AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part V

[DuFFY0121]

Thanks for the help nightanole but I'm still a bit confused. Hopefully you or someone else can set me straight, I feel like such a dunce right now haha.

Okay, so for the exercises in this routine (Squats, Bench Presses, Bent-Over Rows, Overhead Barbell Presses, Stiff-Legged Deadlifts, Barbell Curls, and Calf Raises) what exercises are you doing something with your scapula with? I know how to retract/flatten my scapula for Bench presses but have no idea what to do for the other exercises. I could be wrong but I think nightanole told me to "set" it for Rows (could be wrong, if I am I apologize) but I dont know what is ment by "setting" your scapula. I just don't want to hurt myself while trying to better myself haha, doesnt seem productive.

So basically what exercises do I have to worry about my scapula/do something with it and for each what is it that i do?

[nightanole]

Thanks for the help nightanole but I'm still a bit confused. Hopefully you or someone else can set me straight, I feel like such a dunce right now haha.

Okay, so for the exercises in this routine (Squats, Bench Presses, Bent-Over Rows, Overhead Barbell Presses, Stiff-Legged Deadlifts, Barbell Curls, and Calf Raises) what exercises are you doing something with your scapula with? I know how to retract/flatten my scapula for Bench presses but have no idea what to do for the other exercises. I could be wrong but I think nightanole told me to "set" it for Rows (could be wrong, if I am I apologize) but I dont know what is ment by "setting" your scapula. I just don't want to hurt myself while trying to better myself haha, doesnt seem productive.

So basically what exercises do I have to worry about my scapula/do something with it and for each what is it that i do?

Squats- scapula, from a relaxed point, go directly back and set/lock, this provides a shelf for the high bar squat, and lets you get more tight by pulling on the bar some with the lats

Bench press- sounds like you got this one down, get the scapula very close together to make a platform to push against, and the main idea is to prevent the shoulder joint from moving. Locking them up or down is based on anatomy, the bench style, and personal preference. Some like them a little higher like you are standing bracing against a wall and pushing a fridge or couch, power lifters like them alittle lower because limits rom and allows for a bigger arch.

Bent-Over-Row- Scapula loose at the bottom, and full retraction (odds are the same position as the squat) at the top. Part of the benefits of the row, is increasing scapula strength, which carries over for static hold exercises such as the squat and deadlift, humans are very weak in the static hold department. You want full scapula rom. Think of starting a lawn mower, you dont start the movement with the scapula retracted, it would be a short rom and not much starting power.

OHP- I think i replied to this one already. The weirdos that can manage to OHP with retracted scapula, will get major shoulder damage and impingement at the top of the movement, like guys that do alot of leg extensions, its an unnatural movement. The movement starts out in the deadlift scapula position (the other 2 positions are too far back and will cause back bowing/weakness) and ends with the scapula flaring out so you can get full rom.

SLDL- scapula in relaxed neutral position, then pull them suckers down and lock them in with the lats as hard as you can, this prevents rolling of the shoulders and weak lockouts, and makes your torso more like a truck tire instead of a balloon when you start sucking in air and core bracing. Like the bench the goal is to prevent shoulder movement.

BB curls- deadlift position to prevent cheating the weight up, if doing upright rows, its more like the OHP, you have to flare to get rom.

Calf raises- Deadlift position if holding a barbell, or squat position if holding a pair of dumb bells.

SO- setting is for movements we dont want the shoulder to move in, SLDL, squat, bench, curl. Loose for any back exercises or any movement that has the elbow getting near chin level, row, upright row, OHP.

[Paradise81]

Night
what's your thoughts on the butchered all pro that was posted? Im a noob and ran one full cycle of all pro and just ran a 2 week cycle of the butchered version where you are working with your heavy weights every workout and increase by 1 rep each workout until you hit 12 then have a test day. I passed all exercises (hit 16 reps) so I'm going to try another butchered cycle and probably keep going until I stall. I am liking the faster progression but wonder if I'm short changing myself somehow. Thanks

[nightanole]

Night
what's your thoughts on the butchered all pro that was posted? Im a noob and ran one full cycle of all pro and just ran a 2 week cycle of the butchered version where you are working with your heavy weights every workout and increase by 1 rep each workout until you hit 12 then have a test day. I passed all exercises (hit 16 reps) so I'm going to try another butchered cycle and probably keep going until I stall. I am liking the faster progression but wonder if I'm short changing myself somehow. Thanks

The program with 56 hits in 2 months...

I think butchered is great if you want to run it for a cycle or 2 before allpro, its like starting out with the bar on 5x5 and ramping up extremely quick before you start getting into the groove.

V1 is a legit pattern, but will stall out very quickly, you could call it the allpro 6 weeks edition. I do not like V2 at all, people say allpro is too slow in progression, but on cycle 3 EVERYONE is fighting to pass test day, now take that, and just beat people to crap with 20-30% more volume on light/medium days. It should be called "I started out way too light and am in highschool" edition.

None of the programs can be ran 6 months, so thats a bad program for beginners in my opinion. However both programs could be ran a cycle or 2 before allpro with no problems, if you want to start out light and ramp up quick.

[Maetri]

Guys today is my test day and I got completely rekt-ed.

Previously I mentioned that I was on a cut, and was from SS, thus I use my 10 rep max as a starting point. Wasn't expecting to fail everything but my SLDL though .

Test day:
Squat 100 kg: 1x12, 1x5
Bench 60 kg: 1x12, 1x10
Row 52.5 kg: 1x12, 1x9
OHP 45 kg: 1x10, 1x4
SLDL 60 kg: 1x12, 1x12

Sooo, although I am suppose to start the whole cycle over, would it be okay if I deload the whole C1? I figured I might start a little bit too high, and since I came from a full strength routine, my stamina is sucky at best. Thus if I deload everything by 10%, I could hopefully complete C2, and return to the current weight on C3.

What I had in mind:

C2
Squat: 90kg
Bench: 55kg
Row: 50kg
OHP: 40kg
SLDL: 70kg

So my questions:
1. Would this C2 (deload) be better for me compared to C2 (repeated)? Or should I deload even further?
2. Currently am using Pendlays for rowing, and since C1W4, I am having trouble maintaining proper form when super tired. Someone at the gym suggested swapping to T-bar row, any opinions on this? Or should I just re-do using BOR?
3. Any other suggestions?

Thanks a lot!

[Paradise81]

The program with 56 hits in 2 months...

I think butchered is great if you want to run it for a cycle or 2 before allpro, its like starting out with the bar on 5x5 and ramping up extremely quick before you start getting into the groove.

V1 is a legit pattern, but will stall out very quickly, you could call it the allpro 6 weeks edition. I do not like V2 at all, people say allpro is too slow in progression, but on cycle 3 EVERYONE is fighting to pass test day, now take that, and just beat people to crap with 20-30% more volume on light/medium days. It should be called "I started out way too light and am in highschool" edition.

None of the programs can be ran 6 months, so thats a bad program for beginners in my opinion. However both programs could be ran a cycle or 2 before allpro with no problems, if you want to start out light and ramp up quick.

Thanks you really hit my thoughts dead on. I'll run the butchered v1 for another cycle or 2 assuming I can progress and go back to the standard

[nightanole]

Test day:
Squat 100 kg: 1x12, 1x5
Bench 60 kg: 1x12, 1x10
Row 52.5 kg: 1x12, 1x9
OHP 45 kg: 1x10, 1x4
SLDL 60 kg: 1x12, 1x12

So my questions:
1. Would this C2 (deload) be better for me compared to C2 (repeated)? Or should I deload even further?
2. Currently am using Pendlays for rowing, and since C1W4, I am having trouble maintaining proper form when super tired. Someone at the gym suggested swapping to T-bar row, any opinions on this? Or should I just re-do using BOR?
3. Any other suggestions?

Thanks a lot!

You will gain 4 reps per cycle tops, most of the time its 2-3 reps, and test day was an almost guaranteed pass. Using this theory lets look at your 2nd sets, and adjust them for the next cycle.

Squats- even with a 10% deload i dont think you make more than 10 reps on the 2nd set, so lets deload at least 15% if not 20%, and if its a really good test day, do a 15% bump for cycle 3, to tune you in.

Bench- Just repeat, those numbers look good for a pass next cycle

Row- id go for 50kg like you mentioned. The squat/dl/row 3x a week takes alot more conditioning on the lower back than people realize.

OHP- light day is your new heavy, minimum 20% deload. Bench and OHP help each other, but ANY missed reps on OHP will cause a sinking ship as the cycle progresses. Best to be too light, because you will never recover from missed or forced reps.

Pendlay on this program is only meant for people with previous lifting experience. dead stop movements such as the real deadlift or SLDL or pendlay tax the cns and conditioning of the beginner too much with this kind of volume. There is a reason why dead stop movements are only done once a week on all the beginner programs.

The T-bar row is meant for power lifters, it gives them a pull without taxing the back. A tbar row is never recommended in any beginner routine, because the lifter would start having back fatigue problems when the lifters 80% 1rm (5-7 reps depending on anatomy and lift) can not be completed again at the same weight in with less than 4min rest.

[BoB335]

You will gain 4 reps per cycle tops, most of the time its 2-3 reps, and test day was an almost guaranteed pass. Using this theory lets look at your 2nd sets, and adjust them for the next cycle.

Squats- even with a 10% deload i dont think you make more than 10 reps on the 2nd set, so lets deload at least 15% if not 20%, and if its a really good test day, do a 15% bump for cycle 3, to tune you in.

Bench- Just repeat, those numbers look good for a pass next cycle

Row- id go for 50kg like you mentioned. The squat/dl/row 3x a week takes alot more conditioning on the lower back than people realize.

OHP- light day is your new heavy, minimum 20% deload. Bench and OHP help each other, but ANY missed reps on OHP will cause a sinking ship as the cycle progresses. Best to be too light, because you will never recover from missed or forced reps.

Pendlay on this program is only meant for people with previous lifting experience. dead stop movements such as the real deadlift or SLDL or pendlay tax the cns and conditioning of the beginner too much with this kind of volume. There is a reason why dead stop movements are only done once a week on all the beginner programs.

The T-bar row is meant for power lifters, it gives them a pull without taxing the back. A tbar row is never recommended in any beginner routine, because the lifter would start having back fatigue problems when the lifters 80% 1rm (5-7 reps depending on anatomy and lift) can not be completed again at the same weight in with less than 4min rest.

Well thought out answer that deserves reps!!!

[Maetri]

Well thought out answer that deserves reps!!!

I think so too!

So I will start C2 with:

Squat: 80kg
Bench: 60kg
BOR: 50kg
OHP: 35kg
SLDL: 70kg

On adding upright row, can advise on the appropriate number? Have never done this before.

[Arthur2005]

Is anybody here can answer my Question? I follow this 4 weeks program for a beginner all i can say the program was quite good but the problem is after week four i dont know what to do next because it was not stated there..
Below is the program that i follow..

I hope someone can help me. Thanks

[Hadzikic]

Is anybody here can answer my Question? I follow this 4 weeks program for a beginner all i can say the program was quite good but the problem is after week four i dont know what to do next because it was not stated there..
Below is the program that i follow..

I hope someone can help me. Thanks

You ask for the ability to read the first post of this thread for Christmas.

[galtarafal]

I've been doing this program for about a year now, and I've definitely gotten stronger. For example, my squat went from about 95 lbs on my first cycle (started out low to be safe) to 175 lbs on my most recent cycle. Before I did this program, I had done various split programs that involved lifting different specific muscle groups for usually 4-5 days a week (I'm talking about the typical workout consisting of chest/biceps day, leg day, shoulders/triceps, etc. or push/pull/legs). The main reason I started this program was due to time restrictions (3 days a week was good). However, now that I have more time and sometimes get bored with this program, I am wondering what to do.

I want to change programs, simply to get a new, fresh routine. However, I am also seeing results with this program, so it seems like I should keep sticking with it. Recently, I started doing 3 heavy days a week, instead of a medium and light day, in order to switch it up, and I am still seeing results.

Any suggestions?

[nightanole]

I've been doing this program for about a year now, and I've definitely gotten stronger. For example, my squat went from about 95 lbs on my first cycle (started out low to be safe) to 175 lbs on my most recent cycle. Before I did this program, I had done various split programs that involved lifting different specific muscle groups for usually 4-5 days a week (I'm talking about the typical workout consisting of chest/biceps day, leg day, shoulders/triceps, etc. or push/pull/legs). The main reason I started this program was due to time restrictions (3 days a week was good). However, now that I have more time and sometimes get bored with this program, I am wondering what to do.

I want to change programs, simply to get a new, fresh routine. However, I am also seeing results with this program, so it seems like I should keep sticking with it. Recently, I started doing 3 heavy days a week, instead of a medium and light day, in order to switch it up, and I am still seeing results.

Any suggestions?

Allpro intermediate v2 is 4 days a week for 1 hour periods, all heavies but its a split.

[zprestige]

sooooooo just did my test day cycle 1 and it was heavyyyyy as fuark lol , some pointers appreciated

Benchpress: 50 kg pass ( had to do this one first coz squatrack occupied)
BOR: 40 kg.. this one felt heavy as fk ... many pauses between reps and the last 2 reps were veryy poor, would say failed..
squat: 40 kg almost failed
OHP : 22 kg passed, this one felt kinda good
SLDL : 45 kg passed, prob the easiest one.. I only get over knees tho..
barbellcurl: 15kg passed, the last reps reallyyy sloww

any advice on what I should do now?

[nightanole]

sooooooo just did my test day cycle 1 and it was heavyyyyy as fuark lol , some pointers appreciated

Benchpress: 50 kg pass ( had to do this one first coz squatrack occupied)
BOR: 40 kg.. this one felt heavy as fk ... many pauses between reps and the last 2 reps were veryy poor, would say failed..
squat: 40 kg almost failed
OHP : 22 kg passed, this one felt kinda good
SLDL : 45 kg passed, prob the easiest one.. I only get over knees tho..
barbellcurl: 15kg passed, the last reps reallyyy sloww

any advice on what I should do now?

Next cycles numbers:

Benchpress: 55 kg
BOR: 40 kg
squat: 44 kg
OHP : 25 kg
SLDL : 50 kg
barbellcurl: 17kg

Nothing seems out of place other than squats are low.

[zprestige]

Next cycles numbers:

Benchpress: 55 kg
BOR: 40 kg
squat: 44 kg
OHP : 25 kg
SLDL : 50 kg
barbellcurl: 17kg

Nothing seems out of place other than squats are low.

Alright thanks , yeaa I know my squat is still kinda low.. I even bumped it a little during the cycle..

Oh and do I do a medium, light day this 12rep week too?? or do I rest 2 days and go for next week?

[nightanole]

Alright thanks , yeaa I know my squat is still kinda low.. I even bumped it a little during the cycle..

Oh and do I do a medium, light day this 12rep week too?? or do I rest 2 days and go for next week?

Yes you do medium and light, you dont bump the weight till next week when you go back down to 8 reps.

[Rebinho]

My report this 2nd cycle....remember ..I had failed on all of them but bench press in the first cycle.


Squat 60KG /Done

BP 45KG /Done

BOR 40KG /Done

OHP 25KG /Failed

SLD 45KG/Failed (Not because I cant carry with legs, But IM LOSING THE GRIP with my arms!!)

BC 22,5KG /Failed

How does it look!?!?!


AND WHAT CAN I DO NOT TO LOSE GRIP WITH SLD!?!!

[nightanole]

My report this 2nd cycle....remember ..I had failed on all of them but bench press in the first cycle.


Squat 60KG /Done

BP 45KG /Done

BOR 40KG /Done

OHP 25KG /Failed

SLD 45KG/Failed (Not because I cant carry with legs, But IM LOSING THE GRIP with my arms!!)

BC 22,5KG /Failed

How does it look!?!?!


AND WHAT CAN I DO NOT TO LOSE GRIP WITH SLD!?!!

Everything looks inline other than, IF you fail OHP one more time yet pass bench, you will have a bad bench/OHP ratio.

For grip, If you dont want to do 1 hand hangs, or farmers walks as an accessory, you can try to use a hook grip. You basically smash your thumb between the bar and your index/ring finger. Or you can try some liquidgrip. I have hands drier than a mummy so i dont need to use chalk or liquid grip at the moment.

[Yelnats01]

I am on my 3rd cycle of the programme. Due to work, family etc I complete 2 heavy sessions per week with a minimum of 2 days rest in between.

The only exercise that I have failed on is the overhead press - on both of the first two cycles. Low reps on this were easy but as soon as I got to 11/12 reps, I found it incredibly difficult. Rightly or wrongly I decided to up the weight by 2.5kg on the third cycle, as I thought it might help me progress. Today I completed 11 reps and completed the exercises reasonably well.

Weights are as follows:

Squat 50kg
BP 37.5kg
BOR 45kg
OHP 27.5kg
SLDL 50kg
Curls 20kg
Calf raises 60kg

I still feel as though my squat, SLDL and calf raises are a little too easy.

I have attached before (khaki shorts) and after (jeans) pictures (I think there is a difference).

Any thoughts would be welcome.

Thanks

[nightanole]

I see you are stuck with orangutan arms like me. I would really focus in on the rows, and some type of chin up in order to fill in the gaps in your arms (your shoulders look fine). Its difficult to pick the right chinup, because i normaly recommend close grip chins, but that puts alot of meat on your forearms, which isnt what we want. We want to fill in the upper arm.

Hmm... It needs to be a palms away pull that is shoulder height or higher. I would test out an inverted row, with the torso at 45 degrees or higher, aka the bar above the shoulders, but the feet as unelevated as possible.

[EliteEnigma]

I am having trouble with all my other lifts once I have squated, especially the higher reps. It completely zaps me and I often vomit afterwards. I tried to do them last today but was so drained from the other lifts I couldn't complete more than 7 reps.

[Yelnats01]

I see you are stuck with orangutan arms like me. I would really focus in on the rows, and some type of chin up in order to fill in the gaps in your arms (your shoulders look fine). Its difficult to pick the right chinup, because i normaly recommend close grip chins, but that puts alot of meat on your forearms, which isnt what we want. We want to fill in the upper arm.

Hmm... It needs to be a palms away pull that is shoulder height or higher. I would test out an inverted row, with the torso at 45 degrees or higher, aka the bar above the shoulders, but the feet as unelevated as possible.

Haha! Yes my arms are like pipe cleaners! I am terrible at pull-ups and only work out in the garage so do not have any machines to assist. Any ideas?

Also, are you suggesting the inverted row to help fill out my arms?

Thanks very much.

[nightanole]

Haha! Yes my arms are like pipe cleaners! I am terrible at pull-ups and only work out in the garage so do not have any machines to assist. Any ideas?

Also, are you suggesting the inverted row to help fill out my arms?

Thanks very much.

Yes im suggesting a 45 degree inverted row to fill out your upper arms.

[Yelnats01]

Yes im suggesting a 45 degree inverted row to fill out your upper arms.

I presume you mean in addition to the exercises that I am already completing? Should I do this on the same day and how may set / reps? Thanks for the help.

[galtarafal]

Allpro intermediate v2 is 4 days a week for 1 hour periods, all heavies but its a split.

Are you referring to this:

Intermediate 2
All Pro Split
5 week cycle
A
Bench Presses do 4 work sets rep scheme 4-5-6-7-8 Do 2 warm up sets. 25% of the work set weight for 15 reps and 50% of the work set weight for 10 reps.
Bent-Over Rows do 4 work sets rep scheme 4-5-6-7-8
Overhead Barbell Presses do 2 work sets rep scheme 6-7-8-9-10
Barbell Curls do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
Tricep press do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
Hammer grip dumb bell press do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
Pull down do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12

B
Squats do 4 work sets rep scheme 4-5-6-7-8 Do 2 warm up sets. 25% of the work set weight for 15 reps and 50% of the work set weight for 10 reps.
Leg extensions do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-10-12-15-20
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
Leg curls do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
Calf Raises do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-10-12-15-20
Seated calf press do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-10-12-15-20
Add ab work
If you get all of the reps on week 5 add 5%
That should get you started. I would do this A/B/A then B/A/B until you come up to speed. Then try 4 work outs per week. A-B off. A-B off off.

[nightanole]

I presume you mean in addition to the exercises that I am already completing? Should I do this on the same day and how may set / reps? Thanks for the help.

Its an accessory, i would try to do it as frequently as possible as long as it doesnt affect your allpro lifts. Its just for some added fatigue work. Id do it on off days, start off with 1 heavy 8-10 rep range set. Dont worry about progressing in weight as long as you are progressing on allpro. You figure if you are adding reps to the allpro row, you are still increasing tonnage week to week, even if the accessory lift remains the same.

[nightanole]

Are you referring to this:

Yes, so AB off AB off off would be the pattern. It has double the volume of allpro so it should take you over an hour for each split.

[legga]

My performance on bench recently has been awful. I've even switched to the novice 3 sets which I thought would help but nope.

Squat - 72kg
Bench- 61kg
Row - 61kg
OHP - 37.5kg

It's becoming quite frustrating. I weigh 75kg.

Any advice?

[Sader762]

Novice week 4 check in.


Wow, did volume catch up with me today on my week 4 heavy day. I got all my reps in except for OHP, but that was expected since I changed that up a lot. Next week ought to be fun.....