Using lats in the deadlift

[Maestrobater]

Is there a risk of tearing a bicep when rotating my elbows inward to use my lats more in the deadlift? I use a double-overhand hook grip on my heaver sets.

Like in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuV_ZMZU9qc

[TheMadPhysicist]

just use less weight and add more reps. But you'll find many more ways of better engaging the lats than DL.

Is there a risk of tearing a bicep when rotating my elbows inward to use my lats more in the deadlift? I use a double-overhand hook grip on my heaver sets.

Like in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuV_ZMZU9qc

[Maestrobater]

just use less weight and add more reps. But you'll find many more ways of better engaging the lats than DL.

I don't really want to strengthen my lats with the DL, I have that covered already. I just want more power at the start of the lift.

[bmontgomery87]

I don't really want to strengthen my lats with the DL, I have that covered already. I just want more power at the start of the lift.

The start of the lift is about leg drive.
You don't need to be rotating your elbows during the lift IMO. Just get stronger.

What are you deadlifting now ?
What does your current setup look like? You'll get the best advice if you post a video of what you're doing now.

[TheMadPhysicist]

which you'll get from your hams.....

I don't really want to strengthen my lats with the DL, I have that covered already. I just want more power at the start of the lift.

[Maestrobater]

The start of the lift is about leg drive.
You don't need to be rotating your elbows during the lift IMO. Just get stronger.

What are you deadlifting now ?
What does your current setup look like? You'll get the best advice if you post a video of what you're doing now.

Current 1rm is 140kg (309lbs) with a double overhand hook grip. I'll try to get a video up soon. I tend to have trouble leaning back at the start of the pull though.

which you'll get from your hams.....

Would doing SLDLs help with this?

[rlundregan]

Would doing SLDLs help with this?

SLDL's will help a little. Glute Ham Raises would be a much better choice. They seem to have more carryover to Deadlifts.

[kennycroxdale]

The start of the lift is about leg drive.

Sumo Deadliift

Sumo lifter use leg drive to break the weight off the floor.

The muscle firing sequence is Legs-Back.

Conventional Deadlifter

The majority of Conventional Deadlifter use the back to break the weight off the floor.

The muscle firing sequence is Back-Legs-Back.

That based on Dr Tom McLaughlin's (Exercise Biomechanics/Former Powerlifter) Research.

Leg Drive

The emphasis on pushing with the legs to break the weight from the floor, continues to be misinformation that is spread.

Kenny Croxdale

[kennycroxdale]

which you'll get from your hams.....

Hamstrings

The hamstrings do play a role in getting the weight up.

However, research (Dr Tom McLaughlin) has demonstrated that in a Conventional Deadlift, the lower back breaks the weight off the floor.

Kenny Croxdale

[TheMadPhysicist]

Really? I would have said RDL as it engages the hams and gluts whereas SLDL puts more focus on the lower back.

But the hams need to be strong and strengthened away from deadlifts before using them in the lift in my opinion. I spent a long time stretching and conditioning my hamstrings before i could use them in RDL without compromising my form (like the start of a squat). This allowed me to deadlift much much more than i could during SLDL or without using them (which is almost the same).

SLDL's will help a little. Glute Ham Raises would be a much better choice. They seem to have more carryover to Deadlifts.

[kennycroxdale]

Would doing SLDLs help with this?

YES!

One of the things McLaughlin noted in his research was that the Stiff (Slight Knee Break) was one of the most effective movements for developing strength off the floor.

The Stiff Leg Deadlift is a great posterior chain exercise.

Other Posterior Chain Movements

1) Good Mornings

This movement very closely simulates the Deadlift.

The muscle overloading occurs in the lower part of the movement.

That means you will build strength for the Deadlift off the floor.

2) Deficit Deadlifts

Standing on a Coke Crate or Plates and pulling the weight from you shoe tops will increase you strength off the floor.

Kenny Croxdale

[kennycroxdale]

Really? I would have said RDL as it engages the hams and gluts whereas SLDL puts more focus on the lower back.

Lower Back

The Stiff Leg Deadlift does overload the lower back.

That is exactly what you want.

THE DEADLIFT: A SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS. By Davey Dunn
http://www.nhomag.com/99_v1_n2_5.asp

This article, which isn't coming up, goes into McLaughlin's research analysis on the Deadlift.

I have this article and McLaughlin's original work.

But the hams need to be strong and strengthened away from deadlifts before using them in the lift in my opinion. I spent a long time stretching and conditioning my hamstrings before i could use them in RDL without compromising my form (like the start of a squat). This allowed me to deadlift much much more than i could during SLDL or without using them (which is almost the same).

Hamstrings

Along with the lower back, the hamstrings and glutes play a vital role in the Deadlift.

A good article that goes into this is...

Deadlift 5 Plate Like A Champion
http://www.wannabebig.com/training/d...ke-a-champion/

Kenny Croxdale

[kennycroxdale]

SLDL's will help a little. Glute Ham Raises would be a much better choice. They seem to have more carryover to Deadlifts.

Stiff Leg Deadlift

This is a more effective movement for the deadlift.

Good Morning are also an excellent movement for the deadlift.

Glute Ham

Overall, I am unimpressed with this movement.

This is an interesting look at...

Gutting the Glute-Ham Raise
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...gluteham_raise

Kenny Croxdale

[JOoa0ky]

WHY should we activate the lats throughout the entire DL?
Because it keeps the bar as close to you as possible.

Is it easier to lift a 60kg kettle bell that is right below you or 2 feet in front of you?
That should be easy enough to figure out (:

Think about the lat iso exercise the straight arm pulldown... Activating your lats is basically the end range 2-3 inches of that same exact movement.


Last but not least, in addition to keeping the bar closer to you so you can lift more weight, having it activated stabilizes your entire upper back. Know that chest up cue? When you activate your lats, your chest actually naturally perks up...

[bmontgomery87]

My point was a bit more along the lines of someone pulling 300 pounds shouldn't be terribly worried about rotating their elbows during the deadlift.
Yes, he should work on correct form, but I haven't heard this elbow rotation advice from many big deadlifters.

[lllDBOlll]

This video should help you to remember to use your lats. I used to start too far in front of the bar, this cue reminds me to keep back and my lats tight. As many have stated here, power off the floor is all leg drive but if you don't stay tight you'll just hinge forward, shoot your hips up and stiff leg it anyway.