Trying to gain weight while burning fat. I know, it sounds crazy.

[liammckee8]

I'm currently 170 trying to get to about 175-180 over the summer, but am really trying to lose fat in my lower stomach. I eat very clean, and was wondering if anyone knew of any preworkouts that may help me burn fat and increase energy? Maybe even a pump too would be great. Thanks!

[joodabop]

Energy/Pumps from a Pre-Workout...Yes. Burning Fat...No.

Calorie Deficit to lose weight/burn fat. Calorie Surplus to add weight/build muscle. Best bet is to pick one goal and adjust your diet accordingly.

[BenBlue]

Energy/Pumps from a Pre-Workout...Yes. Burning Fat...No.

Calorie Deficit to lose weight/burn fat. Calorie Surplus to add weight/build muscle. Best bet is to pick one goal and adjust your diet accordingly.

Yeap. Plus OP, you can't target fat loss. You're body stores fat in the lower belly, like most guys. You lose weight proportionately and you cannot strictly target your lower belly fat. More importantly though, you gotta choose one goal at a time.

[misfit28]

Energy/Pumps from a Pre-Workout...Yes. Burning Fat...No.

Calorie Deficit to lose weight/burn fat. Calorie Surplus to add weight/build muscle. Best bet is to pick one goal and adjust your diet accordingly.

Yeap. Plus OP, you can't target fat loss. You're body stores fat in the lower belly, like most guys. You lose weight proportionately and you cannot strictly target your lower belly fat. More importantly though, you gotta choose one goal at a time.

Both of these are on point.

Make sure your macros are in line with your goals by reading this thread. How tall are you?

You might benefit more from a "clean" bulk at this point. If you put on some muscle mass first, it will make it easier to cut down the road.

[TMac26]

Your best bet is to limit the amount of fat gain while bulking.

[scottyb05]

Both of these are on point.

Make sure your macros are in line with your goals by reading this thread. How tall are you?

You might benefit more from a "clean" bulk at this point. If you put on some muscle mass first, it will make it easier to cut down the road.

But he eats "very clean"

Gotta pick a goal, and hit it full force. Bulk or cut, and do it 100%. These results will come with your diet, not a preworkout (or any other supp).

[BenBlue]

Both of these are on point.

Make sure your macros are in line with your goals by reading this thread. How tall are you?

You might benefit more from a "clean" bulk at this point. If you put on some muscle mass first, it will make it easier to cut down the road.

Your best bet is to limit the amount of fat gain while bulking.

As both have said, try to do a "clean bulk" where you limit the amount of fat gained throughout the muscle building process. A lot of people think that "bulking is bulking", but if you hit your macros and calorie count with clean whole foods, you will gain a lot less body fat throughout the process, as opposed to eating anything in site. Once you put a good frame of muscle on your body, the cut will be a lot easier, as your muscles will require more nutrients/foods, thus causing much of what you put in your body to go to them, instead of storing fat.

[The Solution]

Energy/Pumps from a Pre-Workout...Yes. Burning Fat...No.

Calorie Deficit to lose weight/burn fat. Calorie Surplus to add weight/build muscle. Best bet is to pick one goal and adjust your diet accordingly.

Agree
your trying to do 2 things at once which have a different caloric situation. You will end up trying to spin your wheels in the end.

Choose a goal and attack it:

If Cutting Read the following:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...ss-part-1.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...ss-part-2.html

I highly suggest you read here regarding your diet:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...ts-part-1.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...ts-part-2.html



If Trying to add some size:


Eat in a caloric surplus, meaning eating more kcals than you need to maintain in order to gain muscle, size, and strength.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...mass-gain.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...-gains-qa.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...ass-gains.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...ass-gains.html

Philosophies, Macro intake, training , and cardio articles for you to understand and help set up what you need to do before moving forward towards more supplements or advanced workout routines.

[xLGx]

As both have said, try to do a "clean bulk" where you limit the amount of fat gained throughout the muscle building process. A lot of people think that "bulking is bulking", but if you hit your macros and calorie count with clean whole foods, you will gain a lot less body fat throughout the process, as opposed to eating anything in site. Once you put a good frame of muscle on your body, the cut will be a lot easier, as your muscles will require more nutrients/foods, thus causing much of what you put in your body to go to them, instead of storing fat.

I clean bulk (0.5 lbs/wk) with McDonalds. umad

[BenBlue]

I clean bulk (0.5 lbs/wk) with McDonalds. umad

McDonalds. About as clean as one can get. Good for you bro, you're on point.

[xLGx]

McDonalds. About as clean as one can get. Good for you bro, you're on point.

iifym

[ODoyle99]

McDonalds. About as clean as one can get. Good for you bro, you're on point.

Food isn't clean or dirty. "Clean" and "dirty" bulking refer to how much above maintenance you are.

/digression

[xLGx]

Food isn't clean or dirty. "Clean" and "dirty" bulking refer to how much above maintenance you are.

/digression

Should I run my McDoubles under some soapy water?

[BenBlue]

iifym

Food isn't clean or dirty. "Clean" and "dirty" bulking refer to how much above maintenance you are.

/digression

Sure, but treating your diet like that doesn't take micro-nutrients into account. You can get your macros from any food source you want, McDonalds being one of them. But does your body feel like you are giving it clean, nutrient rich foods? Not through foods like this. I prefer to think about my diet in terms of overall health, not hitting macros designed for whatever goal I am trying to achieve. As far as I am concerned, a clean bulk takes micros into account, and is not strictly concerned with Macros.

[TMac26]

Food isn't clean or dirty. "Clean" and "dirty" bulking refer to how much above maintenance you are.

/digression

My personal experience disagrees.


For me personally, its junk in, junk out. I over all feel better when I don't ingest things like McDonalds often. And its not because of those fatz or carbs, its mainly due to the sodium levels.

[Bigdumogre]

My personal experience disagrees.


For me personally, its junk in, junk out. I over all feel better when I don't ingest things like McDonalds often. And its not because of those fatz or carbs, its mainly due to the sodium levels.

Plus their bacon is not crispy

Post pics of yourself and get diet in check we can go from there.

[TMac26]

Their bacon is alway soggy.


Blasphemy.

[Jiigzz]

Let's discuss semantics.

There's no such thing as a "clean diet". Ask anyone what their interpretation of clean is and you'll get 1000 different answers. I eat Bacon, Eggs, Steak, Coconut Milk etc. like theres no tomorrow yet some people (misguided as they are) would call that dirty.

Eating junk food does not correlate to getting fat; an increase above maintenance correlates to getting fat. Whenever you're bulking you can manipulate variables to minimise fat gain (but not prevent it).

[TMac26]

Let's discuss semantics.

There's no such thing as a "clean diet". Ask anyone what their interpretation of clean is and you'll get 1000 different answers. I eat Bacon, Eggs, Steak, Coconut Milk etc. like theres no tomorrow yet some people (misguided as they are) would call that dirty.

Eating junk food does not correlate to getting fat; an increase above maintenance correlates to getting fat. Whenever you're bulking you can manipulate variables to minimise fat gain (but not prevent it).

I agree completely.


But some people see this in too black/white. There are people who do not eat junk for fear of going overboard and blowing their calories. I'm all for dieting how you chose to diet, every person is different. But I do disagree with those that tell someone is doing it wrong because its not their way of dieting, whether it be flexible dieting for a strict adherence to no junk food.


I for one, don't keep much in the way of junk food in my house, and do not go out to eat very often. Its too easy for me to blow my calories away, too often.

[BenBlue]

Let's discuss semantics.

There's no such thing as a "clean diet". Ask anyone what their interpretation of clean is and you'll get 1000 different answers. I eat Bacon, Eggs, Steak, Coconut Milk etc. like theres no tomorrow yet some people (misguided as they are) would call that dirty.

Eating junk food does not correlate to getting fat; an increase above maintenance correlates to getting fat. Whenever you're bulking you can manipulate variables to minimise fat gain (but not prevent it).

I agree completely.


But some people see this in too black/white. There are people who do not eat junk for fear of going overboard and blowing their calories. I'm all for dieting how you chose to diet, every person is different. But I do disagree with those that tell someone is doing it wrong because its not their way of dieting, whether it be flexible dieting for a strict adherence to no junk food.


I for one, don't keep much in the way of junk food in my house, and do not go out to eat very often. Its too easy for me to blow my calories away, too often.

I agree with both of these points. Furthermore, there are certain types of foods that hold very little in the way of micro-nutrients, as I had mentioned above. Sure, you can fill those gaps with a good multi, fish oils etc. But let's get realistic here, a well balanced diet takes macros as well as micros into effect. I don't think anybody would argue otherwise. Anyone using foods like McDonalds to hit their macros, is not going to be giving their bodies the full round of nutrients that it needs for optimal performance, and response. If your ONLY concern is getting fat, then sure, go ahead and hit your macros with whatever food you want, as crappy and empty as the foods may be from a micro-nutrient perspective. I would argue that you are not giving your diet enough attention, or that you are giving it the wrong attention.

[BenBlue]

I for one, don't keep much in the way of junk food in my house, and do not go out to eat very often. Its too easy for me to blow my calories away, too often.

This is a great point.

[The Solution]

Let's discuss semantics.

There's no such thing as a "clean diet". Ask anyone what their interpretation of clean is and you'll get 1000 different answers. I eat Bacon, Eggs, Steak, Coconut Milk etc. like theres no tomorrow yet some people (misguided as they are) would call that dirty.

Eating junk food does not correlate to getting fat; an increase above maintenance correlates to getting fat. Whenever you're bulking you can manipulate variables to minimise fat gain (but not prevent it).

Spot on

Alan Aragon the Dirt on clean eating:

Applying Moderation: The 10-20% Guideline

For those hoping that I’ll tell you to have fun eating whatever you want, you’re in luck. But, like everything in life, you’ll have to moderate your indulgence, and the 10-20% guideline is the best way I’ve found to do this. There currently is no compelling evidence suggesting that a diet whose calories are 80-90% from whole & minimally processed foods is not prudent enough for maximizing health, longevity, body composition, or training performance. As a matter of fact, research I just discussed points to the possibility that it’s more psychologically sound to allow a certain amount of flexibility for indulgences rather than none at all. And just to reiterate, processed does not always mean devoid of nutritional value. Whey and whey/casein blends are prime examples of nutritional powerhouses that happen to be removed from their original food matrix.


Use the 10-20% discretionary intake rule and enjoy life a bit.
The 10-20% guideline isn’t only something I’ve used successfully with clients; it’s also within the bounds of research. Aside from field observations, there are three lines of evidence that happen to concur with this guideline. I’ll start with the most liberal one and work my way down. The current Dietary Reference Intakes report by Food & Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine lists the upper limit of added sugars as 25% of total calories [24]. Similarly, an exhaustive literature review by Gibson and colleagues found that 20% of total calories from added sugars is roughly the maximum amount that won’t adversely dilute the diet’s concentration of essential micronutrition [25]. Keep in mind that both of these figures are in reference to refined, extrinsic sugars, not naturally occurring sugars within whole foods like fruit or milk. Finally, the USDA has attempted to teach moderation with their concept of the discretionary calorie allotment, defined as follows [26]:

“…the difference between total energy requirements and the energy consumed to meet recommended nutrient intakes.”

Basically, discretionary calories comprise the margin of leftover calories that can be used flexibly once essential nutrient needs are met. Coincidentally, the USDA’s discretionary calorie allotment averages at approximately 10-20% of total calories [27]. Take note that discretionary calories are not just confined to added sugars. Any food or beverage is fair game. The USDA’s system is still far from perfect, since it includes naturally-occurring fats in certain foods as part of the discretionary calorie allotment. This is an obvious holdover from the fat-phobic era that the USDA clings to, despite substantial evidence to the contrary [28].

It’s important to keep in mind that protein and fat intake should not be compromised for the sake of fitting discretionary foods into the diet. In other words, make sure discretionary intake doesn’t consistently displace essential micro- & macronutrient needs, and this includes minimum daily protein and fat targets, which vary individually. This may be tough to accept, but alcohol is not an essential nutrient. Its risks can swiftly trump its benefits if it’s consumed in excess, so it falls into the discretionary category.

10% Versus 20%

Another legitimate question is why I’ve listed the discretionary range as 10-20% rather than just listing it as a maximum of 20%. This is because energy balance matters. In bulking scenarios, maintaining a 20% limit could potentially pose health risks that are already elevated by the process of weight gain, which in some cases involves a certain amount of fat gain. Conversely, weight loss tends to be an inherently cardioprotective process, independent of diet composition [29]. So, the 20% limit is more appropriate for those either losing or maintaining weight. Those who are gaining weight but want to play it safe should hover towards the lower & middle of the range (10-15%). Another factor that can influence the upper safe threshold is physical activity level. I’ll quote Johnson & Murray in a recent review [30]:

“Obesity and metabolic syndrome are rare among athletes, even though dietary fructose intake is often high, underscoring the robust protective role of regular exercise.”


In the above quote, you can substitute any controversial food or nutrient in place of the word fructose, and the same principle would apply. A greater range of dietary flexibility is one of the luxuries of regular training. Sedentary individuals do not have the same level of safeguarding from the potentially adverse effects of a higher proportion of indulgence foods. And just in case it wasn’t made clear enough, 10-20% indicates the maximum, not minimum discretionary allotment. If someone strives to consume 0% of calories from any food that’s been processed or refined from its original state, then that’s perfectly fine – as long as this is the person’s genuine preference, and not a painful battle of will. I’d also like to make it clear that there is still plenty of grey area in the study of dietary effects on health. As such, the nature and extent of the miscellaneous or rule-free food allotment is a delicate judgment call. In this case, it’s wise to keep scientific research at the head of the judging panel, but don’t ignore personal experience & individual feedback.

Final Note: Linear Versus Nonlinear Distribution

A legitimate question is, what’s the best way to distribute discretionary calories? Should they be confined to a daily limit, or can it be a weekly limit? The best answer is to let personal preference decide. If we use a 2000 kcal diet as an example, a flat/linear approach would mean that 200-400 kcal per day can come from whatever you want, while meeting essential needs otherwise in the diet. Weekly, this translates to 1400-2800 kcal, depending on the factors I previously discussed. One nonlinear option would be to break the weekly allotment in half, where 2 days per week you indulge in 700-1400 kcal of whatever you want, keeping the remaining 5 days relatively Spartan. Again, there is no universally superior method of distributing the discretionary allotment. The same principle applies to the choice of foods to fulfill it. Honoring personal preference is one of the most powerful yet underrated tactics for achieving optimal health and body composition. And that’s the nitty-gritty as I see it.

[chicagojosh]

I clean bulk (0.5 lbs/wk) with McDonalds. umad

Mcdonalds counts as food? haha

[chicagojosh]

I can't comment from experience, as I am just starting out this supplement, and I'm sure someone will chime in, but I've been told/read/watched etc... that CLA can be helpful while bulking to help keep the fat added to a minimum. Thoughts on this anyone? or did I waste my $16?

[The Solution]

I can't comment from experience, as I am just starting out this supplement, and I'm sure someone will chime in, but I've been told/read/watched etc... that CLA can be helpful while bulking to help keep the fat added to a minimum. Thoughts on this anyone? or did I waste my $16?

Whoever told you this is bogus.

CLA wont benefit anything much at all
even in studies up to 6g a day even on obese people there was not much merit to CLA at all

Do your research:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=132306613

[chicagojosh]

Whoever told you this is bogus.

CLA wont benefit anything much at all
even in studies up to 6g a day even on obese people there was not much merit to CLA at all

Do your research:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=132306613

Damn Dr. Oz (among others) Solution am I blind? I don't see CLA in the link you provided...

[haiz69]

After experiencing both extremes of this topic, I find myself winding up right in the middle (like Alan). I will say strongly that I believe food quality DOES matter to the point that you are consuming all of your macro and micro-nutrient needs. Also, avoiding processed foods for the most part helps you stay away from certain food additives and mystery ingredients common to fast/packaged foods. The 10-20% rule has worked extremely well with some of my clients, but others have found that it is too easy to go overboard for them. For these people I try a cheat day instead of spreading it out, which has also worked well. Everyone is different, but the general concept outlined above should work for the majority of people.

[elliottsohns27]

Is fast food ok while powerlifting

[chicagojosh]

Is fast food ok while powerlifting

- not if you want to get most from your calories. whether im trying to bulk or cut I don't touch the stuff. a big mac for example..mcdonalds claims is 550 calories/25 grams protein. vs. say lean chicken approx. 7 grams protein per oz. and approx. 35-40 cals per oz. so for the 550 calories of big mac you get 25 grams protein. if you divide 550 calories into 40 cals/ounce you get get 13.75. 13.75 x 7 = 96 grams protein. (96 grams protein for 550 cal lean chicken vs. 25 grams protein for 550 cal big mac) so, it's not "efficient" to eat fast food if you followed all that math.

[xLGx]

- not if you want to get most from your calories. whether im trying to bulk or cut I don't touch the stuff. a big mac for example..mcdonalds claims is 550 calories/25 grams protein. vs. say lean chicken approx. 7 grams protein per oz. and approx. 35-40 cals per oz. so for the 550 calories of big mac you get 25 grams protein. if you divide 550 calories into 40 cals/ounce you get get 13.75. 13.75 x 7 = 96 grams protein. (96 grams protein for 550 cal lean chicken vs. 25 grams protein for 550 cal big mac) so, it's not "efficient" to eat fast food if you followed all that math.

Except for those of us that need higher calories to gain weight and do not believe in eating 300 grams of protein a day. A 390 calories cheeseburger with 23g of protein is perfect for me.