When have you hit your "Natural Limit"

[kibslib]

What exactly is your Natural Limit? I mean i've basically been maxed out for the past year. With gains very very small. It might be because I've lifted very heavy for 2 1/2 years so maybe I hit my limit. Now obviously If increase my calories by 2000 I can can keep growing and getting bigger but then I would gain a hell of a lot of fat. So is it possible i'm at my natural limit at my current weight? If we weren't counting fat as a natural limit wouldn't that mean everybody has No limit because they can just keep eating more and more and more till they get to be 300 lbs but even if they reach 300 lbs its still possible to keep growing by eating more calories than their BMR. I'm a little confused on this topic. someone enlighten me

[EAE]

Everyone has a limit, but it's unlikely you'll reach that limit after 2 and a half years. It sounds to me like you're just at a plateau. When you reach a plateau, you need to find a way to break out of it. The more advanced you are, the more you need to learn to keep gaining. You can't just do a crappy split, with a weak diet, and little rest and think that just because you aren't gaining any more then you are at your limit.

[littlebuffman]

there is no set "natural limit" as you lift over the years your gains will just come with more hard work and less results, most people start juicing when they think they have made it that far and thats okay, but personaly when i get up there im just going to work hard and be happy with myself that i achieved so much and accept that i'd be about as big as i could get (natually).

[kibslib]

Originally posted by EAE
You can't just do a crappy split, with a weak diet, and little rest and think that just because you aren't gaining any more then you are at your limit.

Agreed. But are you referring to me? Because my diet and training is far from crappy. Not perfect but its up there.

[Superman]

Originally posted by kibslib
What exactly is your Natural Limit? I mean i've basically been maxed out for the past year. With gains very very small. It might be because I've lifted very heavy for 2 1/2 years so maybe I hit my limit. Now obviously If increase my calories by 2000 I can can keep growing and getting bigger but then I would gain a hell of a lot of fat. So is it possible i'm at my natural limit at my current weight? If we weren't counting fat as a natural limit wouldn't that mean everybody has No limit because they can just keep eating more and more and more till they get to be 300 lbs but even if they reach 300 lbs its still possible to keep growing by eating more calories than their BMR. I'm a little confused on this topic. someone enlighten me

First of all, genetic limit shouldn't even be in your vocabulary. That's just depressing to think about. Second, look at the pro bodybuilders who have been training for years and years and stilll gain muscle (ok, they are juiced and it was a bad example but still...). Genetic limit is just a word for lazy people just like over-training.
I was stuck at 205 for 8 months. I didn't gain a pound during that period and was depressed as hell. At the time, i thought I was doing everything possible to gain muscle, looking back on it, I wasn't doing nearly enough.
If you want to gain muscle, you can. But it is not at all easy, you have to put your heart and soul into it. I only bulk for about 2 weeks at a time and then maintain for a couple weeks after that because gaining muscle takes that much for me. I get a clock and make it go off ever 2-3 hours and make sure I eat plenty each time it goes off. It is really hard to do, but it puts muscle on me.
If you ever think that you have reached your genetic limit, just take a step back and look at where you can do more in your diet and nutrition, mainly nutrition, and then fill in the gaps and make no mistakes and leave nothing to chance and bust your ass.

STOP BEING LAZY

[EAE]

Originally posted by kibslib
Agreed. But are you referring to me? Because my diet and training is far from crappy. Not perfect but its up there.

I was speaking in general. Many people think they're at their genetic limit even though their diet and training program is weak. But, if you aren't gaining and haven't been gaining for the past year (is that included in the 2 1/2 years of training?) then obviously something is off.

[holyshinto63]

Superman, the reason the pros can grow to unnatural levels is because of the steroids they use...a normal person’s skin could not stretch out that much and muscles could not get that large...there are natural limits on our body but it will take many years of very hard to achieve it.

[kibslib]

Originally posted by EAE
I was speaking in general. Many people think they're at their genetic limit even though their diet and training program is weak. But, if you aren't gaining and haven't been gaining for the past year (is that included in the 2 1/2 years of training?) then obviously something is off.

I weight 158lbs. My gains are very small b/c i've been lifting very heavy for the all my time lifting. It took me about a Year to get rid of n00bie gains. Then from then on my gains exponentially decreased. but little by little I will gain muscle. But its extremely hard. I went on a bulking phase last summer where I was on cell-tech and ate about 3500 calories a day. I went from 160-175lbs in about 2 months. I defaintly made gains but I had a nice fat belly to go with it. My question is, At my current weight is it possible to be at a natural limi or very close to it? Now obviously I can get much bigger and stronger if i gained 30lbs but I don't want it to be half fat and half muscle.

[Alexxx]

Originally posted by holyshinto63
Superman, the reason the pros can grow to unnatural levels is because of the steroids they use...a normal person’s skin could not stretch out that much and muscles could not get that large...there are natural limits on our body but it will take many years of very hard to achieve it.

Uhh your skin will stretch as much as you want it to stretch bud......If it didn't, then wouldn't fatasses around the world be bursting out of their skin right now?

[EAE]

Originally posted by holyshinto63
Superman, the reason the pros can grow to unnatural levels is because of the steroids they use...a normal person’s skin could not stretch out that much and muscles could not get that large...there are natural limits on our body but it will take many years of very hard to achieve it.

Steroids make your skin stretchy? Does that mean you'd get a huge penis?

[EAE]

Originally posted by kibslib
I weight 158lbs. My gains are very small b/c i've been lifting very heavy for the all my time lifting. It took me about a Year to get rid of n00bie gains. Then from then on my gains exponentially decreased. but little by little I will gain muscle. But its extremely hard. I went on a bulking phase last summer where I was on cell-tech and ate about 3500 calories a day. I went from 160-175lbs in about 2 months. I defaintly made gains but I had a nice fat belly to go with it. My question is, At my current weight is it possible to be at a natural limi or very close to it? Now obviously I can get much bigger and stronger if i gained 30lbs but I don't want it to be half fat and half muscle.

How tall are you? What's your bf%?

[kibslib]

I'm 5'7". My stomach stores a majority of my fat/water. My body fat scale says i have 20% body fat. Every part of my body looks good except for my stomach. You can see my pictures here

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=149732

[Damien]

Originally posted by kibslib
I'm 5'7". My stomach stores a majority of my fat/water. My body fat scale says i have 20% body fat. Every part of my body looks good except for my stomach. You can see my pictures here

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=149732

YOU HAVEN'T REACHED YOUR GENETIC LIMITS!
Just loo kat yourself, genetic limits are set much higher, look at the old strongmen. They didn't have steroids and had MUCH less knowledge about nutrition and training and they're compareably big.
You just reached a plateau. Switch your training routine, maybe some westside or dualfactorht.
Take some time off, rearrange your diet, look if you get enough sleep.

You aren't 20% more like 8-12%.
You don't have a fat stomach. You don't have a 6-pack, but it isn't fat.
You said yourself, you could gain if you ate more, so why do you question if you reached your genetic potential??
Just wa´tch your diet closely, if you gain too much fat, decrease the cal's by 200.
Don't be afraid to loose your abs or you won't grow after some point.

[kibslib]

Damien I agree with all that you said but 1 thing. You saw my stomach in those pictures. I'm already skinny but have excess blubber over my stomach. If I gained more weight my stomach would be out of control because its not even under control at my current weight.

[Damien]

Originally posted by kibslib
Damien I agree with all that you said but 1 thing. You saw my stomach in those pictures. I'm already skinny but have excess blubber over my stomach. If I gained more weight my stomach would be out of control because its not even under control at my current weight.

Then cut till you see abs, then bulk clean.

[oka555]

Originally posted by kibslib
What exactly is your Natural Limit? I mean i've basically been maxed out for the past year. With gains very very small. It might be because I've lifted very heavy for 2 1/2 years so maybe I hit my limit. Now obviously If increase my calories by 2000 I can can keep growing and getting bigger but then I would gain a hell of a lot of fat. So is it possible i'm at my natural limit at my current weight? If we weren't counting fat as a natural limit wouldn't that mean everybody has No limit because they can just keep eating more and more and more till they get to be 300 lbs but even if they reach 300 lbs its still possible to keep growing by eating more calories than their BMR. I'm a little confused on this topic. someone enlighten me

You haven';t hit your limit yet.

[WonderRXR]

I doubt many people EVER reach their true genetic potential. I don't know much but it seems to me that the body is such an adaptable machine that it would take over a decade of 100% correct nutrition and lifting to reach a genetic limit.

[Liquid]

Originally posted by Damien
Then cut till you see abs, then bulk clean.

bump!

[D&G]

When you can bench 300, squat 400 and deadlift 500 then you can tell us you might be closing in on your natural limit.

[Superman]

Originally posted by holyshinto63
Superman, the reason the pros can grow to unnatural levels is because of the steroids they use.

Is there an echo in here?

I stated that in my post, which you should have seen if you read it. The point was, that even pro athletes with years of training under there belts can still make gains. As we all know, the more advanced you are the harder it is to make gains.

[EAE]

Originally posted by kibslib
I'm 5'7". My stomach stores a majority of my fat/water. My body fat scale says i have 20% body fat. Every part of my body looks good except for my stomach. You can see my pictures here

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=149732

You are no where near your genetic limit.

[Biceps&Triceps]

Originally posted by kibslib
What exactly is your Natural Limit? I mean i've basically been maxed out for the past year. With gains very very small. It might be because I've lifted very heavy for 2 1/2 years so maybe I hit my limit. Now obviously If increase my calories by 2000 I can can keep growing and getting bigger but then I would gain a hell of a lot of fat. So is it possible i'm at my natural limit at my current weight? If we weren't counting fat as a natural limit wouldn't that mean everybody has No limit because they can just keep eating more and more and more till they get to be 300 lbs but even if they reach 300 lbs its still possible to keep growing by eating more calories than their BMR. I'm a little confused on this topic. someone enlighten me

i saw your pics your not at your genetic limit. Your just at a plateau and your not doing anything to progress. What training principles have you applied to your workouts? You could superset your workouts, Drop sets, Trisets, Partial reps, Forced negatives, staggered sets, 21's, forced reps etc etc

[kibslib]

Originally posted by Biceps&Triceps
i saw your pics your not at your genetic limit. Your just at a plateau and your not doing anything to progress. What training principles have you applied to your workouts? You could superset your workouts, Drop sets, Trisets, Partial reps, Forced negatives, staggered sets, 21's, forced reps etc etc

wouldn't supersets, drop sets, trisets just cut me up? I just lift really heavy with good form and been stuck for a long time now. I switch up excersises order and exercsises to vary my routine. If i apply those principles wouldn't I get weaker but more toned? If i'm already giving a certain force to my muscles 4-6 times and don't use that weight anymore by using different training principles with less weight, wouldn't the next time I go back to the old weight 2 months later be very difficult to do 1 rep?

[EAE]

No exercise will get you toned. Only cardio and diet will do that.

[LavaLamp]

Also, you say you're lifting really heavy.....thats a relative term. You should be doing reps around the 6-10 range, preferably 8, if you want to see the biggest size gains. Your strength gains will be better if you continue what you are doing, but you may not see the size you want.

[kibslib]

Originally posted by LavaLamp
Also, you say you're lifting really heavy.....thats a relative term. You should be doing reps around the 6-10 range, preferably 8, if you want to see the biggest size gains. Your strength gains will be better if you continue what you are doing, but you may not see the size you want.

I don't understand that. So your saying for my arm to get bigger I would have to lift less weight? So if i have biggger arms I will lift less and If i have smaller arms i will lift more?

[Gordon_18]

You should look at it this way, when you say you've hit a "Peak" it just means ur not working hard enough

[HyperionGauss]

Have you tried cycling your workout excercises? That's proven to help prevent/break plateaus.

[Biceps&Triceps]

Originally posted by kibslib
wouldn't supersets, drop sets, trisets just cut me up? I just lift really heavy with good form and been stuck for a long time now. I switch up excersises order and exercsises to vary my routine. If i apply those principles wouldn't I get weaker but more toned? If i'm already giving a certain force to my muscles 4-6 times and don't use that weight anymore by using different training principles with less weight, wouldn't the next time I go back to the old weight 2 months later be very difficult to do 1 rep?

Supersets and stuff will shock your muscles into growth. The only thing that will cut you up is your diet. You sound like your becoming an ego lifter. Saying I wont be able to lift as heavy. I gonna let you in on a secret "WEIGHT DOESNT MATTER!!!" Applying training principles will only spur your muscles into growth.

[kibslib]

Originally posted by Biceps&Triceps
Supersets and stuff will shock your muscles into growth. The only thing that will cut you up is your diet. You sound like your becoming an ego lifter. Saying I wont be able to lift as heavy. I gonna let you in on a secret "WEIGHT DOESNT MATTER!!!" Applying training principles will only spur your muscles into growth.

I kind of am an ego lifter. I like being able to lift heavier than a lot of people at my school gym or regular gym with good form. I worked hard to get here. I always see people come in b4 me and leave b4 me and they call that a work out. Who can get a good work out in 30 minutes. Is it worth sacraficing my stength gains for size? maybe it is but i just don't realize it yet. someday i will.