Can't satisfy hunger

[dmgkm]

I've searched for threads on this and have pulled up a lot, but my situation's a little different. Most people complaining of hunger break up their meals into 6 small meals a day and don't include any veggies or fruits or anything that would fulfill their dietary needs. I'm almost the complete opposite. I follow intermittent fasting (fast 16h/eat 8h) and have done so for a year. I have been very pleased with my results. I have lost 40 205-165) pounds doing so and reached 6-7 % bf a little over a month ago. I lost this weight by being in caloric deficit of 300-500 calories each day and of eating a strictly clean diet. in my diet I got my protein from mainly chicken, egg white, cottage cheese, non-fat greek yogurt and protein shakes (whey/casein). My carbs came from fruit, veggies, and cereals (steel cut oats/oatmeal/ low-fat granola/fiber one). My fats came from olive oil, avacados, and nuts (walnuts, pecans, cashews).

After reaching my weight loss goal I've started bulking and have been following the same diet, but just increasing my calories by eating the same food, putting me in a surplus of 300-500 calories. While I was always constantly hungry while cutting, even in my 8 hour window, I am now even hungrier than before. I only really eat 2 really big meals a day and a small pre workout and they never seem to make me feel full or even make me seem somewhat satisfied. I'll eat ridiculously large salads with chicken some nuts and dressing (stuffed into a 120 oz container) for lunch and feel like I just ate a single granola bar. My largest meal and only 2nd meal comes as my post workout. that typical meal is something like; 1/2 cup of plain non-fat greek yogurt mixed with 2 scoops of whey then topped with fruit (banana, strawberries, blueberries, pineapple, etc) I'll also have a lot of oatmeal, about 3-4 cups worth. After this I'll eat a chicken (8-12 oz chicken breast) dinner with onions, and a large side of Kale, cabbage, and broccoli. Since im still hungry, I start eating some cereal (fiber one mixed with granola). I'll have a bowl, then another, then another... it could take 5-7 bowls of cereal (half of both boxes until i feel like I've actually eaten something, but I try to stop after 2-3 bowls because I would put myself well over a 1000 calories over maintenance in calories for the day. This last meal can range from 1.5-2.5K calories (cereal can add that extra 1000).

On my off days, I aim for fewer calories and substitute carbs for fats and its just terrible having only a handful of nuts and getting 400 calories.

I aim for 3000-3200 cals on my training days and around 2400 on my off days, but i feel like it would take 5,000 cals a day eating good foods to even feel full. in these 5 weeks of bulking i already put on 10 pounds. some days i splurged with the cereal, but the point is I am always hungry. What can I do? and don't tell me to eat breakfast, I've tried that, it doesn't make me any more satisfied and is just going to either add more calories to my diet or cause me to eat less for my other meals.

[Gxp23]

Why do you eat less on days off when your body is recovering?

[DavidUnderhand]

1) Drink a lot of water. I know it sounds stupid like something your mom would tell you to do, trust me. Although I don't ever get hungry really, I know water makes me feel more full than I would like, so I'm sure it will fix the problem for you. Next time you're hungry drink a litre or so of water and wait a few minutes. Still hungry? drink more.

2) Also How long have you been doing IF? assuming its more than a few months you should be fairly used to fasting hunger shouldn't be an issue. Just my opinion though.

3) I just finished a bulk, gained about 9 pounds in 10 weeks. Although I did cycle calories (+/- 3500 training, 2500 off), I decided not to carb cycle, because honestly I just came to university and unfortunately thats not an option with the meal plan I'm stuck with. It made almost no difference. When I was doing my first 'recomp' lean gains style, I would eat about a pound of chicken breast, a whole box of pasta (i think 375g dry), some frozen yogurt and apples or other sugary ****, and then drink a litre or two of water. The last thing I wanted to do until about 20 hours later was eat again.

In Conclusion, drink more water and see what happens.

[Gxp23]

1) Drink a lot of water. I know it sounds stupid like something your mom would tell you to do, trust me. Although I don't ever get hungry really, I know water makes me feel more full than I would like, so I'm sure it will fix the problem for you. Next time you're hungry drink a litre or so of water and wait a few minutes. Still hungry? drink more.

2) Also How long have you been doing IF? assuming its more than a few months you should be fairly used to fasting hunger shouldn't be an issue. Just my opinion though.

3) I just finished a bulk, gained about 9 pounds in 10 weeks. Although I did cycle calories (+/- 3500 training, 2500 off), I decided not to carb cycle, because honestly I just came to university and unfortunately thats not an option with the meal plan I'm stuck with. It made almost no difference.

In Conclusion, drink more water and see what happens.

While this is good info, I would not go ahead and just drink a liter every time I get hungry, a glass or so should suffice.

[DavidUnderhand]

While this is good info, I would not go ahead and just drink a liter every time I get hungry, a glass or so should suffice.

yea perhaps I went a a little hyperbolic there, I still stand by increasing your water as the way to go though.

[Gxp23]

yea perhaps I went a a little hyperbolic there, I still stand by increasing your water as the way to go though.

Yes ofc, I am still wondering why Op drops calories on off days though, waiting to see.

[dmgkm]

I do drink tons of water. My piss is always clear. I piss about twice as much as the average person. if i drink more water i'll be pissing every 30 mins. I might as well just hang in the stall all day if i drink more water.

I'm used to hunger. I've been IFing for a year. I can deal with it, but what im saying is even during my 8 hour window I am still hungry and there for hungry 24/7, which ain't fun. I've dealt with it during my cut, because i supposed you're going to be hungry when cutting, but when getting to add an extra meals worth of calories to my diet, it doesn't make a difference.

I cycle calories on and off because I burn more calories on days i work out. I also base most of my calories around my workouts to help fuel my muscles beforehand and help them recover afterwards. Another way of looking at it is if i ate the same amount of calories on my workout days as my off days, i'd have a lot of calories not being burned during my days outside the gym.

[Gxp23]

I do drink tons of water. My piss is always clear. I piss about twice as much as the average person. if i drink more water i'll be pissing every 30 mins. I might as well just hang in the stall all day if i drink more water.

I'm used to hunger. I've been IFing for a year. I can deal with it, but what im saying is even during my 8 hour window I am still hungry and there for hungry 24/7, which ain't fun. I've dealt with it during my cut, because i supposed you're going to be hungry when cutting, but when getting to add an extra meals worth of calories to my diet, it doesn't make a difference.

I cycle calories on and off because I burn more calories on days i work out. I also base most of my calories around my workouts to help fuel my muscles beforehand and help them recover afterwards. Another way of looking at it is if i ate the same amount of calories on my workout days as my off days, i'd have a lot of calories not being burned during my days outside the gym.

This is not a good way to go about it, you want to be eating the same everyday, the calories you burn via training should already be factored into what you consume, not factored into on/off days, your body will be craving those calories on these rest days so it can help with the rest and repair.

[DavidUnderhand]

While this sounds hypocritical because I also cycle calories (generally speaking), there is no need to do it. Think of it as a week long cycle, not 24 hours, but even then your body doesn't work with specific times, just general energy balance over time. I simply cycle calories because it's a habit, for the majority of people (myself included) there is no specific benefit.

If you feel hungry no matter what you eat, why eat too much then? You'll just be hungry and fatter than you want instead of hungry. Clearly something is wrong. Keep as many variables as you can constant and switch certain ones individually to see what improves your situation. I hate when people say these sorts of things to me as I'm pretty sure its complete nonsense, but maybe you aren't getting enough of a certain micronutrient, vitamin, etc. Honestly, that's probably not the case, but if you've tried everything out, a more diverse diet could help.

[dmgkm]

This is not a good way to go about it, you want to be eating the same everyday, the calories you burn via training should already be factored into what you consume, not factored into on/off days, your body will be craving those calories on these rest days so it can help with the rest and repair.

I already put on 10 pounds in 5 weeks; probably half of which is probably just water because i was probably on the low end of glycogen storage from a full year of cutting and fasting. adding more cals on my off day will just make me fat, besides 2400 cals on a day where u just sit around isn't like it isn't a sufficient amount of cals.

[MetilHed]

I already put on 10 pounds in 5 weeks; probably half of which is probably just water because i was probably on the low end of glycogen storage from a full year of cutting and fasting. adding more cals on my off day will just make me fat, besides 2400 cals on a day where u just sit around isn't like it isn't a sufficient amount of cals.

He's not saying you have to up your non-workout days to the current level of your workout days, he's saying balance them out so you're eating the same calories everyday. TDEE should already include workout activity. Long term balance is what matters.

You do know you heal and rebuild while resting, right ?

[MuscleMission9]

Why do you eat less on days off when your body is recovering?

op is aiming for a 300-500 calorie surplus a day. On rest days, in order to maintain this surplus, he will need to decrease calories which would normally be burned by training and cardio

[MuscleMission9]

He's not saying you have to up your non-workout days to the current level of your workout days, he's saying balance them out so you're eating the same calories everyday. TDEE should already include workout activity. Long term balance is what matters.

You do know you heal and rebuild while resting, right ?

this is one way to reach your weekly calorie allotment however it is no more beneficial than ops method

[WonderPug]

op is aiming for a 300-500 calorie surplus a day. On rest days, in order to maintain this surplus, he will need to decrease calories which would normally be burned by training and cardio

This is, of course, not correct.

[Gxp23]

op is aiming for a 300-500 calorie surplus a day. On rest days, in order to maintain this surplus, he will need to decrease calories which would normally be burned by training and cardio

Indeed he is, but like already mentioned his surplus should already be factored into his weekly activity levels hence the reason for eating the same everyday.

[lilcheese]

This is, of course, not correct.

Please elaborate...I get the method of balancing it over the week so its the same but what is wrong with the ops method? If he chooses not to calculate his workout in his tree and add it in on workout days how is this wrong or ineffective? Especially if he is trying to lean bulk...

[theerun]

My fats came from olive oil, avacados, and nuts (walnuts, pecans, cashews).

How much fat (in grams) are you actually eating?

[ironwill2008]

Please elaborate...I get the method of balancing it over the week so its the same but what is wrong with the ops method? If he chooses not to calculate his workout in his tree and add it in on workout days how is this wrong or ineffective? Especially if he is trying to lean bulk...

A couple of reasons why this is whack; one, it's unnecessarily overcomplicated, juggling calories from one day to the next, and adds nothing but more mealtime hassle. For another, there's no way of knowing how many calories you "burn" during a bout of exercise, so you'd only be taking a wild guess as to how many calories to "leave out."


Hardly a reliable method to rely on when a mistake of only a couple hundred calories can wipe out an entire day's calorie planning.


Eat the same calories/macros every day, and keep things as simple, repeatable, and effective as possible.

[xFormerFatso]

I was going to make a thread, but before I hit the New Thread button, I noticed the title of this thread and wow, it's almost exactly the problem I'm dealing with right now.

I'm ridiculously hungry!

OP, I just put myself to sleep when things get too ugly..

[determined4000]

I was going to make a thread, but before I hit the New Thread button, I noticed the title of this thread and wow, it's almost exactly the problem I'm dealing with right now.

I'm ridiculously hungry!

OP, I just put myself to sleep when things get too ugly..

maybe you should be eating given your weight

[funkypigeon]

As said above there is really no need to cycle calories and macros on training and rest days, one reason is because you will most likely still be absorbing the calories from the previous day as it can take longer than 24hours to digest and absorb macro nutrients, especially if you are eating high fat and/or fiber rich foods.
One thing i have found helps with hunger is baked potatoes, sweet or white are both great (personally i prefer sweet). In the past i have eaten over 1Kg of them in one stiing, and its only ~1000kcals so you would still have plenty left to hit protein target.

[lilcheese]

A couple of reasons why this is whack; one, it's unnecessarily overcomplicated, juggling calories from one day to the next, and adds nothing but more mealtime hassle. For another, there's no way of knowing how many calories you "burn" during a bout of exercise, so you'd only be taking a wild guess as to how many calories to "leave out."


Hardly a reliable method to rely on when a mistake of only a couple hundred calories can wipe out an entire day's calorie planning.


Eat the same calories/macros every day, and keep things as simple, repeatable, and effective as possible.

I see what you are saying, and overall agree. Still one question though...Since you are already guessing day by day (IE paying attention to the overall week) wouldn't it be a more educated guess to try and use a calculator to add calories for "time in the gym"? Sometimes a workout may only be 45 minutes. Yet on another day it might be 90 minutes. This creates a huge calorie difference day by day.

[xFormerFatso]

maybe you should be eating given your weight

I'm eating more than ever before, at about 3000 calories per day. I believe any extra calories would lead to unnecessary fat gains since those are somewhere +500 above my TDEE.

[ironwill2008]

...Since you are already guessing day by day........

After figuring your baseline calorie/macros ( using an overall 'activity factor'), and using a food scale to weigh/measure/track all your portions, after 3-4 weeks of consistency, all guesswork should by then have been eliminated, and you now have solid numbers from which to base adjustments.

Sometimes a workout may only be 45 minutes. Yet on another day it might be 90 minutes. This creates a huge calorie difference day by day.

Calorie "burn" from such activities is usually greatly overestimated; it's best to simply use the method that always proves to be effective--- posted above.

[tbrady1pttools]

Here is the order of operations i look at when people say their hungry
1. Are you eating enough fat? 35% of macros
2. Are you eating enough protein?
3. Are you eating enough non-starchy veges
4. Are you sleeping 7-9 hrs of good sleep
5. Drinking enough water?

Follow those and should solve it.

[wheels30]

Make fluff bowls. That will def fill you up.

[Broscientist88]

Make fluff bowls. That will def fill you up.

True dat

[lilcheese]

After figuring your baseline calorie/macros ( using an overall 'activity factor'), and using a food scale to weigh/measure/track all your portions, after 3-4 weeks of consistency, all guesswork should by then have been eliminated, and you now have solid numbers from which to base adjustments.


I Calorie "burn" from such activities is usually greatly overestimated; it's best to simply use the method that always proves to be effective--- posted above.

don't do it this way... but maybe I should be..your right in that it seems much less complicated and I understand what you are saying. My only concern at this point is that I am trying to keep a small surplus right now (bulking at around 250). It seems like I would have weeks where I gained nothing but then weeks where I gain more than half a pound a week. Wouldn't this almost create a bulk / cut cycle at the same tome which we all know is just spinning your wheels?

[dmgkm]

A couple of reasons why this is whack; one, it's unnecessarily overcomplicated, juggling calories from one day to the next, and adds nothing but more mealtime hassle. For another, there's no way of knowing how many calories you "burn" during a bout of exercise, so you'd only be taking a wild guess as to how many calories to "leave out."


Hardly a reliable method to rely on when a mistake of only a couple hundred calories can wipe out an entire day's calorie planning.


Eat the same calories/macros every day, and keep things as simple, repeatable, and effective as possible.

so missing a few hundred calories in a day can hurt your gains, but at the same time only the weeks calories matters. Kind of a contradicting statement.

I cycle calories because that's what I have learned to do by following the leangains intermittent fasting method. It just seems to make more sense to me (eat more calories on days you burn more calories) and I've had good progress doing so.

I also cycle my carbs/fats because thats part of leangains as well. From what I've come to understand is that carbs are really only needed for exercise purposes. On days I dont work out I eat high fats (100g) and low carbs (<100g), then on my training days I keep my carbs low (=40-50) and work my carbs (300-350) around my protein (200-250g). fats are consumed in my meal many hours before training and also as my last few calories of the day.

BTW thanks for all the replies! glad to see lots of input and others in the same situation as well. I haven't tried the whips, but I'll work it into my recipe and see if that gives me a fix.

[sonnydfrizzy]

Eat more fats on training days man. I would be hungry too!