Team General Mills - Vytis & MoEcho

[demonwareltd]

Mirror is showing progress every pic brother.

Concur. Digging those full, round delts (no homo).

U may have it harder than most, but that is just a testament to how much you want it!!

[MoEcho]

^^ What he said!!

You got this Rob!

[dogg74]

This is weird. The morning of your post I was wondering about how you're doing....psychic vibes got you to check in?

Have you guys ever experienced this? Thinking or dreaming about someone out of the blue and then hearing form them soon after. Waking up with a song in your head then hearing that song on the radio as soon as you start the car. This actually happened this morning. For some reason I was thinking about Black Sabbath (not even a real fan) and the first song on the radio was Paranoid...eerie...


Trained this morning...did some cardio...no big whoop.

Hey, forgot to post pics of Evan's 3rd Bday party on Sunday. He's officially 3 today!

Made some good food - pulled pork, BBQ chicken, sausages, cupcakes and a super cake:

lol..just a lil VY..The Ole Dogg is trying to recuperate..bday is in about 2 weeks and feeling it..been going to therapy sessions for the lower back for about 3 weeks now 1x per week. had a lot going down down there which forced me to limt myself on exercises..but im slowly regaining some strentgh..still a bit to go..but pain is not as bad as it was for the prior 14 weeks..so hanging tight..
and yes ive had those thoughts..matter of fact..my vibes tell me the Canadians are going packing tonight:0

Evan and nathans Pics are ALWAYS adorable..and the food as well..that cake is awesome!!

[MoEcho]

Cardio
30 min walk/run

Just cardio for me today. I blasted delts and arms yesterday and I'm feeling it now!

Weight is slowly coming down again also, and I'm back on track --> HUGE thanks to Rob for offering to provide guidance. I was lost and struggling. Rob's gonna help me find my way back down to lean-town

#TEAMGM

[Vytis]

Great pics. I want that cake right now, ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I'm super happy on how it turned out.

Concur. Digging those full, round delts (no homo).

U may have it harder than most, but that is just a testament to how much you want it!!

I'm beginning to question it though...I'm just tired...

^^ What he said!!

You got this Rob!

I'm trying to hang on Mo. It's hard to stay motivated.

lol..just a lil VY..The Ole Dogg is trying to recuperate..bday is in about 2 weeks and feeling it..been going to therapy sessions for the lower back for about 3 weeks now 1x per week. had a lot going down down there which forced me to limt myself on exercises..but im slowly regaining some strentgh..still a bit to go..but pain is not as bad as it was for the prior 14 weeks..so hanging tight..
and yes ive had those thoughts..matter of fact..my vibes tell me the Canadians are going packing tonight:0

Evan and nathans Pics are ALWAYS adorable..and the food as well..that cake is awesome!!

Sorry to hear that the back is still giving you problems.

Your vibes were on point...your Rangers pulled it off.

Cardio
30 min walk/run

Just cardio for me today. I blasted delts and arms yesterday and I'm feeling it now!

Weight is slowly coming down again also, and I'm back on track --> HUGE thanks to Rob for offering to provide guidance. I was lost and struggling. Rob's gonna help me find my way back down to lean-town

#TEAMGM

My pleasure Mo. Now if I could do the same for myself.


Update time. So what do you do when you cut calories, increase cardio and manage to gain weight? You guessed it, cut some more. Here's the brand new low, lol.

Training Days - 1680 calories
Off Days - 1480 calories
Re-feed Day - 1880 calories

I suck...

[The Solution]

1480
may as well go on PSMF haha

[Vytis]

1480
may as well go on PSMF haha

Ha, ha, ha...not funny... (insert Schwarzenegger accent).

[MoEcho]

1480???!! Holy effing shi* balls!!!

[domingochavez]

Those macros are downright dangerous, don't you think you should be reversing a little or taking a diet break then coming back for more weight loss?

I get that you're being coached, but that doesn't seem smart to me at all...

[MoEcho]

Morning all.

Workout yesterday was amazing and I'm feeling great today! Pumped for an upper back/bi workout followed-by some post workout rice cakes and berries. YUM!

[demonwareltd]

Those macros are downright dangerous, don't you think you should be reversing a little or taking a diet break then coming back for more weight loss?

I get that you're being coached, but that doesn't seem smart to me at all...

I concur. Going really low calories, while okay and necessary sometimes for the last couple of weeks, can be detrimental the lower and longer you are there.

For example, I have been behind all prep but my coach didn't drop me any lower than 1800 cals/day and only for these last two weeks. I could have gone lower and maybe even looked leaner but would end up paying for it on the back end.

[trickyB]

Very interested in where this is going.

[ms_mac]

Those macros are downright dangerous, don't you think you should be reversing a little or taking a diet break then coming back for more weight loss?

I get that you're being coached, but that doesn't seem smart to me at all...

I concur. Going really low calories, while okay and necessary sometimes for the last couple of weeks, can be detrimental the lower and longer you are there.

For example, I have been behind all prep but my coach didn't drop me any lower than 1800 cals/day and only for these last two weeks. I could have gone lower and maybe even looked leaner but would end up paying for it on the back end.

I have to agree with these guys, Rob. I know you have the utmost respect and faith in Marc, but calories extremely low like that....and it looks like its just going to keep getting lower.....will not end well. I am really not trying to discourage you or piss you off, I am just concerned and worried for you at this point.

You can tell me to mind my own business though

[The Solution]

I concur. Going really low calories, while okay and necessary sometimes for the last couple of weeks, can be detrimental the lower and longer you are there.

For example, I have been behind all prep but my coach didn't drop me any lower than 1800 cals/day and only for these last two weeks. I could have gone lower and maybe even looked leaner but would end up paying for it on the back end.

Vytis also has the most
Poverty metabolism on this site he has to go drastic routes to get that lean

[trickyB]

I hope Vytis and Mo don't mind me posting this here. Some may find it interesting, Yakabebe has a pretty damn good physique too.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=154346691

[jaredmus]

pulled pork, chicken cake look great as do you keep on grinding in here

[domingochavez]

Vytis also has the most
Poverty metabolism on this site he has to go drastic routes to get that lean

While this may be true IMO it's ill advised to just keep dropping calories, if you referred Vytis to Layne / 3DMJ / Pro Physique my bet would be they raise calories and reverse slightly, get the body used to processing more carbohydrates then dig deeper to a desired bodyfat level. Just straight dropping calories with no diet breaks and adding intervals on top of intervals is old school balls to the wall thinking that really shouldn't be necessary!

[The Solution]

While this may be true IMO it's ill advised to just keep dropping calories, if you referred Vytis to Layne / 3DMJ / Pro Physique my bet would be they raise calories and reverse slightly, get the body used to processing more carbohydrates then dig deeper to a desired bodyfat level. Just straight dropping calories with no diet breaks and adding intervals on top of intervals is old school balls to the wall thinking that really shouldn't be necessary!

well a few weeks ago maybe 6-7 when he started with marc, marc raised his kcals (if you read his journal when he started) and guess what he gained very fast.
I know a lot of people who have to get to where vytis is to get that lean, HELL some people have to go basically P+V 1-2 days in a row and then refeed, or drastic PSMF multiple times a week and P+F a few days then refeed 1x a week to get truly lean and in shape while doing boatloads of cardio.
Some are just more genetically gifted.

While diet breaks and raising kcals does work, im just guessing this is week 7-8-9 tops after starting with marc and where marc raised his kcals because he thought the same thing, and they constantly have had to keep cutting down because he kept stalling stalling stalling , then made some progress, then stalled

but again. Just what i have seen and what i have read from what Vytis was telling me.
Vytis hired a coach for a reason to stick to what he tells him to do. and after following him for 3-4 years, i have never seen vytis each too much TBH, even in his offseason his offseason macros make it look similar to what most of us diet on. Just one of those metabolisms ...

[demonwareltd]

Bob brings up good points. Up until this prep I have always done my own and I would follow a pattern of 3 day P+V and then have a refeed. Worked wonders and was able to get the leanest I have ever been. It was however, a recipe that tanked my strength so this go around even though I didn't get as lean, I maintained more strength and look bigger and fuller.

[Vytis]

Wow, super discussion in here guys. I haven't been avoiding it by any means, BB.com was not responding at home this past weekend for some reason. Anyone else notice this? Pages were not loading correctly, or at all. Anyways...

1480???!! Holy effing shi* balls!!!

My thoughts exactly.

Those macros are downright dangerous, don't you think you should be reversing a little or taking a diet break then coming back for more weight loss?

I get that you're being coached, but that doesn't seem smart to me at all...

Trust me, I've been thinking the same thing. I am second guessing, but not sure if that's good either, so I'm working the plan at the moment.

Morning all.

Workout yesterday was amazing and I'm feeling great today! Pumped for an upper back/bi workout followed-by some post workout rice cakes and berries. YUM!

Now that sounds good!

I concur. Going really low calories, while okay and necessary sometimes for the last couple of weeks, can be detrimental the lower and longer you are there.

For example, I have been behind all prep but my coach didn't drop me any lower than 1800 cals/day and only for these last two weeks. I could have gone lower and maybe even looked leaner but would end up paying for it on the back end.

I am getting a little concerned over the long term plan. How much lower can I go?

Very interested in where this is going.

Me too...

I have to agree with these guys, Rob. I know you have the utmost respect and faith in Marc, but calories extremely low like that....and it looks like its just going to keep getting lower.....will not end well. I am really not trying to discourage you or piss you off, I am just concerned and worried for you at this point.

You can tell me to mind my own business though

I wouldn't say the utmost respect, I did however put my trust in him (as I did hire him) to get me into the best shape of my life. I was hoping that I would learn some new techniques or methods to achieve a ripped physique, but so far all I've seen is old school bbing...I could have done this myself.

Vytis also has the most
Poverty metabolism on this site he has to go drastic routes to get that lean

Sadly, you may be right.

I hope Vytis and Mo don't mind me posting this here. Some may find it interesting, Yakabebe has a pretty damn good physique too.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=154346691

If you scroll down the first page of the journal you posted you'll see my take on his situation.

pulled pork, chicken cake look great as do you keep on grinding in here

Thanks.

While this may be true IMO it's ill advised to just keep dropping calories, if you referred Vytis to Layne / 3DMJ / Pro Physique my bet would be they raise calories and reverse slightly, get the body used to processing more carbohydrates then dig deeper to a desired bodyfat level. Just straight dropping calories with no diet breaks and adding intervals on top of intervals is old school balls to the wall thinking that really shouldn't be necessary!

These ideas run through my head all the time. Hence me starting to second guessing things.

well a few weeks ago maybe 6-7 when he started with marc, marc raised his kcals (if you read his journal when he started) and guess what he gained very fast.
I know a lot of people who have to get to where vytis is to get that lean, HELL some people have to go basically P+V 1-2 days in a row and then refeed, or drastic PSMF multiple times a week and P+F a few days then refeed 1x a week to get truly lean and in shape while doing boatloads of cardio.
Some are just more genetically gifted.

While diet breaks and raising kcals does work, im just guessing this is week 7-8-9 tops after starting with marc and where marc raised his kcals because he thought the same thing, and they constantly have had to keep cutting down because he kept stalling stalling stalling , then made some progress, then stalled

but again. Just what i have seen and what i have read from what Vytis was telling me.
Vytis hired a coach for a reason to stick to what he tells him to do. and after following him for 3-4 years, i have never seen vytis each too much TBH, even in his offseason his offseason macros make it look similar to what most of us diet on. Just one of those metabolisms ...

You're pretty close Bob. I am now into my 12th week with Marc. You're right in that off the bat Marc bumped my macros big time and within the first 2 weeks I gained about 4lbs. Since then he did cut calories, sometimes twice in one week when I've stalled or have gained.

You're also right about my off season macros. It does not take much for me to gain weight either. In fact, those macros that Marc gave me at the start of this cut is much more than I've ever eaten, even when I was hovering at the 240lb (and 16% BF) mark.

I am definitely not one of the genetically gifted.

Bob brings up good points. Up until this prep I have always done my own and I would follow a pattern of 3 day P+V and then have a refeed. Worked wonders and was able to get the leanest I have ever been. It was however, a recipe that tanked my strength so this go around even though I didn't get as lean, I maintained more strength and look bigger and fuller.

Currently, and for the last month I've basically been on protein and veg for 6 days, with 1 re feed a week. It's been a struggle to see any substantial fat loss. I feel as though I've leaned out a bit, but not to the extent that I have based on the measure I've taken. We'll see how this goes I guess.

[ms_mac]

Are you hell bent on competing at this point? My thought is that you spend some time.....alot of time.....getting your cals\macros up. Doing it all at once as Marc did, wasn't a great idea given your metabolism. I would increase VERY slowly, if I was in your shoes. I am thinking like 50 cals every week or 2 for a LONG time. Do this over a year or so, and I bet your metabolism will respond favorably....

I will admit I don't know **** about slow metabolisms, but I follow Layne....and this is the advise I am sure he would give to you..

Just my 2 cents for what its worth.

[Vytis]

Are you hell bent on competing at this point? My thought is that you spend some time.....alot of time.....getting your cals\macros up. Doing it all at once as Marc did, wasn't a great idea given your metabolism. I would increase VERY slowly, if I was in your shoes. I am thinking like 50 cals every week or 2 for a LONG time. Do this over a year or so, and I bet your metabolism will respond favorably....

I will admit I don't know **** about slow metabolisms, but I follow Layne....and this is the advise I am sure he would give to you..

Just my 2 cents for what its worth.

I have no competition plans at all. My whole goal was to get a decent, lean physique. Marc and I thought the best route would be to get into a single digit bf level, then build some muscle. So far stage one is not working out so well. I have no idea what I'm doing really...

[The Solution]

I have no competition plans at all. My whole goal was to get a decent, lean physique. Marc and I thought the best route would be to get into a single digit bf level, then build some muscle. So far stage one is not working out so well. I have no idea what I'm doing really...

if you have no idea
why dont you ask your coach. ? Clearly you are getting leaner every single picture update you post, your making progress you just have to suffer a lot more than the majority due to how slow your metabolism is. Not everyone is gifted to eat 200g of carbs and be shredded, some have to go to extreme measures.

[ms_mac]

if you have no idea
why dont you ask your coach. ? Clearly you are getting leaner every single picture update you post, your making progress you just have to suffer a lot more than the majority due to how slow your metabolism is. Not everyone is gifted to eat 200g of carbs and be shredded, some have to go to extreme measures.

"suffer' being the key word here, Bob. Rob is suffering, he is miserable and totally not enjoying the process....is single digit bodyfat worth all that? Just food for thought..

[The Solution]

"suffer' being the key word here, Bob. Rob is suffering, he is miserable and totally not enjoying the process....is single digit bodyfat worth all that? Just food for thought..

I see that and read that everyday, and everytime he has cut he has had the same emotional outlook on it.
Getting to very lean levels of bodyfat For the most case is not fun, because when your own body is fighting you to get to extreme levels of bodyfat its going to hurt, it wont be an easy road, and is not a walk in the park.

If this is what he wants to pursue and what he paid a coach for then by all means we can only support him in his decision and what he wants to do.
as a bystander we have little influence on his overall decision. I simply am just trying to support him and what he wants to do based off his coaches decision. Weather he wants to tell marc to reverse is his call, and i know that his kcals are deadly low, but again I remember watching layne norton's reloaded DVD and stating how he had clients doing more cardio than Rob is now, and on far less kcals to get shredded and into single digit body fat numbers to compete.

Rob is not alone, and i know he is moody and unhappy, but light is at the end of the tunnel sooner or later.

[bcapprentice]

I see that and read that everyday, and everytime he has cut he has had the same emotional outlook on it.
Getting to very lean levels of bodyfat For the most case is not fun, because when your own body is fighting you to get to extreme levels of bodyfat its going to hurt, it wont be an easy road, and is not a walk in the park.

If this is what he wants to pursue and what he paid a coach for then by all means we can only support him in his decision and what he wants to do.
as a bystander we have little influence on his overall decision. I simply am just trying to support him and what he wants to do based off his coaches decision. Weather he wants to tell marc to reverse is his call, and i know that his kcals are deadly low, but again I remember watching layne norton's reloaded DVD and stating how he had clients doing more cardio than Rob is now, and on far less kcals to get shredded and into single digit body fat numbers to compete.

Rob is not alone, and i know he is moody and unhappy, but light is at the end of the tunnel sooner or later.

Well said,
BTW Rob you can do this. We are all rooting for you.

[domingochavez]

Layne would only do that for a short amount of time though, 2 - 4 weeks from attending his seminars in Australia this year as well as having worked under Ben Esgro, dig real deep for 2 weeks, 4 if necessary but no longer.

This is also a fantastic read and I know Alberto Nunez is a huge fan of Leigh Peele

www.leighpeele.com/starvation-mode

[Vytis]

if you have no idea
why dont you ask your coach. ? Clearly you are getting leaner every single picture update you post, your making progress you just have to suffer a lot more than the majority due to how slow your metabolism is. Not everyone is gifted to eat 200g of carbs and be shredded, some have to go to extreme measures.

Don't get much from Marc in terms feedback. I appreciate your support, but I don't think I've gotten any leaner over the past 4 weeks. Here are a couple of pics from the weekend. My hamstrings are better, but you can see the amount of fat I still have hanging around my stomach and lower back. Kind of a mess.

"suffer' being the key word here, Bob. Rob is suffering, he is miserable and totally not enjoying the process....is single digit bodyfat worth all that? Just food for thought..

The process is not so bad, it's the lack of results from all this hard work that's disappointing.

I see that and read that everyday, and everytime he has cut he has had the same emotional outlook on it.
Getting to very lean levels of bodyfat For the most case is not fun, because when your own body is fighting you to get to extreme levels of bodyfat its going to hurt, it wont be an easy road, and is not a walk in the park.

If this is what he wants to pursue and what he paid a coach for then by all means we can only support him in his decision and what he wants to do.
as a bystander we have little influence on his overall decision. I simply am just trying to support him and what he wants to do based off his coaches decision. Weather he wants to tell marc to reverse is his call, and i know that his kcals are deadly low, but again I remember watching layne norton's reloaded DVD and stating how he had clients doing more cardio than Rob is now, and on far less kcals to get shredded and into single digit body fat numbers to compete.

Rob is not alone, and i know he is moody and unhappy, but light is at the end of the tunnel sooner or later.

Thanks Bob. It helps to know that I am not the only unlucky bastard that has to eat girl calories to get lean. I'll stop whining now...

Well said,
BTW Rob you can do this. We are all rooting for you.

Thanks!

Layne would only do that for a short amount of time though, 2 - 4 weeks from attending his seminars in Australia this year as well as having worked under Ben Esgro, dig real deep for 2 weeks, 4 if necessary but no longer.

This is also a fantastic read and I know Alberto Nunez is a huge fan of Leigh Peele

www.leighpeele.com/starvation-mode

Thanks for the link. I'll take a look.


What I do know is that my partner in crime, Mo, is killing it! Get in here and celebrate your successes already.

[MoEcho]

Heyooooo!!

Killed a leg session tonight (twice, kinda ha) followed by some cardio. Went to the gym near my work and gave a friend the tour. She's getting in to lifting so we spent time playing with all the toys Went to my gym tonight and blasted away at legs to finish them off. #girlsquatsrock

Hoping for a low of 135 even this week.

Gotta produce for the coach! I'm glad Rob is here to keep me accountable. I feel like I was lost before without him!

[Vytis]

Heyooooo!!

Killed a leg session tonight (twice, kinda ha) followed by some cardio. Went to the gym near my work and gave a friend the tour. She's getting in to lifting so we spent time playing with all the toys Went to my gym tonight and blasted away at legs to finish them off. #girlsquatsrock

Hoping for a low of 135 even this week.

Gotta produce for the coach! I'm glad Rob is here to keep me accountable. I feel like I was lost before without him!

You're doing awesome Mo. Maybe I should follow my own advice, lol.

But can't. Marc's doing the thinking for me. Speaking of, cardio update. As of today I'm to do 3 - 32min HIIT sessions and 4 - 45 min MISS sessions per week. Go legs, go...