Have You Seen This Yet?

[discdoggie]

If not, you should. Right now. As in, this very minute. Watching while my 7 year old got off the school bus. So many questions she has, that I just cannot answer.

Why would people do such things? I don't know. I'm waiting to tell her she has (2nd? 3rd? Once or twice removed? Those relations things always confused me) relatives that perished in the camps.


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/1...o-be-released/

[steffo99]

We had to learn/read about it fairly early in school (4/5th grade perhaps) and seen a lot of programs on it. Still can't get my head around it though.
But we still keep doing similar things to each other every year. I hope we can kind of evolve into something better.

[discdoggie]

We had to learn/read about it fairly early in school (4/5th grade perhaps) and seen a lot of programs on it. Still can't get my head around it though.
But we still keep doing similar things to each other every year. I hope we can kind of evolve into something better.

This is a work of Hitchcock.

[paolo59]

Lord! There are things as adults we can't really wrap our minds around and begin to comprehend. I don't know how in the world to try and explain such things to an 8 or 9 year old. I was struck that Hitchcock was so horrified and troubled by it all he couldn't stand to bear it. I've seen some incredible documentaries on the Holocaust that just leave you wounded and confused inside. There are some things that are so viciously cruel and inhumane that little minds would struggle to deal with it I'm afraid.

[discdoggie]

The documentary was made during the liberations to show to the German people who were still maintaining they had no idea this was going on.

I was thinking though, if you did know, what could you do? Really? Who could you report it or complain to? Who would do anything? I remember reading there is documentation that Churchill was well aware of the atrocities as early as 1939. So...if the PM of one of the greatest powers in the world felt helpless to stop it at the time, what could your average hausfrau or schoolgirl do?

[Whatanejit]

Eugh.. harrowing :/

[paolo59]

The documentary was made during the liberations to show to the German people who were still maintaining they had no idea this was going on.

I was thinking though, if you did know, what could you do? Really? Who could you report it or complain to? Who would do anything? I remember reading there is documentation that Churchill was well aware of the atrocities as early as 1939. So...if the PM of one of the greatest powers in the world felt helpless to stop it at the time, what could your average hausfrau or schoolgirl do?

This^^^^^^^
A world of complete madness. God help anyone who should ever find themselves in such an evil whirlwind! The Reich spent millions portraying certain ethnic groups, entire nations of individuals, as subhuman. The Poles, the Russians.

[Karl_Hungus]

The documentary was made during the liberations to show to the German people who were still maintaining they had no idea this was going on.

I was thinking though, if you did know, what could you do? Really? Who could you report it or complain to? Who would do anything? I remember reading there is documentation that Churchill was well aware of the atrocities as early as 1939. So...if the PM of one of the greatest powers in the world felt helpless to stop it at the time, what could your average hausfrau or schoolgirl do?

Good points, but that early on Churchill was not yet running the show (Chamberlain was). Also, I am not sure how much the German people actually knew regarding the death camps given the constant propaganda and information suppression. It was clear to most Germans though that the Jews were being persecuted given the antisemitic laws/confiscation of property, etc.

Even if they did know, probably not much the average person could do. Even speaking about it could earn you a one-way ticket to a concentration camp.

[drudixon]

The Holocaust museum in DC is well worth a visit. You'll be exhausted by the time you get out. Happily, my German forebears had been in the US since 1908. I'd shudder to think my family had anything to do with that.

[discdoggie]

The Holocaust museum in DC is well worth a visit. You'll be exhausted by the time you get out. Happily, my German forebears had been in the US since 1908. I'd shudder to think my family had anything to do with that.

I was in Falls Church, VA last month on a 3 show run. During the day we went. I left all sad and weirded out. It took a few vodkas and first few songs of the first set until I was feeling like myself again.

[SleeperService]

I'd like to say that Britain's reputation is clean here, but unfortunately, since we invented the modern concentration camp during the Second Boer War at the start of the 20th century, it isn't. We effectively starved 25% of the inmates to death. Of course, we learned from that and the Fawcett Commission put in strict guidelines on the use of camps which dramatically reduced the death rate.

The point is that, yes, the German example is horrific, but pretty much every country - including the US in the Philippine-American war - has used them to starve, demoralise and kill those perceived as enemies. Most recently in Europe we had them in the Former Republic of Yugolslavia. Previous to that no-one really knows how many died in Stalinist gulags in Russia. We also had the genocide in the Ukraine during the Holodomor which didn't use camps, just plain old restriction of movement and starvation.

No-one's s**t doesn't smell here, and we need to be watchful so we don't let any more mad b*st*rds send more innocents to the slaughter.

[drudixon]

I was in Falls Church, VA last month on a 3 show run. During the day we went. I left all sad and weirded out. It took a few vodkas and first few songs of the first set until I was feeling like myself again.

The shoes and interviews at the end really got to me. The science part was sick as hell. Like who wouldn't know that sewing two kids together is doomed to fail.

Interestingly, Japan did all of the same sick science experiments and killed more Chinese, but that never gets brought up.

[drudixon]

I'd like to say that Britain's reputation is clean here, but unfortunately, since we invented the modern concentration camp during the Second Boer War at the start of the 20th century, it isn't. We effectively starved 25% of the inmates to death. Of course, we learned from that and the Fawcett Commission put in strict guidelines on the use of camps which dramatically reduced the death rate.

The point is that, yes, the German example is horrific, but pretty much every country - including the US in the Philippine-American war - has used them to starve, demoralise and kill those perceived as enemies. Most recently in Europe we had them in the Former Republic of Yugolslavia. Previous to that no-one really knows how many died in Stalinist gulags in Russia. We also had the genocide in the Ukraine during the Holodomor which didn't use camps, just plain old restriction of movement and starvation.

No-one's s**t doesn't smell here, and we need to be watchful so we don't let any more mad b*st*rds send more innocents to the slaughter.

Happens every day in Africa... Today.

[discdoggie]

yup..

the land of the rising sun logo is to someone that's chinese that a swastika is to someone that's jewish...

considered VERY offensive.

Hi. I only came back because a little birdie told me you were off ban. And to see karl and drudixon. Oh, and the transformation challenge thing.


But you get what I'm saying, right? Welcome back to the flock.

[Frnkd]

Also, Cambodia after the Vietnam War and the Rwanda genocide.

[mcbourque]

The documentary was made during the liberations to show to the German people who were still maintaining they had no idea this was going on.

I was thinking though, if you did know, what could you do? Really? Who could you report it or complain to? Who would do anything? I remember reading there is documentation that Churchill was well aware of the atrocities as early as 1939. So...if the PM of one of the greatest powers in the world felt helpless to stop it at the time, what could your average hausfrau or schoolgirl do?

That's why this kind of thinking is really good to teach kids in 6-8 grades. They are at the age where they must either think for themselves or follow the crowd.
There is no answer as to what a young school girl could do but it's good for our kids to think about it and imagine how it would feel.

I'm still haunted from visiting Anne Frank's house in Amsterdam 20 years ago.

[Juggertha]

The shoes and interviews at the end really got to me. The science part was sick as hell. Like who wouldn't know that sewing two kids together is doomed to fail.

Interestingly, Japan did all of the same sick science experiments and killed more Chinese, but that never gets brought up.

It gets brought up tons… here. In Korea, and in many parts of Asia, Japan is still very much hated by many. There are very strong regional tensions simmering under the surface right now.

yup..

the land of the rising sun logo is to someone that's chinese that a swastika is to someone that's jewish...

considered VERY offensive.

Exactly. Yet wearing one of those in a mall in the West means ya love Japan/anime, the other will have you arrested (possibly).

[paolo59]

That's why this kind of thinking is really good to teach kids in 6-8 grades. They are at the age where they must either think for themselves or follow the crowd.
There is no answer as to what a young school girl could do but it's good for our kids to think about it and imagine how it would feel.

I'm still haunted from visiting Anne Frank's house in Amsterdam 20 years ago.

It is, in my mind, more appropriate in a Middle or High School setting. There are subjects that are difficult to deal with. I'm speaking of History. Youngsters in Primary School often simply don't recognize the 'gravity' of a thing. They're just not old enough yet I guess. They are as likely to crack a joke. They just don't understand. I don't think they're quite capable (wired) yet.

[mcbourque]

It is, in my mind, more appropriate in a Middle or High School setting. There are subjects that are difficult to deal with. I'm speaking of History. Youngsters in Primary School often simply don't recognize the 'gravity' of a thing. They're just not old enough yet I guess. They are as likely to crack a joke. They just don't understand. I don't think they're quite capable (wired) yet.

I agree. Like I said, 6-8th grade is a good time for this. With my own kids when they were little, it was harder because they saw stuff but I didn't have the teacher tools to know how to explain it all to them.

[V-240]

They made us watch a similar thing in the 4th or 5th grade called "Night and Fog." It looks like it can be watched from imdb.com or youtube.

It was hard to go play foursquare or tetherball at recess with that fresh in our minds!

[thomashenry]

If not, you should. Right now. As in, this very minute. Watching while my 7 year old got off the school bus. So many questions she has, that I just cannot answer.

Why would people do such things? I don't know. I'm waiting to tell her she has (2nd? 3rd? Once or twice removed? Those relations things always confused me) relatives that perished in the camps.


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/1...o-be-released/

Yes you can tell your children about the differences {I am sure you already have} of right & wrong, Good & Evil, mankind`s history is littered with evil, not that we should focus on it, but also we should not deny it nor try & explain it away, it is sickening and heartbreaking that entire nations and people have succumbed to the wiles of madmen, Stalin & Mao were exponentially worse than Hitler in there endeavors to slaughter people and there ideologies are still alive and well today and many other ideologies that wouldn`t think twice about destroying entire peoples and nations. I have been fortunate to have worked & befriended People who witnessed this type of madness up close & Personal, and I listen intently to their stories and the ones that survived all had faith in some way shape or form that good will and has always prevailed inspite of the horrors and carnage !!! there is a myriad of evil, & it is not hidden and also good throughout the World, it is constant and forever clashing, teach your Kids right from Wrong with firm foundations & Pray

[paolo59]

I agree. Like I said, 6-8th grade is a good time for this. With my own kids when they were little, it was harder because they saw stuff but I didn't have the teacher tools to know how to explain it all to them.

This is fascinating for me. For whatever reason. Ha! Your own kids...you know them better than anyone. You know what they are able to handle and what they are not. There might be a 7 year old who could reasonably deal with such a thing as the subject matter of this thread. It's heavy, and troubling. It's freakin' horrifying! In a 'school setting,' as a teacher, depending on the age, there are just some things that leave you at sixes and sevens.

Some things, for little ones...parents are the best choice for explanations. Parents are cool!

[Zenshi]

The shoes and interviews at the end really got to me. The science part was sick as hell. Like who wouldn't know that sewing two kids together is doomed to fail.

Interestingly, Japan did all of the same sick science experiments and killed more Chinese, but that never gets brought up.

Yeah, I think the countries who were the victims were never able to bring this to light globally. Japan did absolutely terrible things in the past. It is when we stop respecting others' humanity that such acts occur.

[drudixon]

Hi. I only came back because a little birdie told me you were off ban. And to see karl and drudixon. Oh, and the transformation challenge thing.


But you get what I'm saying, right? Welcome back to the flock.

You were missed girl. BTW, there's a thread in o35, pullups for girls that begs your expertise.

[SleeperService]

Happens every day in Africa... Today.

Yup. We've more or less sorted it out in Europe and NA, but there's a whole world of hurt out there.

I just didn't want people to think it was the Germans and only the Germans. That doesn't remotely excuse the actions of the Nazis though, but it was 70 years ago, and Germany is VERY watchful for signs of that madness rising again.

[paolo59]

Yup. We've more or less sorted it out in Europe and NA, but there's a whole world of hurt out there.

I just didn't want people to think it was the Germans and only the Germans. That doesn't remotely excuse the actions of the Nazis though, but it was 70 years ago, and Germany is VERY watchful for signs of that madness rising again.

History is a twisted, shocking, fascinating thing at times. No chance of singling out Germany alone. What Lenin and Stalin managed to do to their own countrymen, or Mao...tens of millions dead. All in the name of a new and 'enlightened' society.

It's the 'pot calling the kettle black!'

[Wyomann]

I went over to Germany this summer and visited a bunch of WWII landmarks and museums. I think what blew my mind the most was how fast they actually did everything: building buildings, the army, air force, etc... It was like a machine pumping out ****. It's hard for me to even fathom the U.S. building all the structures I saw in 10-15 year period today.

[paolo59]

I went over to Germany this summer and visited a bunch of WWII landmarks and museums. I think what blew my mind the most was how fast they actually did everything: building buildings, the army, air force, etc... It was like a machine pumping out ****. It's hard for me to even fathom the U.S. building all the structures I saw in 10-15 year period today.

I think one of the things that makes this period in history so horrifying, what transpired, is just how things came about and 'progressed.' German precision, efficiency...engineering. Like as you mentioned, a 'well oiled machine.' It's almost too much to take in really.

[racejunkie]

If not, you should. Right now. As in, this very minute. Watching while my 7 year old got off the school bus. So many questions she has, that I just cannot answer.

Why would people do such things? I don't know. I'm waiting to tell her she has (2nd? 3rd? Once or twice removed? Those relations things always confused me) relatives that perished in the camps.


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/1...o-be-released/

Unfortunately, humans as a society were not always "humane." I know this pales in comparison to the holocaust, but in the US, the American military sent most Japanese Americans to live in concentration camps in the US during WW2, yet you never saw that in our history books growing up. Then there were the crazy laws where it was illegal for interracial couples to marry til 1967. And GA is still a** backwards where some of there high schools have separate proms for white and black students. None of this sh*t ever made sense to me.

[discdoggie]

You were missed girl. BTW, there's a thread in o35, pullups for girls that begs your expertise.

I'm on it!



I'm aware the the Nazi CCs weren't the only time atrocities occurred. I thought this was just extra special because one of the top filmmakers of that time was involved in the project.