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  1. #1
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    US and EU sponsored coup in Ukraine and its implications (details & long read inside)

    Read a really good analysis of the situation over at Moon of Alabama (if any of you guys haven't heard of it you should check it out)
    cliffs at end



    The U.S. and EU sponsored coup against the elected government and president of the Ukraine had several strategic implications and aims. One of them is the Black Sea base of the Russian Navy which is used to supply and defend Syria. A takeover of the government in Kiev was necessary but not sufficient to neutralize the base as a strategic Russian asset. To do that a takeover of the local government of the Crimea and all its powers would also have to take place. The Crimea is historically Russian and most of it inhabitants are Russians. There is also a rather small minority of Tatars of Muslim heritage.

    There seem to have been plans in place to use that minority to help with a takeover of the Crimean government by the "western" sponsored coup-government in Kiev.

    In mid December 2013(!) the Turkish website Aydinlik Daily reported:

    According to news appearing in the French, Ukrainian and Russian press, Turkish Intelligence has a finger in the ongoing pro-EU protests in Ukraine. News stories from these three nations have claimed that the governmental intelligence organization of Turkey, the National Intelligence Organization (MİT) organized the transfer of separatist, jihadist Tatars trained in Turkey to the Ukraine. According to French news site Egalite et Réconciliation, dozens of Crimean Tatar Jihadists were extracted from Syria by the MİT and transferred to Ukraine via Turkey on an İstanbul-Sevastopol flight of Turkish Airlines on the 22 November. According to information based on sources from the Security Service of Ukraine, (SBU), Crimean Tatars who attended the protests in Ukraine's capital Kiev on November 21 were charged with establishing the security of the square. The Crimean security staff who obtained the support of separatist "Azatlık" movement operating in Russian city of Kazan received political support from Nail Nabiullin, the current president of Tatar Youth League in Azatlık.

    (source: http://www.aydinlikdaily.com/M%C4%B0...9s-Behalf-1555)


    An February 26, shortly after the Kiev coup-government was installed, Tataric groups rioted in the Crimean capital:

    In Crimea, fistfights broke out between rival demonstrators in the regional capital of Simferopol when some 20,000 Muslim Tatars rallying in support of Ukraine's interim leaders clashed with a smaller pro-Russian rally.
    The protesters shouted and attacked each other with stones, bottles and punches, as police and leaders of both rallies struggled to keep the two groups apart.

    One health official said at least 20 people were injured, while the local health ministry said one person died from an apparent heart attack. Tatar leaders said there was a second fatality when a woman was trampled to death by the crowd. Authorities did not confirm that.


    (source: http://www.wsfa.com/story/24824404/u...divided-crimea)


    Voice of Russia reports about an alleged Anonymous hack of emails between the coup plotters in Kiev and a Tatar leader:

    Hackers posted a quote from one of the emails:
    "Everything is going according to the plan. We are ready to proceed with the second part of the play. As agreed earlier last week, my guys together with people from the "Karpatskaya Sech" and UNA-UNSO will arrive wherever is needed and with the necessary weapons. You only need to let us know the addresses of the warehouses in Simferopol, Sevastopol, Kerch, Feodosia and Yalta, and the time of the meeting...Don't worry about the money, everything will be fine, just a little bit later. In the end, you know that if we succeed, you will get a lot more."

    According to the text, the neo-Nazi organization "Trizub imeni Stepan Bandera" along with "Karpatskaya Sech " and UNA-UNSO are ready to fulfill all the dirty work: to kill, burn and banish all the opponents of Maidan from Crimea. Crimean Tatars should "only" provide them with "instruments", ie weapons and store them in the most important cities of the Crimea.

    A lot of people might consider that the Ukrainian nationalists and Crimean Tatars pursue different goals, and their union at first glance looks quite unnatural. However, they have one aim in common, which is to eliminate the Russian-speaking population from the Crimean region and for that their «union» is neccessary in pursuing the common strategic objective.

    It is also important to note that Aslan Omer Kyrymly is the founder of several companies and president of the board of the Crimean International Business Association (CIBA). He controls serious financial flows associated with various business projects, both in Ukraine and abroad. It is believed that Aslan Omer Kyrymly is a true leader of the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatars.


    (source: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_0...an-email-8716/)


    Anonymous (or Russian intelligence) earlier published emails (http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_0...-treason-3581/) between coup-plotter Klitschko and the Lithuanian government.


    On February 27 Russian forces stationed in the Crimea and supported by allegedly local paramilitary took over security at two airports and of some government buildings in Crimean cities. A Turkish flight to Simferopol airport was called back and further Turkish fights to Crimea were canceled. The Turkish foreign minister Davutoglu announced that he would today visit the coup-government in Kiev:

    "Crimea is important in Ukraine due to its strategic location, multi-ethnic and multi-faith formation. It is difficult to maintain peace in Eurasia unless it is secured in Ukraine. Likewise, maintaining peace in the Black Sea is difficult unless it is secured in Crimea," [Davutoglu] added.
    ...
    The status of Crimea amid the Ukraine crisis cannot be determined without Turkey playing a role, a deputy from Turkey’s ruling AK Party said Friday.
    "Turkish Foreign Minister [Ahmet] Davutoglu's visit to Ukraine is an indication of Turkey's intention to be proactive in developments in Crimea," Samil Tayyar told the Anadolu Agency.
    ...
    Two Turkish Airlines flights from Istanbul to the Crimean capital of Simferopol on Friday night have been canceled amid escalating tension on the peninsula.
    ...
    Early Friday, another Turkish airline, Atlasjet, cancelled a flight to Simferopol after media reports that Simferopol International Airport had been seized by armed groups.


    (source: http://www.worldbulletin.net/todays-...ghts-to-crimea)


    An alleged attempt by coup forces to seize the interior ministry of the Crimea tonight was repelled. In Kiev anti-Russian Tatars call for more trouble:

    Meanwhile, Tatar lawmaker Mustafa Dzhemilev of Batkivshchyna has asked acting President Oleksandr Turchynov to deploy the entire Ukrainian army to Crimea.
    “I spoke with Turchynov that all of our military might should be deployed to Crimea. There are no threats in other oblasts yet. Call a state of emergency and take control,” said Dzhemilev cited by RBK-Ukraine.


    (sources: http://rt.com/news/russia-crimea-sieze-gunmen-344/ and http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukra...es-337942.html)

    CLIFFS

    The picture emerging from the above seems to show that:

    -Turkish intelligence helped with training Tatars in support of a local Crimea anti-Russian coup
    -Russian intelligence has thoroughly penetrated the coup-plotters communications (see Nuland tape) and knew what was coming
    -Russian aligned forces secured the Crimea and prevented infiltration of more Tataric units from Turkey
    -On the Crimea, as well as in other Russian aligned areas in east Ukraine (Donetsk, Mykolaiv and Dnipropetrovsk), counter coups are establishing separate regions which will ask for Russian support and eventual incorporation into the Russian Federation
    -If all this goes well for the Russians the "western" coup in Kiev will have resulted in the "west" acquiring a bankrupt, dirt poor west Ukraine while Russia will acquire the industry and resource rich east Ukraine and will keep the Crimea as its strategic asset
    -In the context of the war of Syria the coup in the Ukraine was a countermeasure to Russian support for Syria. Unless the Crimea falls to coup forces that countermeasure will have failed.
    -There is little the U.S. can say against Russian troops in Crimea. According to the status of force agreement Russia can post up to 30,000 soldiers there. The normal size of its forces there is just half of that. If Russia wants to reinforce those it can do so without breaking any national or international agreement.

    inb4 wall of text
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  2. #2
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    Stopped reading after email. I've read more convincing "secret black ops communications" in video games.
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  4. #4
    Methodological Naturalism tk217's Avatar
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    CT all over this thread.
    ../l、.........................../:\ ̄\
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    Originally Posted by tk217 View Post
    CT all over this thread.
    Pretty much this.
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  6. #6
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    We have two groups living in one country, and the Russian group under Stalin long ago murdered millions of the Ukrainian group. I'm surprised that Ukraine held together this long.

    The Ukrainian leadership probably realized a while ago that the country was going to split apart and they decided to get into the EU as quickly as possible. This is very wise given the history of their northern neighbor.

    Also I doubt any sort of real CT here. The former prez was trying to thwart the Ukrainians move toward the EU and that scared hell out of the Ukrainians. They don't want to be under the thumb of any more Russian autocrats.
    (1) Go Navy, beat Army!

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    In on CT loonie thread

    Sauces included: RT and Voice Of Russia, rofl
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    In on its the US's fault thread
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    Originally Posted by John L View Post
    In on CT loonie thread

    Sauces included: RT and Voice Of Russia, rofl
    This. So the US wanted the black sea naval base? Lol if the US wanted to attack syria, there is nothing stopping it. It sure isn't the Russian navy which is smaller than the US coast guard....
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    Originally Posted by John L View Post
    In on CT loonie thread

    Sauces included: RT and Voice Of Russia, rofl
    Ct thread? buncha retards its no secret the US gov funded several ngos and CIA had a huge role in these protests for "democracy." You laugh at RT yet everything they report is is the plain simple reality unlike your distorted msm. Please bring me any report, whether an article or on tv from RT that is false or a lie. You wont find any. Also nice sig explains a lot you fool. Your kind is EXPOSED ALL AROUND THE WORLD.
    Originally Posted by Rockchalk0420 View Post
    This. So the US wanted the black sea naval base? Lol if the US wanted to attack syria, there is nothing stopping it. It sure isn't the Russian navy which is smaller than the US coast guard....
    Ultimately the west wants Ukraine to join the EU then become part of NATO so they can put NATO military bases along Russias border so they can put pressure on Russia economically, miliarily and also spy on them but Putin being an ex- KGB Intelligence officer he knows the game and isnt a fool. Ofcourse they can be stopped if they tried to attack Syria. Dont think US is so superior with your 17 trillion debt that youll never pay off only a matter of time before the american empire collapases and you know whos going to decide when that happens? Ask mr John L that from the JIDF crew.
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    Originally Posted by CoMqLeXx View Post
    Ct thread? buncha retards its no secret the US gov funded several ngos and CIA had a huge role in these protests for "democracy." You laugh at RT yet everything they report is is the plain simple reality unlike your distorted msm. Please bring me any report, whether an article or on tv from RT that is false or a lie. You wont find any. Also nice sig explains a lot you fool. Your kind is EXPOSED ALL AROUND THE WORLD.
    rofl
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by John L View Post
    rofl
    I challenge you to bring any TV or article report which is false.
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    Originally Posted by CoMqLeXx View Post
    I challenge you to bring any TV or article report which is false.
    Russia Today is a state media outlet. There is a lot of propaganda on it. Propaganda =/= "false", propaganda is biased, cherry picked information and that's what Russia Today contains. For example, in RT's stories on Viktor Bout, they consider him to be a "businessman" rather than an arms smuggler.
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    Originally Posted by John L View Post
    Russia Today is a state media outlet. There is a lot of propaganda on it. Propaganda =/= "false", propaganda is biased, cherry picked information and that's what Russia Today contains. For example, in RT's stories on Viktor Bout, they consider him to be a "businessman" rather than an arms smuggler.
    I agree that there could be cherry picked stories like about Viktor but im speaking on news reporting, interviews etc. they dont cover up or show only one side and spew lies like the msm does about Syria or Libya for example. They also report news many american I think would find 'disturbing' if it was shown to them through there own MSM for ex Monsanto and GM crops you never hear anything about them on the msm. But I understand why youd hate them fully.
    Last edited by CoMqLeXx; 03-02-2014 at 11:11 PM.
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    Originally Posted by CoMqLeXx View Post
    I agree that there could be cherry picked stories like about Viktor but im speaking on news reporting, interviews etc. they dont cover up or show only one side and spew lies like the msm does about Syria or Libya for example.
    Their coverage on Syria is extremely biased towards Assad. And you have to sift through conspiracy theory stories like the one they ran about Bin Ladens body being shipped to the US on a CIA plane. It's a Kremlin funded sate media outlet.
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    If there were a conspiracy at work, it being Kremlin backed would be more logical. Kremlin manufacture a revolt to destabilize Ukraine, and use protecting their military assets and people as pretense for the annexation of Crimea.
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    Originally Posted by John L View Post
    Their coverage on Syria is extremely biased towards Assad. And you have to sift through conspiracy theory stories like the one they ran about Bin Ladens body being shipped to the US on a CIA plane. It's a Kremlin funded sate media outlet.
    Damn thats weird because CNN is extremly biased towards radical terrorists. Even about the CT story why not ? I find it more of a conspiracy that the US didnt show the worlds most wanted mans body and said they burried it at sea....right. But im done talking. I know how you work youll just strain my brain.
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    Originally Posted by CoMqLeXx View Post
    Damn thats weird because CNN is extremly biased towards radical terrorists. Even about the CT story why not ? I find it more of a conspiracy that the US didnt show the worlds most wanted mans body and said they burried it at sea....right. But im done talking. I know how you work youll just strain my brain.
    Yet they still run stories on Al Qaedas presence in the rebel forces. Good luck finding an RT article condemning Assad about anything. Hell, RT's source on their Syria claims are Assad himself lol.

    Lulz yeah it's more of a conspiracy that OBL is dead and buried than him being flown back on a CIA plane. Why do CT loonies take RT as gospel? All you hear from them when a western source is posted is "Lulz, FOX Newz, CNN lolol Murika" and then when a Kremlin funded state media article is posted, it's "Oh hey, no problem, the story fits into how I want to see it happening, and the story blames who I want to blame" etc. etc.
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    Originally Posted by John L View Post
    Yet they still run stories on Al Qaedas presence in the rebel forces. Good luck finding an RT article condemning Assad about anything. Hell, RT's source on their Syria claims are Assad himself lol.

    Lulz yeah it's more of a conspiracy that OBL is dead and buried than him being flown back on a CIA plane. Why do CT loonies take RT as gospel? All you hear from them when a western source is posted is "Lulz, FOX Newz, CNN lolol Murika" and then when a Kremlin funded state media article is posted, it's "Oh hey, no problem, the story fits into how I want to see it happening, and the story blames who I want to blame" etc. etc.
    Why a need to condemn Assad hes not killing innocent people.. but people who are terrorists and extremist radical groups from all over the world. The terrorists are the ones killing innocent people. Your probably believe that Assad was the one who launched chemical weapons too lmao! Dont worry I dont take RT as a gospel nor am I some CT junkie. I just know the reality and how this world works. The reason many people are so quick to judge anything from CNN fox etc etc and not RT is because Russia doesnt have a track record of conspiring with terrorists , funding terrorists, invading soveriegn countries, having warmongering politicians, or a zionist lobby or being the most complete hypocritical nation on earth...

    list of the countries bombed by the United States since the end of the Second World War:

    Afghanistan 1998, 2001- 
    Bosnia 1994, 1995 
    Cambodia 1969-70 
    China 1945-46, 1950-53 
    Congo 1964 
    Cuba 1959-1961 
    El Salvador 1980s 
    Korea 1950-53
    Guatemala 1954, 1960, 1967-69
    Indonesia 1958 
    Laos 1964-73
    Grenada 1983 
    Iraq 1991-2000s 
    Iran 1987
    Kuwait 1991 
    Lebanon 1983, 1984
    Libya 1986, 2011 
    Nicaragua 1980s Pakistan 2003, 2006-
    Palestine 2010 
    Panama 1989 
    Peru 1965 
    Somalia 1993, 2007-08, 2010- 
    Sudan 1998 
    Vietnam 1961-73 
    Yemen 2002, 2009- 
    Yugoslavia 1999

    and who knows what else with all the little toy drones obamas got flying everywhere now do you understand why people are so quick to judge
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  22. #22
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    Originally Posted by CoMqLeXx View Post
    Why a need to condemn Assad hes not killing innocent people
    LOL

    nor am I some CT junkie, I just know the reality and how this world works.
    LOL

    Russia doesnt have a track record of conspiring with terrorists , funding terrorists, invading soveriegn countries, having warmongering politicians, or a zionist lobby or being the most complete hypocritical nation on earth...
    Oh my god. This has to be a troll post at this point

    list of the countries bombed by the United States since the end of the Second World War:
    Afghanistan 1998, 2001- 
    Bosnia 1994, 1995 
    Cambodia 1969-70 
    China 1945-46, 1950-53 [/QUOTE]

    Stopped reading here, nice propaganda list though. Lol CT loonies.
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  24. #24
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    Originally Posted by CoMqLeXx View Post
    Ultimately the west wants Ukraine to join the EU then become part of NATO so they can put NATO military bases along Russias border so they can put pressure on Russia economically, miliarily and also spy on them but Putin being an ex- KGB Intelligence officer he knows the game and isnt a fool.
    How would a NATO military base put pressure on Russia economically? That makes no sense. I think at best, it would act as a deterrent to future Russian adventurism into Ukraine...but that's about all a NATO base would do. US trade with Russia accounts for a paltry 2% of all US trade. So it isn't like the US has a lot of economical leverage over Russia at this stage. They were talking about a new trade deal to boost trade between the two countries. I suppose that can be put on hold if not scrapped...

    Ofcourse they can be stopped if they tried to attack Syria. Dont think US is so superior with your 17 trillion debt that youll never pay off only a matter of time before the american empire collapases and you know whos going to decide when that happens? Ask mr John L that from the JIDF crew.
    Well, in terms of strategic military assets, Russia has no leverage over the US. The US navy is ENORMOUS compared to Russias. Not only does the US enjoy a numerical advatage over Russia in most regards concerning military, but there is also a qualitative technological advantage over Russia that the US continues to enjoy... If sh*t were to ever hit the proverbial fan, and Russia were to send naval assets to confront a superior USN, it would result in Russia actively providing the material needed for a new artificial reef in the region.
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    Originally Posted by CoMqLeXx View Post
    Why a need to condemn Assad hes not killing innocent people.. but people who are terrorists and extremist radical groups from all over the world. The terrorists are the ones killing innocent people. Your probably believe that Assad was the one who launched chemical weapons too lmao! Dont worry I dont take RT as a gospel nor am I some CT junkie. I just know the reality and how this world works. The reason many people are so quick to judge anything from CNN fox etc etc and not RT is because Russia doesnt have a track record of conspiring with terrorists , funding terrorists, invading soveriegn countries, having warmongering politicians, or a zionist lobby or being the most complete hypocritical nation on earth...

    list of the countries bombed by the United States since the end of the Second World War:

    Afghanistan 1998, 2001- 
    Bosnia 1994, 1995 
    Cambodia 1969-70 
    China 1945-46, 1950-53 
    Congo 1964 
    Cuba 1959-1961 
    El Salvador 1980s 
    Korea 1950-53
    Guatemala 1954, 1960, 1967-69
    Indonesia 1958 
    Laos 1964-73
    Grenada 1983 
    Iraq 1991-2000s 
    Iran 1987
    Kuwait 1991 
    Lebanon 1983, 1984
    Libya 1986, 2011 
    Nicaragua 1980s Pakistan 2003, 2006-
    Palestine 2010 
    Panama 1989 
    Peru 1965 
    Somalia 1993, 2007-08, 2010- 
    Sudan 1998 
    Vietnam 1961-73 
    Yemen 2002, 2009- 
    Yugoslavia 1999

    and who knows what else with all the little toy drones obamas got flying everywhere now do you understand why people are so quick to judge
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  26. #26
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    Originally Posted by Rockchalk0420 View Post
    How would a NATO military base put pressure on Russia economically? That makes no sense. I think at best, it would act as a deterrent to future Russian adventurism into Ukraine...but that's about all a NATO base would do. US trade with Russia accounts for a paltry 2% of all US trade. So it isn't like the US has a lot of economical leverage over Russia at this stage. They were talking about a new trade deal to boost trade between the two countries. I suppose that can be put on hold if not scrapped...
    Most of Russias Natural gas pipelines run through Ukraine and there a huge exporter of natural gas. Its not the nato base itself that would put pressure economically but the fact that Ukraine will become part of EU and join Nato which in turn will give US that econo leverage.


    Well, in terms of strategic military assets, Russia has no leverage over the US. The US navy is ENORMOUS compared to Russias. Not only does the US enjoy a numerical advatage over Russia in most regards concerning military, but there is also a qualitative technological advantage over Russia that the US continues to enjoy... If sh*t were to ever hit the proverbial fan, and Russia were to send naval assets to confront a superior USN, it would result in Russia actively providing the material needed for a new artificial reef in the region.
    Yes probably but Russias isnt technologiclly inferior as to say they have no leverage for example there s400 and new s500 outclass the US patriot system. Lets not forget how great the us and russian military came to be all from Germany. All the technology was stolen after ww2 and scientists brought from Germany to US and Russia. It was basiccly a race between to the two to get to Berlin to steal all the documents secrets technology etc etc. Nuke is German invention , fighter jets German invention, Missiles german invention.... just to name a few.
    Last edited by CoMqLeXx; 03-03-2014 at 01:25 PM.
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    Originally Posted by CoMqLeXx View Post
    Most of Russias Natural gas pipelines run through Ukraine and there a huge exporter of natural gas. Its not the nato base itself that would put pressure economically but the fact that Ukraine will become part of EU and join Nato which in turn will give US that econo leverage.
    Well, that really doesn't make sense considering that that natural gas is going to supply energy to US allies in the EU. I'd say that that would be the least of Russias concerns...Unless countries dependent upon Natural Gas from Russia find an alternative overnight, Russia will still be a big provider of energy to several European countries.

    Yes probably but Russias isnt technologiclly inferior as to say they have no leverage for example there s400 and new s500 outclass the US patriot system.
    While I agree that the air defense systems Russia employs are state of the art, It would be intellectually dishonest to say that they are superior to the Pac-3 air defense missile system that the US employs. That is a $200+ billion dollar program that Russia simply cannot afford to compete with.

    Also, it remains to be seen how Russian air defense systems would do against an airforce that employs the type of aircraft that the US does. Not only do American aircraft have state of the art stealth tech, but the AESA radar and other electronic warfare capabilities on board these aircraft provide them with the necessary countermeasures to penetrate advanced air defense systems like Russias and come out on top every time.
    Last edited by Rockchalk0420; 03-03-2014 at 01:58 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Rockchalk0420 View Post
    Well, that really doesn't make sense considering that that natural gas is going to supply energy to US allies in the EU. I'd say that that would be the least of Russias concerns...Unless countries dependent upon Natural Gas from Russia find an alternative overnight, Russia will still be a big provider of energy to several European countries.



    While I agree that the air defense systems Russia employs are state of the art, It would be intellectually dishonest to say that they are superior to the Pac-3 air defense missile system that the US employs. That is a $200+ billion dollar program that Russia simply cannot afford to compete with.

    Also, it remains to be seen how Russian air defense systems would do against an airforce that employs the type of aircraft that the US does. Not only do American aircraft have state of the art stealth tech, but the AESA radar and other electronic warfare capabilities on board these aircraft provide them with the necessary countermeasures to penetrate advanced air defense systems like Russias and come out on top every time.
    good educated points but it is a fact that the s400 is superior to the pac 3 which is just an addition to further enhance the patriot system but you have to admit that Ukraine joining EU and then becoming part of Nato is going to affect Russia one way or the other and they are just looking out for national security and interests and its justified.

    edit: if you do some research you will see that Russia has technological responses to many of the US capabilities some of which are projects ongoing today. The real difference isnt technology but the size of equipment between the two.
    Last edited by CoMqLeXx; 03-03-2014 at 07:07 PM.
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    Originally Posted by CoMqLeXx View Post
    good educated points but it is a fact that the s400 is superior to the pac 3 which is just an addition to further enhance the patriot system but you have to admit that Ukraine joining EU and then becoming part of Nato is going to affect Russia one way or the other and they are just looking out for national security and interests and its justified.

    edit: if you do some research you will see that Russia has technological responses to many of the US capabilities some of which are projects ongoing today. The real difference isnt technology but the size of equipment between the two.
    I have a better understanding of US defense procedures than most people...As for the s400, it is a good system no doubt. But again, to say it is superior to the PAC-3 without a proper debate isn't imperial fact. The PAC-3 is also just one part of the US defense shield. The US also has the SM-3 which uses the advanced AEGIS radar system. When it comes to US SAM defense systems employed America, the U.S. has a layered defense system approach when it comes to protecting its military assets. American radars have always been superior to Russias, as well as their precision weapons.

    Also bare in mind that the largest defense contractors in the world are American. Also that the US military Research and development budget of $81 billion alone is larger than Russia entire annual military budget of $68 billion. While Russia has a powerful military, it is no match for Americas qualitative superior force. They simply cannot afford to keep pace with the Americans in terms of projects because the funds are just not there for Russia. That is why you see them putting most of their money into SAMs like the S400 as well as updating their ICBM forces.
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    Originally Posted by CoMqLeXx View Post
    good educated points but it is a fact that the s400 is superior to the pac 3 which is just an addition to further enhance the patriot system but you have to admit that Ukraine joining EU and then becoming part of Nato is going to affect Russia one way or the other and they are just looking out for national security and interests and its justified.

    edit: if you do some research you will see that Russia has technological responses to many of the US capabilities some of which are projects ongoing today. The real difference isnt technology but the size of equipment between the two.
    Russian weapons are always superior to the Americans, ON PAPER. But battlefield experience and record are always the opposite. The Israelis have proven that repeatedly.
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