Official MMDELAD Thread: Because Micros (and nutrition) Do Matter

[EjnarKolinkar]

However, most people with a fructose problem, have one because of eating too much process sugars not FRUIT.

QFT


Less than 40g Fructose from fruits and veg

Banana 225g 10.91g
Blueberry 140g 5.19g
Strawberry 300g 7.42g
Pineapple 330g 7g
Peas 300g 1.3g
Tomato 300g 4g
Onion Raw 160 2g
Sweet corn 300g 1g

That is quite a bit to eat. Hopefully I got all the math right :/ corn seems low though. Meh. Best I can muster at this time.



Source http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/nutrients/index


If one can't fit some fruit in their diet they would have to be prioritizing sucrose, or HFCS or eating an absolutely astonishing amount of vegetable matter for fructose to be a limiting factor. To each their own though.

[MikeWines]

INGREDIENTS: Enriched bleached flour (wheat flour, niacin, reduced iron, thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid, may contain malted barley flour), sugar, dextrose, leavening (sodium bicarbonate, sodium aluminum phosphate, monocalcium phosphate), soy flour, canola or soybean oil, salt, buttermilk, food starch-modified, sodium stearoyl lactylate.



^Thoughts gentlemen?

[LaViidaLocaa]

INGREDIENTS: Enriched bleached flour (wheat flour, niacin, reduced iron, thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid, may contain malted barley flour), sugar, dextrose, leavening (sodium bicarbonate, sodium aluminum phosphate, monocalcium phosphate), soy flour, canola or soybean oil, salt, buttermilk, food starch-modified, sodium stearoyl lactylate.

^Thoughts gentlemen?

I'm guessing pretzel or hot dog bun? Am I close?


Other topic:
I know a little sodium is essential for normal functions, but what about the upper end? Do you guys track sodium regarding health, not water retention?
Sodium is associated with several cancers, such as gastric cancer:

http://iai.asm.org/content/81/6/2258

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16450397 (prospective study, long follow-up, large group, very accurate)
"The results of prospective studies of the association between dietary salt intake and gastric cancer occurrence remain controversial. To examine this issue in a cohort study of a general population, 2,476 subjects aged 40 years or older were stratified into 4 groups according to the amount of daily salt intake: namely, <10.0, 10.0-12.9, 13.0-15.9, and > or = 16.0 per day and were followed up prospectively for 14 years. During the follow-up period, 93 subjects developed gastric cancer. The age- and sex-adjusted incidence was significantly higher in the second to fourth groups than in the first group (age- and sex-adjusted hazard ratio [95% confidence interval], 2.42 [1.24-4.71] for the second group; 2.10 [1.03-4.30] for the third group; 2.98 [1.53-5.82] for the fourth group). This association remained substantially unchanged even after adjusting for other confounding factors such as age, sex, Helicobacter pylori infection, atrophic gastritis, medical history of peptic ulcer, family history of cancer, body mass index, diabetes, total cholesterol, physical activity, alcohol intake, smoking habit and other dietary factors. In the stratified analysis, a significant salt-cancer association was observed only in subjects who had both Helicobacter pylori infection and atrophic gastritis (age- and sex-adjusted hazard ratio, 2.87 [1.14-7.24]). Our findings suggest that high dietary salt intake is a significant risk factor for gastric cancer; moreover, this association was found to be strong in the presence of Helicobacter pylori infection with atrophic gastritis."

Many other references: http://www.worldactiononsalt.com/sal...heets/stomach/

[unstrong]

Looks like pretty standard pancake mix to me (do i win?)

[gingersgym]

Curious on your guys thoughts on milk (dairy in general)... I have no studies but have noted a few things in my few years training/learning

(I eat 500g fat free greek yogurt per day btw with no obvious lactose intolerance effects)

1. many people pre contest cut dairy... not sure if its for sodium/hormones/insulin or something else?
2. Some fitness 'experts' recommend avoiding diary (inflammatory etc) but iv never seen a good enough reason to drop it?

[MichielN]

I fukin love milk. I always drink at least 1 liter per day, plus 500g quark. There are times I drink 2 liter per day. No lactose issues for me, feelsgoodman.jpg

[gingersgym]

I fukin love milk. I always drink at least 1 liter per day, plus 500g quark. There are times I drink 2 liter per day. No lactose issues for me, feelsgoodman.jpg

How I have felt regarding milk, however a few nutritionists online (Ben coomber podcast) have an avoid gluten/milk complex, with the gluten to an extent I understand iv never understood the milk argument

bar it making some sort of sense that its a bit weird consuming something from another animals titty... I haven't found much else

[MichielN]

tbh I've never found any anti-dairy argument to be sensical

[MikeWines]

I'm guessing pretzel or hot dog bun? Am I close?

Looks like pretty standard pancake mix to me (do i win?)

It is a pancake mix. I'm not a nutritionally savvy as some posters ITT so was wondering if there was anything in the ingredients profile that was something to look out for and avoid?

[ErikTheElectric]

It is a pancake mix. I'm not a nutritionally savvy as some posters ITT so was wondering if there was anything in the ingredients profile that was something to look out for and avoid?

It's pancake mix, I don't see any hydrogenated stuff. You're fine.

[determined4000]

It is a pancake mix. I'm not a nutritionally savvy as some posters ITT so was wondering if there was anything in the ingredients profile that was something to look out for and avoid?

eniched what flour not as good as wheat flour, vegetable oils not as good as alternative oils or butter
would probably be cheaper to buy wheat flour, butter, baking soda, and milk/powdered milk, salt

tbh I've never found any anti-dairy argument to be sensical

this
almost all research shows the vast benefits of dairy-based proteins
milk ranks higher than meats in a lot of studies expecially around WO times *and whole comes out on top of nonfat)
[QUOTE=LaViidaLocaa;1221757981]
I know a little sodium is essential for normal functions, but what about the upper end? Do you guys track sodium regarding health, not water retention?
Sodium is associated with several cancers, such as gastric cancer:
/QUOTE]dont oversalt your food
get at least 2x as much potassium
if you are active dont restrict it because you could be hurting yourself

[unstrong]

eniched what flour not as good as wheat flour, vegetable oils not as good as alternative oils or butter
would probably be cheaper to buy wheat flour, butter, baking soda, and milk/powdered milk, salt

This is certainly true, but if the rest of your diet is well-composed you could be doing a lot worse. You definitely get a healthier and better tasting pancake mix making homemade buttermilk pancakes (and, like Determined said, you can buy the dry ingredients and mix them in advance, then just scoop out some and add buttermilk). But, if you couldn't be bothered, it seems pretty okay.

[determined4000]

www.labelwatch.com
^^a good resource for ingredient checks

QFT


Less than 40g Fructose from fruits and veg

Banana 225g 10.91g
Blueberry 140g 5.19g
Strawberry 300g 7.42g
Pineapple 330g 7g
Peas 300g 1.3g
Tomato 300g 4g
Onion Raw 160 2g
Sweet corn 300g 1g

That is quite a bit to eat. Hopefully I got all the math right :/ corn seems low though. Meh. Best I can muster at this time.
Source http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/nutrients/index
If one can't fit some fruit in their diet they would have to be prioritizing sucrose, or HFCS or eating an absolutely astonishing amount of vegetable matter for fructose to be a limiting factor. To each their own though.

eeeeeekkkkkkkkkk
thats actually over 68g of digestable fructose

plugged it into cronometer and it is
45.4g of fructose AND WHAT EVERYONE DISCOUNTS!!!
45.9g of SUCROSE = 22.95 grams of digested fructose

you dun messed up
sry

[EjnarKolinkar]

www.labelwatch.com
^^a good resource for ingredient checks

eeeeeekkkkkkkkkk
thats actually over 68g of digestable fructose

plugged it into cronometer and it is
45.4g of fructose AND WHAT EVERYONE DISCOUNTS!!!
45.9g of SUCROSE = 22.95 grams of digested fructose

you dun messed up
sry

Thanks, I felt like something was off, it just was too low.

[determined4000]

for practical purposes, 3.5-4 peices/servings of fruit is probably the max you should eat to not have to worry

[MikeWines]

for practical purposes, 3.5-4 peices/servings of fruit is probably the max you should eat to not have to worry

Currently eat 2 cups of a fruit medley + 200-250g of bananas/day, think that's too much?

[determined4000]

Currently eat 2 cups of a fruit medley + 200-250g of bananas/day, think that's too much?

thats about 20-25 grams of digestable fructose (fructose, what you get with the sucrose)
well under

I really hope you guys arent now scared of fruit. Because I eat plenty each and everyday because of the wide range of nutrients and BENEFITS they offer.
But its like anything, you can have too much of a good thing.
But in your example, you are getting a good amount of fiber, antixodiants and vitamins from the berries
A good deal of potassium and resistant starch + vitamins in the bananas

quick lookup chart
http://thepaleodiet.com/fruits-and-sugars/
just do
fructose grams + (sucrose/2)= total digested

[determined4000]

To add
It is the general population that should be worrying.

do you know someone who might drink 2 20oz cokes?
Or gets a blueberry muffin and OJ bottle from Dunkin Donuts?
Orders a McDs milkshake and has a pack of skittles at some point in the day?

All these people hit the max rather quickly.

[Crucifist]

do you know someone who might drink 2 20oz cokes?
Or gets a blueberry muffin and OJ bottle from Dunkin Donuts?
Orders a McDs milkshake and has a pack of skittles at some point in the day?

All these people hit the max rather quickly.

Agreed. Probably not an issue assuming you are eating mostly whole foods and not doing something extreme. Saw a poster once who was literally eating nothing but twenty bananas (or some number along those lines) a day.

Re: Never seen a good argument against dairy unless someone has some legitimate intolerance. Some people are sensitive to it, but they are the minority.

[MichielN]

Re: Never seen a good argument against dairy unless someone has some legitimate intolerance. Some people are sensitive to it, but they are the minority.

Saying dairy is bad because some people cannot tolerate it is ridiculous.

brb peanut allergy brb peanuts are bad
brb meat allergy brb meat is bad
brb egg allergy brb eggs are bad
brb veggie allergy brb veggies are bad
brb brb

[MikeWines]

thats about 20-25 grams of digestable fructose (fructose, what you get with the sucrose)
well under

I really hope you guys arent now scared of fruit. Because I eat plenty each and everyday because of the wide range of nutrients and BENEFITS they offer.
But its like anything, you can have too much of a good thing.
But in your example, you are getting a good amount of fiber, antixodiants and vitamins from the berries
A good deal of potassium and resistant starch + vitamins in the bananas

quick lookup chart
http://thepaleodiet.com/fruits-and-sugars/
just do
fructose grams + (sucrose/2)= total digested

Oops, was thinking the fructose limit was 25grams, not 50.

Total daily sugars for me are around 100-130g so I would imagine I'm getting close to that limit with everything I eat as well. Not going to decrease my fruit intake or be scared, just thinking out loud.

[WMLifting]

To add
It is the general population that should be worrying.

do you know someone who might drink 2 20oz cokes?
Or gets a blueberry muffin and OJ bottle from Dunkin Donuts?
Orders a McDs milkshake and has a pack of skittles at some point in the day?

All these people hit the max rather quickly.

My step mother drinks coca cola for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snack throughout the day. On my own estimation, ~2L daily. I honestly worry about her a lot.

On a side note, I can't believe I never thought to factor in sucrose contained in fruits as well *face palm*
I don't really eat much fruit but it's still good to be aware of.

[cumminslifter]

My step mother drinks coca cola for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snack throughout the day. On my own estimation, ~2L daily. I honestly worry about her a lot.

On a side note, I can't believe I never thought to factor in sucrose contained in fruits as well *face palm*
I don't really eat much fruit but it's still good to be aware of.

non diet? it honestly baffles me how so many people pick regular over diet and how overweight they are

[ErikTheElectric]

Thoughts on this? I got through about 50 minutes of this last night before turning it off...




**IMO**
she starts going full retard around the 47:00 mark.

[LaViidaLocaa]

Thoughts on this? I got through about 50 minutes of this last night before turning it off...

Cliffs would be nice? It's an hour long video..

[ErikTheElectric]

Cliffs would be nice? It's an hour long video..

Watch it and find out? I barely made it through the entire thing. You can always do some searching yourself and find out what you want to know.

[saw7988]

non diet? it honestly baffles me how so many people pick regular over diet and how overweight they are

I can't express how many times I've heard "diet is even worse than regular!" when I either tell them to switch or get a diet soda myself. Makes me so mad.

[MikeWines]

Thoughts on this? I got through about 50 minutes of this last night before turning it off...




**IMO**
she starts going full retard around the 47:00 mark.

"Eliminate sugar from the world."

"I would double the price of anything with 1 gram of sugar." - Yeah, no...Brb paying more for cocoa powder, cottage cheese, and vegetables. Sure, that sounds good logical since those aren't whole foods haha

"There is no law that says it all about energy in vs. energy out." - Hmmm last time I checked this was called the Law of Thermodynamics.

"You won't lose a pound if you cut out 3500 calories." - Somewhat true given some studies that show this.

She has some of her facts out of place in regards to all or nothing but I think the ideas are clear:
>People should snack less b/c it's easier to eat more.
>Eat whole foods for more micros b/c most are deficient in something.
>Carbs aren't as necessary for most folks who aren't lifting more than 3 times per week. Those who are already overweight should work on timing their carbs intelligently and not over consuming them.

I'd agree with her on a few things.

[knowledgeEpower]

So, what’s the upper safe limit of fructose per day (all sources considered)? Again, this depends on a number of variables, not the least of which are an individual’s physical activity level and lean body mass. Currently in the literature is a liberal camp reporting that fructose intakes up to 90 grams per day have a beneficial effect on HbA(1c), and no significant effects are seen for fasting triacylglycerol or body weight with intakes up to 100 grams per day in adults [15]. The conservative camp suggests that the safe range is much less than this; roughly 25-40 grams per day [19]. Figuring that both sides are biased, the middle figure between the two camps is roughly 50 grams for active adults.

One study indicated the threshold where fructose was starting to become primarily converted to fat was around 60 grams per day on average (6). Another study indicated the threshold to be around 100 grams per day (5). None of this research was on hard-training bodybuilders, which means the threshold could be higher; however, it is best to be conservative. Thus, we can roughly estimate that 60-100 grams per day shouldn’t impair your fat loss efforts, assuming you are training regularly and dieting appropriately.

...

[Crucifist]

Saying dairy is bad because some people cannot tolerate it is ridiculous.

brb peanut allergy brb peanuts are bad
brb meat allergy brb meat is bad
brb egg allergy brb eggs are bad
brb veggie allergy brb veggies are bad
brb brb

I never said they were "bad." Just saying that the only reason NOT to eat dairy is if it legitimately does cause you (as an individual) digestive issues. That's like saying nobody should eat peanuts because there are some kids who have peanut allergies. Anyway, my point was that dairy is perfectly fine. For that matter, I've yet to see any great arguments against gluten. I know one guy with a genuine intolerance, but half of these people are just imagining problems as part of the anti-gluten fad.

"Eliminate sugar from the world."

"I would double the price of anything with 1 gram of sugar." - Yeah, no...Brb paying more for cocoa powder, cottage cheese, and vegetables. Sure, that sounds good logical since those aren't whole foods haha

"There is no law that says it all about energy in vs. energy out." - Hmmm last time I checked this was called the Law of Thermodynamics.

"You won't lose a pound if you cut out 3500 calories." - Somewhat true given some studies that show this.

She has some of her facts out of place in regards to all or nothing but I think the ideas are clear:
>People should snack less b/c it's easier to eat more.
>Eat whole foods for more micros b/c most are deficient in something.
>Carbs aren't as necessary for most folks who aren't lifting more than 3 times per week. Those who are already overweight should work on timing their carbs intelligently and not over consuming them.

I'd agree with her on a few things.

Suddenly an apple costs more than two pounds of choice seafood.

People need to stop trying to restrict and outlaw foods and focus on creating an intelligent, informed public. There are so many people who are making poor dietary decisions simply out of ignorance. I know you and I have talked about this.