"Fierce 5" Novice Routine

[MadFrankie]

Hi guys,

Some good progression going on here - keep it up.

I'm after a bit of advice / reassurance / accountability really.

I'm 4 weeks in, enjoying the routine, weights increasing weekly as expected - I feel I started with the right weights.
I've been tracking my food and eating pretty well, increasing weight by about 0.5lb a week.

Now, the only thing not changing are my measurements.

It's good that things like my belly isn't increasing as I'm taking this that the weight increase is mainly muscle but without the number increasing on the tape for chest, biceps, legs etc I suppose the only thing is to carry on as I am and hope I'm on the right track?

I guess the first 6 weeks are more about getting into the routine and strength gains rather that growth?

How long did it take you all to notice changes and the tape to increase?

[ind1111]

You can get smaller plates. If you're mechanically minded, you can make them. Or you can get them online for like $15.

Can't seem to find any that ships to my country, I'll try to look around of maybe make some of my own.
However, is that my only option for progression?

[MyEgoProblem]

Can't seem to find any that ships to my country, I'll try to look around of maybe make some of my own.
However, is that my only option for progression?

Velcro ankle weights! Cheap AF ;-) got mine from a discount shop for like £2. The pair Weighed in at 650grams each(total 1.3kg). Perfect for that step between 2x1.25kg plates. Just strap them on where the plates go..

Or use the normal 2.5/5kg - 5/10lbs increases, but instead of weekly increases you could try every 2 weeks.. That would have a similar effect to micro loading.

[ItsTiME35]

No problem, you got this

nailed it

[ind1111]

Velcro ankle weights! Cheap AF ;-) got mine from a discount shop for like £2. The pair Weighed in at 650grams each(total 1.3kg). Perfect for that step between 2x1.25kg plates. Just strap them on where the plates go..

Or use the normal 2.5/5kg - 5/10lbs increases, but instead of weekly increases you could try every 2 weeks.. That would have a similar effect to micro loading.

That sounds like a wonderful idea!
Thank you for the velcro suggestion

[JimmyJonny]

I did 190 w/o straps, but had to use them for 220, 230 and 240 all 1x5

Good job Squid.

I did 260 yesterday and it went up fairly easy. I'm taking it slow with the DL's due to hip problems. I really wanna hit that 350 this year, we shall see how it goes.

[davisj3537]

A little more eloquent than I at 5.30 am. :-)

I thought your post was good I feel like some people need to hear the same answer more than once is all.

Hi guys,

Some good progression going on here - keep it up.

I'm after a bit of advice / reassurance / accountability really.

I'm 4 weeks in, enjoying the routine, weights increasing weekly as expected - I feel I started with the right weights.
I've been tracking my food and eating pretty well, increasing weight by about 0.5lb a week.

Now, the only thing not changing are my measurements.

It's good that things like my belly isn't increasing as I'm taking this that the weight increase is mainly muscle but without the number increasing on the tape for chest, biceps, legs etc I suppose the only thing is to carry on as I am and hope I'm on the right track?

I guess the first 6 weeks are more about getting into the routine and strength gains rather that growth?

How long did it take you all to notice changes and the tape to increase?

It takes a bit for that to show. It's great that you took measurements, but I'd be more looking to compare them at 3 months than 1. If people saw huge size gains in a month everyone would be huge. It just isn't that easy. It takes years.

Example, when I first started working legs I put nearly 200lbs on my squat in the first 6 months and only put 1 inch on my thighs. Muscle density has a lot to do with it. Imagine a soft muscle with plenty of fat marbled in compared to a very dense muscle with minimal fat marbling. One is going to weight a lot more and be much stronger, but they won't be vastly different sizes right off the bat.

So the muscle is growing, but you may not see it yet if that makes sense.

That sounds like a wonderful idea!
Thank you for the velcro suggestion

A little creativity goes a long way. Don't be afraid to think outside the box.

Good job Squid.

I did 260 yesterday and it went up fairly easy. I'm taking it slow with the DL's due to hip problems. I really wanna hit that 350 this year, we shall see how it goes.

You'll be there before you know it.

[Ivo130499]

i asked a question earlier in the week but no one answered me and i will ask it again but this time things got a bit more confusing . this was supposed to be my last bulking week before i start cutting . unfortunately i got sick last sunday night ( sore throat and stuffy nose ) . monday i was not feeling that down and decided to go and work out . to be honest it was not very intense . wednesday i was better , ready to go but while i was at school my lower back started hurting so i didn't go because i didn't want to get any problems ( don't usually like to skip a lot :/ ) . yesterday i was alright , just some stuffy nose , nothing serious . i don't know what happened but deadlift felt not very good , i was low on energy so i just did only deadlift , there was no point to continue , very very low energy . to sum up this week i got only 1 full workout . my idea is to just don't count this week , monday to start again with B , weights like this week . i am eating at maintenance right now . any thoughts ? thanks

[davisj3537]

i asked a question earlier in the week but no one answered me and i will ask it again but this time things got a bit more confusing . this was supposed to be my last bulking week before i start cutting . unfortunately i got sick last sunday night ( sore throat and stuffy nose ) . monday i was not feeling that down and decided to go and work out . to be honest it was not very intense . wednesday i was better , ready to go but while i was at school my lower back started hurting so i didn't go because i didn't want to get any problems ( don't usually like to skip a lot :/ ) . yesterday i was alright , just some stuffy nose , nothing serious . i don't know what happened but deadlift felt not very good , i was low on energy so i just did only deadlift , there was no point to continue , very very low energy . to sum up this week i got only 1 full workout . my idea is to just don't count this week , monday to start again with B , weights like this week . i am eating at maintenance right now . any thoughts ? thanks

Typically you'd want to eat a maintenance for 1-2 weeks before beginning cutting anyway. You just happened to get sick and have a rough week. Don't let it bother you. Start your cut next week and keep weights the same.

[Ivo130499]

Typically you'd want to eat a maintenance for 1-2 weeks before beginning cutting anyway. You just happened to get sick and have a rough week. Don't let it bother you. Start your cut next week and keep weights the same.

first thanks for your responce , i get your idea . for the moment at maintenance i eat ~2200-2500~ calories and 100-120 gr protein (didn't have much appetite ) , for bulking above 2700 calories and ~180 gr protein~ and for the cut i think ~2000-2200 calories~ with 180+ gr protein but is it necessary to start cutting next week ? i mean probably i am around 78 kg at the moment and my final goal is 80 kg . i know that i will waste my time a bit but still . monday starting with B same weights bulking , next week A bulking again , after 2 weeks B maintence and then start to cut ? sorry if it is kinda confusing

[GreatNes]

Velcro ankle weights are a good cheap option for micro plate replacements.




Food=growth. It takes a long time..
What is your max? (1rm or 5rm ect)

You have been 'benching the same' with your zero results... Change it then. That's an easy start
it seem You have already made your mind up it doesn't work for you. Going too wide is often the reason ppl loose tension.

Fix form
Eat food
Progress in weight
Get bigger

You won't get bigger without pushing a lot more weight than in the video. Come back when you are legit repping 2plates+ a side with no growth. And im not trying to be a prick but your chest will grow in relative proportion to the rest of you.. You need to put weight On.

i can do what i did in the video 8 reps . i think the most i've ever did was 100lbs for 2 reps .

[GreatNes]

Weeks 1 and 2 only.

Would rep if I wasn't on spread. lol

I never did grip work and got up to mid 400 deadlifts and never had an issue with mixed grip. I can go to mid 600s now with no issues and only did a few months of grip work.

I should say I don't advise grip work for beginner lifters. You're already getting it...

intelligent approach

It takes a long time. You don't grow a chest overnight or even in a few months. Aside from that your form is likely poor.


Watched you video. Your form isn't great, but it isn't awful either. Grip is too wide and you're not using full ROM. You're also very loose and laying flat back. That's not the issue with chest growth entirely. The biggest problem is you're skinny. Gain 30 lbs. Measure your chest before and after. Then tell me it didn't grow. I never feel my chest doing any work and I tied a national bench record at my last contest. Feeling it doesn't mean anything. Growth is from eating and muscle stimulation. You are not unique in that your chest won't grow from bench...it's just not true.

When you bench 225 your chest will look decent. When you bench 315 it will look great. You're not going to have a great looking chest benching 135 or less. That's the reality. So how do you add weight to your lifts? Gaining bodyweight. How do you add size to your chest? Gaining bodyweight.

well i put me middle finger on the rings of the bar . first i was told to go wider but i found that simulating more around the shoulder area ,then i was told if i go closer ( pinky inside rings ) then i am now it would work my triceps so idk . i drop the bar to about 1 inch over my chest then i push it up till my elbows are locked sooo idk , idk if i should arch back or keep it flat , i heard about retracting your scapula but every time i lay on the bench i cant hold it . i mean i have size on my chest it just isn't muscle ( it's not hard so prob fat ) . weight must be the problem then i know when i do 25 cable chest fly's and hold for 5 seconds on every 5 rep my chest is exhausted to the point where i cant do 5 push up's and thats at 7 lbs .


( yes thats alot of i dont knows )

[davisj3537]

first thanks for your responce , i get your idea . for the moment at maintenance i eat ~2200-2500~ calories and 100-120 gr protein (didn't have much appetite ) , for bulking above 2700 calories and ~180 gr protein~ and for the cut i think ~2000-2200 calories~ with 180+ gr protein but is it necessary to start cutting next week ? i mean probably i am around 78 kg at the moment and my final goal is 80 kg . i know that i will waste my time a bit but still . monday starting with B same weights bulking , next week A bulking again , after 2 weeks B maintence and then start to cut ? sorry if it is kinda confusing

I don't understand your question. Keep bulking if you want, eat at maintenance another week before cutting or start cutting right now. Doesn't matter really.

well i put me middle finger on the rings of the bar . first i was told to go wider but i found that simulating more around the shoulder area ,then i was told if i go closer ( pinky inside rings ) then i am now it would work my triceps so idk . i drop the bar to about 1 inch over my chest then i push it up till my elbows are locked sooo idk , idk if i should arch back or keep it flat , i heard about retracting your scapula but every time i lay on the bench i cant hold it . i mean i have size on my chest it just isn't muscle ( it's not hard so prob fat ) . weight must be the problem then i know when i do 25 cable chest fly's and hold for 5 seconds on every 5 rep my chest is exhausted to the point where i cant do 5 push up's and thats at 7 lbs .


( yes thats alot of i dont knows )

With your arm length you need to bring the grip in to probably pinkies and touch your chest with the bar. Pause on the chest if you like as it involves more pecs.

Again, the thing about chest growth is that it requires you to gain weight. As you gain weight, you'll start benching more and more and then before you know it you'll have a good looking chest. It doesn't happen overnight. For now, you don't need any more chest work than bench press. Again, not feeling it in the pecs means nothing.

Stick to the plan and you'll do fine.

[Ivo130499]

I don't understand your question. Keep bulking if you want, eat at maintenance another week before cutting or start cutting right now. Doesn't matter really.

you just answered my question i write messy , thanks again dude really apreciate it

[MadFrankie]

It takes a bit for that to show. It's great that you took measurements, but I'd be more looking to compare them at 3 months than 1. If people saw huge size gains in a month everyone would be huge. It just isn't that easy. It takes years.

Example, when I first started working legs I put nearly 200lbs on my squat in the first 6 months and only put 1 inch on my thighs. Muscle density has a lot to do with it. Imagine a soft muscle with plenty of fat marbled in compared to a very dense muscle with minimal fat marbling. One is going to weight a lot more and be much stronger, but they won't be vastly different sizes right off the bat.

So the muscle is growing, but you may not see it yet if that makes sense.

Thanks, I'm here for the long haul just wanted to get some idea of what to expect and when. I definitely feeling stronger and firmer and as long as the increase in weight isn't going on my belly, (first on, last off), then I'm happy. Just didn't want to be monitoring and measuring each week if nothing is likely to change and then get disheartened...

Onwards and upwards!

PS, thanks for creating the routine, I can honestly say it's the first one I've actually looked forward to do on gym day!

[GreatNes]

I don't understand your question. Keep bulking if you want, eat at maintenance another week before cutting or start cutting right now. Doesn't matter really.

With your arm length you need to bring the grip in to probably pinkies and touch your chest with the bar. Pause on the chest if you like as it involves more pecs.

Again, the thing about chest growth is that it requires you to gain weight. As you gain weight, you'll start benching more and more and then before you know it you'll have a good looking chest. It doesn't happen overnight. For now, you don't need any more chest work than bench press. Again, not feeling it in the pecs means nothing.

Stick to the plan and you'll do fine.

so let the bar sit directly on my chest for a pause , wont that relieve tension or am i misunderstanding you ? . when i get late in the set and touch my chest i tend to bounce the bar and my lower back starts to come off the bench . well i weigh 154 lbs without alot of muscle if i gain another 30lbs i'll be in the 180lbs area i might look cubby at that weight class i dont know how that will look on me sense im 19 years old and 5'8 . thanks for the help

[davisj3537]

so let the bar sit directly on my chest for a pause , wont that relieve tension or am i misunderstanding you ? . when i get late in the set and touch my chest i tend to bounce the bar and my lower back starts to come off the bench . well i weigh 154 lbs without alot of muscle if i gain another 30lbs i'll be in the 180lbs area i might look cubby at that weight class i dont know how that will look on me sense im 19 years old and 5'8 and skinny (small forearm , etc ,etc ) but none of my parents are skinny .

You don't relax when the bar comes down. It takes a long time to get it down, but when you are benching your body is so tight like a spring that you're downright very uncomfortable. Proper bench form with zero weight is painful. You never relax and your lower back shouldn't be on the bench. You don't have to have a giant arch or anything, but it should be arched.

There is a sticky in the exercise section called "the bench form thread." Go read it.



It'll take you a long time to get to 180 correctly. You'll bulk 20-25lbs and then cut down 10 or so. Then bulk another 15-20 and then cut another 10. Then you'd be in the right ball park. It'll take you 12-18 months to do correctly.

[loaris]

I have couple of questions but first of all awesome program davis ! I will start a log soon .
First- Will I increase 5 lb each hand in reverse flies ? Also I do pretty low on that move 4 kg dumbells is it normal ?
Second question is you gave overhead press for sub to incline bench . But I thought they worked whole diffrient muscles I like ohp better so I dont know what to do .

[Fishyfish85]

Just wanted to post this for anyone thinking of starting this program. I have been at it for about 3 months now. A little background on my workout history. I have played hockey (2x week) my whole life and have ‘worked out’ since I was 18. By work out I mean just go to the gym and randomly lift weights without any sort of plan. So during the last 10 years I saw little progress. I had ACL surgery in Feb 2015 and decided I wanted to get into bodybuilding during my rehab. So below are my results since I started in July 2015.

Start/Current
Squat – 135/205
Bench – 185/230
Rows – 95/155
Front Squat – 95/175
Incline – 135/185
Romanian – 95/185

My leg and back exercises still have quite a bit left before I max out I think, partly because I was starting from nothing due to the knee surgery. My press exercises are getting close to maxing out but that’s OK.

That said, I would 100% recommend this program to any starting out. The strength gains I have seen in the last 3 months have been more than the last 10 years combined. Also I am more muscular. Anyways, just want to let other newbies know how good this program is and to thank the author of this post!

P.S. Lifting 225 for 5 is the best feeling you will ever experience.

[Jasonk282]

I have couple of questions but first of all awesome program davis ! I will start a log soon .
First- Will I increase 5 lb each hand in reverse flies ? Also I do pretty low on that move 4 kg dumbells is it normal ?
Second question is you gave overhead press for sub to incline bench . But I thought they worked whole diffrient muscles I like ohp better so I dont know what to do .

1. with reverses flyes you really don;t have to go 'heavy' in order to make progress
2. incline bench will hit your front delts much like OHP, but will also hit your chest a bit harder than OHP since it's at an incline. SO you get the best of both IMO.

[adambannon]

Love the look of the routine. I'm currently recovering from pneumonia, but in a week or so I'd like to start this program. The only thing I'm worried about is how my running might affect my lower body lifts. Probably won't be running much at the start, but if anyone does significant cardio on this routine I'd be interested to hear how you manage it.

[jasko2]

I have a few questions about this program.

Will it make my neck, forearms, triceps and shoulders a lot bigger? These are some parts that I feel like I need to get much bigger.

The gym I work out at doesnt have any 2,5 kg weights so will it work if I uses 2 kg and 3 kg weights instead? For example, I add 2 kg the first week, second week 3 kg, then third week back to 2 kg and so on.

[ItsTiME35]

I have a few questions about this program.

Will it make my neck, forearms, triceps and shoulders a lot bigger? These are some parts that I feel like I need to get much bigger.

The gym I work out at doesnt have any 2,5 kg weights so will it work if I uses 2 kg and 3 kg weights instead? For example, I add 2 kg the first week, second week 3 kg, then third week back to 2 kg and so on.

I would imagine just get as close to it as possible bro... dont worry too much about the tiny details... long as you are making progress as best you can to stay as close to the prog as written you will be fine!!

[ItsTiME35]

"Progression(weight increases) needs to be modified for cutting males and bulking females. I would advise running the progression until you stall on bench, squat or RDL. At this point cut the progression in half, meaning increase weight half as much as the program calls for"
^^^
cannot believe I didnt see this in the FAQ's originally lol... i have been cutting and doing the program for the past 10 weeks but no legit stall yet... well apart from a sore back and a slight drop back on the squat!!

Least I know that when I do proper stall I can ramp it back and progress a little slower. Man I wish I was bulking but need to lose more first

[GreatNes]

You don't relax when the bar comes down. It takes a long time to get it down, but when you are benching your body is so tight like a spring that you're downright very uncomfortable. Proper bench form with zero weight is painful. You never relax and your lower back shouldn't be on the bench. You don't have to have a giant arch or anything, but it should be arched.

There is a sticky in the exercise section called "the bench form thread." Go read it.



It'll take you a long time to get to 180 correctly. You'll bulk 20-25lbs and then cut down 10 or so. Then bulk another 15-20 and then cut another 10. Then you'd be in the right ball park. It'll take you 12-18 months to do correctly.

so about 2 months ago i was 144lbs now im 153lbs . that means i should start cutting at 160 or no ,do you guys go in 3 month phases , how do i know when to cut ? . i dont think i have very much muscle to cut to my plan was to bulk till march then start cutting for spring but i dont know how much muscle i can build off this program in that amount of time ,thanks for the help .

[Jasonk282]

"Progression(weight increases) needs to be modified for cutting males and bulking females. I would advise running the progression until you stall on bench, squat or RDL. At this point cut the progression in half, meaning increase weight half as much as the program calls for"
^^^
cannot believe I didnt see this in the FAQ's originally lol... i have been cutting and doing the program for the past 10 weeks but no legit stall yet... well apart from a sore back and a slight drop back on the squat!!

Least I know that when I do proper stall I can ramp it back and progress a little slower. Man I wish I was bulking but need to lose more first

You're 5'9" and 174 lbs...why do you feel you need to lose more fat? anymore and you're going to look scrawny.

[Jasonk282]

so about 2 months ago i was 144lbs now im 153lbs . that means i should start cutting at 160 or no ,do you guys go in 3 month phases , how do i know when to cut ? . i dont think i have very much muscle to cut to my plan was to bulk till march then start cutting for spring but i dont know how much muscle i can build off this program in that amount of time ,thanks for the help .

Cut when you feel you;re getting too fat. However depending on your height 160 lbs is hardly time to cut...unless you;re 4'11''.

People think they have more muscle than they actually have and their first cut is a HUGE let down.

[ItsTiME35]

You're 5'9" and 174 lbs...why do you feel you need to lose more fat? anymore and you're going to look scrawny.

I would say im around 20% BF (maybe a tad more or less) so would want to lean up a bit more before starting a slow bulk... I would like to get to around 13-15% before starting a bulk... unless im wrong? your opinion would be appreciated man.. pics attached taken in last week

[giussepe20]

Just finished Week 8 and my squats are up to 155 lbs. How's my form holding up brahs? I was expecting it to be worse because the weight isn't going up as easy as it was before.

[giussepe20]

I would say im around 20% BF (maybe a tad more or less) so would want to lean up a bit more before starting a slow bulk... I would like to get to around 13-15% before starting a bulk... unless im wrong? your opinion would be appreciated man.. pics attached taken in last week

Yeah, I'd cut a little longer too. You've shed a lot of weight already so what's a little more, right? Great job BTW can't wait till I am in your position.