"Fierce 5" Novice Routine

[riplemmy]

i'm 6 feet 150lbs ans i wanted to gain lean muscle mass. does this program fit me? my gym coach says i need high reps for hypertrophy but thread says there is Not such difference between 3x5 and 3x10

edit: spelling fix

is intermediate upper/lower too much for me?

[DrakHarr]

is intermediate upper/lower too much for me?

You'll progress slower on an intermediate program, not faster. That's up to you.

[Squid24]

is intermediate upper/lower too much for me?

Too much for you? No...Like I said, F5 Novice is the perfect fit for you. Why? Cause the progression is faster. To stay so called lean is more about diet.

Upper/Lower program will be slower progression which fits more for an intermediate lifter than a novice lifter, and you are NOT an intermediate lifter. So, if you think the Novice is too much for you, with the progression then by all means do the intermediate program. Both are good.

[Metalmank]

is intermediate upper/lower too much for me?

Start on this program, like stated you're not ready for a intermediate program. gaining 'lean' mass is all about diet. Its also a very very slow progression if you are strictly trying to gain 'lean' mass without gaining fat. Your best bet is to straight BULK which you will gain fat from and once you hit the size and weight you want than cut to get that 'lean' look.

I'm the same height as you and weight 210.. So you need to straight up just bulk.

This program will get you the size you want as well. I'm on a cut on this program and im getting bigger / stronger

[phemaphast]

Need some advice please..

It feels like only my legs are getting a work out with this programme, is this supposed to work your lower body more?

I haven't worked out for many years due to an illness and started this programme about 3 weeks ago. My lower body is stronger than my upper body anyway as I can't do any pull ups and I am doing negatives for now.


Any advice on this would be great.

Thank you,
Phil

[Squid24]

Need some advice please..

It feels like only my legs are getting a work out with this programme, is this supposed to work your lower body more?

I haven't worked out for many years due to an illness and started this programme about 3 weeks ago. My lower body is stronger than my upper body anyway as I can't do any pull ups and I am doing negatives for now.


Any advice on this would be great.

Thank you,
Phil

As long as you follow the program as written, it will all catch up and you will then feel it every where. No worries mate

[Metalmank]

Need some advice please..

It feels like only my legs are getting a work out with this programme, is this supposed to work your lower body more?

I haven't worked out for many years due to an illness and started this programme about 3 weeks ago. My lower body is stronger than my upper body anyway as I can't do any pull ups and I am doing negatives for now.


Any advice on this would be great.

Thank you,
Phil

Just stick to the program and all the lifts in it. To build a strong upper you need to build a strong lower. Squats, Deadlifts, RDL, F squat all build upper body as well as its a full body workout. My compound leg lifts are always the hardest.. My bench is getting hard now but thats because I've over 225LB now on bench.

Its not to bad in the early weeks of this program but you'll feel it soon enough.

[Ermacs]

What can I replace reverse flies, lat pulldown, tricep pushdown with?

I only have a squat rack with a 300lb barbell set.

Thanks!

[MyEgoProblem]

What can I replace reverse flies, lat pulldown, tricep pushdown with?

I only have a squat rack with a 300lb barbell set.

Thanks!

Reverse fly** use a small plate in each hand instead of dumbells. Seriously that easy ;-)

Lat Pulldown** pullups, chin ups, rack chin. Band assistance chins or pullups.

Tricep pushdown** Skullcrushers, rippetoe laying Tricep extention. French press.

[dgoyena216]

What can I replace reverse flies, lat pulldown, tricep pushdown with?

I only have a squat rack with a 300lb barbell set.

Thanks!

Your rack doesn't have a pull up bar?

[Ermacs]

Reverse fly** use a small plate in each hand instead of dumbells. Seriously that easy ;-)

Lat Pulldown** pullups, chin ups, rack chin. Band assistance chins or pullups.

Tricep pushdown** Skullcrushers, rippetoe laying Tricep extention. French press.

Thanks!

[Ermacs]

Your rack doesn't have a pull up bar?

It does, but my head hits my basement roof when I try it. I am very tall haha.

[MyEgoProblem]

It does, but my head hits my basement roof when I try it. I am very tall haha.

Put bar on j hooks lower, and do your chins with knees bent behind you? I do that at home on my door chin bar.. Or i would never leave the floor :-)

[alewisdvm]

Its a case of learning depths you can safely achieve for your mobility.. Take it easy!

Ive had a few occasions when I went too deep on rdl's and my lower back curved over
.. once i spent a week with no socks on ;-) cos I Couldn't bend over to touch my feet lol!

Thanks.
Yeah. I'm not sure which really exacerbated it.
I got cocky with the RDL's. I was only doing 95 pounds and it was very easy to do the 3x8. So, the following workout, I was going to up it to 115. Still fairly easy. Not smart. I decided to jump to 135. I was careful and still good technique and back was fine. But, definitely increased too fast.

But, it was really the hack squats, I think, I screwed up. Went from 140 to 160 and didn't follow rules for increasing in 10 pound intervals. More important, I know for damn sure that my lower back was lifting off that pad.

[alewisdvm]

Thanks.
Yeah. I'm not sure which really exacerbated it.
I got cocky with the RDL's. I was only doing 95 pounds and it was very easy to do the 3x8. So, the following workout, I was going to up it to 115. Still fairly easy. Not smart. I decided to jump to 135. I was careful and still good technique and back was fine. But, definitely increased too fast.

But, it was really the hack squats, I think, I screwed up. Went from 140 to 160 and didn't follow rules for increasing in 10 pound intervals. More important, I know for damn sure that my lower back was lifting off that pad.

I think I am also going to group exercises a bit different. Not do hack squats and RDL's same day.

Group the RDL's with with Leg Press.

Group the Hack Squat with Leg Curl and Glute Bridges.

That way, not doing both RDL's and the Hack squat together. I think "easier" to protect and focus on lower back because leg press is easier to ensure back stays flat.

[riplemmy]

Too much for you? No...Like I said, F5 Novice is the perfect fit for you. Why? Cause the progression is faster. To stay so called lean is more about diet.

Upper/Lower program will be slower progression which fits more for an intermediate lifter than a novice lifter, and you are NOT an intermediate lifter. So, if you think the Novice is too much for you, with the progression then by all means do the intermediate program. Both are good.

no, i said -is "intermediate upper/lower" too much for me- because i wanted to do it instead of novice
i got your point by the way

[Squid24]

no, i said -is "intermediate upper/lower" too much for me- because i wanted to do it instead of novice
i got your point by the way

Yes, I know what you said...lol. So let me make what I said easier to follow?

I said - Too much for you? No

Then I said the rest about progression and diet

[riplemmy]

Yes, I know what you said...lol. So let me make what I said easier to follow?

I said - Too much for you? No

Then I said the rest about progression and diet

i got it now

[dgoyena216]

I did chin ups for one set instead of pull ups on Friday when I started lifting again this last week, and I have never felt the soreness in my lats and arm pit like this before.

[Metalmank]

I did chin ups for one set instead of pull ups on Friday when I started lifting again this last week, and I have never felt the soreness in my lats and arm pit like this before.

Funny thing is this whole time doing this program I thought it said pull ups.. So ive been doing pull ups (Which have increased) instead of chin ups.. Going to do chin ups now

[MyEgoProblem]

Wide, close, medium...

Overhand, supinated, neutral, semi-supine, rotator bar...

Pulldown machine, assist machine, bands, bw, bw+, rack variation.

Do any you like. :-) there isn't a specification.

[dgoyena216]

Funny thing is this whole time doing this program I thought it said pull ups.. So ive been doing pull ups (Which have increased) instead of chin ups.. Going to do chin ups now

Yeah I am going to start varing it for me. If I do B twice week. I will do 3 sets of chin ups (supinated close grip) and then the next day ill do 3 overhand wide grip. And then if I do B once that week the 2nd set will be chin ups. Keep it fun. I am also stuck doing the lat pull down machine right now too per instruction of my PT. Hes letting me do 2 weeks of lifting at 50% of what my 1RM was at the time I started PT, too see how my shoulder is. If there is no pain at all, then I am good and don't need to go back for more PT.

Also this question seemed to have gotten burried in the last page. Does anyone know the answer?

Does anyone know if it would be okay to do Single leg stiff legged deadlift with a kettleball instead of leg curls if I am subbing deadlift and a hamstring movement for B? Or is that too much going into the lower back? I like the single leg deadlift as its something I did during my back PT 3 years ago.

[MyEgoProblem]

I think that would fit better with front squat as a replacement for the rdl to be honest.

But, i think you could make it work so long as your keeping the reps up higher like the curl and working for the stretch and feel and not going too heavy.

I've done rdls after conventional deads with no detriment other than my low back needing more rest. But You gotta remember low back takes a beating from squat, dead, row, press ect and seems predisposed to recover slower.

I can't say Davis would sign off on it as a sanctioned sub tho.

[alewisdvm]

I think that would fit better with front squat as a replacement for the rdl to be honest.

But, i think you could make it work so long as your keeping the reps up higher like the curl and working for the stretch and feel and not going too heavy.

I've done rdls after conventional deads with no detriment other than my low back needing more rest. But You gotta remember low back takes a beating from squat, dead, row, press ect and seems predisposed to recover slower.

I can't say Davis would sign off on it as a sanctioned sub tho.

Agreed. The problem with front squat is that my anterior deltoid is substantially atrophied due to the trauma from 5 shoulder dislocations. So, it is not exactly easy or comfortable doing front squats.

I did review combo of rdl, hack squat, lep press and leg curl with Davis, but we didn't really specify which in combination or if they could be mixed up.

I figure, if there is a concern for lower back, as long as I am mixing a predominat hamstring exercise with a quad exercise it would be okay.

Just for repeating, my goal is to mix:
1. hack squat with leg curl
and
2. rdl with leg press

[MyEgoProblem]

Agreed. The problem with front squat is that my anterior deltoid is substantially atrophied due to the trauma from 5 shoulder dislocations. So, it is not exactly easy or comfortable doing front squats.

I did review combo of rdl, hack squat, lep press and leg curl with Davis, but we didn't really specify which in combination or if they could be mixed up.

I figure, if there is a concern for lower back, as long as I am mixing a predominat hamstring exercise with a quad exercise it would be okay.

Just for repeating, my goal is to mix:
1. hack squat with leg curl
and
2. rdl with leg press

Oh sorry for the confusion man that response was aimed at dgoyena216 should have quoted.


Yeah, i remember going thru your specific issues previously and your plan looks good!
But I would leg press/hack squat BEFORE rdl.

I always feel its safer to do the squat variations before the dead variations. so if you do mess up like going too deep on the squat/press you back isn't already fatigued to hell from the deads and isn't gonna get messy.

Especially as you found to your detriment already your low back can be a pita when fatigued.

Follow the logic that? Makes sense to me anyway lol

[ItsTiME35]

are wide grip pullups supposed to be damn hard. I was using the pullup assist machine with a 20kg assist and could do 3x8 fairly easy. Once I dropped it below a 10kg assist it was so hard to squeeze out 2 reps... doing it like the pic attached.... and no sadly that aint me

[JimmyJonny]

are wide grip pullups supposed to be damn hard. I was using the pullup assist machine with a 20kg assist and could do 3x8 fairly easy. Once I dropped it below a 10kg assist it was so hard to squeeze out 2 reps... doing it like the pic attached.... and no sadly that aint me

Yea, lol, they are that hard. Thats why people do chin-ups, way easier. Don't let us catch you kipping, lol.

[ItsTiME35]

Yea, lol, they are that hard. Thats why people do chin-ups, way easier. Don't let us catch you kipping, lol.

haha.. nah chinups can do one..... im gonna focus on wide grip pullups til I have nailed them

[jcoales12]

I've been on this program for 19 weeks and have seen great strength increases. I have now stalled on incline, bench and pendlays after upping my food intake so am moving onto the upper/ lower split next week. As the gym is really busy on monday can i do - Sunday- upper, tuesday lower, wednesday- upper, friday- lower? Or should i have a 2 day rest at some point every week?

[jcoales12]

These are my numbers at week 1 and 19.
kgs (pounds)

Weight 169 pounds 181 pounds
Squat 60 (132) 105 (231)
Deadlift 60 (132) 115 (253)
Bench 50 (110) 67.5 (149)
Incline 45 (99) 60 (132)
Pendlay 45 (99) 62.5 (138).

Should i be trying to get my lifts higher before moving onto the 4 day upper/ lower split?