calling out lasher

[eltigar]

its time for you to face cold hard fact , kick aside arrogance and the fear that's holding you back.
its inevitable.
all that stuff you have been reading about Islam trying to prove it wrong.....have you ever asked your self why your obsessed.
your heart is trying to tell you something.
allah is calling you bro. god the all mighty.
come to islam.
you know deep down inside , you have that spark.
let it burn and shine.
lets stand together as brothers.
you dont have to reply here, im asking you to think about this to yourself and please, please please be honest most of all to your self.

[lasher]

worst callout ever.

I'm not obsessed with proving islam wrong. I just like learning about the origins of world religions. u mad?

You guize are in for a world of pain once academic textual study goes to town on the qur'an like it did with the bible over the last 200 years. The ball has begun to roll already. Better get ready brah.

[Bassorah]

worst callout ever.

I'm not obsessed with proving islam wrong, because I already have found the truth. I just like learning about the origins of world religions. u mad?

You guize are in for a world of pain once academic textual study goes to town on the qur'an like it did with the bible over the last 200 years. The ball has begun to roll already. Better get ready brah.

# of people since the Prophet who have memorized the Qur'an in its entirety: tens of millions
# of people since "John", "Matthew" etc. who have memorized the entire Greek new testament: 1? maybe 2?

consequences of changing Quranic text in the Muslim community: death sentence
consequences of changing new testament text in medieval Europe: no consequences, nobody cared because the people making the changes were the only ones who had access to the text.


what striking parallels, we skurred.

Btw, how does it feel to know that the foundation of your faith (the resurrection) relies on these very same new testament manuscripts that even your own scholars say have been subject to numerous alterations and contain numerous contradiction?
INB4 biblical inerrancy is irrelevant when talking about whether or not the resurrection is a historical fact even though the bible is the primary source christian rely on to prove that it is indeed a historical fact.
Is such a thing even possible??????????

Anyways, I always find it regrettable when theists argue amongst themselves on this atheist dominated forum but don't attack our faith and try to bring it down to your level in order to justice your own beliefs.

[lasher]

^ yawn

Nearly every single thing you said in that post is bullshyt.

[PSUbrah]

inb4 he becomes a Shia to piss you off

[lasher]

inb4 he becomes a Shia to piss you off

I'd go Ahmadi for maximum jimmies

[Bassorah]

^ yawn

Nearly every single thing you said in that post is bullshyt.

But i am genuinely curious as to how christians can both believe that the bible has errors but the resurrection is true even though the bible is the primary source for the resurrection....

Obviously, it doesn't mean that the resurrection account is false but i don't think you can rationally believe it when you also consider the amount of modifications and errors that are found in the new testament.

[Spartan5364]

But i am genuinely curious as to how christians can both believe that the bible has errors but the resurrection is true even though the bible is the primary source for the resurrection....

Obviously, it doesn't mean that the resurrection account is false but i don't think you can rationally believe it when you also consider the amount of modifications and errors that are found in the new testament.

bro your entire religion is a ripoff of our religion

[Bassorah]

bro your entire religion is a ripoff of our religion

bro I'm not even hating, i hold no animosity towards Christians but i am genuinely curious about the question i asked previously.

Plus Islam is a lot closer to Judaism than to Christianity but we acknowledge the similarity and accept it because we believe Judaism as well as Christianity to some extent is a divinely inspired religion.

[lasher]

But i am genuinely curious as to how christians can both believe that the bible has errors but the resurrection is true even though the bible is the primary source for the resurrection....

Because I view it as a set of historical documents that can be subjected the the same historical methodology as any other set of historical documents. And while I believe the NT is inspired that doesn't require me to believe it is inerrant in the fundamentalist sense you are thinking of. Dr. Licona defends the resurrection using the NT only as historical documents.

You are also vastly overstating your case regarding modifications and errors. Even non-christian NT scholars agree that our greek text is 99.5% identical to the autographs. we have over 25000 manuscripts coming from multiple lines of regional transmission all over the world to compare them with.

Almost all textual variants cannot even be translated into english, in other words they are grammatical nuances of greek that have no relevance at all. Such as the movable nu. Out of the remaining 1 percent of variants, only half are even viable, meaning they could change the original meaning. That is .5% And even after acknowledging that, even Bart Ehrman, a well known non-christian textual critic admits that none of those .5% of variants change any christian doctrine in any meaningful way. I think I'm good with that level of accuracy.

The alternative would have been controlled transmission. This is what Muslims have in the Qur'an. Which means they had to trust that the Uthman version of the Qur'an was correct, because all other copies were destroyed, and the only line of transmission available now of the uthmanian one. This is great for reducing textual variants, not so great at providing assurance the original meaning of the original text was faithfully passed on.

[Bassorah]

Because I view it as a set of historical documents that can be subjected the the same historical methodology as any other set of historical documents. And while I believe the NT is inspired that doesn't require me to believe it is inerrant in the fundamentalist sense you are thinking of. Dr. Licona defends the resurrection using the NT only as historical documents.

You are also vastly overstating your case regarding modifications and errors. Even non-christian NT scholars agree that our greek text is 99.5% identical to the autographs. Of that .5% .4% are grammar, spelling, name changes, etc. Of the remaining .1% of variants, only half are viable. Of those, not a single variant changes a single christian doctrine.

i disagree that very small changes cannot alter the meaning of a passage greatly. but you are now grossly understating the importance of these errors and contradictions in the new testament. the different books even contradict each other on the resurrection! the very foundation of your religion!

now obviously Christians cannot claim that the original texts were contradictory but rather that contradictions added up as scribes made copies of the text. However, if you accept that scribes made these important errors(perhaps even outright changes) regarding the resurrection then how can you possibly turn around and say these errors are insignificant????

if somebody changed the word "prophet" for "God" in the Qur'an it might only amount to a 0.1% change in the actual text but it would result in a completely new religion!

[lasher]

i disagree that very small changes cannot alter the meaning of a passage greatly. but you are now grossly understating the importance of these errors and contradictions in the new testament. the different books even contradict each other on the resurrection! the very foundation of your religion!

now obviously Christians cannot claim that the original texts were contradictory but rather that contradictions added up as scribes made copies of the text. However, if you accept that scribes made these important errors(perhaps even outright changes) regarding the resurrection then how can you possibly turn around and say these errors are insignificant????

if somebody changed the word "prophet" for "God" in the Qur'an it might only amount to a 0.1% change in the actual text but it would result in a completely new religion!

Yeah, if you aren't going to substantiate anything you are saying then no thanks jeff. I am not underestimating anything. These are the results of studies done by both christian and non christian scholars. You simply don't know what you're talking about. The gospel resurrection accounts are written from different perspectives and from different source materials. That is why they contain minor variations on peripheral details. However the core account is identical in all of them.

In addition to that, the creed of Paul to the corinthians in 1 cor 15 is dated by NT scholars to be within 10 years of the death of Christ, and it affirms the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

The carmen christi in Philippians 2 also affirms the death and resurrection. So does Peter in his first epistle.

[A-GAME]

Lel

[apappas7787]

worst callout ever.

I'm not obsessed with proving islam wrong. I just like learning about the origins of world religions. u mad?

You guize are in for a world of pain once academic textual study goes to town on the qur'an like it did with the bible over the last 200 years. The ball has begun to roll already. Better get ready brah.

Allah is calling you, brah.

[JonathanRhimes]

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This guy's religion predates everyone else's in this thread. You mad?

[A-GAME]

Allah is calling you, brah.

Lasher is an atheist troll breh. The dark lord called him long ago.

[JonathanRhimes]

# of people since the Prophet who have memorized the Qur'an in its entirety: tens of millions
# of people since "John", "Matthew" etc. who have memorized the entire Greek new testament: 1? maybe 2?

consequences of changing Quranic text in the Muslim community: death sentence
consequences of changing new testament text in medieval Europe: no consequences, nobody cared because the people making the changes were the only ones who had access to the text.


what striking parallels, we skurred.

Btw, how does it feel to know that the foundation of your faith (the resurrection) relies on these very same new testament manuscripts that even your own scholars say have been subject to numerous alterations and contain numerous contradiction?
INB4 biblical inerrancy is irrelevant when talking about whether or not the resurrection is a historical fact even though the bible is the primary source christian rely on to prove that it is indeed a historical fact.
Is such a thing even possible??????????

Anyways, I always find it regrettable when theists argue amongst themselves on this atheist dominated forum but don't attack our faith and try to bring it down to your level in order to justice your own beliefs.

Lol sorry, is the point of this post 'Islam rocks because we kill people all the time'? That's the EXACT same reason other people think it sucks...people die for religious disagreements in Islamic countries at disproportionate rates.

It took Christianity about ~1700 years to mostly stop killing people for religious reasons...if they progress at the same rate maybe Islam will be there in 400 years.

[apappas7787]

Lasher is an atheist troll breh. The dark lord called him long ago.

Fooled me lol

[Weightaholic]

bro your entire religion is a ripoff of our religion

You're jewish?

[A-GAME]

this guy knows whats up



orb, your entire religion is a ripoff of judaism which is a ripoff zoroastrianism which is a ripoff of my religion

therefore hinduism is true -ism




























hare ram

Om Shri ram jai ram jai jai ram

[whatisbro]

You're jewish?

Islam is a ripoff from Christianity.

[dysenterygary]

lol if there is a true religion it sure as phuck isn't Islam. last kunts to the show gtfo.

[whatisbro]

this guy knows whats up



orb, your entire religion is a ripoff of judaism which is a ripoff zoroastrianism which is a ripoff of my religion

therefore hinduism is true -ism

hare ram

Zoastrianism started 5-6 century bce. Judaism predates it by hundreds of years.

[Weightaholic]

Islam is a ripoff from Christianity.

Uh, no.

[whatisbro]

Uh, no.

Judaism denies Jesus. Muslims accept who they think is Muslim Jesus. Judaism is mainly laws for the Ot Israelites and shouldn't exist on it's own anymore

[MinisterOfLust]

its time for you to face cold hard fact , kick aside arrogance and the fear that's holding you back.
its inevitable.
all that stuff you have been reading about Islam trying to prove it wrong.....have you ever asked your self why your obsessed.
your heart is trying to tell you something.
allah is calling you bro. god the all mighty.
come to islam.
you know deep down inside , you have that spark.
let it burn and shine.
lets stand together as brothers.
you dont have to reply here, im asking you to think about this to yourself and please, please please be honest most of all to your self.

[lasher]

[IMG]http://i.minus.com/i5HosGmv7H5a7.gif[/IM.G]

LOL wtf!?

[JonathanRhimes]

Zoastrianism started 5-6 century bce. Judaism predates it by hundreds of years.

"It is true that Judaism is probably the oldest monotheistic religion that still has a significant number of followers today. However, history tells us of a monotheistic revolution in Egypt that probably predates the authorship of Jewish holy scriptures and definitely predates the unified Kingdom of Israel (circa 1000 B.C.), which allowed Judaism to cultivate its teachings and dogma.

This Egyptian monotheistic revolution arrived under the 18th-dynasty pharaoh named Akhnaton, also known as Amenhotep IV, and his wife, Nefertiti, also known as Nefreteti or Nofretete. Akhnaton and Nefertiti ruled during the 14th century B.C. Nefertiti is well-known to modern scholars because an intriguing, beautiful and well-preserved limestone bust of her was uncovered at Tell el Amarna in 1913. The bust is now part of the Berlin Museum's collection. Yet despite her famous visage, little is known about Nefertiti. One of the most salient facts about her existence is that Nefertiti and her husband promoted a monotheistic belief in an Egyptian god known as Aton."
http://curiosity.discovery.com/question/atonism-article

Don't also let's forget that Yahweh/Jehovah is just one of the numerous deities in the Semitic pantheon, had a consort, etc.

[MuscleXtreme]

Dang it, now I'm 7 call out threads behind Lasher.

[MuscleXtreme]

# of people since the Prophet who have memorized the Qur'an in its entirety: tens of millions
# of people since "John", "Matthew" etc. who have memorized the entire Greek new testament: 1? maybe 2?

consequences of changing Quranic text in the Muslim community: death sentence
consequences of changing new testament text in medieval Europe: no consequences, nobody cared because the people making the changes were the only ones who had access to the text.


what striking parallels, we skurred.

Btw, how does it feel to know that the foundation of your faith (the resurrection) relies on these very same new testament manuscripts that even your own scholars say have been subject to numerous alterations and contain numerous contradiction?
INB4 biblical inerrancy is irrelevant when talking about whether or not the resurrection is a historical fact even though the bible is the primary source christian rely on to prove that it is indeed a historical fact.
Is such a thing even possible??????????

Anyways, I always find it regrettable when theists argue amongst themselves on this atheist dominated forum but don't attack our faith and try to bring it down to your level in order to justice your own beliefs.

Lol but who was diacritical marks.