AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part V

[nightanole]

I've been working out for about 1.5months and have been following programs found on here with 4 day splits, etc. After reading this though I want to start like a novice should start and try these compound movements. I am trying to cut fat, but stay big and get stronger (never been a fan of being a small guy).

Now, heres my problem, I live in brazil, and for some reason here at my gym we can't drop weights, no one does barbell squats (they use the smith machine), no one dead lifts, or does the barbell rows.... Can i do these exercises without dropping the weight? squats I figure I can do on the smith, the rest ill do with a barbell and hope no one minds.
They don't have a squat rack here, I feel like doing squats on a smith machine will only give me 60% of the benefit of a squat.

No allpro exercise has any weight drop exercise.
Squats can be done in the smith machine if you know how to align yourself. A better alternative is a zercher squat, which is about 90% a high bar back squat.
STANDING OHP can be done in the smith machine
The row you can just take off a bench rack, row, and re rack it. It never touches anything during the set.
the SLDL never touches anything during the set. You are not slamming it on the floor each rep, if you can, you should be standing on a platform to make it a deficit.

[schoobs]

No allpro exercise has any weight drop exercise.
Squats can be done in the smith machine if you know how to align yourself. A better alternative is a zercher squat, which is about 90% a high bar back squat.
STANDING OHP can be done in the smith machine
The row you can just take off a bench rack, row, and re rack it. It never touches anything during the set.
the SLDL never touches anything during the set. You are not slamming it on the floor each rep, if you can, you should be standing on a platform to make it a deficit.

Good call on the OHP on the smith, didn't think of that, although I'm tall so not sure if our machine will work, but ill try it. thanks Ill be tracking all of this and post my results here at the end of the first cycle.

[ShivaIncarnate]

Light is starting at 8 reps when you know you can do 10. You could define it as and RPE of 8.5 tops on the 2nd set.

Yes for every week off the wagon its almost a 5% weight reduction because of loss of CNS adaptation. However you will recover alot faster, so you might be a 15% cycle bump next cycle.

250cals above maintenance is about 1kg per cycle. That is almost perfect, if you make the weight...

Here is the thing. After 2-3 cycles, your 250 cal bulk, will turn into your TDEE, and you will stop putting on weight. At that point you can decide to try to cut one cycle and see of you can drop 2kg.

Thanks. Nice to know Im headed in the right direction, but DAMN. I had no idea strength dropped so quickly.

Also, from what I understand, added gains in lean body mass are negligible towards your TDEE. Furthermore, if that DID occur, wouldnt it make more sense to continue to bulk as I hadnt put on much fat? I was planning on straight up lean bulking for a year to be honest. Arnold put on 25 pounds of muscle in a year and Lyle McDonald also backs this possibility. What the reason behind your suggestion?

[zaphod23]

I'd like to get my squat form reviewed but cannot post links due to low post count. Any way to get around this?

[nightanole]

Thanks. Nice to know Im headed in the right direction, but DAMN. I had no idea strength dropped so quickly.

Also, from what I understand, added gains in lean body mass are negligible towards your TDEE. Furthermore, if that DID occur, wouldnt it make more sense to continue to bulk as I hadnt put on much fat? I was planning on straight up lean bulking for a year to be honest. Arnold put on 25 pounds of muscle in a year and Lyle McDonald also backs this possibility. What the reason behind your suggestion?

Muscle adds about 35 cals per pound to maintain just to keep it warm, it then adds an additional 35 cals per pound to your TDEE because of increase work capacity.
I dont understand the rest of your comment. I told you to gain 1kg per cycle, and you come back with juiced/arnold who does 25lbs in a year, and the mcdonald method, which is also 25 pounds in a year. So everyone is on the same page. I just mentioned that if you are eating 3k cals to gain 1kg per cycle, after a could of cycles that 3k will be you new TDEE and you will have to up the cals again. You put on 25lbs of dry muscle and you are looking at a 4500+ TDEE to maintain it.

I'd like to get my squat form reviewed but cannot post links due to low post count. Any way to get around this?

Hang out in one of the dozen MISC sub forums and fart around talking about dumb stuff till you get 50 posts. Hell you can get 10 posts just going back and forth about banana shapes.

[solphilos]

Question:
I'm moving into my 5th cycle and though ive achieved good muscular development overall, my lats have had little growth.
I've considered altering my form on the BOR to make my back more parallel with the floor but then I'm afraid I wont hit my upper back as hard, and ive been quite happy with that area so far.
Should I change my form to focus on the lats? Would it harm my weight progression if I switch back and forth between two forms during the week?

[Lewayne]

Well I turn 46 this year and after 4 years of terrible eating and no activity, I managed to hit 305, not good for 6' tall. In May I finally had enough and started doing strong lifts and it went well, squat went from the bar to 150 lbs. I was pleased but realized going up 5 lbs each workout I was heading for an injury. I remembered reading about allpros workout many years ago and decided to try it. I figured after 2 months of strong lifts I could do this little workout. I adjusted my weights slightly and hit cycle 1 of week 1. It kicked my ass but I liked the volume. Well today I just finished week 5 of cycle 1 and I completed everything but OHP and BBR, missing the row by one rep and failing badly on OHP.

I am already looking forward to adjusting the weights and started cycle 2. Sorry for all the text, but just wanted to share my story. I come hear daily to read what everyone is doing or saying and I find motivation from this thread.

PS: I am also down to 289 and have put on some muscle too. I feel better than I have in years.

[solphilos]

Also, I'm noticing from most peoples stats that their squat tends to be higher than their bench. is it unusual that mine is way less?

Squat: 115
BOR: 136
Bench press: 187
Overhead press: 100
Sldl: 95
Bb curls: 70
Calf raises: 120

[jrel209]

Looking for help!!

I've been cutting based on the nutrition forum sticky, where I I took my katch mcardle maint. and multiplied by an activity and subtracted by 20%. I've been doing that and all pro for approx 3 cycles now (15weeks). To note, I've missed more 'low' weight days than i'd like to have. And I'm wondering if this could be my problem?

The problem you ask?...

1) I've lost weight, went from 5'5 210 to approx 195, and lost about 4inches on my waist (navel all around leveled). Which I'm fairly happy w/ that progress so far, I'm concerned it's a lot slower than I thought it would be. Is it that ALLPRO isn't really made for people trying to cut for whatever reason? I normally end up failling on the second set of the heavy reps (12 reps). I usually only get to approx 9-10 before sacrificing form etc.

2) I've increased weight on all exercises except bench press. I have no idea why but since week one I feel I am not getting stronger at it. I've constantly been trying to work on form, but just no luck. Am I doomed as far as gaining ANY strength while I try to cut?....

Here are my stats:
Squats 185
Bench 175
BOR 125
OHP 75
SDL 135
Curls 60
Calfs 210

[Voxmusculus]

Also, I'm noticing from most peoples stats that their squat tends to be higher than their bench. is it unusual that mine is way less?

Squat: 115
BOR: 136
Bench press: 187
Overhead press: 100
Sldl: 95
Bb curls: 70
Calf raises: 120

Wow, that's nuts. My squats and deads are significantly above my bench.

[WrathfulOne]

nightanole - I wonder if you can help me, since you know a lot about nutrition. I just did C2W4 heavy day, and I failed badly on my 2nd set of OHP. I am doing the same weight as the 1st cycle since I narrowly failed it that time. Today I only managed 7 reps of my 2nd set.

I'm 179cm, 76kg, 13% BF and trying to stick to 2102 calories per day, which is a slight cut according to the IIFYM website (I'm trying to get rid of some belly fat). In order to pass OHP, do I need to increase my carbs per day, or just increase overall calories? I am using MyFitnessPal to track my macros, and currently each day I'm trying to get :
Carbs: 263g
Fat: 47g
Protein: 158g

[Pottertons]

You can do it by the book of 25% and 50%, or some of us older guys do it 50% and 75%, with half the reps. Or as stated in the faq, if your warmups are below the bar, just use the bar for 2 sets.

Again to make it simpler, alot of us use the same warmups for every session all month. its not critical in any shape or form. If you are benching 100lbs on heavy day, your warmups could be something like the bar for 6, and 55-60lbs for 6, all month for all workouts.

Regarding warm up/work sets that are below the 45lb olympic bar weight.

For example...

B.O.R
Work Sets - 80lbs
Warm ups 1&2 are 20lbs & 40lbs respectively. And that's on heavy day.

This would mean that if i used the bar, i'd be lifting weight that is 25 and 5lbs heavier than what my calculations show.

So should i alter the warm up portion to just 1 set w/just the bar so that i'm not fatiguing myself by the time that i get to the work sets? Or, (if i understand what's being said in the above quote properly) I would do 2 sets, w/the bar but do less reps?

[nightanole]

Question:
I'm moving into my 5th cycle and though ive achieved good muscular development overall, my lats have had little growth.
I've considered altering my form on the BOR to make my back more parallel with the floor but then I'm afraid I wont hit my upper back as hard, and ive been quite happy with that area so far.
Should I change my form to focus on the lats? Would it harm my weight progression if I switch back and forth between two forms during the week?

PM Jonmurgie and see how he corrected his.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1244268323

I would not switch form. You could however include pullups, since you are on cycle 5 and can have up to 2 accessories.

Also, I'm noticing from most peoples stats that their squat tends to be higher than their bench. is it unusual that mine is way less?

Squat: 115
BOR: 136
Bench press: 187
Overhead press: 100
Sldl: 95
Bb curls: 70
Calf raises: 120

Most beginners are bench monkey's in their buddies basement using his dads old gear. Most people have never squatted in their lives. Trust me your squat will go up faster than any other lift.

[nightanole]

Looking for help!!

I've been cutting based on the nutrition forum sticky, where I I took my katch mcardle maint. and multiplied by an activity and subtracted by 20%. I've been doing that and all pro for approx 3 cycles now (15weeks). To note, I've missed more 'low' weight days than i'd like to have. And I'm wondering if this could be my problem?

The problem you ask?...

1) I've lost weight, went from 5'5 210 to approx 195, and lost about 4inches on my waist (navel all around leveled). Which I'm fairly happy w/ that progress so far, I'm concerned it's a lot slower than I thought it would be. Is it that ALLPRO isn't really made for people trying to cut for whatever reason? I normally end up failling on the second set of the heavy reps (12 reps). I usually only get to approx 9-10 before sacrificing form etc.

2) I've increased weight on all exercises except bench press. I have no idea why but since week one I feel I am not getting stronger at it. I've constantly been trying to work on form, but just no luck. Am I doomed as far as gaining ANY strength while I try to cut?....

Here are my stats:
Squats 185
Bench 175
BOR 125
OHP 75
SDL 135
Curls 60
Calfs 210

Bench is very BW dependent ( you want to rep 600, you better be a lard arse and weigh 350+ and be 25% BF). Im amazed you cut your cals 20% and are progressing fairly well. On a deep cut (though you are only losing a pound a week, so its not deep) you will normally start failing on the 2nd set of 11 rep week. This means you are progressing at 5% a cycle instead of 10%. So you should be failing every other cycle if you are digging deep and loosing 7-10lbs a cycle at 200+lbs BW.

[jrel209]

Bench is very BW dependent ( you want to rep 600, you better be a lard arse and weigh 350+ and be 25% BF). Im amazed you cut your cals 20% and are progressing fairly well. On a deep cut (though you are only losing a pound a week, so its not deep) you will normally start failing on the 2nd set of 11 rep week. This means you are progressing at 5% a cycle instead of 10%. So you should be failing every other cycle if you are digging deep and loosing 7-10lbs a cycle at 200+lbs BW.

Does that mean just continue to do that weight and not worry about moving up?.. Or should I continue to move up by 5% and expect to fail around the 11-12 rep weeks?

Also, should I cut/bulk/cut cycle every 15 weeks (3 allpro cycles) for AllPro?

[nightanole]

nightanole - I wonder if you can help me, since you know a lot about nutrition. I just did C2W4 heavy day, and I failed badly on my 2nd set of OHP. I am doing the same weight as the 1st cycle since I narrowly failed it that time. Today I only managed 7 reps of my 2nd set.

I'm 179cm, 76kg, 13% BF and trying to stick to 2102 calories per day, which is a slight cut according to the IIFYM website (I'm trying to get rid of some belly fat). In order to pass OHP, do I need to increase my carbs per day, or just increase overall calories? I am using MyFitnessPal to track my macros, and currently each day I'm trying to get :
Carbs: 263g
Fat: 47g
Protein: 158g

@13% you cant cut and progress, you have run out of spare tire to fuel your gains. If you are not getting in 2 sets of 10 every month, you are cutting waaaay too deep. Carbs look alittle low for a natty, you could try 75 grams to help with recovery, or you might do great at 50ish (i feel like crap below 100). Protein looks good, i would not go higher. If you are missing the 2 sets of 10 week, i would increase the carbs till you pass maybe bump it up to 325g. Normally on a bulk you just increase the carbs, and fat/protein are almost fixed regardless of you are bulking/cut/maintain. You should think of them as vitamins, you just need to get the mins, adding more than you need will not get you increased gains, and if you are calorie restricted, it restricts your use of humans primary fuel source, carbs. Hell you only need 4 extra grams of protein a day to get 1kg of muscle a cycle. The problem is figuring out how much protein you need to trigger muscle growth.

Regarding warm up/work sets that are below the 45lb olympic bar weight.

For example...

B.O.R
Work Sets - 80lbs
Warm ups 1&2 are 20lbs & 40lbs respectively. And that's on heavy day.

This would mean that if i used the bar, i'd be lifting weight that is 25 and 5lbs heavier than what my calculations show.

So should i alter the warm up portion to just 1 set w/just the bar so that i'm not fatiguing myself by the time that i get to the work sets? Or, (if i understand what's being said in the above quote properly) I would do 2 sets, w/the bar but do less reps?

You need 2 sets of warmups. You could do something such as using a broom or pvc pipe to do the motion, which will help get fluid to the joints and stretch out all the soft tissue. Then do the 2nd set with the bar as normal.

Some of us older folk (myself include) also include a 3rd set with only 3-4 reps of something closer to 75-80% of the working weight. I find 50% just doesnt do it for me for shoulder exercises, so i do one set of 3 with 115 if im working with 135 on the bench, and something similar with the OHP.

The "art" of the warmup is to get your soft tissue stretched out, your joints lubed, and your cns primed, all while not tiring you out for the work set.

[nightanole]

Does that mean just continue to do that weight and not worry about moving up?.. Or should I continue to move up by 5% and expect to fail around the 11-12 rep weeks?

Also, should I cut/bulk/cut cycle every 15 weeks (3 allpro cycles) for AllPro?

Even on a cut you should be passing every lift every 2 cycles, if you are not, you are not eating enough, or have bad form.

If you want my personal cycle (im under weight), I cut 4-5lbs off every 6 months over the course of a month. So i never cut more than 1 cycle at a time, and i try to gain 1-2lbs a cycle (odds are a pound of fat and a pound of muscle). Its just too sole sucking to miss lifts more than one cycle, just to look a little better with my shirt off, and no different with my shirt on.

Personally i think i should just do chest and back, make sure the shirt drapes over, and just get fat enough that the belly never touches the shirt

[Pottertons]

@13% you cant cut and progress, you have run out of spare tire to fuel your gains. If you are not getting in 2 sets of 10 every month, you are cutting waaaay too deep. Carbs look alittle low for a natty, you could try 75 grams to help with recovery, or you might do great at 50ish (i feel like crap below 100). Protein looks good, i would not go higher. If you are missing the 2 sets of 10 week, i would increase the carbs till you pass maybe bump it up to 325g. Normally on a bulk you just increase the carbs, and fat/protein are almost fixed regardless of you are bulking/cut/maintain. You should think of them as vitamins, you just need to get the mins, adding more than you need will not get you increased gains, and if you are calorie restricted, it restricts your use of humans primary fuel source, carbs. Hell you only need 4 extra grams of protein a day to get 1kg of muscle a cycle. The problem is figuring out how much protein you need to trigger muscle growth.



You need 2 sets of warmups. You could do something such as using a broom or pvc pipe to do the motion, which will help get fluid to the joints and stretch out all the soft tissue. Then do the 2nd set with the bar as normal.

Some of us older folk (myself include) also include a 3rd set with only 3-4 reps of something closer to 75-80% of the working weight. I find 50% just doesnt do it for me for shoulder exercises, so i do one set of 3 with 115 if im working with 135 on the bench, and something similar with the OHP.

The "art" of the warmup is to get your soft tissue stretched out, your joints lubed, and your cns primed, all while not tiring you out for the work set.

Cool thanks.

Funny actually, "some of us older folks" part is already in the post that i quoted. I just cut it out.

by the way, you're only 35.

[WrathfulOne]

@13% you cant cut and progress, you have run out of spare tire to fuel your gains. If you are not getting in 2 sets of 10 every month, you are cutting waaaay too deep. Carbs look alittle low for a natty, you could try 75 grams to help with recovery, or you might do great at 50ish (i feel like crap below 100). Protein looks good, i would not go higher. If you are missing the 2 sets of 10 week, i would increase the carbs till you pass maybe bump it up to 325g. Normally on a bulk you just increase the carbs, and fat/protein are almost fixed regardless of you are bulking/cut/maintain. You should think of them as vitamins, you just need to get the mins, adding more than you need will not get you increased gains, and if you are calorie restricted, it restricts your use of humans primary fuel source, carbs. Hell you only need 4 extra grams of protein a day to get 1kg of muscle a cycle. The problem is figuring out how much protein you need to trigger muscle growth.

Cheers mate! It was actually week 4, which is 11 reps, and I did 10 last week fine, so it must be the fact that this cut has caught up with me and I've run out of enough fat. I will add on an extra 75g of carbs per day and see if that will help me pass test week next week.

[noiseguy]

Hi all. Question after running several cycles over the past year; currently getting ready to start cycle 7.

Prior to All Pro, I was doing chest and arms on machine, so this was the first attempt at squats, barbell row, SLDL, or any structured training with barbells. Progress has been consistent with everything but OHP. BP I've failed a couple cycles; squat, row, SLDL, calf raise I have always progressed. I've gone from 178 -> 188 lbs while maintaining 20% BF... all new muscle seems to have gone into thighs and back.

Squat 75->115
BP 95->115
Row 75->115
OHP 60->60
SLDL 75->115
Upright rows -> switched to curls in last 2 cycles, not concerned with progress on this lift.
Calf raise 75->110

First few cycles I moved up by 5lbs at a time... in retrospect should have bumped 10lbs at a minimum for the big lifts with sub-100lb starting weights.

Frustrated that OHP isn't moving, but this was a lift I'd done prior, as was BP, so perhaps this is just me balancing out. I can always make the first 12 reps; it's the second set where I reliably fail at ~7 reps.

I'm tempted to move over to a program that alternates days doing BP and OHP (like Starting Strength) and get the weights higher. I'm feeling like the progress should have been faster at this stage, and OHP should have progressed by now.

Thoughts on getting OHP unstuck?

[nightanole]

Well i guess you figured out that you shouldnt take 5% bumps, since that means a 3 week deload, and only 2 weeks of progression.
Your stats are inline, and your OHP is still more than 50% of your bench.
Im guessing its a form problem with the OHP.
This is probably the best way, most do too wide of grip, and dont use a false grip(thumb under the bar):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWeRuB9uWNE

[noiseguy]

Thanks. In reading the original Allpro thread, Allpro was adamant about rounding down... so 10% of 75lbs becomes a 5lb bump. The caveat I think is that in beginning stages one should be able to handle a larger bump.

For me, hands are next to deltoids (as in video), but I keep elbows forward so I can rest bar on top of chest (per Rippetoe's vids). False grip scares me with this lift... dropping bar on head.

[Muckrake]

What the hell do you guys do for fun if you're trying to maintain a reasonable caloric intake?

I've been lights out on the All Pro program now for two cycles. Passed every lift last Monday. So tomorrow I will be starting C3. I feel good lifting, much stronger than at the beginning, and stronger every week.

But I just cannot maintain a strict (yet modest) caloric deficit. It all falls apart on the weekends, and I've had holidays over the last couple weeks, and everything has just gone in the toilet. So I weigh the same as I did when I started the program. It's easy to completely ruin a week's (or even two week's) weight loss in just a couple of days.

Sorry if this is just a rant post, I just don't know how a guy can have a social life or any fun at all without indulging in food and drink.

Signed,

Zero Discipline.

[BenGmanUk]

I just finished Cycle 2 this morning and passed everything except OHP. (I previously only failed bench on C1)

New weights are:

Squats 170lbs
Bench Presses 125lbs
Rows 135lbs
OHP 75lbs
SL DL 115lbs
Curls 60lbs
S. Calf Raises Lvl7 on s.calf

That 12th rep really does make all the difference.

[MaximalPunch]

Could anyone link me a video of showing proper form of bent over row and overhead barbell press? I also dont know how to do curl raises in the gym. i feel so ashamed because im months into this

[nightanole]

Could anyone link me a video of showing proper form of bent over row and overhead barbell press? I also dont know how to do curl raises in the gym. i feel so ashamed because im months into this

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCg1YxMt3oY
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWeRuB9uWNE

[Joeljones1]

So just before holiday i finished by 2nd cycle, but during my 2 weeks holiday i had no access to the gym so took the 2 weeks off working out. Now that im back and ready to workout again should i go into my 3rd cycle continuing my 10% or drop it down to 5% due to my 2 weeks inactivity? or just keep it the same as cycle 2?


Please reply

[nightanole]

So just before holiday i finished by 2nd cycle, but during my 2 weeks holiday i had no access to the gym so took the 2 weeks off working out. Now that im back and ready to workout again should i go into my 3rd cycle continuing my 10% or drop it down to 5% due to my 2 weeks inactivity? or just keep it the same as cycle 2?


Please reply

Start cycle 3 at 8 reps as planned. If its really hard, do one more week at 8 reps to get your conditioning back.

[Joeljones1]

Start cycle 3 at 8 reps as planned. If its really hard, do one more week at 8 reps to get your conditioning back.

Cheers

[Voxmusculus]

What the hell do you guys do for fun if you're trying to maintain a reasonable caloric intake?

I've been lights out on the All Pro program now for two cycles. Passed every lift last Monday. So tomorrow I will be starting C3. I feel good lifting, much stronger than at the beginning, and stronger every week.

But I just cannot maintain a strict (yet modest) caloric deficit. It all falls apart on the weekends, and I've had holidays over the last couple weeks, and everything has just gone in the toilet. So I weigh the same as I did when I started the program. It's easy to completely ruin a week's (or even two week's) weight loss in just a couple of days.

Sorry if this is just a rant post, I just don't know how a guy can have a social life or any fun at all without indulging in food and drink.

Signed,

Zero Discipline.

Honestly, if you find it hard to maintain a deficit, the solution may be added cardio to compensate for the excess consumption. Perhaps add 15 minutes of HIIT every other day for starters? You cannot out-train a bad diet, but it would be a starting point.

Also, your diet will be a function of your social circle -- I found that after I started hanging out with my "cross-fit" friends who eat paleo, I just tend to eat healthy when I'm out with them. A beer and some salad, with very little crap.

In contrast, my non-fitness-obsessed friends just eat whatever the hell they want, and I have found that hanging out with them isn't conducive to my diet. You'd be surprised at how much influence your peer group has on your diet.

You can have a perfectly normal social life without binging -- moderation is the key to everything.