What strength program should I try from where I am?

[ketchuponthedog]

I wouldn't consider myself a beginner to training with weights, but I never have used a strength program before. I have, to my standards, a solid foundation of strength (1rm squat 295, bench 245, deadlift 405). my current program is focused on putting on mass. I have switched my goals now and I would prefer to get my major lifts as high as possible. I hear really good things about starting strength, stronglifts, etc. These are good beginner routines from what I hear. Since I am not really a beginner would these programs be appropriate or should I try something else? Any program recommendations for someone like me I would greatly appreciate.

[magician27]

I wouldn't consider myself a beginner to training with weights, but I never have used a strength program before. I have, to my standards, a solid foundation of strength (1rm squat 295, bench 245, deadlift 405). my current program is focused on putting on mass. I have switched my goals now and I would prefer to get my major lifts as high as possible. I hear really good things about starting strength, stronglifts, etc. These are good beginner routines from what I hear. Since I am not really a beginner would these programs be appropriate or should I try something else? Any program recommendations for someone like me I would greatly appreciate.

at least starting strength has very low volume. if you are not beginner i think you wont benefit too much from that. you can try wendler's 5/3/1

[ketchuponthedog]

at least starting strength has very low volume. if you are not beginner i think you wont benefit too much from that. you can try wendler's 5/3/1

I have a question about this program. Wendler says take 10% off one rep max when calculating the weight but I went over the workouts with this weight and it seems very light. I almost know for sure that I would complete them no problem. Also over the 5 weeks I lift do I need to increase the weight as I go? Is this program basically you hope your max will go up by the end of the 5 weeks? If this is the case wouldn't it be beneficial to start with a 5x5 increase the weight every week kind of program to see if I can progress faster?

[Jorge12app]

starting strength is for people who are literally just starting problem is that the volume is too low, your numbers look high enough, ICF 5x5 volume is much better for you or 5 3 1 which is a pure strength program

[dday39]

I have a question about this program. Wendler says take 10% off one rep max when calculating the weight but I went over the workouts with this weight and it seems very light. I almost know for sure that I would complete them no problem. Also over the 5 weeks I lift do I need to increase the weight as I go? Is this program basically you hope your max will go up by the end of the 5 weeks? If this is the case wouldn't it be beneficial to start with a 5x5 increase the weight every week kind of program to see if I can progress faster?

5/3/1 has plenty of results to back it up. You haven't done enough research.
If you can still sustain weekly gains, then by all means try 5x5 or similar. It seems your squat needs some work.
Programs don't add mass, diets do.

BTW - Starting Strength might be a novice routine, but there are plenty of people who have been training poorly for many years that could benefit from the program. Some would argue that if you aren't repping 3 plates per side on the squat, SS or other novice programs are all that you need.

[jgreystoke]

You are intermediate level in terms of strength:

http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLi...Standards.html

Starting Strength is a beginner program. You are hardly likely to be able to add 5lbs a session, 15lbs a week, 60lbs a month, 180lbs(+2 plates[a side]) to your squat in the next quarter or according to Rippetoe, YNDTP(you're not doing the program!).

Guys finishing SS are lucky to be where you are now, unless they are big to start, or get really fat on GOMAD(gallon of milk a day) in lieu of roids. In which case they end up looking like Rippetoe.

5 3 1 is about the most versatile and adaptable program for guys beyond novice. There may be vastly more complicated programs out there that are harder to program. For even more size and strength for reps(tend to go together) use the 5 3 1 Boring But Big assistance template for size(5 x 10 x 50-60% x 1 min rest for a main and a complementary movement after the main movement of the day).

5 3 1:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_..._pure_strength
Boring But Big Challenge:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...onth_challenge
Best of luck.

[ketchuponthedog]

thanks. I think 5/3/1 is my best choice at this point. My main concern is that the volume is going to be too low. I am use to doing 30 sets a day. I exhaust myself on my main lifts then do a lot of accessory work. I am also a bit concerned about dropping 10% of my 1rm when calculating the weights. For example I currently bench press 205 at 4x6 and i feel as if using 185 for 5 reps will be a cake walk not to mention that is the heaviest set of the day. Also how often do i increase the weight on wendler's 5/3/1?

[superpumphenry]

high volume, low reps. If your trying to specifically improve your 1rms, then you need to focus in the 3-5 rep range, to activate your fast-twitch fibers

[JSNeves]

Read the links above they explain a lot of the principles

Also this should help:

http://www.strstd.com/

[JSNeves]

thanks. I think 5/3/1 is my best choice at this point. My main concern is that the volume is going to be too low. I am use to doing 30 sets a day. I exhaust myself on my main lifts then do a lot of accessory work. I am also a bit concerned about dropping 10% of my 1rm when calculating the weights. For example I currently bench press 205 at 4x6 and i feel as if using 185 for 5 reps will be a cake walk not to mention that is the heaviest set of the day. Also how often do i increase the weight on wendler's 5/3/1?

You won't be doing 185x5 but for as many reps as possible short of failure

[jgreystoke]

thanks. I think 5/3/1 is my best choice at this point. My main concern is that the volume is going to be too low. I am use to doing 30 sets a day. I exhaust myself on my main lifts then do a lot of accessory work. I am also a bit concerned about dropping 10% of my 1rm when calculating the weights. For example I currently bench press 205 at 4x6 and i feel as if using 185 for 5 reps will be a cake walk not to mention that is the heaviest set of the day. Also how often do i increase the weight on wendler's 5/3/1?

Read the 5 3 1 link I gave you.

You do AMRAP = as many reps as possible. ......in decent form for your top set if you are not using the Boring But Big Challenge.

So you might do 185 x 10+ reps in your 5 week.

You add 5lbs every month/mesocycle/cycle to your bench and press:

That's + 60lbs in a year. You add another 60lbs the following year. That is progress if you can get it. You can't possibly get that if you always try to go to the max, and use a training max that is too high.

For squat and dead you add 10lbs a month.

That's 120lbs over the next year. And you try to add 120 the year after. If you can do that, you'll be strong.

The reason you use a modest training max = 90% or recent tested max is that your strength varies several percent(usually downwards) depending on sleep, nutrition, hydration, mood etc.

So if you can do 300 for a particular all out single this week, next week it might only be 285. If you use 300 as your training max, you'll probably burn out in a month. The Russians and other Eastern European Weightlifters and Powerlifters have been using a Training Max or Working Max that is not their real max for decades. It is only 90% of real max.

When they tell you they hit 85-95% every session, they are doing just what you do on 5 3 1, lots of sub-max work. The percents are based on Training Max not real max. When impatient Westerners such as yourself use their real maxes, input into Russian programs, they are always coming back from some setback or injury. That suits the Russians just fine.

5 3 1 with the Boring But Big Challenge is not low volume.

In fact by the third month/mesocycle/cycle, you'll be doing 5 x 10 x 70% of your training max for a main movement and for a complementary movement every training day. That will kick your ass.

The first month using 5 x 10 x 50% x 1 minute rest is just "easing" you into the work.

People who do 30, 40, 50 sets in a session sometimes actually have a few heavy sets in there that might elicit a response.

Many of the other sets are just warmups(good when you are ramping up to a serious weight), or usually just pissing around with unnecessary variations for the sake of variety:

Like the guy who does four different versions of bench in the same session, instead of doing one, and hammering it home with a good protocol.

Hope that gives you some ideas.

[-Lucifer]

See sig. Take a look at 'Fierce 5'.

[ketchuponthedog]

Read the 5 3 1 link I gave you.

You do AMRAP = as many reps as possible. ......in decent form for your top set if you are not using the Boring But Big Challenge.

So you might do 185 x 10+ reps in your 5 week.

You add 5lbs every month/mesocycle/cycle to your bench and press:

That's + 60lbs in a year. You add another 60lbs the following year. That is progress if you can get it. You can't possibly get that if you always try to go to the max, and use a training max that is too high.

For squat and dead you add 10lbs a month.

That's 120lbs over the next year. And you try to add 120 the year after. If you can do that, you'll be strong.

The reason you use a modest training max = 90% or recent tested max is that your strength varies several percent(usually downwards) depending on sleep, nutrition, hydration, mood etc.

So if you can do 300 for a particular all out single this week, next week it might only be 285. If you use 300 as your training max, you'll probably burn out in a month. The Russians and other Eastern European Weightlifters and Powerlifters have been using a Training Max or Working Max that is not their real max for decades. It is only 90% of real max.

When they tell you they hit 85-95% every session, they are doing just what you do on 5 3 1, lots of sub-max work. The percents are based on Training Max not real max. When impatient Westerners such as yourself use their real maxes, input into Russian programs, they are always coming back from some setback or injury. That suits the Russians just fine.

5 3 1 with the Boring But Big Challenge is not low volume.

In fact by the third month/mesocycle/cycle, you'll be doing 5 x 10 x 70% of your training max for a main movement and for a complementary movement every training day. That will kick your ass.

The first month using 5 x 10 x 50% x 1 minute rest is just "easing" you into the work.

People who do 30, 40, 50 sets in a session sometimes actually have a few heavy sets in there that might elicit a response.

Many of the other sets are just warmups(good when you are ramping up to a serious weight), or usually just pissing around with unnecessary variations for the sake of variety:

Like the guy who does four different versions of bench in the same session, instead of doing one, and hammering it home with a good protocol.

Hope that gives you some ideas.

It did. thank you. I've decided to go on SS to see what I can get out of it. If I cannot get any gains in strength out of it then 5/3/1 will be my next option. The sound of slow steady gains sound really good to me, but on my current split I am still making weekly gains in strength so I'd like to see what SS can do for me.