"Fierce 5" Novice Routine

[MyEgoProblem]

New video from tuscherer on deloads.

After the discussion the other day in here.

Seems in on the cutting edge with my deloads :-) he almost described mine.

[Arawyn]

Eggo: I thought I might have started to heavy on the BP and OHP but I felt as though I had the form and any lower it would have been really easy. Thanks very much for the reassurance I will be upping the weight as instructed

Beard: Thanks very much for the encouragement mate its appreciated and for the reassurance. I'll trust the program, and myself, more now. And if I fail I'll do as instructed!

Squid: "You won't know what you can't do, if you don't try first." This is actually an amazing quote mate and you're very right! The weights going up and if i fail i reset and that is it. A race not a marathon haha.

Thanks for the very quick responses guys, reading lots of your posts has helped me learn before starting on to this program and I am sure I will continue to both learn and bulk! lol

[daawhitty]

^^^^exactly the posters on here are fantastic. Everyday I feel like I learn something new.
Some golden knowledge here.

[dgoyena216]

I have been seeing a lot of stupid stuff lately at the gym when it comes to curls or pull downs. One guy today was jerking the pull down machine and using his entire body and momentum and can barely pull it down with all that. And I think he was maxing out the weight. Its just madness some of the stuff I see at my schools gym.

[beardohio]

I have been seeing a lot of stupid stuff lately at the gym when it comes to curls or pull downs. One guy today was jerking the pull down machine and using his entire body and momentum and can barely pull it down with all that. And I think he was maxing out the weight. Its just madness some of the stuff I see at my schools gym.

[ATDoel]

I've been doing the program for a few months and I've enjoyed it, with one exception, the front squat. I've improved from 115 to 175 but it is starting to hurt my left shoulder joint enough for me to worry about injury (I'm using the crossed arms method). So I'm removing it and RDLs and going to go with deadlifts and leg curls. My question is, how many reps for each? I couldn't find it listed anywhere.

[Squid24]

I've been doing the program for a few months and I've enjoyed it, with one exception, the front squat. I've improved from 115 to 175 but it is starting to hurt my left shoulder joint enough for me to worry about injury (I'm using the crossed arms method). So I'm removing it and RDLs and going to go with deadlifts and leg curls. My question is, how many reps for each? I couldn't find it listed anywhere.

Same as Front Squats/RDL 3x5/3x8 = Dead/Leg Curls

[lashin95]

I will be swapping front squats and rdl for deadlift and leg Curls.
Now I was wondering can I change the biceps Curls each workout like one day barbell Curls the other hammer Curls and change it every time or should I pick a curl exercise and stick with it

marwan lo nta fahem l workout dahkoes fe nokta mo4 fahmha ynf3 tfhmhaly??

[dgoyena216]

Yes exactly except he was doing the overhand grip and leaning back at like 140 degrees in respect to his thighs and upper body. and didnt even pull it down below the top of his head.

[Kanvus]

Question, My new gym has no leg curl machine, but I still wanna increase my deads, but because of the no leg curl machine I am forced to do the front squats and RDL, now my question is will my deads still go up even though I'm doing the front squats and rdls?

[MyEgoProblem]

Ill lean right back on the lat Pulldown :-) BUT...not a swing in sight. My torso will be locked at the angle.

I'll lean back, a good amount, and use it as a HIGH angle row, and NOT a Pulldown.

Why? Well, sometimes.. Its nice to hit another angle for your back :-)

[MyEgoProblem]

Question, My new gym has no leg curl machine, but I still wanna increase my deads, but because of the no leg curl machine I am forced to do the front squats and RDL, now my question is will my deads still go up even though I'm doing the front squats and rdls?

God yes!
Front squats are an amazing back squat and deadlift BUILDER! And rdls will hammer your posterior chain like little else.

So yes, your regular deadlift will go up! Without doing it. Its called carryover!

For example, i stopped deadlifting at 3plates..
Did backsquat, frontsquat and rdls. And next time i went back to regular deads i was smashing 4+ plates for reps easily. And I'm not an anomaly.

[Kanvus]

How did you ever deal with the the wrist not bending enough problem?

God yes!
Front squats are an amazing back squat and deadlift BUILDER! And rdls will hammer your posterior chain like little else.

So yes, your regular deadlift will go up! Without doing it. Its called carryover!

For example, i stopped deadlifting at 3plates..
Did backsquat, frontsquat and rdls. And next time i went back to regular deads i was smashing 4+ plates for reps easily. And I'm not an anomaly.

[TheViking1992]

Question, My new gym has no leg curl machine, but I still wanna increase my deads, but because of the no leg curl machine I am forced to do the front squats and RDL, now my question is will my deads still go up even though I'm doing the front squats and rdls?

I only do regular deadlifts very rarely now, and i'm still able to add weight to the bar, despite not having it in my weekly routine.

But I really don't understand Davis' thoughts here... why remove a quad dominant and a ham dominant exercise and put in two hamstring exercises?

[dgoyena216]

Ill lean right back on the lat Pulldown :-) BUT...not a swing in sight. My torso will be locked at the angle.

I'll lean back, a good amount, and use it as a HIGH angle row, and NOT a Pulldown.

Why? Well, sometimes.. Its nice to hit another angle for your back :-)

As long as you know youre hitting different muscles. Most people have no idea! Some are like yeah im doing pull downs, and then they go and lean back so far to the point they could be laying on a bench with 10 degree incline.

I only do regular deadlifts very rarely now, and i'm still able to add weight to the bar, despite not having it in my weekly routine.

But I really don't understand Davis' thoughts here... why remove a quad dominant and a ham dominant exercise and put in two hamstring exercises?

Are you saying conventional deadlifts is a hamstring lift?

I guess you are. Going through a book I have of muscle anatomy and weight lifting is consistent with that.

So technically with that the extra hamstring work may be unnesecary, and should be more in with workout A to complement squats?

[MyEgoProblem]

As long as you know youre hitting different muscles. Most people have no idea! Some are like yeah im doing pull downs, and then they go and lean back so far to the point they could be laying on a bench with 10 degree incline.



Are you saying conventional deadlifts is a hamstring lift?

Ham, glutes, quads are pretty much are all prime movers in the dead.

Most people make it a back dominant lift.

[dgoyena216]

Ham, glutes, quads are pretty much are all prime movers in the dead.

Most people make it a back dominant lift.

I feel it EVERYWHERE haha. And I am only deadlifting 145 right now. And its light as a feather surprisingly.

[Squid24]

I feel it EVERYWHERE haha. And I am only deadlifting 145 right now. And its light as a feather surprisingly.

My goal this yr is to hit 315 before Dec.

[Metalmank]

Well this epic rest week is awesome. My knee pain came back today but thats because Ive been moving around a lot and ran with my dog. So its definitely happening from running. The pain radiates around the right side of my left knee cap. I did practice squats a few times and no issues so IM assuming its triggered by running.. So definitely going to stick to Rows for my HIT lol

[MyEgoProblem]

Well this epic rest week is awesome. My knee pain came back today but thats because Ive been moving around a lot and ran with my dog. So its definitely happening from running. The pain radiates around the right side of my left knee cap. I did practice squats a few times and no issues so IM assuming its triggered by running.. So definitely going to stick to Rows for my HIT lol

Good to find these things out man!
Im the same.. High impact cardio wrecks my knees, if done more than now and then..

I do my sprints on a track, so there is less impact.. Roads or pavement is a massive no no.

<3 bike / row.

[Squid24]

^^^

Yes, bike, row or elliptical(man do I miss this machine)

[dgoyena216]

My goal this yr is to hit 315 before Dec.

Yeah, I don't know how much weight my back can take so I may stop progressing at like 185-205.

[MyEgoProblem]

Yeah, I don't know how much weight my back can take so I may stop progressing at like 185-205.

Remember the progressive adaptation your body makes. It may well surprise you :-)

But deffo listen to your body :-) backs are kinda important to keep safe :-)

[TheViking1992]

Are you saying conventional deadlifts is a hamstring lift?

I guess you are. Going through a book I have of muscle anatomy and weight lifting is consistent with that.

So technically with that the extra hamstring work may be unnesecary, and should be more in with workout A to complement squats?

Unless you're squatting all the way down and turning it into a front loaded barbell hacksquat, then the deadlift is a hamstring and glute dominant exercise.

[daddyfatsac99]

i dont really post in here but i was looking for a good body workout. this looks great i might have to give it a try to make some gains.

[Wisop]

A long way from the first page, but this has gotten under my skin. Started the first workout yesterday.

My background is roughly:
- fat cheetos kid
- starts jogging to do a 1.5 mile test
- flimsy program on resistance machines once a week
- kettlebell obsession for the next 8 years.

I always went for the old school kettlebell goals like half bodyweight OHP, heavy turkish get ups, snatch test etc. Spent most of that time doing doubles complexes before getting into a bike wreck.

After that I've crawled back up to doing things like 5x5 / waterbury 10x3 with 24kgs and 28kg pairs, single hand stuff with 32 and 40.

All of this has been pretty impossible to relate to getting under the bar.

Things I've learned from yesterday:

- my front squat is abysmal. Despite the kettlebell squat being a front squat 100% of the time, I ended up practising bar/hand positions with extreme discomfort before finishing the 3 sets with a 5kg plate on each side. My technique will kill the squat long before any real weight goes on if I don't get the hang of it.

- My back squat is fairly decent as far as I can tell, feels like it'll take the longest to stall.

- My OHP is disproportionately strong, and is my favorite move standing and cleaning once before the presses.

- The plates and dumbbells are fukked in my gym, brb removing these 60kgs of plates to get to that 2.5 at the back.

- 3 sets of anything felt like nothing, but I'm sure I'll eat my words.


I did A yesterday and B today. I know that's not correct but I was basically practising and seeing what I could get done according to gym logistics.
I'll do dumbbell bench press because there's only a smiths machine with a bench under it. I'll also not be able to do the same three days a week as I work long shifts which change every week. But over a given week I have a lot of free time so it'll get done.

[davisj3537]

I only do regular deadlifts very rarely now, and i'm still able to add weight to the bar, despite not having it in my weekly routine.

But I really don't understand Davis' thoughts here... why remove a quad dominant and a ham dominant exercise and put in two hamstring exercises?

That setup favors hams no doubt, but DL still works quads pretty decently IMO, particularly sumo.

Having said that, guessing muscle emphasis during a DL with beginners is a total crap shoot. Form between lifters is all over the place. You've got some guys locking out knees almost immediately, others squatting the weight up, some guys rounding like crazing and a whole mess of people floating around in between the extremes.


The way I picture most noobs doing it is basically a half squat and a rack pull. The amount of beginners that correctly pull back instead of just up can't be very high, which I think greatly diminishes the ham/glute focus.

All speculative and again a total crap shoot, but you're right. That combo greatly favors hams.









As for the reverse flies discussion. I don't think anyone should really go over 15lb DBs, especially not beginners. I may add something in the original post about it. There is just no way they are doing it correctly with so much weight.

[davisj3537]

A long way from the first page, but this has gotten under my skin. Started the first workout yesterday.

My background is roughly:
- fat cheetos kid
- starts jogging to do a 1.5 mile test
- flimsy program on resistance machines once a week
- kettlebell obsession for the next 8 years.

I always went for the old school kettlebell goals like half bodyweight OHP, heavy turkish get ups, snatch test etc. Spent most of that time doing doubles complexes before getting into a bike wreck.

After that I've crawled back up to doing things like 5x5 / waterbury 10x3 with 24kgs and 28kg pairs, single hand stuff with 32 and 40.

All of this has been pretty impossible to relate to getting under the bar.

Things I've learned from yesterday:

- my front squat is abysmal. Despite the kettlebell squat being a front squat 100% of the time, I ended up practising bar/hand positions with extreme discomfort before finishing the 3 sets with a 5kg plate on each side. My technique will kill the squat long before any real weight goes on if I don't get the hang of it.

- My back squat is fairly decent as far as I can tell, feels like it'll take the longest to stall.

- My OHP is disproportionately strong, and is my favorite move standing and cleaning once before the presses.

- The plates and dumbbells are fukked in my gym, brb removing these 60kgs of plates to get to that 2.5 at the back.

- 3 sets of anything felt like nothing, but I'm sure I'll eat my words.


I did A yesterday and B today. I know that's not correct but I was basically practising and seeing what I could get done according to gym logistics.
I'll do dumbbell bench press because there's only a smiths machine with a bench under it. I'll also not be able to do the same three days a week as I work long shifts which change every week. But over a given week I have a lot of free time so it'll get done.

Just from your post something tells me you'll do very well. The way you analyze things and just went in to feel things out instead of going balls out is a good first step for sure.

The front squat will come. There are mobility drills you can to in order to improve the grip.

[lashin95]

sorry guys about this but due to my bad english i dont understand some point in FAQ
Let consider my one rep max at bench 100 lbs should i start first week with workout A at bench with 50% of my 1RM (50lbs) or 85% (85lbs)?? or lighter than 50%??
•if do bench with 100 lbs i do 5reps in two working sets but fail to reach 5 reps the third set here i rest for 5 min and try to 5 reps with 100lbs or decrease weight by 15% and do 3 working sets??
•Tricep iso exercise and curls should increase by 5 lbs per month like reverse fly?
•IN leg curl and lat pulldown machines in my gym weights increase by 10 kgm and i should add 5 lbs (2.5 kgm) every weak let consider my current weights that weak is 20 kgm so i add 2 more reps every sets tell i move to 20kgm after three weeks iam right??
•playing football 4times every week has a bad effect on my recovery ??
thx in advance

[Wisop]

Just from your post something tells me you'll do very well. The way you analyze things and just went in to feel things out instead of going balls out is a good first step for sure.

The front squat will come. There are mobility drills you can to in order to improve the grip.

Hey thanks for helping out after all these pages, I hope to do it justice and get some good poundages soon.