"Fierce 5" Novice Routine

[Squid24]

Ok, yeah....it's like adding a touch of AllPros progression philosophy to slow things down a bit.

Yes, exactly

[WrathfulOne]

When you got back up to 95kg, did you successfully get 3x5 and then continue increasing weight?

The tragic irony is that I can't test this properly now since I have been ill since December (cold/flu symptoms) and I'm not getting better, so I decided to stop gym until I'm well again. I squatted 85kg 5/5/8 last Monday, then I did day B on Thursday morning and I felt so ill after that I decided I had to take a break from gym.

I actually already got up to 105kg squats the last time I ran F5 last year, but due to home life I had to switch to 2 days per week training, so I changed to a 2 day 5/3/1 program and ran that for a few months and then I got biceps tendonitis so I had to take a month off squats. The end result is my lifts all went down and now I'm back to 3 days training so I'm doing F5 again. Now I'm ill so that is putting another stop on my getting my numbers up, which sucks! >

Anyway, when I get back to gym hopefully in the next 2 weeks, I will go back to 80kg squats and keep at this AMRAP technique for the last set and report back how/if I feel it helped me. When I did resets previously I just stuck to the usual 3x5 so this is the first time I will try this method.

[MyEgoProblem]

The greyskull reset actually works.. But yes, it takes some toll on your recovery..

But bare in mind that program is about that last set.. And the amrap.

Thr first two working sets are to give you some Submaximal volume (untill your last set is down near 5reps, then its just like any other LP)because a novice is basically crap/incapableg of giving it ALL for that one amrap set.

And you reset 10% on the FIRST FAILURE.

Its a different technique. for a different system. jp designed it around the maximum intensity styles of hit/max ot/heavy duty/dc.

Better? Worse? Different.. i will say a good gslp looks a lot like Fierce 5...

Note: deload is a rest week
Reset, lowering of the weights on failures

Note2: i do it.. :-) took me to a 4/2/5. With a crap shoulder. BUT ITS NOT PART OF F5 NOR PART DAVIS VISION FOR HIS PROGRAM.

[WrathfulOne]

The greyskull reset actually works.. But yes, it takes some toll on your recovery..

But bare in mind that program is about that last set.. And the amrap.

Thr first two working sets are to give you some Submaximal volume (untill your last set is down near 5reps, then its just like any other LP)because a novice is basically crap/incapableg of giving it ALL for that one amrap set.

And you reset 10% on the FIRST FAILURE.

Its a different technique. for a different system. jp designed it around the maximum intensity styles of hit/max ot/heavy duty/dc.

Better? Worse? Different.. i will say a good gslp looks a lot like Fierce 5...

Note: deload is a rest week
Reset, lowering of the weights on failures

Note2: i do it.. :-) took me to a 4/2/5. With a crap shoulder. BUT ITS NOT PART OF F5 NOR PART DAVIS VISION FOR HIS PROGRAM.

lol yeah I almost didn't mention it and I was debating whether I should, but someone asked if anyone was doing it so I thought I'd chip in. Haven't been following the thread for a long time, and now just when I got back into it I'm sick as hell.

[cnh57811]

The tragic irony is that I can't test this properly now since I have been ill since December (cold/flu symptoms) and I'm not getting better, so I decided to stop gym until I'm well again. I squatted 85kg 5/5/8 last Monday, then I did day B on Thursday morning and I felt so ill after that I decided I had to take a break from gym.

I actually already got up to 105kg squats the last time I ran F5 last year, but due to home life I had to switch to 2 days per week training, so I changed to a 2 day 5/3/1 program and ran that for a few months and then I got biceps tendonitis so I had to take a month off squats. The end result is my lifts all went down and now I'm back to 3 days training so I'm doing F5 again. Now I'm ill so that is putting another stop on my getting my numbers up, which sucks! >

Anyway, when I get back to gym hopefully in the next 2 weeks, I will go back to 80kg squats and keep at this AMRAP technique for the last set and report back how/if I feel it helped me. When I did resets previously I just stuck to the usual 3x5 so this is the first time I will try this method.

Hope you're well enough to get back at it soon, mate.

[Metalmank]

Got some knee pain in my left knee still. Annoying -_-.

I think its time to invest in some knee sleeves

[uhdimzy]

Is this modifyed routine fine? Combined some bar work with the dumbbell program and made some substituions to the original dumbbell program.

The Dumbell Full Body Program

Workout A
Squat 3x8 (Split Squat > Squat)
Bench 3x8
DB Rows 3x8
Reverse Flies 3x10
Calf raises 2x15/Skullcrushers 2x10 Superset (French Press > Skullcrushers)

Workout B
Seated Leg Press 3x8 (Walking Lunge > Seated Leg Press)
Overhead Press 3x8
Straight Leg Deadlift 3x8
Lat Pulldowns or Pull/Chin ups
Ab work 2x15/Curls 2x10 Superset

[Metalmank]

Is this modifyed routine fine? Combined some bar work with the dumbbell program and made some substituions to the original dumbbell program.

The Dumbell Full Body Program

Workout A
Squat 3x8 (Split Squat > Squat)
Bench 3x8
DB Rows 3x8
Reverse Flies 3x10
Calf raises 2x15/Skullcrushers 2x10 Superset (French Press > Skullcrushers)

Workout B
Seated Leg Press 3x8 (Walking Lunge > Seated Leg Press)
Overhead Press 3x8
Straight Leg Deadlift 3x8
Lat Pulldowns or Pull/Chin ups
Ab work 2x15/Curls 2x10 Superset

Question is,

Do you have access to a Bench and Squat rack with a bar and plates to go with it? IF so.. Than no. Use the bar.

[uhdimzy]

Question is,

Do you have access to a Bench and Squat rack with a bar and plates to go with it? IF so.. Than no. Use the bar.

So if I have access to a bar I shouldn't use dumbbells for the other workouts?

[davisj3537]

Got some knee pain in my left knee still. Annoying -_-.

I think its time to invest in some knee sleeves

I'd look to identify the issue instead of putting a bandaid on it. Sorry to hear you are having trouble.

[bob2589]

So if I have access to a bar I shouldn't use dumbbells for the other workouts?

If you have access to a bar run the program as is and use dumbells for the accessory movements.

The program is written this way for a reason and everyone on here is having success with it.

[WrathfulOne]

Got some knee pain in my left knee still. Annoying -_-.

I think its time to invest in some knee sleeves

FWIW, I did some research on knee sleeves, and apparently they do nothing to prevent injuries and are unable to warm up the fluid in your knees. The only benefit I found was that they may make you more aware of what your knees are doing, so might help you with your technique since you can feel them more with something wrapped around them.

Like Davis said, you should try work out what is causing it. The main culprits I know of are not warming up enough, and not having a correct knee path when squatting, so you are allowing them to cave or they are travelling too far forward over your feet.

Don't ignore it or you could end up with tendonitis or some other chronic injury. Post a form vid here, or see a sports physio who can help you identify the cause.

I used to get some pain in my left arm when benching, and I thought "whatever, I'm indestructable" but then the pain became constant even in every day life, so even putting on a shirt or coat made me wince with pain. I went to a physio and he diagnosed bicep tendonitis. I was unable to bench or back squat for over a month while I waited for it to heal. Actually the stretch the physio advised to help it was BS and just kept aggrevating it. What saved me was a random guy in gym told me to fix it with resistance band shoulder dislocations. It was liked a miracle and helped right away, and luckily it healed within a week by doing those every day.

So yeah, try and find out what it is and make sure you are conscious of your form, these things can escalate and ruin your training if you aren't careful.

(sorry for the wall of text, hopefully it helps someone)

[Metalmank]

FWIW, I did some research on knee sleeves, and apparently they do nothing to prevent injuries and are unable to warm up the fluid in your knees. The only benefit I found was that they may make you more aware of what your knees are doing, so might help you with your technique since you can feel them more with something wrapped around them.

Like Davis said, you should try work out what is causing it. The main culprits I know of are not warming up enough, and not having a correct knee path when squatting, so you are allowing them to cave or they are travelling too far forward over your feet.

Don't ignore it or you could end up with tendonitis or some other chronic injury. Post a form vid here, or see a sports physio who can help you identify the cause.

I used to get some pain in my left arm when benching, and I thought "whatever, I'm indestructable" but then the pain became constant even in every day life, so even putting on a shirt or coat made me wince with pain. I went to a physio and he diagnosed bicep tendonitis. I was unable to bench or back squat for over a month while I waited for it to heal. Actually the stretch the physio advised to help it was BS and just kept aggrevating it. What saved me was a random guy in gym told me to fix it with resistance band shoulder dislocations. It was liked a miracle and helped right away, and luckily it healed within a week by doing those every day.

So yeah, try and find out what it is and make sure you are conscious of your form, these things can escalate and ruin your training if you aren't careful.

(sorry for the wall of text, hopefully it helps someone)

I posted a squat video on page 313.

[WrathfulOne]

I posted a squat video on page 313.

You should increase your posts per page setting, I'm only on page 190 here, so I can't find it.

[Metalmank]

Squat form check

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbjDKhOhUzA

This is at 255LB



Also like to note that since my last workout (On thursday) Ive gotten some knee ache, left elbow ache and some weird sharp soreish and non soreish pain in my waist area when say i turn my torso to the left or right with my legs straight and feet forward.. Its a weird feeling. Unsure what it is.

Here it is again.

[WrathfulOne]

Here it is again.

OK I watched it like 6 times and I can't see much wrong with it from that angle. Only a slight wobble forward at the bottom of the 4th rep and then a little wobble on the 5th rep. Potentially they are pitching forward a bit there and stressing the knees? Also, are you keeping your feet pointed slightly out and not straight forward? (when you descend your knees should travel in a nice line in alignment with your feet, so they need to be pointed outwards to facilitate this). Check out Alan Thrall's squat vids on Youtube, he definitely talks about knee pain in one of them, but I didn't pay too much attention since I don't get knee pain.

The elbow ache could be due to bad bar position on your back, so you are excessively pushing forward on the bar to keep it in place. I used to get shoulder pain from using the Rippetoe method of forcing the elbows up, but since I switched to elbows down to the ground and hands as close to my shoulders as possible, I get no pain. Also work on shoulder mobility before you squat, I find that helps. I do some shoulder dislocations or overhead band pullapart bodyweight squats before squatting and I feel like this helps me get my arms in a nice position.

I should mention that even though I've been squatting every week for nearly 2 years, I still squat less than you, so I'm hardly an authority on it . I just read and watch a lot about technique so I can improve my lifts safely.

[BLicK1252]

First day back in 2 and a half weeks. The good news is that my shoulder felt good and held up fine. The bad news is the weights felt heavy as F. Still glad to be back in the saddle though.

[MyEgoProblem]

First day back in 2 and a half weeks. The good news is that my shoulder felt good and held up fine. The bad news is the weights felt heavy as F. Still glad to be back in the saddle though.

Good shoulder is good!

Normally heavy af means super grinders? Personally i would drop the weights a little if that's the case and your form is suffering.

Clean reps on rehab from my experience!

Shoulders are fragile things man. Imo, better safe than sorry :-) but if form is good.. Yano.

Best judgment come from you ofc.

[MyEgoProblem]

Here it is again.

Looks fine technically. From that angle.

Stance width.. Maybe you need to try a little closer or maybe wider to shift some load to the hips? Glutes firing properly?

Weight load over mid foot...Not leaning taking barpath over toes? I used to do that and it really messed with my artheritis...

Knee cave...assume Under control and tracking in line /outside toes?

other leg lifts.. Form for press, exts, hack?

Running? Destroys my knees! With the repeated impacts. Fat guy issues lol.

Maybe take a day to test some variations in your form and assess none squat variables? Could very easily be Something else Causing your issue, but your feeling it in squat as its the heavy hitting lift.

Could always be structural. As you suggested.

[BLicK1252]

Good shoulder is good!

Normally heavy af means super grinders? Personally i would drop the weights a little if that's the case and your form is suffering.

Clean reps on rehab from my experience!

Shoulders are fragile things man. Imo, better safe than sorry :-) but if form is good.. Yano.

Best judgment come from you ofc.

Yeah, I sprained it pretty good and was a little nervous doing incline but it was totally fine.

Might need to drop weights a bit, it is amazing how much you fall off even after just 2 weeks. I knocked out my FS and incline but RDLs and even lat pulls were tough.

Also, I got to put my new lifting shoes to use so that was fun, my squats felt great in them.

[beardohio]

You should increase your posts per page setting, I'm only on page 190 here, so I can't find it.

That...or it helps to reference the Post # instead of the page it was on.

You can also click on the actual Post # and copy the link it gives you to share with others (works just as well as quoting the post).

Also, I got to put my new lifting shoes to use so that was fun, my squats felt great in them.

Nice!! You have been talking about those things for a while now...glad you got them. Does that mean it was your bday? If so, happy belated.

[Squid24]

You should increase your posts per page setting, I'm only on page 190 here, so I can't find it.

I still trying to make it show only 5 at a time...lol

[BLicK1252]

Nice!! You have been talking about those things for a while now...glad you got them. Does that mean it was your bday? If so, happy belated.

Ha, no, I got them from my g/f for xmas but they were a size too small and way too tight. So we returned them and got a good pair, and then I fell down every stair in my apartment and sprained my shoulder. So today was my first day back in what feels like forever.

Word to the wise, if you don't want to feel like you've been hit by a train, don't take 2 weeks off from the gym. Also, don't fall down the stairs.

[dgoyena216]

Good shoulder is good!

Normally heavy af means super grinders? Personally i would drop the weights a little if that's the case and your form is suffering.

Clean reps on rehab from my experience!

Shoulders are fragile things man. Imo, better safe than sorry :-) but if form is good.. Yano.

Best judgment come from you ofc.

That statement is gold.

[davisj3537]

You should increase your posts per page setting, I'm only on page 190 here, so I can't find it.

Lol. I didn't even know this was a thing and I'm a mod.

[beardohio]

Lol. I didn't even know this was a thing and I'm a mod.

Negged.

[Squid24]

Lol. I didn't even know this was a thing and I'm a mod.

When you find out how...let me know how to do it

[Squid24]

Negged.

Did he even feel it?....lol

[beardohio]

When you find out how...let me know how to do it

UserCP --> General Settings --> Number of Posts to Show Per Page

Did he even feel it?....lol

Negged.

[Metalmank]

yeah Ill have to look into it more, I've decided to take the rest of the week off for a deload and to see if this makes the knee pain go away. Its not so bad today.

The knee pain only happened the day after heavy lifting not while lifting..

And as far as positioning goes.. I do a bit of a wide stance and my toes are pointed out and not straight, I've used Thralls vids as reference.. I mite try the elbows down instead of up like Rippatoes method. Elbow pain was just for a day. Havent had it since though.

If its none of that maybe its a structural issue due to my surgery along time ago.

My body has never lifted this much weight .. Ever. I used to be that guy in the gym whose only leg workouts was running / sprints lol. Most I ever squatted / DL before this program was probably 135-155LB. So being already almost at 400LB DL and 50LBs from 300 Squat.. IS crazy for me.

I mite stop doing sprints after my workouts as well.. Could be Im killing my joints by the HIT after the lifting as well