Inner chest

[brokedown24]

There is some workout that will kill my innerchest.. I love that feeling but some oyher workouts i feel sorenes only in the sides..

I dont know if using the pec dec machine and concentrate on doing 3/4 of the motion to target the more inner part?

[PharmaFreak1]

It just depends on the exercise you're doing and your body position/grip.

For example, bench press gives me more pain on the sides BUT cable crossovers give me DOMS more in the centre (assuming due to the ability of the hands to, "Cross over" and really squeeze)..........

[jollynz]

You can't isolate inner/outer chest. . .

[ZoranM]

You can't isolate inner/outer chest. . .

[just.push.it123]

There is some workout that will kill my innerchest.. I love that feeling but some oyher workouts i feel sorenes only in the sides..

I dont know if using the pec dec machine and concentrate on doing 3/4 of the motion to target the more inner part?

No such thing as an inner or outter chest exercise.
You can focus on your clavicular(upper) fibres more or your sternal(lower)fibers in certain exercises. The anatomy of the chest does not consist of inner and outer fibers. To get a line down the middle of your chest build the chest first do a combination if incline/decline or flat presses with some flys or crossovers and then cut down get to a lower bodyfat and you'll look alright.

[ironwill2008]

No such thing as an inner or outter chest exercise.

[MWheatley]

-The outer chest DOMs you are referring to is caused from stress on the tendon

-The fibers that meet the pec tendon are overwhelmingly populated by type 2 fibers and are the first to fire and take the workload during pressing movements

- Since the muscle fibers of the middle chest run horizontally they dont contribute significantly to shoulder flexion or extension. They simply horizontally adduct the humerus.

- This does not mean those fibers do not engage during presses but there certainly is a priority of emphasis throughout the muscle

[just.push.it123]

Lol well he needs to know that you can't work inner or outer chest specifically

[ironwill2008]

Lol well he needs to know that you can't work inner or outer chest specifically

LOL.

One word, noob; compartmentalization.

[PerezEddie]

You can't isolate inner/outer chest. . .

True, that's impossible.

Whatever exercise you perform the chest will contract as one. However, you can emphasize areas of the chest through a way of training.

Performing certain exercises such as close grip bench press, flys ect. Will rip more muscle fibers towards the inner chest which in return will cause hypertrophy in this area of the chest.

[Northlax3]

I like doing dumbbell close grip bench. Doing it on incline is even better. I feel it a lot in my upper chest and triceps. When I did them more, i felt like it brought out my chest quite nicely.

But if youre looking to work your inner chest to get separation, a low BF% is more crucial than trying to isolate that area of the muscle.

[Kraster]

True, that's impossible.

Whatever exercise you perform the chest will contract as one. However, you can emphasize areas of the chest through a way of training.

Performing certain exercises such as close grip bench press, flys ect. Will rip more muscle fibers towards the inner chest which in return will cause hypertrophy in this area of the chest.

the broest of broscience. again, no such thing as inner or outer chest since the "inner chest" is basically just tendons. there is such a thing as upper and lower chest though... kinda.

[Orlando1234977]

the broest of broscience. again, no such thing as inner or outer chest since the "inner chest" is basically just tendons.

Do you think it's possible that part of a given muscle can react differently than another part of a same muscle? If not, why? Feel free to involve the anatomy of a muscle along with their capabilities in your answer.

[ironwill2008]

Do you think it's possible that part of a given muscle can react differently than another part of a same muscle? If not, why? Feel free to involve the anatomy of a muscle along with their capabilities in your answer.

IN for the reply.

[gomez26]

The anatomy of the chest does not consist of inner and outer fibers.

they dont have to. entire fibers have been proven to contract non-uniformly i.e biased to either one end or the other. there are separate nerves that attach at inner & outer regions. your anatomy is basically incomplete.

u wont isolate, but u can certainly emphasize.

[PerezEddie]

the broest of broscience. again, no such thing as inner or outer chest since the "inner chest" is basically just tendons. there is such a thing as upper and lower chest though... kinda.

I'm not saying there is an inner or outer chest. There is only a lower and an upper, however.. You can emphasize areas of the chest through a way of training. EMPHASIZE NOT ISOLATE.

Same way with the abdominals, they contract as one as they are one muscle but it is not contracted equally when you contract it. You can place emphasis on the lower abs by performing an exercise that involves posterior pelvic tilt. Such as a reverse crunch.

AGAIN. The inner chest cannot be worked directly because when the chest contracts it contracts as one. However, the inner chest can be emphasized indirectly, you can do this by squeezing at the top of every rep on an exercise such as cable flys, focusing on the contraction of course.

[jbball92]

just close grip incline and wide grip flat/decline that should nail everything

[JOoa0ky]

Anatomically - Pectoralis Major (2) heads:
- Clavicular head - what y'all refer to as 'upper chest'
- Sternal head - the bulk of the muscle spanning across the chest attaching to your sternum; what y'all call middle and lower chest...

Function that we are arguing about = medial rotation
- Such as in cable cross over where you bring it all the way into the midline

Ok now let's move onto real-in-gym-observed facts:
- Most people bench with pinkies at least touch the rings but press till lock out and observe how far away your arm is
- Do a cable crossover and observe how far away your arms are from each other.
- Now if you do this in the air while flexing your pecs... with your arms starting out at bench lockout distance and then move it in closer to cable cross over touching, you should feel some emphasis shift a little just an inch or two inwards.

---
- Just my opinion and you can all disagree but I personally don't think wide-regular grip bench press is a FULL peak contraction for the pecs. I think it comes pretty close like 90-95%. I think flyes and crossovers let you bridge that last 5-10% because you can bring the arms in closer. I feel like many people 'subconsciously' feel this and that's why they also include some variation of flyes/cross overs/db benching, which allow your arms to come in closer at lockout.
- Also when posing and you want to show off the chest with a most muscular... you bring your hands pretty close together right? I DON"T THINK ANYONE DOES A MM WITH THEIR HANDS SPACED AS FAR APART AS A BENCH LOCKOUT. (Sorry just had to make a point there :S
- That is not to say that you don't get great chest development from benching, I think the weight that you can potentially move with it, outweighs anything you can do with your 8000x sets of crossovers.
- But you know what? Bench press is exactly what it is, a 'Compound' movement and you best not forget that... its not a chest isolation exercise so I don't expect it to give 101% pec contration/stimulation. It primarily hits the chest but also takes a ton of other muscles along for the ride.

** IMO I think its sufficient as long as you include some close grips... arms are more than close enough at that distance!

Just my opinion and yes feel free to disagree and call me crazy.

[Kraster]

Do you think it's possible that part of a given muscle can react differently than another part of a same muscle? If not, why? Feel free to involve the anatomy of a muscle along with their capabilities in your answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pectoralis_major_muscle

The pectoralis major receives dual motor innervation by the medial pectoral nerve and the lateral pectoral nerve, also known as the lateral anterior thoracic nerve.
...
The medial pectoral nerve then communicates the action potential across the neuromuscular junction by releasing acetylcholine into the neuromuscular junction, inciting a proportional muscle contraction of the STERNAL HEAD of the pectoralis major. The second source of innervation of the pectoralis major originates from the C5 and C6 nerve roots which merge to form the upper trunk, splits off into the anterior division of the upper trunk which joins with the middle trunk to form the lateral cord. The lateral pectoral nerve branches off of the lateral cord of the brachial plexus and is distributed over the deep surface of the pectoralis major. At the neuromuscular junction, the lateral pectoral nerve provides motor input to the CLAVICULAR HEAD of the pectoralis major.

tl;dr the nerve that goes to the pecs splits off into two different nerves. What this means is that although whenever you contract the pecs, you will contract both portions of the muscle, how hard EACH portion contracts can be different. Therefore, there are certain exercises/angles/movements that will involve the upper pec more than the lower one and vice verse, and thus can be more efficient for training their respective portion.
Also note that there is no such thing as an inner or outer pec if you read the article, since the most STARTS at the middle of your rib cage and wraps around horizontally, so there is no part that is "inner" or "outer", it's just one muscle. However, there ARE "upper" and "lower" parts of the muscle

Why people prefer to do cable crossover or flies to get that "peak contraction" is precisely for that: peak contraction. But it is the peak contraction of the WHOLE pec muscle that runs horizontally from the middle of the rib cage to the outer parts, it's not as if they are activating some magical mysterical inner chest fibres because it's the same damn fibre, you just might be activating the pec that tiny bit more. So I guess do your crossovers and flies but don't you for a second think that you're actually training your "inner chest" because it simply doesn't exist

[Gxp23]

The chit severely hit the fan ITT.

Cable flys for me personally, with a range of upper, middle and low contracting points.

Keep it basic.

[ambitiousrob]

Do some pushups . Do close grip pushups put your hands directly under your shoulders to target your lower chest do about 3 sets of 50

[ThickAsABrick]

they dont have to. entire fibers have been proven to contract non-uniformly i.e biased to either one end or the other. there are separate nerves that attach at inner & outer regions. your anatomy is basically incomplete.

u wont isolate, but u can certainly emphasize.

this.

the rest of you shut your incorrect holes.

[gomez26]

again, no such thing as inner or outer chest .

depends what u mean by 'thing'.

as an arbitrary label used by <insert title>? sure, u can basically invent any meaning/context to this to prove your point here. this is basically what all the argument is about.

but consider the op's question. forget cherry-picking terminology. wtf do you think he is asking? u find 'emphasizing' too far fetched as a suitable context?

tl;dr the nerve that goes to the pecs splits off into two different nerves. What this means is that although whenever you contract the pecs, you will contract both portions of the muscle, how hard EACH portion contracts can be different. Therefore, there are certain exercises/angles/movements that will involve the upper pec more than the lower one and vice verse, and thus can be more efficient for training their respective portion.

sternal head also has separate innervations.

note - 'lateral' & 'medial' which mean outer & inner

[Kraster]

sternal head also has separate innervations.

note - 'lateral' & 'medial' which mean outer & inner

intredasting.... I'm willing to consider the possibility that I'm wrong.

but still, when you compare different people you'll notice that sometimes, even though their pec muscles are big, they simply can't change their anatomy, as in where the tendons attach and how long they are. even when they get a huge bulging muscle that almost seems to be "overflowing", the way the tendons attach is still determined by genetics and no amount of crossover or flies is gonna change that.

see:

one can already see that even if Terry Crews got a bigger pec muscles, it'll never change the fact that his tendons seem to be attaching a bit farther apart. so yeah his chest would grow outward out of the ribcage and might even form a sort of "wall" if it gets big enough, but the gap in the middle will still forever remain since those are tendons, and tendons don't grow (well, not like muscle anyway)

[Livestrong7]

Thanks for the anatomical references
Very educational thread

[Xuaxace]

intredasting.... I'm willing to consider the possibility that I'm wrong.

but still, when you compare different people you'll notice that sometimes, even though their pec muscles are big, they simply can't change their anatomy, as in where the tendons attach and how long they are. even when they get a huge bulging muscle that almost seems to be "overflowing", the way the tendons attach is still determined by genetics and no amount of crossover or flies is gonna change that.


one can already see that even if Terry Crews got a bigger pec muscles, it'll never change the fact that his tendons seem to be attaching a bit farther apart. so yeah his chest would grow outward out of the ribcage and might even form a sort of "wall" if it gets big enough, but the gap in the middle will still forever remain since those are tendons, and tendons don't grow (well, not like muscle anyway)

no one is really talking about changing the shape of the muscle, that is genetic. But the theory of compartilization demostrates that muscles fibers do not run the whole length of a muscle (i think the longest single fiber is 6" in the sartorious), meaning that different muscles will have different number of compartments, so it is likely that a slight greater emphasis might be able to be done with certain exercise selection. Whether that will be a big different for a normal person, perharps not, but for a bodybuilder where even the smallest details matter, this might be an important thing to take into account.

[ZoranM]

while internet warriors fight with their anatomy charts and books, some people are improving their inner chest irl, whatdo

[gomez26]

but still, when you compare different people you'll notice that sometimes, even though their pec muscles are big, they simply can't change their anatomy, as in where the tendons attach and how long they are. even when they get a huge bulging muscle that almost seems to be "overflowing", the way the tendons attach is still determined by genetics and no amount of crossover or flies is gonna change that.

agree, but where we disagree is despite this whether its possible to influence what is happening within these boundaries. for e.g. some ppl have a larger gap b/w the pecs - they will never fill that gap in but they can still do exercises that emphasize their inner fibers, just that those fibers will be a bit further away from the centreline.

bodybuilders will do several exercises for a large muscle (like pecs) BUT if they stuck to only 1 exercise i believe their shape would be different because not all fibres would be fully stimulated. the difference wouldnt be reflected in where the muscle starts & ends - that is genetic, but the curvature between these points (insertions/origins) can still vary visibly depending on how the muscle is built. it may not be much as a measurement difference (as a % of total volume of muscle), but the overall visual effect can be noticeable. consider the conceptual example below. the 2 curves below both have the same start & finish but the curvature between the points is different.



now as i mentioned b4 context is important in such discussions. all these concepts are interesting & all but what can be drawn from this is the important question.

it all depends how much time you want to throw at it. obviously a bodybuilder will want to stimulate as many fibers as possible. lets say he gives all regions a decent stimulation - the resultant shape will still be genetic in as much as a different person will have a different result doing the same exercises. but if he didnt stimulate all fibers his shape will be slightly different. whether the resultant shape is favorable or not depends on aesthetics which is a matter of opinion. if someone wants to alter their shape slightly then they can do the exercises that emphasize certain regions first & perhaps do a few more sets of them. the effect will be minor in terms of 'numbers' but can still be visually noticeable.

for most average hobby lifters however who have limited time etc none of this may be relevant simply because it is outside the magnitude of time & energy they are willing to spend on such differences. they may be willing to only do 6-8 sets total, so they will choose the biggest 'bang for the buck' exercises regardless of minor shape variations. however there is a big difference between pointing this out & saying flat out 'such a thing does not exist'. also there are non-competitive bodybuilders out there who are nevertheless obsessed enough with the specifics of how they look to make this issue relevant to them.

these issues are clearly different from changing muscle boundaries - thats where the confusion typically comes from. i have also argued in the past (similar from your point of view) with people arguing this & confusing the two issues but i eventually wrapped my head around what this really means in the suitable context.

[NZninja101]

no one is really talking about changing the shape of the muscle, that is genetic. But the theory of compartilization demostrates that muscles fibers do not run the whole length of a muscle (i think the longest single fiber is 6" in the sartorious), meaning that different muscles will have different number of compartments, so it is likely that a slight greater emphasis might be able to be done with certain exercise selection. Whether that will be a big different for a normal person, perharps not, but for a bodybuilder where even the smallest details matter, this might be an important thing to take into account.

This. I'm not sure that you can emphasize the inner/outer chest, but I'm definitely leaning towards it being a real possibility. If true I suppose exercises where you stretch a bit at the bottom would be more outer, and exercises where you focus more on the bringing of the hands together at the top would be more inner. While I know this is incredibly insignificant it's why I'd say cable crossovers might be a superior exercise to dumbbell flys where there's not really as much tension at the top.

[avionsuelp]

That is a pretty good question because I was wondering what It may take to bring them out too, and I personally think it may be just that im not lifting heavy enough. Im switching up my routine to try a different pump.