AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part V

[nightanole]

Since I have a very tall torso, and a history of major back herniations, I've been doing my squats and DL's, bar only. Once I get enough posts to put up a video of my squat form for review, I'll be more confident adding weight, but for now, they're just in to get used to the form. Not sure I'll ever be comfortable with heavy DL's, but might progress on that as I gain strength.

I've been doing the BOR's without issue so far, but I notice that most of the guys in the gym use a chest supported machine rather than barbell. Is there any specific advantage/disadvantage to using it?

If you learn to use your arse, and learn to lock your chest down and push out your abs, it almost completely deloads the back and makes it a static hold for the spinal erectors. I got froggy and did a single of 295 for dead lift, after my work sets, and my lower back was sore has hell 2 days later for squats. Once braced, i didnt feel any load on my lower back what so ever for squats.

As for the "chest supported machine", Its for lat isolation for body building, or for people who already ruined their back and just want to look good. I never understood the people with good backs, and dont want to work the back, because it might hurt it. So they end up with a weak back, and hurt it in real lift. It better to do the compounds and slowly build up back strength, in a controlled environment such as a gym. Then when real life comes, you will be better prepared.

If you noticed, most people with bad backs never lifted in their lives.

[zaphod23]

Good points all around. The first time I did the DL's, it felt unnatural. I doubt I was deloading my back as you suggested. I"ll have to take better notice in the gym today of dealing with that. I have a strong core from years of keeping my injury in check. I need to learn to use that more on these lifts.

If you learn to use your arse, and learn to lock your chest down and push out your abs, it almost completely deloads the back and makes it a static hold for the spinal erectors. I got froggy and did a single of 295 for dead lift, after my work sets, and my lower back was sore has hell 2 days later for squats. Once braced, i didnt feel any load on my lower back what so ever for squats.

As for the "chest supported machine", Its for lat isolation for body building, or for people who already ruined their back and just want to look good. I never understood the people with good backs, and dont want to work the back, because it might hurt it. So they end up with a weak back, and hurt it in real lift. It better to do the compounds and slowly build up back strength, in a controlled environment such as a gym. Then when real life comes, you will be better prepared.

If you noticed, most people with bad backs never lifted in their lives.

[Ironmike234]

Little bit more core work, little bit less posterior work. Its not as drastic as switching from a back squat to a front squat. If anything you might want to cut out some ab work if you do a massive amount, as it could affect the SLDL and maybe even the bent over row. Honestly switching isnt going to change anything enough to cause an imbalance.

Exactly what I needed to know, and perfect as it allows me to scale back some ab-work - it's really my least favorite workout. Thanks!

Mike

[shanapanda]

I just finished my first cycle and I passed everything. I wanted to get a clear and cut answer on something though, what exactly constitutes a 'pass' on 12 rep week. Do 'grinders' count? Or does it have to be smooth and fast. I'm not sure if I did too much weight for my first cycle, but I already had previous experience in lifting so I had a good idea of what my 10 rep max was for each exercise. My BP I had to grind out the 12th rep, it wasn't sloppy, but shaky and slow. Same for OHP. Does that count? I did get through today on C2W2 for BP, hard and shaky and slow but I did it. Should I have repeated the weight from last cycle? I get a lot of mixed opinions, some ppl say it's fine to go to 'failure' on 12 rep week, others say to make sure it's controlled and fast. Thoughts?

[nightanole]

I just finished my first cycle and I passed everything. I wanted to get a clear and cut answer on something though, what exactly constitutes a 'pass' on 12 rep week. Do 'grinders' count? Or does it have to be smooth and fast. I'm not sure if I did too much weight for my first cycle, but I already had previous experience in lifting so I had a good idea of what my 10 rep max was for each exercise. My BP I had to grind out the 12th rep, it wasn't sloppy, but shaky and slow. Same for OHP. Does that count? I did get through today on C2W2 for BP, hard and shaky and slow but I did it. Should I have repeated the weight from last cycle? I get a lot of mixed opinions, some ppl say it's fine to go to 'failure' on 12 rep week, others say to make sure it's controlled and fast. Thoughts?

http://www.powerlifting-ipf.com/Tech...ules.50.0.html

You break a rule, you dont pass. That inculdes not breaking parallel in squats and not hitting your chest in bench. Grinders count if there is no form failure (we dont count crossfit reps) and the bar never reversed, just like in power lifting. 12 rep week is an over reach week (grinder) while 8 rep week is a deload (2.5%-10% depending on pass/fail). Hope that helps.

Everyone maxes out differently, some power lifters are the slowest reps on earth, others its like any other rep, yet they can only do one.

[zaphod23]

My gyms BB and EZ curl sets are all at fixed 10# increments. Anything wrong with using the olympic bar to get the weight right on my medium days for curls?

[ScottAllan77]

Cycle 4 week 2

I've switched to barefoot before investing in flatter shoes for lifting. I feel like I've got a bit of butt wink happening but can't tell for sure.

I posted in over 35, but had no comments.

Nightanole, or anyone else care to weigh in on my form here:



Thanks

[nightanole]

Cycle 5 week 2

I've switched to barefoot before investing in flatter shoes for lifting. I feel like I've got a bit of butt wink happening but can't tell for sure.

I posted in over 35, but had no comments.

Nightanole, or anyone else care to weigh in on my form here:



Thanks

The first rep had the max acceptable butt wink, as long as you are braced you are fine (its the people who collapse into but wink just to get the bar lower that are the problem). However you just get higher and higher on your depth each time. Only that first rep counts, the rest are waay too high. You also have awesome ankle mobility. And the bar appears to be perfectly mid foot.

[ScottAllan77]

The first rep had the max acceptable butt wink, as long as you are braced you are fine (its the people who collapse into but wink just to get the bar lower that are the problem). However you just get higher and higher on your depth each time. Only that first rep counts, the rest are waay too high. You also have awesome ankle mobility. And the bar appears to be perfectly mid foot.

Thank you. I'll get that cleaned up.

[Sader762]

Well I am back from vacation. I have taken basically almost 4 weeks off from lifting. My last weight day was my test day and I pulled a muscle in my back doing squats and I decided to lay off and heal up some other areas as well. While on vacation I got a chance to do some light lifting in the hotel gym a couple of times, basically a warm-up weight for 3-5 sets. I will get 2 more of these type of work outs in this week and then I am going to get back on track next week.

Next week I will begin AllPro again but this time I am going to move on to the Novice version of 4-8 for 3 sets for the first 3 exercises. Hopefully everything goes well and I can get back into improving.

[iMac46]

Its possible its a form issue, or your diet is junk. You are basically me, 5.10 150lbs. In six cycles i went from 95lbs for 10 bench, to 155 for 8, squat i think i went from 115 to 185 for 8. I did all this on a recomp so i never went up in body weight.

If you think your form is good, id take 3-4 days off (not a full week) and do a 10 rep test and start over. No point in going down in weights when you dont know what your maxes are.

I'm pretty sure my form is good Should I start over from my 10 rep maxes for all exercises?

[GreekTrojan]

Quick question, is there anything questionable about going to a decline press rather than flat press? Research I've done seem to indicate that its a superior chest exercise to the flat press. I know the delt is stressed less in the decline but is there anything else that is compromised? I'm a big believer in not changing the program but this seems like it could be an easy swap to improve growth.

[miwinast]

Hey guys,

I have a small problem. I travel to my works main office every 4th week from Monday - Friday. I have no chance to work out these days What should I do??

[nightanole]

I'm pretty sure my form is good Should I start over from my 10 rep maxes for all exercises?

Might as well do all of them since if you dont do the exercises in order it creates a false test. Remember, always 2 left in the tank on this style of training, or you will progress really slowly.

Quick question, is there anything questionable about going to a decline press rather than flat press? Research I've done seem to indicate that its a superior chest exercise to the flat press. I know the delt is stressed less in the decline but is there anything else that is compromised? I'm a big believer in not changing the program but this seems like it could be an easy swap to improve growth.

Yes because you are doing OHP in the same session, combined they work out everything equally, and combined with the row it sets up excellent shoulder health. Also setup correctly the flat bench is a slight decline if you set your back arch correctly. That chest puff is not just to reduce ROM in power lifting.

Now when you start cycle 3 you could include a set of declines if you feel your chest is lagging.

[GreekTrojan]

Might as well do all of them since if you dont do the exercises in order it creates a false test. Remember, always 2 left in the tank on this style of training, or you will progress really slowly.


Yes because you are doing OHP in the same session, combined they work out everything equally, and combined with the row it sets up excellent shoulder health. Also setup correctly the flat bench is a slight decline if you set your back arch correctly. That chest puff is not just to reduce ROM in power lifting.

Now when you start cycle 3 you could include a set of declines if you feel your chest is lagging.

Thanks for the info. All I needed to know for now.

[iMac46]

Might as well do all of them since if you dont do the exercises in order it creates a false test. Remember, always 2 left in the tank on this style of training, or you will progress really slowly.

thanks for all your help bro. repped sorry but what do you mean by 2 left in the tank?

[nightanole]

thanks for all your help bro. repped sorry but what do you mean by 2 left in the tank?

If you can do 10-11 reps, but stop at 8 reps, you can workout like this every other day. However if you can do 8-9 reps, and do 8 reps, it will take 4-5 days to recover enough to work at that weight again. So on some programs, you can hit a personal record every workout, as long as you are only working in the 70-80% 1rm or rpe 8.5. If you goto failure/drop sets, it will take a week to recover.

So if you are working with too heavy of weights, you will be progressing slower since your recovery time will be double or triple.

[Voxmusculus]

If you can do 10-11 reps, but stop at 8 reps, you can workout like this every other day. However if you can do 8-9 reps, and do 8 reps, it will take 4-5 days to recover enough to work at that weight again. So on some programs, you can hit a personal record every workout, as long as you are only working in the 70-80% 1rm or rpe 8.5. If you goto failure/drop sets, it will take a week to recover.

So if you are working with too heavy of weights, you will be progressing slower since your recovery time will be double or triple.

And you also run the risk of injury. Because of my schedule, I was doing 100% APs twice a week on late Thursday nights and Sundays.

And last weekend was Cycle 3/Week 4, and my shoulders were in pain from bench and then OHP. 11 reps was already pushing it, and 11 reps with some pain is just incredibly hard.

So, I just stopped my workout, went home, and am taking a week off from working out to see if that helps.

[nightanole]

And you also run the risk of injury. Because of my schedule, I was doing 100% APs twice a week on late Thursday nights and Sundays.

And last weekend was Cycle 3/Week 4, and my shoulders were in pain from bench and then OHP. 11 reps was already pushing it, and 11 reps with some pain is just incredibly hard.

So, I just stopped my workout, went home, and am taking a week off from working out to see if that helps.

I would highly recommend doing warmup sets only for the week, and not take a week off. Most coaches recommend "heal in motion" vs taking a week or 2 off. Hell even if its a pvc pipe and 25% would work better even on a pulled muscle with blood pools under the skin.

What ever you do if its a muscle pull, dont stretch/foam roll. Its like an open wound, it will heal faster if you agitate it alittle, but you never stretch/hammer a cut.

[FsAxis92]

So I'm looking to change from Tues/Thurs/Sat to Mon/Wed/Fri. Should I skip today's medium day and do a second heavy day tomorrow, or accept a one day rest before next week?

[nightanole]

So I'm looking to change from Tues/Thurs/Sat to Mon/Wed/Fri. Should I skip today's medium day and do a second heavy day tomorrow, or accept a one day rest before next week?

If its 8-9 rep week id just repeat the week starting friday with heavy. If its 10 rep week you have to make a judgement call. Either way the rule is 2 days rest before every heavy day.

err edit. you wanted monday to be your heavy day. In that case do your medium today or friday, and skip light day. On monday continue as planned adding 1 rep.

[FsAxis92]

So you're saying don't do two heavy days? Do a medium day tomorrow? I was under the impression that since I did heavy Tuesday, and an missing today, I should do an additional heavy tomorrow?

[bigperm0107]

Ok, so do I graduate or not? I did all my lifts to 12 reps on test day but my energy felt low that day. On OHP i went to kick the dumbbells up(I work out at PF so no barbells)up and they didn't go up to lift. Dropped em down and did it again and did my first set of 12, it was hard but I got them in and they were pretty good form. My 2nd set of 12 I got to rep 10 and started dying. I had to push the shet out of myself to get rep 11 and then on rep 12 i was fighting it the whole way up and my form probably looked like shet but I did get the 12th one up.

So my question is do I graduate and push the weight up 10% next week or leave the weight the same for another 5 weeks?

Also an additional question I have been doing standing upright rows (which I love doing) and I just maxed out on the preset barbells they have at my gym. Do I switch over to standing curls or what would I switch to? Honestly I am probably one of the rare cases but I actually hate doing curls. So would I do standing dumbbell curls or what lift would I sub in to replace my upright rows?

Thanks in advance for the responses.

[nightanole]

So you're saying don't do two heavy days? Do a medium day tomorrow? I was under the impression that since I did heavy Tuesday, and an missing today, I should do an additional heavy tomorrow?

Heavy on friday works too. Eat well, heavy heavy pattern is an arse kicker, and then you got another heavy with an extra rep 2 days later.

[FsAxis92]

Heavy on friday works too. Eat well, heavy heavy pattern is an arse kicker, and then you got another heavy with an extra rep 2 days later.

Challenge accepted

[nightanole]

Ok, so do I graduate or not? I did all my lifts to 12 reps on test day but my energy felt low that day. On OHP i went to kick the dumbbells up(I work out at PF so no barbells)up and they didn't go up to lift. Dropped em down and did it again and did my first set of 12, it was hard but I got them in and they were pretty good form. My 2nd set of 12 I got to rep 10 and started dying. I had to push the shet out of myself to get rep 11 and then on rep 12 i was fighting it the whole way up and my form probably looked like shet but I did get the 12th one up.

So my question is do I graduate and push the weight up 10% next week or leave the weight the same for another 5 weeks?

Also an additional question I have been doing standing upright rows (which I love doing) and I just maxed out on the preset barbells they have at my gym. Do I switch over to standing curls or what would I switch to? Honestly I am probably one of the rare cases but I actually hate doing curls. So would I do standing dumbbell curls or what lift would I sub in to replace my upright rows?

Thanks in advance for the responses.

As long as the bar did not reverse direction, and there was no form failure, grinders count.

As for a upright row replacement, cable machines are acceptable. Anything that doesnt have a fixed bar path.

I assumed most gyms had a variant of this:

[miwinast]

Hey guys,

I have a small problem. I travel to my works main office every 4th week from Monday - Friday. I have no chance to work out these days What should I do??

[bigperm0107]

As long as the bar did not reverse direction, and there was no form failure, grinders count.

As for a upright row replacement, cable machines are acceptable. Anything that doesnt have a fixed bar path.

I assumed most gyms had a variant of this:

Awesome! Thanks for the quick response. I will try to rep you but I think I have already repped you before so it may not let me. One last thing. I just finished up my 3rd cycle so can I add in some kind of extra lift now since I am starting my 4th? I really want to strengthen my lower back and my legs. My lower back has been giving me an aching pain for quite some time even before i started lifting so I would like to strengthen it. Any particular lift that I can do that I am not already doing to hit the lower back more?

I work out at PF so there isn't anything in the way of barbells or even squat racks so my only access would be machines, or dumbbells.

Thanks again for the quick response.

[Voxmusculus]

I would highly recommend doing warmup sets only for the week, and not take a week off. Most coaches recommend "heal in motion" vs taking a week or 2 off. Hell even if its a pvc pipe and 25% would work better even on a pulled muscle with blood pools under the skin.

What ever you do if its a muscle pull, dont stretch/foam roll. Its like an open wound, it will heal faster if you agitate it alittle, but you never stretch/hammer a cut.

So, I went to the doctor and looks like I may have agitated an older rotator cuff tear from a few years ago. Nothing is torn, but it is probably bruised badly and he wants me to take it easy.

He basically gave me some physiotherapeutic exercises for the shoulder for a few days, and some anti-inflammation meds. I've also been asked to ice the shoulder as often as I can, so let's see.

I was hoping to wrap up my cycle this week and start on GST next week, but unfortunately, it looks as if I may have to take some time off from actual workouts.

[Eshkeemo]

[Edit] Bought a full barbell set ^_^ Gonna wait a couple days and find out my max rep and get started, can't wait!