks minimum without issue, then it should be more than enough. Most people will tell you to start lower than higher, and if you're unsure, start lower, but I'm putting in the example that even 4 weeks was enough for me to be able to then double some of my maxes. If you're good on form, then the time you wanna take building up is potentially reduced further. If you go 6 weeks, you're probably safe, if you wanna go 8 and really assure yourself, do so, but I wouldn't push it much further than that. Remember, if you do everything right, you should have a long, consistent progress on your lifts even once you've risen above your previous maxes. These are beginner programs, some of the reason behind the build up is to suit that, lifters who need to work on their form, lifts they probably haven't ever done before, among other reasons. I'll leave it with a quote from SL.

13. Overestimating Yourself. Starting with heavier weights will make your legs sore. Sore legs will make it hard to Squat again 2 days later. Worse, you might not make the gym because your legs hurt too much.

Start with an empty barbell and add weight each workout. Less soreness, and you can better focus on technique. Proper exercise technique is more important than weight. Adding weight becomes easy once you can lift correctly.

As a semi-experienced/experienced lifter, you're exempt from this reason, you shouldn't encounter DOMS if you're a frequent squatter, you'll make the gym cos your legs won't hurt, you'll be able to focus on technique, not that you need it if you're confident in that, cos your legs won't hurt. This point stresses DOMS and form, but these 2 won't apply if you've got solid experience behind you in squatting. Point I'm making is that some of the reasons for a long build up won't be of use to you, so 6-8 weeks is fine, but you definitely don't wanna wait any longer, you'll be fine if you run the program correctly from then on.

[Austinriggleman]

Alright I'll give it a shot! Thanks man I really appreciate your time an help!

[sambris24]

If you wanna be sure of your 5RM there are online calculators

[Austinriggleman]

I have one more question.. Can I do anything on the off days? I have a weight lifting class during school and it's hard to just sit and watch people lift..

[MikeKK]

Start so that you approach your 5rm in like 2-3 weeks or even more. Judging you your bp it may be hard to progress so I'd drop it to 3 sets for 8 reps maybe.

[Austinriggleman]

Hey guys idk if you will be alerted, but I am just following up my progress. I squatted 300 for 1 yesterday benched 260 for 1 and both were in the middle of my stronglift work sets. I just threw them on to see if I could get it. This program works! But I am thinking about changing to 3x5 and ideas?

[CJ93UK]

Hey guys idk if you will be alerted, but I am just following up my progress. I squatted 300 for 1 yesterday benched 260 for 1 and both were in the middle of my stronglift work sets. I just threw them on to see if I could get it. This program works! But I am thinking about changing to 3x5 and ideas?

Ah, the nostalgia. I weren't alerted, just happened to run in this thread and noticed my name all over it.

So, it's been 2 months on SL? Your squat's gone up 220 to 300, bench 240 to 260, this ain't bad, take into account they were done after a bit of other work, and a lot of the 1st 2 months would've been spent building up to your maxes, and you're doing well, keep at it. Yes, it does work.

Changing to 3x5? How many times have you reset each lift so far?

[Austinriggleman]

I don't remember how to reply directly to you but I just posted that minutes ago and you seen it. Haha. Anyway, I think I've repeated the work weight twice on bench at 210 and 220 (after getting 260)both failed on the 5th set. Squats have been good, rows have been repeated twice and OH press has been repeated twice. I don't remember the weight though. I think I repeated rows at 150, and OH at 105. I work at a saw mill over the summer (my girlfriends dad owns it) so the work is pretty intense , heavy logs and super heat. And when my workout rolls around I'm dragging if I don't take a pre workout. Thanks why I was wondering about 3x5 or maybe even madcow?

[CJ93UK]

I don't remember how to reply directly to you but I just posted that minutes ago and you seen it. Haha. Anyway, I think I've repeated the work weight twice on bench at 210 and 220 (after getting 260)both failed on the 5th set. Squats have been good, rows have been repeated twice and OH press has been repeated twice. I don't remember the weight though. I think I repeated rows at 150, and OH at 105. I work at a saw mill over the summer (my girlfriends dad owns it) so the work is pretty intense , heavy logs and super heat. And when my workout rolls around I'm dragging if I don't take a pre workout. Thanks why I was wondering about 3x5 or maybe even madcow?

I think the general guideline is 2 resets in any major compound merits switching to 3x5, so if that's the case, you're welcome to switch. If that's in combination with other symptoms of struggling progression, I'd say definitely look at switching. If you think it's just cos of testing your maxes, or the heat, or whatever, consider if you can change those things, don't test your maxes, get an AC, change the days/time you work out to counter your work, but if you yourself really don't think you can keep going at 5x5, and getting all your reps, on all your sets, without negatives, then the 3x5 switch is a smart move. Decide for yourself, based on the guideline (2 resets), and how you generally feel about how your workouts have been going recently, and if you think you can keep at 5x5 successfully, or if not, 3x5 is the next step down.

If you're only failing on the 5th set, and some of your lifts are still progressing at a decent rate, I'd avoid MC for now. At least give 3x5 a shot for a couple of weeks, see how you do. If you're only failing on the 5th set, 3x5 is gonna feel like a huge relief, and you should be able to keep that up for a decent while longer, it'll also reduce the time of your workouts very significantly, by 4-6 sets, and that decrease in workload should accumulate to significantly reduce your weekly volume, so it's quite a difference, but MC is a huge step down, it's essentially 1x5, 1/3 the rate of progression of SL, it even includes lighter days during the week, and I personally don't think you should drop down so far if you're still doing "alright", just not quite hitting those last couple of sets, y'know. Then again, it is all down to you, if you do decide it's best to switch to MC, it should promise much longer, consistent progression, and it'll make things a lot easier during this summer heat, and that work. Make the decision that's best for your training, and based around your current situation.

[Austinriggleman]

I think the general guideline is 2 resets in any major compound merits switching to 3x5, so if that's the case, you're welcome to switch. If that's in combination with other symptoms of struggling progression, I'd say definitely look at switching. If you think it's just cos of testing your maxes, or the heat, or whatever, consider if you can change those things, don't test your maxes, get an AC, change the days/time you work out to counter your work, but if you yourself really don't think you can keep going at 5x5, and getting all your reps, on all your sets, without negatives, then the 3x5 switch is a smart move. Decide for yourself, based on the guideline (2 resets), and how you generally feel about how your workouts have been going recently, and if you think you can keep at 5x5 successfully, or if not, 3x5 is the next step down.

If you're only failing on the 5th set, and some of your lifts are still progressing at a decent rate, I'd avoid MC for now. At least give 3x5 a shot for a couple of weeks, see how you do. If you're only failing on the 5th set, 3x5 is gonna feel like a huge relief, and you should be able to keep that up for a decent while longer, it'll also reduce the time of your workouts very significantly, by 4-6 sets, and that decrease in workload should accumulate to significantly reduce your weekly volume, so it's quite a difference, but MC is a huge step down, it's essentially 1x5, 1/3 the rate of progression of SL, it even includes lighter days during the week, and I personally don't think you should drop down so far if you're still doing "alright", just not quite hitting those last couple of sets, y'know. Then again, it is all down to you, if you do decide it's best to switch to MC, it should promise much longer, consistent progression, and it'll make things a lot easier during this summer heat, and that work. Make the decision that's best for your training, and based around your current situation.

Okay, thanks again man! I think I'll continue with 5x5 until I stall on squats.. Is breaking good form considered stalling?

[ShredderForLife]

start with 75% of 1rm

[CJ93UK]

Okay, thanks again man! I think I'll continue with 5x5 until I stall on squats.. Is breaking good form considered stalling?

Stalling is 3 misses/fails in a lift, in a row. I'm guessing you mean is breaking good form considered a miss/fail? It depends what you class as good form. If you're training for a competition like me, anything that falls below the standard of the comp guidelines in lift execution, I don't count as a pass. If you're just lifting in general, it all comes down to you, there's no official rule you can follow.

I'd say a good way to go is, not every rep's gonna be perfect, especially on these types of programs, you gotta accept a little deviation. So long as your form is executed relatively safely, and achieves what you consider to be full ROM, make the call. If it puts you in a dangerous position (like excessive, keyword excessive, rounding on deads) or you're cheating on the rep and you know it (like not even coming close to parallel on squats), why give yourself the pass? You're just lifting with your ego, anyone can hit high numbers like that, but wait till you hurt yourself, or develop imbalances, and you'll have to put back in all the work you skipped out on. If you struggled excessively on a lift, to the point where you know you scraped by, and you're not gonna be that lucky a 2nd time higher, why walk straight into failure? Slow the progression, or stay at the same weight, there's no point adding weight that you physically know you're not gonna hit. Bottom line, think for yourself, make the best choices at the time, keep safety, good ROM, and future progression in mind, and the more you lift, the more you'll understand what to give yourself.

[bl1tzkr13g]

Okay, thanks again man! I think I'll continue with 5x5 until I stall on squats.. Is breaking good form considered stalling?

The 5x5 program has worked for decades. Follow it to a T and don't change it. Once you deviate from the 5x5 layout is when lifts will stall more often. Follow the advice of the guidelines and if you plateau, drop 10 and recalculate your lifts. Once you start plateauing several times at the same weight, it will then be time to look into a different routine that is more periodization.

As for breaking form... If you used bad form, then the rep should not count. Not touching your chest on benchpress means you didn't do Full Range of Motion. In other words, you cheated yourself. If you don't squat to parallel or lower, you didn't do Full Range of Motion, and you cheated yourself. If you break form on deadlift, you're just asking to be injured. Check your Ego at the door. The numbers on the weights only mean something to you, not anyone else. The guys beating their dicks against their chest at a ridiculous weight, but are half repping everything are a bad inspiration to your routine.

Check your Ego at the gym door. Worry about proper form, FRM, and completing the intended 5x5 workout. Do this and your numbers will get there eventually. Weight training is a marathon. Not a sprint.