New muscletech product tomorow?

[BlueRev]

Why only loggers?? I was kinda hoping the other chunk of the consumers could go ahead and buy it themselves ? Will it be very shortly available after the promos and logs ?

What do you mean?
Loggers and product test team members will be able to try this product before it hits market.
When it hits it will be around for purchase for a long time.
I think you misunderstood :P

[rakan92]

What do you mean?
Loggers and product test team members will be able to try this product before it hits market.
When it hits it will be around for purchase for a long time.
I think you misunderstood :P

Sorry for the misunderstanding. What i meant to say is how long after the loggers start will it hit the shelves(bb.com store) ? Regardless of the loggers results, i am willing to try it for myself u know !....so the sooner, the better

[Quadzilla99]

Once you start throwing in a bunch of confounding variables like an increase in calories, the already n=1 anecdote is downgraded to complete potato.

Lol'd

[llahhsoj]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. What i meant to say is how long after the loggers start will it hit the shelves(bb.com store) ? Regardless of the loggers results, i am willing to try it for myself u know !....so the sooner, the better

We don't know an exact date yet. We wouldn't want to mention a date, not happen, and then disappoint someone.

[kissdadookie]

BOGO Phase8 was nice and all but I really think this HMB-FA product gains MT a good number of brownie points particularly when it's essentially first to market and based on a decent study.

[Mr.Cooper69]

I haven't had time to read the full text, but to anyone who has, was it stated why the free acid works so well while the traditional form(s) do not?

[kissdadookie]

I haven't had time to read the full text, but to anyone who has, was it stated why the free acid works so well while the traditional form(s) do not?

Bioavailibility + concentration in circulation.

[Ninjathoskinny]

Bioavailibility + concentration in circulation.

If bioavailability is the issue then

HMB + vinegar = HMB-fa.

But the HMB free acid itself is likely to condense to undesirable beta-methylacrylic acid. HMB is reversible metabolite supposed to exert maximal benefits via reversible transamination mediated by BCAA-aminotransferase, it's logical and cost effective to dose leucine at higher amounts instead of using gel one would think.

Remember the glutamine reviews from 2002? supplement sluts were reporting gamma radiation like strength and Lazarus pits like recovery and rejuvenation hitting the same body part high volume twice a day, 5 days a week, including gator wrestling on the weekends.

[kissdadookie]

If bioavailability is the issue then

HMB + vinegar = HMB-fa.

But the HMB free acid itself is likely to condense to undesirable beta-methylacrylic acid. HMB is reversible metabolite supposed to exert maximal benefits via reversible transamination mediated by BCAA-aminotransferase, it's logical and cost effective to dose leucine at higher amounts instead of using gel one would think.

Remember the glutamine reviews from 2002? supplement sluts were reporting gamma radiation like strength and Lazarus pits like recovery and rejuvenation hitting the same body part high volume twice a day, 5 days a week, including gator wrestling on the weekends.

:: shrugs ::

I got the info off suppversity :P

[BULLED]

If bioavailability is the issue then

HMB + vinegar = HMB-fa.
.

Wait! Are you telling me that HMB (Ca) + vinegar = HMB (Fa)? I can buy 500gr HMB (Ca) for about $20, dosing it at 3 gr per day, that's a over five months supplement of Clear Muscle?

[kissdadookie]

Wait! Are you telling me that HMB (Ca) + vinegar = HMB (Fa)? I can buy 500gr HMB (Ca) for about $20, dosing it at 3 gr per day, that's a over five months supplement of Clear Muscle?

^ I actually want to know if this is actually true. I know from all the reports, high dosing HMB-Ca seems to be notably anabolic (around 10 grams workout days, 5 grams non-lift day), so would this HMB-Ca + vinegar really be the equivalent of HMB-FA. Also, if this would work, wouldn't one have to account for the fact that HMB-Ca has less HMB-FA than straight HMB-FA on a gram for gram basis? So if cost is a factor, wouldn't the face value savings be negated?

Also, the other posters prior mention of just high dosing leucine is apparently not going to yield similar results to using HMB as apparently the work via different pathways (http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013...-bcaa.html?m=1). So that along with the study that just came out on HMB-FA, I think the assumptions made by the poster above (not you Bulled) would appear to be flawed and not apply in practice.

[neuron]

^ I actually want to know if this is actually true. I know from all the reports, high dosing HMB-Ca seems to be notably anabolic (around 10 grams workout days, 5 grams non-lift day), so would this HMB-Ca + vinegar really be the equivalent of HMB-FA. Also, if this would work, wouldn't one have to account for the fact that HMB-Ca has less HMB-FA than straight HMB-FA on a gram for gram basis? So if cost is a factor, wouldn't the face value savings be negated?

Also, the other posters prior mention of just high dosing leucine is apparently not going to yield similar results to using HMB as apparently the work via different pathways (http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013...-bcaa.html?m=1). So that along with the study that just came out on HMB-FA, I think the assumptions made by the poster above (not you Bulled) would appear to be flawed and not apply in practice.

You are mixing up two distinctly different concepts.

By mass, HMB is 40% of CaHMB and so 3 grams of CaHMB would yield 1.2 grams HMB.

Stoichiometrically,
1 mol C10H20CaO7 + CH3COOH -> 2 mols C5H1003 + Ca2+ + CH3COO- + H3O

3 g CaHMB (abbrev.) x 1 mol CaHMB/292.34 g x 2 mol HMB/1 mol HMB x 118.131 g/1 mol HMB = ~2.43 grams of HMB "free acid"

[kissdadookie]

You are mixing up two distinctly different concepts.

By mass, HMB is 40% of CaHMB and so 3 grams of CaHMB would yield 1.2 grams HMB.

Stoichiometrically,
1 mol C10H20CaO7 + CH3COOH -> 2 mols C5H1003 + Ca2+ + CH3COO- + H3O

3 g CaHMB (abbrev.) x 1 mol CaHMB/292.34 g x 2 mol HMB/1 mol HMB x 118.131 g/1 mol HMB = ~2.43 grams of HMB "free acid"

So, "kissdacookie," please explain why his "assumptions" would be flawed?

So there is that gram for gram difference (not as much as I thought though, thanks for clearing that up) but wouldn't the concentration able to reach circulation be different between FA and Ca? You may end up getting the same amount or similar amounts of HMB into your system overall but wouldn't the concentration in circulation play a significant role on how effective FA vs Ca would be? Isn't that a significant variable?

Then there was the other issue I was addressing when I stated that his assumptions were wrong which was he did mention that high dosing leucine would be similar to the HMB or did I misread that? From what I read on Suppversity, the two are not the same and goes through different pathways.

[neuron]

So there is that gram for gram difference (not as much as I thought though, thanks for clearing that up) but wouldn't the concentration able to reach circulation be different between FA and Ca? You may end up getting the same amount or similar amounts of HMB into your system overall but wouldn't the concentration in circulation play a significant role on how effective FA vs Ca would be? Isn't that a significant variable?

Once again you are confusing two different concepts. If you take the acetic acid + CaHMB reaction to completion with 100% yield, then the bioavailabilities will be identical (since they are literally identical compounds). If you are comparing CaHMB to HMB-Fa, then of course their will be pharmacokinetic differences, even if you account for molecular % differences.

[kissdadookie]

Once again you are confusing two different concepts. If you take the acetic acid + CaHMB reaction to completion with 100% yield, then the bioavailabilities will be identical (since they are literally identical compounds). If you are comparing CaHMB to HMB-Fa, then of course their will be pharmacokinetic differences, even if you account for molecular % differences.

So... If I was to take CaHMB and put it in vinegar... It will net me FA? So out of self interest, this would dissolve if I just let it sit there right? Would the vinegar have any effects good/bad if I ingested the whole thing?

[neuron]

So... If I was to take CaHMB and put it in vinegar... It will net me FA? So out of self interest, this would dissolve if I just let it sit there right? Would the vinegar have any effects good/bad if I ingested the whole thing?

How are you going to test the % yield? This is best left for the chemistry laboratory (with knowledge of p-chem), which is why I would not explicitly recommend it.

[Synapsin]

So... If I was to take CaHMB and put it in vinegar... It will net me FA? So out of self interest, this would dissolve if I just let it sit there right? Would the vinegar have any effects good/bad if I ingested the whole thing?

Don't do this.

[neuron]

Don't do this.

^With that said, the misc. seems to love apple cider vinegar.

CaHMB + apple cider vinegar = FTW?

[Hyruliangoat]

alright getting olive oil and hmb now.

[kissdadookie]

Don't do this.

Not going to if the yield is going to be uncertain and especially if copious amounts of vinegar would be needed :P I'm obviously not a chemist so that is that.

[Synapsin]

^With that said, the misc. seems to love apple cider vinegar.

CaHMB + apple cider vinegar = FTW?

Yeah apple cider vinegar is one of those things people are always talking about as an all in one folk remedy, pretty amusing stuff really. I wonder what the price point will be for this product.

[kissdadookie]

Yeah apple cider vinegar is one of those things people are always talking about as an all in one folk remedy, pretty amusing stuff really. I wonder what the price point will be for this product.

Does it actually do anything the vinegar? I barely cook with it and have it around seemingly to use as a solvent around the house :P

[powercage]

Apple cider vinegar and oil pulling all day every day


You'll never need a doctor again. Also you stop aging.

[ODoyle99]

Interesting conversation happening in here. Yield should be fairly high considering it's a one step reaction with few reactants.

the misc. seems to love apple cider vinegar.

CaHMB + apple cider vinegar = FTW?

I know a lot of people that like apple cider vinegar. Hmmmm

[El Conquistador]

Does it actually do anything the vinegar? I barely cook with it and have it around seemingly to use as a solvent around the house :P

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,797

Less posting, more lifting/eating!

[Synapsin]

Does it actually do anything the vinegar? I barely cook with it and have it around seemingly to use as a solvent around the house :P

nope, don't even bother, no proof it does anything and any study claiming it does has hilariously poor parameters

Apple cider vinegar and oil pulling all day every day


You'll never need a doctor again. Also you stop aging.

add in a colon cleanse and the internet will break

[xavengedx23]

You are mixing up two distinctly different concepts.

By mass, HMB is 40% of CaHMB and so 3 grams of CaHMB would yield 1.2 grams HMB.

Stoichiometrically,
1 mol C10H20CaO7 + CH3COOH -> 2 mols C5H1003 + Ca2+ + CH3COO- + H3O

3 g CaHMB (abbrev.) x 1 mol CaHMB/292.34 g x 2 mol HMB/1 mol HMB x 118.131 g/1 mol HMB = ~2.43 grams of HMB "free acid"

...I always hated stoichometry

[mentalist72]

...I always hated stoichometry

I love it

[kissdadookie]

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,797

Less posting, more lifting/eating!

I do plenty of both. It's the times I'm at the office that I go posting constantly :P

[mentalist72]

You are mixing up two distinctly different concepts.

By mass, HMB is 40% of CaHMB and so 3 grams of CaHMB would yield 1.2 grams HMB.

Stoichiometrically,
1 mol C10H20CaO7 + CH3COOH -> 2 mols C5H1003 + Ca2+ + CH3COO- + H3O

3 g CaHMB (abbrev.) x 1 mol CaHMB/292.34 g x 2 mol HMB/1 mol HMB x 118.131 g/1 mol HMB = ~2.43 grams of HMB "free acid"

Where did you get this equation from? Are you sure it's correct. The left side has a net charge of 0 while the right side has a net charge of +2.

I think a more likely equation would be:

C10H20CaO7 + 2CH3COOH -> 2C5H10O3 + Ca(CH3OO)2 + H2O

In the end, it's still a 1:2 stoic ratio between CaHMB and HMB, so your math is indeed correct (rep on recharge.)