5/3/1 bbb, does this matter?

[Mysterion27]

Hey guys, I train in a crossfit type environment where theres a group of us that train together and we are all following the Boring But Big template but i cannot decide if i like this or not, It doesnt feel optimal for good gains

For example , Thursday gone we did Bench press and then our assistance work was 5 push press, 10 hang cleans, and 15 push ups but we are doing it for time not sets , Usually somewhere between 8 - 15 minutes so some people could complete 7 sets of each, others may only do 4 or whatever , Theres also no rest , You do your 5 push press and immediately do 10 hang cleans followed by 15 push ups without any rest and its exhausting and resulting in me not completing reps, After 2 rounds iam knackered and iam doing everything in sets of 2s/3s until i get each set done

Basically i feel iam not doing enough volume on this programme, I also feel iam never going to see any gains!!

Am i right or does everything sound fine and i should stick to it?

I have been contemplating working out twice a day to add more volume and speed up progress/gains but concerned about over training to!!

[ODoyle99]

That's not BBB...at all. BBB would be 5x10 bench or OHP after your main work for bench day. You're doing a bastardized version of 5/3/1 to add in crossfit. Is it optimal for gains? No, crossfit in general isn't. Is the real BBB program? Depends on level of experience, assuming you're an intermediate lifter then yes it is.

[lightweightiron]

Do it like your supposed to.

[Mysterion27]

That's not BBB...at all. BBB would be 5x10 bench or OHP after your main work for bench day. You're doing a bastardized version of 5/3/1 to add in crossfit. Is it optimal for gains? No, crossfit in general isn't. Is the real BBB program? Depends on level of experience, assuming you're an intermediate lifter then yes it is.

Iam a beginner, My strongest lift is deadlift @ 145kg

Iam attending grouped classes for this so i cant just change things up, This is what we have been told to do basically! I thought push press, hang cleans and push ups would be ok on bench day even though its not 5 x 10

Could i just stick with what iam doing (i train every evening) and just follow another programme better for hypertrophy that i could run in the mornings? I just have no idea what lifts to do or where to start , I just feel like iam happy to follow what iam doing at the mo even if its not optimal, i love the people and the classes! And just do my own thing in the mornings to help make some gains??

In fact on a previous thread i mentioned following all pro's routine 3 mornings a week and continuing my current routine in the evenings but worried about lifts clashing on the same day or following day with regards recovery/over training

[lightweightiron]

5/3/1, SS, All Pros, 5x5, etc are all made simple. You hit the compound exercises hard and then you recover. Thats all their is to those. When you start doing MORE or CROSSFIT is when you start to alter the effectiveness of these programs. You need to decide which you want. Get strong, get big, get fit.

[Mysterion27]

5/3/1, SS, All Pros, 5x5, etc are all made simple. You hit the compound exercises hard and then you recover. Thats all their is to those. When you start doing MORE or CROSSFIT is when you start to alter the effectiveness of these programs. You need to decide which you want. Get strong, get big, get fit.

So its not possible to get bigger, stronger and somewhat fitter at the same time? What iam doing at the moment clearly isnt optimal for muscle hypertrophy , the workouts aint bloody easy, they are damn tough but i dont feel like iam doing too much , thats why iam asking (and assuming) that i could follow a full body routine on top of what iam doing which would mean twice a day workouts 3x a week but i have no idea how i would run it because i would be lifting every day but iam thinking i might be ok cause there isnt a whole lot of lifting in my current programme other then 3x5 or 3/3/1+ and then some assistance work with 50-60% of our 1rm which is killer but its just a short 10 minute workout , In fact iam currently probably only spending a total of 20 mins with weights in my hands each day

[lightweightiron]

Ill let others chime in. IMO you need to drop the crossfit if you want to get stronger. If you want to get bigger you need to eat a lot, and then enough to make up what you burn at crossfit.

[Mysterion27]

Ill let others chime in. IMO you need to drop the crossfit if you want to get stronger. If you want to get bigger you need to eat a lot, and then enough to make up what you burn at crossfit.

I have actually got stronger on my main lifts, I started this in October, my Deadlift was 120, it's now 135 and my Squat now is 95kg, before xmas it was nowhere near that so i do feel iam getting stronger but with regards body composition, hypertrophy and changing my body's physique, iam seeing little progress, I feel like i haven't built an ounce of muscle, my diet is good although it does get sloppy on weekends

[ODoyle99]

The more you try to do at once the less effective you'll be at any of them. To answer your question: No, do not add 3x full body training on top of what you're already doing.
To build mass, you're going to have to change what you're doing and probably take out your crossfit work. If you want to leave in that work then you need to up your calories a bit. Building muscle means caloric surplus. Conditioning work (aka crossfit) consumes calories, so you'll have to eat more to replace what you burn, get it? Like I said though, the more you try to do the less effective you'll be at any of it. So keep that in mind

[Mysterion27]

The more you try to do at once the less effective you'll be at any of them. To answer your question: No, do not add 3x full body training on top of what you're already doing.
To build mass, you're going to have to change what you're doing and probably take out your crossfit work. If you want to leave in that work then you need to up your calories a bit. Building muscle means caloric surplus. Conditioning work (aka crossfit) consumes calories, so you'll have to eat more to replace what you burn, get it? Like I said though, the more you try to do the less effective you'll be at any of it. So keep that in mind

Well at the moment iam trying to get my body fat% down, Iam not too far away from where i want to be but i was expecting some newb gains despite being in a deficit where as i just feel like i am getting scrawnier, Diet wise iam pretty clean all week but i do find it hard on weekends and often eat crap on weekends to be honest, The trouble iam having is that i will soon be focusing on adding mass once i reach my body fat% target but ill be still following the same routine iam doing now and iam not sure its gonna cut it even if i up my calories to be in a surplus iam worried its just gonna result in fat gain, I was hoping i could simply just do extra weight training for hypertrophy and continue my current routine in the evenings

[Mysterion27]

bump

[lightweightiron]

Pick a goal and stick with it. If you want to get BF% down then you need to diet properly. Go to the nutrition section and read the stickies and calculate your macros. Eat them properly and do 1 cheat meal a week. The more you slack the longer it will take.

Once you get to your desired BF% then you can gain strength and mass at the same time. Recalculate your macros and then add 10%. Eat HEALTHY CLEAN FOOD and you should aim to gain .5-1lb a week. Get on a good linear program and you will get bigger and stronger.

[Mysterion27]

Pick a goal and stick with it. If you want to get BF% down then you need to diet properly. Go to the nutrition section and read the stickies and calculate your macros. Eat them properly and do 1 cheat meal a week. The more you slack the longer it will take.

Once you get to your desired BF% then you can gain strength and mass at the same time. Recalculate your macros and then add 10%. Eat HEALTHY CLEAN FOOD and you should aim to gain .5-1lb a week. Get on a good linear program and you will get bigger and stronger.

I understand what your saying mate, What iam really asking is if its possible to stay with what iam doing (as i do really enjoy the classes) but just do extra work for hypertrophy in the mornings maybe? Theres surely a solution rather then having to give up what iam doing and do something else, Iam also unemployed at this moment in time so i can rest more then the average person, perhaps makin twice a day workouts more effective in my case??

[lightweightiron]

You can do whatever you want in the mornings. If you want to do hypertrohpy specific then you need to EAT more then you are burning. Crossfit is going to hinder your gains no doubt but I guess do what you can do. Just pick a good M/W/F full body or Upper/Lower/Off/Upper/Lower split and just do more in the 8-12 range. Don't look forward to getting much stronger. Alter your calories on each day since you will be doing 0, 1, or 2 workouts a day so be sure to calculate it properly.

And working out more is not always best.

But in honesty you could get bigger with just crossfit as long as you are eating enough. I know some crossfit is pretty brutal and some isn't.

[Mysterion27]

You can do whatever you want in the mornings. If you want to do hypertrohpy specific then you need to EAT more then you are burning. Crossfit is going to hinder your gains no doubt but I guess do what you can do. Just pick a good M/W/F full body or Upper/Lower/Off/Upper/Lower split and just do more in the 8-12 range. Don't look forward to getting much stronger. Alter your calories on each day since you will be doing 0, 1, or 2 workouts a day so be sure to calculate it properly.

And working out more is not always best.

But in honesty you could get bigger with just crossfit as long as you are eating enough. I know some crossfit is pretty brutal and some isn't.

The problem is, say i do full body Monday, one of those body parts is going to get hit again that evening? and again the following day n so on? but will it matter as the evening classes are more conditioning really , at least thats how i would describe them anyway! Its just 1 main lift x 3 sets and then assistance work so would it be ok do you think? or would it be more beneficial to just scrap the current program all together and just do full body 3x a week and use the two days inbetween to focus on fitness?

[lightweightiron]

The problem is, say i do full body Monday, one of those body parts is going to get hit again that evening? and again the following day n so on? but will it matter as the evening classes are more conditioning really , at least thats how i would describe them anyway! Its just 1 main lift x 3 sets and then assistance work so would it be ok do you think? or would it be more beneficial to just scrap the current program all together and just do full body 3x a week and use the two days in between to focus on fitness?

Just try it out, if you don't recover enough or you feel you are getting no where (and you are eating in surplus) then remove something. Do 3x week full body with crossfit in the two days off and or weekends. The key is going to be eating enough to recover properly and to gain. You won't gain size or strength in a deficit.

Just so you know, it is better to know what works for you and what doesn't. Lot of people tend to get caught up in a secret training method that will make them into Arnold in 6 weeks. The truth is they are all pretty much the same. Its basic just eat and lift more weight. Your body won't need to grow if your lifting the same weight each workout. Progressively add weight and your body will grow with food.

[traineeh]

From Wendler himself about 531 BBB (and 531 in general);
"Exercise substitution will not be tolerated. Ask me about it and I'll pray you catch gonorrhea."

Do the program as written.

[Mysterion27]

From Wendler himself about 531 BBB (and 531 in general);
"Exercise substitution will not be tolerated. Ask me about it and I'll pray you catch gonorrhea."

Do the program as written.

Lol , I can understand that but alot of programmes get altered and its not always a bad thing!! What iam doing after the main lifts is basically heavy conditioning work rather then assistance work but its damn tough , I thought i was gonna die tonight as a matter of fact!! But while it may not be optimal, iam ok with that as long as i get stronger and build a little muscle!! I can always change my routine in time, Id like to just know that what iam doing right now is ok , and it might not be optimal but its gotta have its benefits to I might stick with it for 3 months and if iam not happy after that, Time to change things!! Since November, i have certainly reduced my body fat% by alot and my strength is goin up slowly but surely i think, I maybe wrong but i intend to up my calories soon and iam assuming strength will increase at a slightly faster rate when iam eating in a surplus?