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  1. #1
    Registered User shwick's Avatar
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    "athletes require 68 to 97 grams of protein"

    michaelbluejay.com/veg/protein

    I've wanted to become a vegetarian but never took the leap simply because I couldn't get enough protein.

    Was I wrong all along? Do I only need 68g of protein daily?
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    All of that is incorrect. It's very possible to get enough protein from a vegetarian diet.
    How did you manage to find that article and none if the 10 billion threads per day on protein requirements?
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    Registered User shwick's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FitTimbo17 View Post
    All of that is incorrect. It's very possible to get enough protein from a vegetarian diet.
    How did you manage to find that article and none if the 10 billion threads per day on protein requirements?
    stickies say 1g/lb protein of lean body mass required
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  4. #4
    力 Do You Even Powerlift 力 CJ93UK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FitTimbo17 View Post
    All of that is incorrect. It's very possible to get enough protein from a vegetarian diet.
    How did you manage to find that article and none if the 10 billion threads per day on protein requirements?
    This guy has it right.

    Nutrition section, Emma's thread on calculating calories and macronutrients, check it. I can vouch for it, most people here rely on it as a very credible source of information, anything you can get from it will likely be a better figure to follow.

    I'm not a vegetarian, I eat meat, but for the past few weeks, save a day or 2, I've gone without any, and still manage to hit my calories and macros, protein included, 200 grams a day, with ease.

    You need more than 68 grams of protein daily optimally, and you can quite easily hit that without meat.
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    Registered User shwick's Avatar
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    How much protein do I need per day if I weigh ~200lbs ~18% bf? I lift weights once every 5 days and do HIIT twice a week.

    I would be curious to know what vegetables and how much you ate to hit the protein macro.
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    力 Do You Even Powerlift 力 CJ93UK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shwick View Post
    How much protein do I need per day if I weigh ~200lbs ~18% bf? I lift weights once every 5 days and do HIIT twice a week.

    I would be curious to know what vegetables and how much you ate to hit the protein macro.
    You only lift once every 5 days? What routine are you on? To quote Emma

    Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh
    1. Protein: Protein intake is a bit of a controversial issue in nutrition. The general recommendations given in the 'bodybuilding' area are nearly double the 'standard' recommendations given in the Sports Nutrition Arena.
    So - GENERAL sports nutrition guideline based on clinical trials suggest that in the face of ADEQUATE calories and CARBS the following protein intakes are sufficient:
    STRENGTH training -> 1.4 to 2g per KG bodyweight (about .6 / pound)
    ENDURANCE training -> 1.2 to 1.8g per KG bodyweight (about .8 / pound)
    ADOLESCENT in training -> 1.8 to 2.2g per KG bodyweight (about 1g / pound)
    BUT this is 'sufficient' intakes for training. One should note that ADEQUATE v's OPTIMAL is not discussed when it comes to hypertrophy v's 'athlete performance'.
    Researchers also acknowledge that protein becomes MORE important in the context of LOWER calorie intakes, or LOWER carb intakes.
    Recent evidence also suggests that protein intakes of 2.2-3g/kg help with LEAN MASS RETENTION, and the physiological and psychological stressors associated with high volume or intense training.
    Also - Anecdotally, most find HIGHER protein intake better for satiety, partitioning, blood sugar control, and hypertrophy. So UNLESS you have medical reasons for lower protein, or unless guided by your sports nutritionist or physician to use the GENERAL sports nutrition guidelines, I would suggest BODYBUILDING values.

    General 'bodybuilding' guidelines for protein as follows:
    - Moderate bodyfat, Moderate training load, moderate calorie = 2.0-2.6g per kg TOTAL weight (about 0.9-1.2g per pound)
    - Low bodyfat or Very Low Calorie, Low Carb, High training load = 2.2-3g per kg TOTAL weight (1.0-1.35g per pound)
    - High bodyfat, high calorie, Low training load = 1.6 to 2.2g per kg TOTAL weight (.75-1g per pound)
    it depends on your training and other areas of your diet. As she notes, different activities and activity levels can require vastly different quantities of protein, plus there's sufficient, then there's optimal. I doubt you would utilise large quantities of protein lifting only 5-6x/month, however you picked out the athletic recommendation figures, are you an athlete? Depending on what you do could greatly vary your optimal protein intake, but the figures above should give a rough idea, if you fall close to any of those categories.

    Most vegetables and fruit I eat don't contain hardly any protein, at best they'll account for 10-20 grams per day, I don't view em as sufficient a protein source. Most dairy products, milk, eggs, cheese, greek yoghurt, all very good sources, along with beans, peanuts, random other ****, the majority of my intake comes from things like that. I'm eating a meal right now of close to 100 grams of protein, and 90% of that's come from just beans, eggs, and milk. Cheese can account for 10-15 grams of protein a day for me, greek yoghurt can add up to 20 grams easily, looking at it like this, it's not unusual for me to reach 2/3 of my daily protein needs in a single meal if I want to. Not just with those named here, almost all foods contain protein, they all add on extra. Beans, eggs, toast, yoghurt, milk, a simple breakfast for me, in fact I'd probably add a lot more to that, but those alone could exceed 150 grams of protein if I had fair qualities of each, and I often do. I'm not gonna run through my entire diet, I eat what I want, I get what I need, but even just by the foods I've given here, it should be easy to see hitting 200 a day, across multiple meals, without meat, isn't all too hard, high quantities of high protein foods, dairy especially, and you shouldn't have much of a problem. Then account for the fact that everything else you eat will add additional protein, and your target should be easy, it just takes some getting the hang of it.
    Last edited by CJ93UK; 03-03-2014 at 10:00 PM.
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  7. #7
    Registered User VerdantSF's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shwick View Post
    I would be curious to know what vegetables and how much you ate to hit the protein macro.
    I'm vegetarian and I get around 130-140 grams of protein on most days.





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  8. #8
    Registered User shwick's Avatar
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    I'm on full body routine and I lift once every 4-5 days depending on my recovery, it sometimes is longer because of thai.

    hmmm thanks I'm really liking the pumpkin seed macros

    verdant what makes you go with 130-140g of protein a day? CJ how much protein a day do you eat and why?

    edit: I would probably want to go vegan so no dairy and I'm still not sure if I can hit the protein macros.

    Also soy milk has soy which is bad for testosterone, same with tofu.
    Last edited by shwick; 03-04-2014 at 08:48 AM.
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  9. #9
    Perfection is not enough. Former300lber's Avatar
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    Natural trainees = 100-150g of protein will be sufficient to maintain or gain lean mass, if you enjoy taking in more protein, then by all means.
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    Originally Posted by shwick View Post
    Also soy milk has soy which is bad for testosterone, same with tofu.
    I don't have it all the time, but in moderation it's fine. I had some milk chocolate this morning, but I'll get back to you later with some veganish, soy-free macros.
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    0.6 g/lb - 0.82 g/lb is optimal on a bulk

    http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-...-bodybuilders/
    Just hit your macros/calories/micros and lift heavy -> this is the formula for success
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    Registered User shwick's Avatar
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    K so say I have 170lbs of lbm, given my workout schedule would 170*.7 = 120g protein be good enough? I aim for 150 right now.

    I would like to take in a bit on the less side protein so I can eat vegan easier. I aim for the 25% carbs 50% fats 25% protein split. If I'm cutting on a 2000 calorie diet I come up with like,

    500 cals sun dried tomatoes, 28.7g p
    105 cals 450g spinach, 13.5g p
    1847.75 cals 414g pumpkin seeds, 77.8g p
    = 120g p

    except thats 2452.75 cals =/
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    Originally Posted by shwick View Post
    I'm on full body routine and I lift once every 4-5 days depending on my recovery, it sometimes is longer because of thai.

    hmmm thanks I'm really liking the pumpkin seed macros

    verdant what makes you go with 130-140g of protein a day? CJ how much protein a day do you eat and why?

    edit: I would probably want to go vegan so no dairy and I'm still not sure if I can hit the protein macros.

    Also soy milk has soy which is bad for testosterone, same with tofu.
    Get on a non-crappy FB routine. Lifting once to twice a week is not gonna yield you good results no matter what your diet is like. The point of a FB routine is to be efficient, but you still need to be in the gym a few times a week.
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    ^^^ This x2.


    Originally Posted by digistp View Post
    0.6 g/lb - 0.82 g/lb is optimal on a bulk

    http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-...-bodybuilders/
    Minor correction: that intake is sufficient to optimize muscle development/retention, but that does not mean that consuming more protein as a function of personal preference is less than optimal.
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    Originally Posted by shwick View Post
    K so say I have 170lbs of lbm, given my workout schedule would 170*.7 = 120g protein be good enough? I aim for 150 right now.

    I would like to take in a bit on the less side protein so I can eat vegan easier. I aim for the 25% carbs 50% fats 25% protein split. If I'm cutting on a 2000 calorie diet I come up with like,

    500 cals sun dried tomatoes, 28.7g p
    105 cals 450g spinach, 13.5g p
    1847.75 cals 414g pumpkin seeds, 77.8g p
    = 120g p

    except thats 2452.75 cals =/

    Never do a ratio on macros. There is no minimum for carbs. You want roughly .8g protein per lb and .4g fat per pound. Then you fill in the rest up to your calorie goal with what ever you like, probably carbs.


    And what kind of ridiculous plan is that you have listed there? Your diet will consist of tomatoes, spinach and pumpkin seeds? Do you have no common sense?
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    Originally Posted by shwick View Post
    I aim for the 25% carbs 50% fats 25% protein split.
    Ratios like that are nonsense-- Calculate your macros based on you, not some arbitrary percentages. While it's been said before, go see the sticky on calculating macros!
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    @Lvisaa2 bra its hard doing weights and muay thai I need to recover
    @WonderPug k
    @Mdenatale k. Also, you're a dick. Try getting the required amount of protein from a vegan diet tool.
    @Voltri I found that ratio worked well enough for me but I will change it if it means getting the required protein
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  18. #18
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    I strive to get at least 130g of protein per day because I weigh 130 lbs. However, if it's a workout day, I'll try to have a little more, since I also eat 200 more calories a day on workout days. Although I am not a vegetarian, I do get a lot of my protein from non-meat sources because it is less expensive and requires little or no cooking time. My diet regularly includes soy milk (organic, if it matters), egg whites, whole eggs, Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, and protein shakes/bars after working out.

    For breakfast, I use 2 egg whites (0.33 cup) and 0.25 cup soy milk in my oatmeal. Very effective way to get my protein in.
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    NASM CPT, FNS Voltri's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shwick View Post
    @Voltri I found that ratio worked well enough for me but I will change it if it means getting the required protein
    "Well enough" works well enough, but when the information is a click away, why not have what works "optimally"? A random ratio doesn't know anything about you-- What might be an acceptable amount of protein for one person using these canned setups would be horrible for somebody else.
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    Registered User shwick's Avatar
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    @Voltri tbh I did that ratio because it was the same ratio that the lakers dietician wanted them to do, I'm assuming you mean experiment to see which is best
    thats fine but first I need to figure out how to get enough protein
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    NASM CPT, FNS Voltri's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shwick View Post
    @Voltri tbh I did that ratio because it was the same ratio that the lakers dietician wanted them to do, I'm assuming you mean experiment to see which is best
    thats fine but first I need to figure out how to get enough protein
    The question would be, though, are you on the Lakers?

    I digress. Again, there's a thread that explicitely outlines how to figure out your macros based on you, and not what a professional sports team's RD said.

    On the subject of protein sources, if you plan on going vegan, there are options out there-- I'm not vegan myself, but I know that rice protein with 3g - 5g of added Leucine (in the form of cheap leucine powder) has a similar amino acid profile to Whey. Couple that with some coconut milk (or soy milk, almond milk, etc.), and you can have a quick source of 30+g protein.
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    Originally Posted by shwick View Post
    @Lvisaa2 bra its hard doing weights and muay thai I need to recover
    @WonderPug k
    @Mdenatale k. Also, you're a dick. Try getting the required amount of protein from a vegan diet tool.
    @Voltri I found that ratio worked well enough for me but I will change it if it means getting the required protein

    Right back at ya buddy.


    Why does vegan mean you only have 3 foods to choose from? Seriously, you're going to eat nearly half a kilo of pumpkin seeds every day? Have you researched vegan diets and vegan body builders at all or are you just going in blind?
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    Originally Posted by WonderPug View Post
    ^^^ This x2.


    Minor correction: that intake is sufficient to optimize muscle development/retention, but that does not mean that consuming more protein as a function of personal preference is less than optimal.
    Ah yes, I see what you're saying. I will clarify in the future.
    Just hit your macros/calories/micros and lift heavy -> this is the formula for success
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  24. #24
    Registered User VerdantSF's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shwick View Post
    Try getting the required amount of protein from a vegan diet...
    Here's my food for today. I hit my protein macro without soy or protein powders and even had room for a little chocolate indulgence. The chocolate was the only thing that happened to not be vegan.



    It wasn't all that hard, even though I'm not vegan. Plus, if you get a vegan protein powder, it makes things even easier. Just try to get most of your protein from actual food, since that'll help cover micros, too.
    Last edited by VerdantSF; 03-04-2014 at 08:19 PM.
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    I'm actually going to have to agree with Jason Blaha on this one. Protein requirements are vastly overstated in the fitness/supplement industry.
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    Registered User shwick's Avatar
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    k I'm gonna try vegan again, the magic food is spinach, I can boil 2 pounds for 40g of protein if I need to
    edit: crap spinach is part of the dirty dozen, guess its asparagus

    @Voltri yeah i am on the lakers actually
    @Mdenatale wasn't about the variety of foods was trying to get enough protein
    @VerdantSF thanks those charts have been very helpful rep++
    Last edited by shwick; 03-05-2014 at 01:53 PM.
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